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When a stop loss order is filled beyond limit price
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When a stop loss order is filled beyond limit price

  #21 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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I had read a couple years ago that ES has no market orders. Any market order is converted to limit by broker/exchange. Of course trying to find where I read that now could be difficult. But regardless, I know of no such knowledge about CL, which is why I was seeking out help.


Zoethecus View Post
Correct.

BM said he had a stop limit, but it must have been a stop order.


Silvester17 View Post
that's what I believe too

It is a Stop Limit. Ninja reported it as "StopLimit" in the orders tab. 100% for sure.

I know 100% Ninja sent it as a Stop Limit order. I don't know what happened afterwards. I don't know that I can even trust NinjaTrader with what happens afterwards (actually, I am pretty sure I can't trust it based on all my prior experience with it).

I'd like to read the thread on the NT forum if someone has a link. Maybe NT converted it from stop limit to stop market after it was traded through. Maybe Mirus did. Maybe Exchange did.

I'll keep closer eye next time and try to get screen shots.

Mike

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  #22 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I had read a couple years ago that ES has no market orders. Any market order is converted to limit by broker/exchange. Of course trying to find where I read that now could be difficult. But regardless, I know of no such knowledge about CL, which is why I was seeking out help.





It is a Stop Limit. Ninja reported it as "StopLimit" in the orders tab. 100% for sure.

I know 100% Ninja sent it as a Stop Limit order. I don't know what happened afterwards. I don't know that I can even trust NinjaTrader with what happens afterwards (actually, I am pretty sure I can't trust it based on all my prior experience with it).

I'd like to read the thread on the NT forum if someone has a link. Maybe NT converted it from stop limit to stop market after it was traded through. Maybe Mirus did. Maybe Exchange did.

I'll keep closer eye next time and try to get screen shots.

Mike

Perhaps it traded through your limit, came back down, hit your limit and then you got filled at the market. That's the only thing I can think of. The broker or exchange should not change your order.

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  #23 (permalink)
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Zoethecus View Post
Perhaps it traded through your limit, came back down, hit your limit and then you got filled at the market. That's the only thing I can think of. The broker or exchange should not change your order.

I've asked Mirus for a detailed transaction log from their side showing what they received and executed, so we'll see.

Mike

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  #24 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post

with a stop order, as soon as price is reached, your order becomes a market order

do you know if I can initiate stop order?.....rather than waiting to get hit I prefer to hit the price first with the order......mirus does not like this approach, but now I wonder if this is true for all other brokers....?

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  #25 (permalink)
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zikonc View Post
do you know if I can initiate stop order?.....rather than waiting to get hit I prefer to hit the price first with the order......mirus does not like this approach, but now I wonder if this is true for all other brokers....?

if I understand your question right, you just move your stop to the trading price and then it should be executed.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I had read a couple years ago that ES has no market orders. Any market order is converted to limit by broker/exchange. Of course trying to find where I read that now could be difficult. But regardless, I know of no such knowledge about CL, which is why I was seeking out help.





It is a Stop Limit. Ninja reported it as "StopLimit" in the orders tab. 100% for sure.

I know 100% Ninja sent it as a Stop Limit order. I don't know what happened afterwards. I don't know that I can even trust NinjaTrader with what happens afterwards (actually, I am pretty sure I can't trust it based on all my prior experience with it).

I'd like to read the thread on the NT forum if someone has a link. Maybe NT converted it from stop limit to stop market after it was traded through. Maybe Mirus did. Maybe Exchange did.

I'll keep closer eye next time and try to get screen shots.

Mike

if indeed it was a stop limit order I can see only 2 options. you get filled at 83.30 or you don't get filled at all (at least till price comes back to your limit). but imo 83.35 is not an option.

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  #27 (permalink)
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This was my experience with one of my 6E LIVE account trades (not NT-based Broker) last week;

My setup is as follow;

I trade 3 Contracts as follows;

a. 2 Contracts with 5 ticks Profit Target 1

b. 1 Contract with 10 ticks Profit Target 2

When my Profit Target 1 is hit, my STOP moves to my Entry price (+ 1 tick for LONG or - 1 tick for SHORT); subsequently, my STOP moves by 1 tick whenever the Market price moves 4 ticks in my favor (That's ALL).

With this setup, when my Profit Target 1 is hit and my STOP is moved to my Entry price (+ 1 tick for LONG or - 1 tick for SHORT), I've "banked" (earned) my 2 Contracts 5 ticks Profit Target 1 at that point. My Profit Target 2 may not be achieved if, as my STOP moves in my favor, the STOP is hit. However, I must have earned "x" ticks (where x is the number of ticks my STOP has moved before it is hit). On the other hand, if my STOP moves beyond my Profit Target 2 even by 1 tick, it is my Profit Target 2 that will be hit and achieved. Meanwhile, if I manually "drag" (adjust) my Profit Target 2, by increasing it more that the initial Profit Target 2 (i. e. 10 ticks), then either my STOP will be hit, which may now even be more than my Profit Target 2 (i. e. 10 ticks), or my new Profit Target 2 will be hit, which will also now be more than my initial Profit Target 2 (i. e. 10 ticks).

Based on my above setup, I entered a 3-contract SHORT trade @ 1.3379, I watched closely as my 2 contracts-5 ticks Profit Target 1 was hit (achieved) @ 1.3373 and my STOP moved 1 tick to 1.3378 from my Entry price (1.3379).

My STOP was moved to 1.3378 because my 2 Contracts 5 ticks Profit Target 1 was achieved. My remaining 1 Contract Profit Target 2 was also hit @ 1.3378 when the price made a reverse from 1.3373, which is OK with me, because my STOP was at that point (i. e. 1.3378). I watched my 2 Contracts 5 ticks Profit Target 1 achieved but was awed when my position just suddenly closed without accounting for my 2 Contracts 5 ticks Profit Target 1 ($125.00) in my favor; and the market was NOT volatile at all, at that time. The Statement of my Account forwarded to me later clearly showed this "manipulation", but which my Broker attributed to an "erratic" movement of the price due to the volatility of the instrument. The Statement of my Account recorded ONLY 1 tick for both my 2 contracts-5 ticks Profit Target 1 and my 1 contract Profit Target 2. I refused to agree with Broker.

Lolu

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  #28 (permalink)
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lolu View Post
I refused to agree with Broker.

Lolu

What's the outcome?

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  #29 (permalink)
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Zoethecus View Post
What's the outcome?

I informed my Broker that I was putting on hold, my LIVE trading until the matter was resolved. I was promptly sent a 2-second chart showing a typical market price movement of 6E and a snapshot of the CME Order Information of my trades on that day, all of which do not make any sense to me, specifically as I could not see my third trade of that day on the CME Order Information snapshot, and which was the most contentious.

I've done only one trade since last week (and that was yesterday) since this incidence.

Well, well, well, I'm really considering changing my Broker, but they all seem to be the same.

Lolu

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  #30 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post
if indeed it was a stop limit order I can see only 2 options. you get filled at 83.30 or you don't get filled at all (at least till price comes back to your limit). but imo 83.35 is not an option.

I agree, it seems like this should be the answer, yet the facts disagree. Maybe after I read the NT thread and hear from the broker I'll have a new idea as to what happened.

As for lolu's post, there was no ATM involved here. I completely understand in a fast moving market if your ATM cancels/moves/repositions an order, you can have slippage. But in this case no ATM, the order was sitting there for many minutes before price traded near the level, and the market wasn't moving very fast. It was just a DT breakout if I remember right.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
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