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Dorman Complaint
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Dorman Complaint

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Kirkland, WA/United States
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Dorman Complaint

Just thought I would put it out there that due to a statement error made by Dorman, I ended up losing about $1500 on an open position that I thought was flat. The problem began when a long trade I made on the TF was not recorded or entered properly by Dorman into my statement, and when the trade was stopped out later, they recorded THAT entry as my first trade. I had a total of 4 trades made before market close which should have offset, but according to Dorman I was still short on my statement, causing me to be considered as in an overnight position, and booking an $1100 loss on the previous trades, which they had erroneously recorded.

I didn't notice the problem until I made another TF buy that evening in the overnight session, and noticed that instead of being in market and long, my account was showing as being flat. Both Ninjatrader's position tab in the control center, as well as R-Trader, showed me as being offset and flat, with no active trades or positions in the TF. That was when I noticed my account balance was over a grand less than I expected, and I checked my statement to see that they hadn't recorded the very first long trade I'd made in the previous session.

Dorman does not have an overnight desk, so I couldn't call to confirm my position, and made the mistake of assuming that Ninjatrader, R-Trader, and my Dorman account statement must be correct, and my execution log was wrong -- or the first trade had simply not been cleared or gone into effect. As such I assumed I was indeed flat as everything showed, and I emailed all of this information to my IB, Progressive Trading Group, with a concern about the errors and that I may still be in the market, but I didn't want to enter a short trade just in case I was, which WOULD have shown me as being in position AND naked in both Ninja and R-Trader.

Well long story short, when they finally sorted the mess out, which involved actually contacting the ICE to confirm whether I was still in or not (they told me at first that I WAS flat, and Ninja and R-Trader were correct), they discovered I was indeed long and naked still -- and by this time the TF had gone down 15 points. Not wanting to take any more risk I had to place a sell order to close the position out and book the loss.

Progressive and Dorman are putting all of this back on me of course, saying that because I saw I had an odd number of trades, I should have known I was long, despite what every other piece of information was telling me. Having not been through this before, I was under the impression that if anything my Ninja log would be incorrect, and the statements and both platform positions would be accurate, but I guess now I know. Although frankly, I find it not to hard to imagine the opposite scenario, one in which my log DID show a trade that never went through, and they would then be saying I should have known I was flat because of my statement and platform positions, in spite of what my log said....

At any rate my beef here is that Dorman improperly recorded my trades on my statement and then booked a loss to my account because of that, as well as putting me in a trade overnight, and then that also caused both of my available platforms to show an incorrect account position. Had I known for sure I was still in market I obviously would have never stayed in that long and would have closed out immediately. The bitter irony here of course is that had the market gone UP 15 points, I would have made a nice profit from the error -- but that's never the way these things work, is it?

I am also wondering if all of this is any sort of grounds for an NFA or CFTC complaint, I'm not familiar with this process and I can't find much info on whether this is or is not such a case. Dorman and PTG apparently consider this a closed issue with a simple "oops" on their end, and that at the end of the day it's my fault for not knowing my actual position in spite of all their reporting, and that there is inherent risk in trading, etc. While that may be true, it's hard to know your exact position when three other sources are all telling you the opposite and you have no way to confirm outside of them at the time. I've also been with Dorman for only a short period of time and find it pretty alarming to already encounter an error like this, when I've never seen such an error from the other brokers I've been with in the past. PTG is telling me they've never seen this issue with Dorman before (and that I wasn't the only one this happened to that day), but that doesn't put the $1500 loss back in my account or give me much confidence going forward.

Think big, think positive, never show any sign of weakness. Always go for the throat. Buy low, sell high. Fear? That's the other guy's problem. In this building, it's either kill or be killed. You make no friends in the pits and you take no prisoners. One minute you're up half a million in soybeans and the next, boom, your kids don't go to college and they've repossessed your Bentley. Are you with me?
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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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LightWeight View Post
...
I am also wondering if all of this is any sort of grounds for an NFA or CFTC complaint,....

my advice? forgetaboutit! shop for another broker.

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  #4 (permalink)
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I worked with Dorman through Mirus, their staff are very bad works with clients, this is one reason to avoid them
try use other broker and clearing firm

* If investing gets too difficult for a seventh grader to understand, the system is needlessly complex
* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
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  #5 (permalink)
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@LightWeight

been clearing my trades through dorman since 1979 and never had a problem getting an adjustment that was due to me. i know all three generations of the dorman family, and the other principals at the firm, and they are probably the most honest, stand-up individuals in the industry. so i find it difficult to believe you would have an issue with the firm. they are not in the business to rip people off, and if a mistake were made on their part, they have always eaten the error in the past. perhaps, they feel it was not their error.

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  #6 (permalink)
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Kirkland, WA/United States
 
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tigertrader View Post
@LightWeight

been clearing my trades through dorman since 1979 and never had a problem getting an adjustment that was due to me. i know all three generations of the dorman family, and the other principals at the firm, and they are probably the most honest, stand-up individuals in the industry. so i find it difficult to believe you would have an issue with the firm. they are not in the business to rip people off, and if a mistake were made on their part, they have always eaten the error in the past. perhaps, they feel it was not their error.

Well it is good to hear feedback like that about them, and no I don't think they're out to rip anyone off. They did however quite clearly made an error on my statement and position though, and since both Ninja and R-Trader base my account position off that statement, it confused me as to my true market position. They quite apparently do not view the loss resulting from that confusion as any fault of theirs though, and expect me to eat the loss. Whether or not they are right is something I don't have the experience to know, which is why I posted in here. In fact I'd be curious to know if you've ever had this same issue as well and how it was resolved, or what other errors they've made, since you mentioned that they've adjusted mistakes before.

For now I am writing this off as a lesson learned/everybody gets one, but given that I've been with Dorman a very short time and have already encountered an error like this, which I've not yet had with any other broker, I found the experience rather unsettling to say the least. Hopefully that was just a fluke and it will be smooth sailing going forward.

Think big, think positive, never show any sign of weakness. Always go for the throat. Buy low, sell high. Fear? That's the other guy's problem. In this building, it's either kill or be killed. You make no friends in the pits and you take no prisoners. One minute you're up half a million in soybeans and the next, boom, your kids don't go to college and they've repossessed your Bentley. Are you with me?
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  #7 (permalink)
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my friends and I have been with Dorman for many years, no such problems happened.

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  #8 (permalink)
Market Wizard
London UK
 
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No problems here either

I too have been with Dorman just over a year now. So far all of the daily statements I get from them are accurate to the cent.

Having said that, no company is perfect. Have a work relationship with anyone for a long enough period of time and problems will emerge, sooner or later.

The key, for me, is how any company deals with these issues. tigertrader seems to suggest that whenever they recognise a problem on their part they take responsibility, which is the adult and ethical thing to do.


Quoting 
and since both Ninja and R-Trader base my account position off that statement, it confused me as to my true market position.

@LightWeight, does that mean that you have two platforms connected to one account?

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  #9 (permalink)
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Does anyone know if Dorman has a real-time client portal yet, or do you still have to wait until a statement is emailed to you at night to verify clearing info?

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  #10 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Haverchuck View Post
Does anyone know if Dorman has a real-time client portal yet, or do you still have to wait until a statement is emailed to you at night to verify clearing info?

I remember they had some web-based interface set up for customers, although I never tried it myself.

Not sure if it answers your question, but some platforms allow real-time monitoring of the account. I know my QTrader shows the real-time balance.


EDIT: Check that, I may actually be mistaking their Dorman-direct trading interface for something else. If so, apologies.


Last edited by xplorer; April 7th, 2016 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Correction
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