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NinjaTrader Brokerage intraday margin call
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NinjaTrader Brokerage intraday margin call

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sofia Bulgaria
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Favorite Futures: Crude CL
 
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NinjaTrader Brokerage intraday margin call

Hello,
Has anybody ever had a margin call (position liquidation) from NT Brokerage? How strict are they? I am talking about small accounts for daytrading only, not big clients. I know what is written in their service agreement but wondering what is really happening.

Regards

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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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icog View Post
Hello,
Has anybody ever had a margin call (position liquidation) from NT Brokerage? How strict are they? I am talking about small accounts for daytrading only, not big clients. I know what is written in their service agreement but wondering what is really happening.

Regards

You seem to mix up regulated futures brokers like NT with bucket shops if you are expecting discretion in this area.

If you cannot accomplish your margin requirements, your positions will be liquidated until you comply according to
their brokerage terms. If your liquidation proceeds (which effectively realize your previous book losses) still fail to
fulfill the margin requirements, you are held liable for your newly minted debts.

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  #4 (permalink)
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I have small account with their brokerage. It only covers one contract, i usualy use CL.

I made my entry when i had 1200 USD in my account. One will presume the margin call will happen when the account ballance goes down to 1000 - thats the minimum daily margin requirement for CL.

Suprice, when i saw it the position was closed and my account was on 840 USD. Also 50 USD fee for closing my position from their Risk management department.

I asked for explanation and they told me "they were very busy at that time". Also, "they have the RIGHT but not the OBLIGATION to close your position".

Why i am pissed off? Because the position was closed just before the price reverse its direction. Of course nobody can be sure when it will happen, but i dont think in that department they have accounters in charge for the margin calls. 100% its done by traders, based on their decision. If not, i am all in that the margin call can be 110% automated to close such small position on 990. Or any other position based on strict rules. These 16% below the margin limit are for what? They did not contacted me or asked me to close my position. I just got email saying it has been done.

That smells bad.

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  #5 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Sorry to say, but you don't even seem to realize how undercapitalized you are.
With only $1200 you were rolling a >$54000 bet - i.e. you had a leverage around 50
in one of the instruments with the highest volatility that one can find at the moment.

After all you should be glad that you got out that cheap - since with your equity you
don't have any margin for errors.

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  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I have never said my possition was correct . No, i have made my entry very very early. The question is not about how good or bad my position was. I am new to NT and after my demo finished i put some money in, nothing bad, nothing to worry.

I asked if anybody else can confirm this is normal for margin call from NT Brokerage. The lack of responses says the NT brokerage clents are only profitable ones (ou yes!). However their support explained how busy the risk department is sooooo.

Wish you good luck all, i will stick with my current platform.

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  #7 (permalink)
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Omer עומר / Israel י
 
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Imagine you had 1.2 million US$ ?
Would you take a trade that can cost you 360K$ ?

To put some more substance around what @choke35 is saying, you should not take
a higher risk than 2% of your capital. (you will many people see talking about that
rule, it is just good money management).

You will quickly find out that with 20 ticks stop, you would need like 10.000$
ate least to start with. In that case you would have been able to wait for the
reversal or even go over your own 2% and not be kicked out from the risk
department.

Nothing to do with the platform...

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  #8 (permalink)
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Thank you for your calculations. But that is off topic.

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  #9 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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icog View Post
Thank you for your calculations. But that is off topic.

hi icog

I think what @rleplae is saying is not really off-topic. His point is that the risk taken on the trade is very high compared to the account's size. He provided an example of risking 20 ticks, whereas in your case you were risking even more (entered trade at 1200 - trade liquidated at 840 - total risk 36 ticks).

Personally I don't use NT Brokerage but my take is that what you experienced is pretty normal behaviour when your account goes under in the way you described.

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  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Broker/Data: Rithmic
Favorite Futures: Crude CL
 
Posts: 175 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 341 given, 158 received


I said it is off topic, because my question was different. Again, is it normal for a broker to wait that much Bellow the margin limit before closing a position?

My other broker has a counter which you can monitor all the time, telling you exactly when you will receive margin call. It goes from 0 to 130%. They dont wait or check or whatever NT pretend they are doing. If your margin limit is 1000 and your total account balance goes bellow that with even 1 USD, all your positions are automatically closed. These are the rules, this is written in the contract. And it is just 2 rows of code, so easy, there is no explanation why NT does not have it.

The NT Brokerage behavior makes me think they just play against you in situations like this, based on their decision. Nobody doubts they have good traders in their team, right?

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