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Coming from TOS, a Little Confused About What to Choose
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Coming from TOS, a Little Confused About What to Choose

  #11 (permalink)
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john5 View Post
P.S. What is the minimum deposit for Stage 5 and how much historical data do they give you? I've looked on their website, but it doesn't seem to have this information.

Personally I think you are being led up a false path with the Stage5 recommendation.
You do say that you want to use Ninjatrader but Stage5 no longer provides Ninjatrader as a platform option through their brokerage for new clients.
A number of years back Ninjatrader was available from lots of brokerages but then they created their own brokerage for their customers to use. At this point they stopped other brokerages from offering the Ninjatrader platform as an option to new traders.
If you want a brokerage account for Ninja you go to Ninjatrader Brokerage. If you want to use Ninja for the indicators but not to execute through, as you say, then you could download the platform and sign up with the Kinetick data feed. That is a discounted version of DTN IQFeed which works on the Ninjatrader platform only. If you are paying for data from another broker, such as TOS, you should be able to get the CME data fee waiver so you are only paying for the basic Kinetick service fee every month and not full extra data fees too.
(I am 99% sure what I have written is still correct though not having recently read all the relevant websites obviously confirm it all yourself).

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger

Last edited by matthew28; October 28th, 2018 at 11:35 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)
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john5 View Post
What is the minimum deposit for Stage 5 and how much historical data do they give you? I've looked on their website, but it doesn't seem to have this information.

You pretty much have to give them a call to figure out what they can do for you. I don't know about historical data since I do not use that.

Also, I am not familiar with FT71's set up.

Full disclosure is I don't trade VP, but I am able to vouch for Stage 5 as a being a really good choice for me, just a personal experience for others to consider.

Best,

John

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  #13 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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matthew28 View Post
If you want a brokerage account for Ninja you go to Ninjatrader Brokerage. If you want to use Ninja for the indicators but not to execute through, as you say, then you could download the platform and sign up with the Kinetick data feed. That is a discounted version of DTN IQFeed which works on the Ninjatrader platform only. If you are paying for data from another broker, such as TOS, you should be able to get the CME data fee waiver so you are only paying for the basic Kinetick service fee every month and not full extra data fees too.
(I am 99% sure what I have written is still correct though not having recently read all the relevant websites obviously confirm it all yourself).

I was not aware of an option to have a Kinetick data feed and no brokerage account and still use the NT platform.

Wading through the NT and Kinetick websites (with some difficulty because neither seems to like outright statements ), it is still hard for me to tell if you can do this, but it looks like you might.

Regarding the pro CME fees (the $105/mo fee), Kinetick basically says you can use Kinetick and be non-pro if you have a brokerage account with one of the NT-supported brokers (which does not include TOS)... ( https://kinetick.com/CME ).

I take this to mean that you're stuck with the pro fee otherwise, but I think this is actually a CME issue, and may not be up to Kinetick. It's not clear to me whether Kinetick just will not go along with your using a non-NT-approved broker, or whether they are steering you in their direction, or what.

So, the best I can tell is that if you have an NT Brokerage account, the fees overall are small, but you've got to commit some funds to sit idle in the account if you're not really trading it (ie, more than once a month.) You can also ditch the separate Kinetick feed unless you need some additional data it provides. If in fact you can have the Kinetick data feed and the NT platform without an NT-related brokerage account, you've got Kinetick monthly fees of $60 plus whatever the deal is with the CME fees, pro or non-pro. If you're stuck with pro, that's a decently large monthly tab, but perhaps you aren't.

I can't swear how much of this is right () -- they seem to have turned marketing people loose on their websites who don't want to make simple factual statements about anything. Perhaps someone who has done this can add something in here, or questions could be sent to Ninja and/or Kinetick support.

Bob.


Last edited by bobwest; October 28th, 2018 at 09:47 AM.
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  #14 (permalink)
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  • The FREE version includes FREE EOD data for Stocks, Futures and FOREX and Real-Time for Cryptocurrencies.
  • For real-time data, you would need to have a supported brokerage account or a market data subscription though a supported data feed such as Kinetick, you can search here - https://ninjatrader.com/Choice
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  #15 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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NinjaTrader View Post
  • NinjaTrader is always FREE to use for advanced charting, strategy backtesting and trade simulation.
  • A matrix of features included between FREE and paid versions is located here - https://ninjatrader.com/LicenseComparison.
  • The FREE version includes FREE EOD data for Stocks, Futures and FOREX and Real-Time for Cryptocurrencies.
  • For real-time data, you would need to have a supported brokerage account or a market data subscription though a supported data feed such as Kinetick, you can search here - https://ninjatrader.com/Choice
  • NinjaTrader has built in Order Flow/VP tools with the Lifetime license ($999) or for the FREE version, there are numerous VP tools both user submitted and through commercial vendors, you can search here - https://ninjatraderecosystem.com/

Thank you.

Does this mean that you can get subscription real-time, intra-day data from, for example, Kinetick or one of the others (obviously a person will pay for the data service) and also use the NT platform for trade simulation, etc. and not pay for the platform? (Without restrictions except for the fact that you can't put real trades in without a broker.)

If so, I did not understand this and I'm glad to know it. Can you just confirm that I understood you correctly?

Bob.

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  #16 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
Regarding the pro CME fees (the $105/mo fee), Kinetick basically says you can use Kinetick and be non-pro if you have a brokerage account with one of the NT-supported brokers (which does not include TOS).


I hadn't considered whether it needed to be an NT supported broker, though thinking about it that makes sense, they forego the second data fee for Kinetick if they already receive a data fee through their brokerage, but wouldn't want to give up the fee if another brokerage was getting the money.

So maybe Ninja don't want people using their platform for free (outside of testing), if that person is actually trading live with a different broker. Ninjatrader have their own platform, brokerage and data feed (Kinetick) so clearly they want to keep it all in house which is fair enough. After all it is not as if Bookmap, Investor RT, or Jigsaw etc give their platforms away for free. Not to mention that the new Ninja order flow suite tools require a full license anyway.

I guess if a person wants Ninjatrader they open an account with them and if one doesn't want to trade through them for whatever reason then they just open an account with the minimum balance for access to the platform.

You're right about it being hard to find a company person who will provide definitive answers for most things when you get down to the details.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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  #17 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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matthew28 View Post
I hadn't considered whether it needed to be an NT supported broker, though thinking about it that makes sense....

I don't really know if this is what Kinetick is saying or not, it is just the best way I could figure out how to understand what I read on their web site. Since the CME pro/non-pro issue is purely a CME matter, you would think that it wouldn't make any difference to CME which broker you had an account with. But this is a question for Kinetick if someone wanted a clarification.


Quoting 
You're right about it being hard to find a company person who will provide definitive answers for most things when you get down to the details.

Usually if you can get in touch directly with someone, particularly in support, you will get a good answer, at least I have found this is true with NT. It's just that the web pages may not be too clear, since the focus there is selling (which I suppose makes sense, but I don't necessarily always like it .)

This is why I'm glad that @NinjaTrader chimed in just above, especially if he will confirm or otherwise clarify the question I asked him, so I'll be sure I understand the situation accurately.

Bob.

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  #18 (permalink)
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john5 View Post
Hello,

I have been with Thinkorswim (TOS) for about 10 years, trading futures only, but finally decided to try Ninja. The thing is, all the data/brokerage options are a little confusing. In TOS, there are no separate data feeds/brokerages, it is very simple, you just login and use it, and the data for continues contracts goes back more than 10 years.

I am only interested in US Index futures. The reason for using Ninja is to use the Volume Profile and some order flow tools, but not to execute trades. What would be the best option in terms of cost and data quality? In TOS, there is no fee for the data, but it seems that with Ninja, the cheapest data option would be to open a trading account. It is a little confusing.

Thank you very much in advance, I appreciate all the suggestions.

-John.


You can get volume profile and order flow with Sierra charts , and it is free with Infinity or Cannon with just 10 trades per month . I also have an account with TOS , I don't know why TOS added a 1 to their symbols recently ( an example CLZ18 , ESZ18 ) as the charts don't line up with Sierra now .


Last edited by heclara; October 28th, 2018 at 05:03 PM.
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  #19 (permalink)
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NinjaTrader View Post
...

Is there any difference between Doorman and Phillips? I am in the US and remember reading somewhere that Doorman is for international clients. Is that true?

Thank you.

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  #20 (permalink)
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2017 True Edge Awards


Unrelated to this, but I cannot find a link for the 2017 True Edge Awards. Does it exist?

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