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Beware who your broker is?
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Beware who your broker is?

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Beware who your broker is?

It's rather sensitive subject and not sure if it's been asked before. I watched a youtube video couple days ago where Anton Kreil gave seminar in one of the university I believe in London. He said that many of the broker actually put a position againts the losing trader or going with winning trader. I thought it's very clever. Also if I understand correctly, in one of the futures trader 71 webinar he said he can't believe why some of his client put trade order at that specific point of time. I thought is it just coincidence or is it really that scary if it's the truth. Any comments?

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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rintin2x View Post
It's rather sensitive subject and not sure if it's been asked before. I watched a youtube video couple days ago where Anton Kreil gave seminar in one of the university I believe in London. He said that many of the broker actually put a position againts the losing trader or going with winning trader. I thought it's very clever. Also if I understand correctly, in one of the futures trader 71 webinar he said he can't believe why some of his client put trade order at that specific point of time. I thought is it just coincidence or is it really that scary if it's the truth. Any comments?

That may apply to certan securities, e.g. Forex, but it does not apply to futures. With futures you have the so-called DMA (Direct Market Access) which means that as soon as you enter an order, the order is immediately placed on the relevant exchange. So the brokers do not take any position on your behalf.

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  #4 (permalink)
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@xplorer Thanks for the participation. What you said is correct but i believe your broker knows if you're in a position also if i guess it correctly and know either you're long or short. I probably looking some sort of answer/explaination from gray area/taboo topic and won't be going anywhere. Thanks again for your reply.

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  #5 (permalink)
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rintin2x View Post
@xplorer Thanks for the participation. What you said is correct but i believe your broker knows if you're in a position also if i guess it correctly and know either you're long or short. I probably looking some sort of answer/explaination from gray area/taboo topic and won't be going anywhere. Thanks again for your reply.

Yes, your futures broker knows if you have a position on and what position it is.

But knowing your position is different from taking a position against you.

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  #6 (permalink)
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this technique was used in forex industry all broker forex Trade against you

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  #7 (permalink)
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This is a 2 hour video, and I watched as much as I could stand. Iím sure he and others will say he is a fine human being, and perhaps he is, I make no judgment, but this is the biggest bunch of gibberish I have listened to in decades. I watched this video and took notes for 40 minutes of my life that I will never get back, because that is how loooooooooooooong it took to reach the reason for your question, which reminded me of an actual scam that occurred in the early 2000ís and I thought perhaps he was alluding to that.
First, the scam.
Given that a large percentage of futures traders lose ALL their money, a group of brokers set up a futures brokerage, and rather than sending the trades through to the floor or cme electronic system, they simply took the other side of the trade. They were very profitable, and I donít remember how they got caught, but they were prosecuted, and I thought you might be referring to a scam like that. Now, to your issue as brought up in the video.
Kreil states four conflicts of interest between you and your broker: Spread, Commission, Financing Turn, and OTC Gain.
Spread Ė DUH, there is a bid and an ask, and the difference is the spread. This does not preclude you from offering out your stock or futures contract wherever you you choose.
Commission Ė yes, you pay a commission and an exchange fees.
Financing Turn Ė When you buy stock on margin you pay to borrow the money to buy the stock, I donít get how this is something dirty.
OTC Gain Ė I am not familiar with this, I have only traded US stocks and this doesnít apply, sounds more like bid ask to me.
From your profile, I see you are in Indonesia, and have been trading since 2013. I know NOTHING about Indonesian access to markets, and maybe you have a particular situation regarding access to brokers that makes this video pertinent. For US traders this is ridiculous, I have know many Euro traders who also do now face these kinds of obstacles, I suspect other members here will weigh in if you provide more detailed info.
In the meantime, I wish you well, preserve your capital, and stay safe.

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  #8 (permalink)
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This is a 2 hour video, and I watched as much as I could stand. Iím sure he and others will say he is a fine human being, and perhaps he is, I make no judgment, but this is the biggest bunch of gibberish I have listened to in decades. I watched this video and took notes for 40 minutes of my life that I will never get back, because that is how loooooooooooooong it took to reach the reason for your question, which reminded me of an actual scam that occurred in the early 2000ís and I thought perhaps he was alluding to that.
First, the scam.
Given that a large percentage of futures traders lose ALL their money, a group of brokers set up a futures brokerage, and rather than sending the trades through to the floor or cme electronic system, they simply took the other side of the trade. They were very profitable, and I donít remember how they got caught, but they were prosecuted, and I thought you might be referring to a scam like that. Now, to your issue as brought up in the video.
Kreil states four conflicts of interest between you and your broker: Spread, Commission, Financing Turn, and OTC Gain.
Spread Ė DUH, there is a bid and an ask, and the difference is the spread. This does not preclude you from offering out your stock or futures contract wherever you you choose.
Commission Ė yes, you pay a commission and an exchange fees.
Financing Turn Ė When you buy stock on margin you pay to borrow the money to buy the stock, I donít get how this is something dirty.
OTC Gain Ė I am not familiar with this, I have only traded US stocks and this doesnít apply, sounds more like bid ask to me.
From your profile, I see you are in Indonesia, and have been trading since 2013. I know NOTHING about Indonesian access to markets, and maybe you have a particular situation regarding access to brokers that makes this video pertinent. For US traders this is ridiculous, I have know many Euro traders who also do nor face these kinds of obstacles, I suspect other members here will weigh in if you provide more detailed info.
In the meantime, I wish you well, preserve your capital, and stay safe.

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  #9 (permalink)
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@Sunstone yes the video is long and i watched half of it too. I personally don't care about what he does (teaching traders in paradise island show lol), but he is very well known and very interesting to hear what he has to say about it. That's why when I heard another broker said something similar, I just connect the dots and starting discussions. No finger pointing. Just an intersting topic to hear what other traders here think. About Indonesia, yes thats where I was born. Thanks for your participation.

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  #10 (permalink)
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Sunstone View Post
a group of brokers set up a futures brokerage, and rather than sending the trades through to the floor or cme electronic system, they simply took the other side of the trade.

I have been wondering that exact same thing. As retail traders how do we know our orders ever even reach the exchange?

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