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Experience with Velocity Futures?
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Experience with Velocity Futures?

  #251 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
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I was with Velocity for over a year and never had an issue with them. But what became concerning to me was the what I found about an executive having felony charges for theft and embezzlement. Case Summary

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  #252 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
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TheDude View Post
deep discount trading. Probably open to lower rates if you trade good size.
Advantage futures. you have to contact them for a quote, but they beat velocity when I called them easily.

Maybe if you are using XTrader, I don't know their pricing model. But for the two others I have used, quoting ES:

DDT Ninja: $3.32 + $0.30 (TT) + $0.20 (static DOM) => $3.82 RT all in
Velocity Ninja: $3.82 all in
Advantage: I will check, but I just called out of curiosity and a guy who sounded like he was asleep mumbled something about labor day and wasn't very helpful, said to call when sales people were there or send an email, which I'll do for kicks.

DDT Sierra: $3.32 + $0.30 => $3.62 RT all in
Velocity Sierra: $3.62 RT all in

So far, DDT and Velocity are dead even for the two products I like, Ninja and Sierra. Maybe for other products they are drastically different but so far I see no real evidence of much lower prices. This is for first contract traded of course, and they will probably differ when real volume is traded, but I'm talking about the initial cost.

The CTS T4 platform DOM is pretty good, but the program as a whole looks like it was written with 1995 style widgets, and is quite slow. Their charts don't even allow full RGB color selection for backgrounds, and the DOM is nice but at the end of the day, nothing special. I love their server-side OCO features, but at $1 extra RT, unless one really needs the spreading tools you mentioned earlier, CTS is quite overpriced. This caps at $500 however, so if someone is doing serious size and needs good data, then a cost analysis might reveal the viability of this as a good option.

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  #253 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle Wa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Market Delta, Sierra, Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Howard Lender /TT, DTN
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josh View Post
Maybe if you are using XTrader, I don't know their pricing model. But for the two others I have used, quoting ES:

DDT Ninja: $3.32 + $0.30 (TT) + $0.20 (static DOM) => $3.82 RT all in
Velocity Ninja: $3.82 all in
Advantage: I will check, but I just called out of curiosity and a guy who sounded like he was asleep mumbled something about labor day and wasn't very helpful, said to call when sales people were there or send an email, which I'll do for kicks.

DDT Sierra: $3.32 + $0.30 => $3.62 RT all in
Velocity Sierra: $3.62 RT all in

So far, DDT and Velocity are dead even for the two products I like, Ninja and Sierra. Maybe for other products they are drastically different but so far I see no real evidence of much lower prices. This is for first contract traded of course, and they will probably differ when real volume is traded, but I'm talking about the initial cost.

The CTS T4 platform DOM is pretty good, but the program as a whole looks like it was written with 1995 style widgets, and is quite slow. Their charts don't even allow full RGB color selection for backgrounds, and the DOM is nice but at the end of the day, nothing special. I love their server-side OCO features, but at $1 extra RT, unless one really needs the spreading tools you mentioned earlier, CTS is quite overpriced. This caps at $500 however, so if someone is doing serious size and needs good data, then a cost analysis might reveal the viability of this as a good option.

Thanks for the information. I didn't see that Advantage offered Sierra. I also use both Ninja and Sierra, so keep me posted as to what you find and I will do the same.

Paul

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  #254 (permalink)
Elite Member
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TheDude View Post
The price changes were slower than I could see on my IQ Feed T&S. The difference wasnt that noticeable, but it was there. The lag was only now and then, not all the time. It was fairly minor, but given the price you pay for TT, Velocity should have delivered a better feed. I imagine Velocity put way too many users on a TT server to cut costs given they arent really a quality outfit. You're only supposed to have 10-12 traders connected per TT gateway. Velocity probably put all their customers on 1 or 2 servers to save money.

The TT feed kept up with IQ feed no probs at the other places I mentioned earlier.

I should point out in fairness, I've got a 8MB line over ADSL+. It's a business ISP, not a retail home ISP service. I dont have a dedicated leased line.

Perhaps something was wrong on the hops between your whiz-bang fast business ISP and Velocity's server then, because I have noticed just the opposite--IQFeed is a little slower than TT. On the same computer, on different computers, always.

You are using a lot of words like "I imagine Velocity put way too many users..." and "Velocity probably put all their ....". While I have my personal biases and favorites, I try to live in the world of reality with these kinds of things and leave the speculation aside. Your experience was that Velocity's TT was slower than IQFeed; mine is that it is faster than IQFeed. All the other is merely speculation and has no place in a discussion where logic and facts belong.



TheDude View Post
As for the errors in position reporting, this is what happened on SEVERAL occasions. The first was the worst which I describe:

This sounds like a truly horrendous experience and I can understand why you have a bit of a negative skew towards your broker if this indeed happened.

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  #255 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bedford, UK
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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itrade2win View Post
I was with Velocity for over a year and never had an issue with them. But what became concerning to me was the what I found about an executive having felony charges for theft and embezzlement. Case Summary

Now that scares me. I'm considering pulling my funds out based on that alone.

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  #256 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
london
 
Futures Experience: None
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josh View Post
I try to live in the world of reality with these kinds of things and leave the speculation aside.

*gulp*

Funny business for you to be in then!!



You seem quite eager to defend Velocity. Im quite happy not to!

I you or anyone is happy at Velocity, gets a good service, and happy paying over the odds on commission, then thats great. You should stick with them.

They say most futures traders last 6-9 months with no professional guidance. If that is the case, then they need all the help they can get - and that includes a good broker and low costs.

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  #257 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
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TheDude View Post
*gulp*

Funny business for you to be in then!!



You seem quite eager to defend Velocity. Im quite happy not to!

I you or anyone is happy at Velocity, gets a good service, and happy paying over the odds on commission, then thats great. You should stick with them.

They say most futures traders last 6-9 months with no professional guidance. If that is the case, then they need all the help they can get - and that includes a good broker and low costs.

There is no speculation as to the exact commission I will pay per side. This is what I'm referring to, obviously. You can say that others are much cheaper, but the numbers don't lie, as far as DDT vs. Velocity goes anyway--they are the same, whereas you said one was much less than the other. I will fairly post on this thread what I am quoted from Advantage, whether it be less or more, when I receive an email back from them. Again, I'm only interested in the numbers as far as commission rates go, because that's all that matters.

As far as defending them goes, you can look on this and other threads linked to from this thread in which I have posted both my own personal positive experiences with them, and expressed concern over other matters. You, however, after only 4 posts come in with an accusatory post that has a lot of subjectivity. Not that I'm denying anything that you say, but you sound emotional about things -- look how many times you wrote "WTF!!!!" in just one paragraph before, as you were recalling your experience. Again, I believe what you're saying, but I am trying to objectively examine the facts like who is faster, who is cheaper, etc., free from any emotions, because your emotions don't affect my business decisions in any way.

I would guess that any trader, whether retail or "professional," would want a "good broker and low costs," as you say. I would say that cost is important, but not the most important. You actually brought cost into the conversation when you advertised that "there are also way cheaper places too" so it is obviously an important criterion for you as well.

I'd like to add that I have no real skin in this game; I have a small account with Velocity but do business elsewhere also and am only interested in making sure that my money is safe, my execution is fast, and that my funds are diversified and not all in one place.

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  #258 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
london
 
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josh View Post
but you sound emotional about things -- look how many times you wrote "WTF!!!!" in just one paragraph before, as you were recalling your experience. Again, I believe what you're saying, but I am trying to objectively examine the facts like who is faster, who is cheaper, etc., free from any emotions, because your emotions don't affect my business decisions in any way.

Wouldnt you be? A bunch of cowboys put incorrect positions in your account, TWICE, in a number of hours, that lead to almost a 30% decline in equity - would you get emotional? Even a little bit? Please answer honestly!

In all fairness though, I do think your 'facts and figures' you are trying to objectively compile will not show you the whole story.

For example, speed will depend on your internet connection. Costs will depend on your negotiating ability. Most brokers dont publish their costs. You have to call them, and they will typically base your quote as a starting point. It isnt reflective of what others will pay who may trade the same approx volume as you in similar products but have better or worse negotiating ability and knowledge of FCMs.

Anyway, I believe I have said all I have to say on Velocity. Like I said, Im just making sure people are aware of what their experiences MAY be like. If you're happy with them, then I'm happy for you too.


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  #259 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
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TheDude View Post
Wouldnt you be? A bunch of cowboys put incorrect positions in your account, TWICE, in a number of hours, that lead to almost a 30% decline in equity - would you get emotional? Even a little bit? Please answer honestly!

In all fairness though, I do think your 'facts and figures' you are trying to objectively compile will not show you the whole story.

For example, speed will depend on your internet connection. Costs will depend on your negotiating ability. Most brokers dont publish their costs. You have to call them, and they will typically base your quote as a starting point. It isnt reflective of what others will pay who may trade the same approx volume as you in similar products but have better or worse negotiating ability and knowledge of FCMs.

Anyway, I believe I have said all I have to say on Velocity. Like I said, Im just making sure people are aware of what their experiences MAY be like. If you're happy with them, then I'm happy for you too.


I would absolutely be upset, of course. And I agree that the published cost is not necessarily the final figure, I'm just comparing apples with apples, i.e., the starting quote.

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  #260 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I know this thread is about Velocity but here is the quote I received from Advantage Futures in email, posting as promised:


Quoting 
Please find below a breakdown of your cost to trade one E-mini S&P contract through Advantage:

Advantage Commission - $0.99 (average if you trade less than 100 contracts per month – see the attached Sliding Rate Calculator)
Exchange Fee - $0.75
Clearing Fee - $0.39
NFA Fee - $0.02
Total per side – $2.15
Total per RT - $4.30

Also, the minimum initial funding level is $10,000.

This is without a static DOM fee of $0.20 RT if using anything other than X_Trader. Velocity at this same base quote rate is $3.62, Advantage is $4.30. So negotiations and volume will play a role in the commission rate, but one is coming into the conversation with Advantage already at a $0.68 per trade disadvantage when compared to Velocity.

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