Zenfire no more? - Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Zenfire no more?
Updated: Views / Replies:213,048 / 1,210
Created: by MeanBean Attachments:13

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 13  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Zenfire no more?

  #1001 (permalink)
Elite Member
Naperville IL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: NT broker
Favorite Futures: NQ ES 6E GC CL
 
Posts: 954 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,184 given, 650 received


tradersimon View Post
First day live on AMP. No complaints whatsoever.

Please read Mike's message on this thread!

Reply With Quote
 
  #1002 (permalink)
Elite Member
London
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, Metatrader, MarketDelta
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: 6E, ES, FGBL
 
Posts: 27 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 21 given, 19 received

Apologies Mike. Have deleted and posted on correct thread..

Reply With Quote
 
  #1003 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,669 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 776 given, 8,724 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



Silvester17 View Post
oh thank you, but I know the term offer and ask

but that's not the point here. if you talk about bid and ask(offer), you refer to the limit orders. widely known as level II. unless you know something I don't, limit orders don't show up on a footprint chart. like I said before, VOLUME at bid and ask (what's actually executed) will show up on a footprint chart.

maybe the pic below will help you better understand:

sigh.....

So how do you know whether a trade hit the bid or the offer?

By having an accurate bid & offer....

Trades come in on the level 1 feed with 3 pieces of information - time, price, volume - there is no "side" on the level 1 feed.

This is not sufficient information to tell whether a trade hit the bid or the offer.

The level 1 feed has different message types, not just trades. Two of the other message types are INSIDE bid & offer updates - telling you when the INSIDE bid & offer is updated.

It is only by having an accurate, up to date view of the inside bid & offer that you are able to build an accurate footprint chart. Especially as you move through prices.

Inside bid & offer is level 1 feed. Few level 1 feeds have accurate or timely enough bid/offer updates to create a footprint chart. IQFeed, Kinetick, CQG are the ones for Ninja that are very accurate.

Specifically this is what will happen on Zen/TT/Rithmic:

bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

This is what you will get on Kinetick/IQFeed
bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
bid update 1810.50
offer update 1810.75
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

The first case will put that last sell market initiated trade @ 1810.50 as a buy. That is the information that footprint charts operate off.

None of this has anything to do with a level 2 feed or market depth feed. For various reasons you cannot combine depth from Level 2 with trades from Level 1 to create a footprint chart.

If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to DionysusToast for this post:
 
  #1004 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received


DionysusToast View Post
sigh.....

So how do you know whether a trade hit the bid or the offer?

By having an accurate bid & offer....

Trades come in on the level 1 feed with 3 pieces of information - time, price, volume - there is no "side" on the level 1 feed.

This is not sufficient information to tell whether a trade hit the bid or the offer.

The level 1 feed has different message types, not just trades. Two of the other message types are INSIDE bid & offer updates - telling you when the INSIDE bid & offer is updated.

It is only by having an accurate, up to date view of the inside bid & offer that you are able to build an accurate footprint chart. Especially as you move through prices.

Inside bid & offer is level 1 feed. Few level 1 feeds have accurate or timely enough bid/offer updates to create a footprint chart. IQFeed, Kinetick, CQG are the ones for Ninja that are very accurate.

Specifically this is what will happen on Zen/TT/Rithmic:

bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

This is what you will get on Kinetick/IQFeed
bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
bid update 1810.50
offer update 1810.75
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

The first case will put that last sell market initiated trade @ 1810.50 as a buy. That is the information that footprint charts operate off.

None of this has anything to do with a level 2 feed or market depth feed. For various reasons you cannot combine depth from Level 2 with trades from Level 1 to create a footprint chart.

So does it mean I donīt see the correct data on NT Time and Sales when using Zen?
I thouht its clear when offers go in to the bid or in to the ask.

Reply With Quote
 
  #1005 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,669 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 776 given, 8,724 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


TradeGamer View Post
So does it mean I donīt see the correct data on NT Time and Sales when using Zen?
I thouht its clear when offers go in to the bid or in to the ask.

Correct - occasionally you will see green instead of red and vice-versa.

In fact, there's a video that explains some of the differences between data vendors (IQFeed) and trading engines (Zenfire).

Upshot is you can choose most accurate or best performance. You can't get both.

IQFeed will lag more than Zenfire but Zenfire will not be as accurate.

The video is from Mirus. Here it is: https://www.mirusfutures.com/video/Data_Vendor_Trading_Engine/Data_Vendor_Trading_Engine.html

TT has the worst Level 1 feed - but look at how popular MD Trader is - yet it's based on fairly poor but very timely data.

My opinion as an order flow trader, I don't think it really matters which you use - I personally use IQFeed/Kinetick - I don't think it's going to be the thing that makes or breaks your trading.

I could be wrong though.

As mentioned before IQFeed and CQG are about the same. The old Zen/Rithmic I'd put next, then TT was down the line.

If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to DionysusToast for this post:
 
  #1006 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received


DionysusToast View Post
I don't think it's going to be the thing that makes or breaks your trading.

One year survived on trading with false data

Reply With Quote
 
  #1007 (permalink)
Elite Member
USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 3 received


TradeGamer View Post
One year survived on trading with false data

It does depend on the feed. Zen data, however, appeared to be mostly ok, in a sense that bid/ask events were properly interlaced with trade events (LAST, in NT terms). Occasionally, there would be an inside quote trade, or a trade well above the ask, or below the bid. The percentage of those was very low, well below 1% in terms of volume.
But that's based on NT replay files and may be some cleaning is done by NT itself, as one can certainly 'fix' illogically sequenced events with a lookahead.

Reply With Quote
 
  #1008 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received


jbarr View Post
It does depend on the feed. Zen data, however, appeared to be mostly ok, in a sense that bid/ask events were properly interlaced with trade events (LAST, in NT terms). Occasionally, there would be an inside quote trade, or a trade well above the ask, or below the bid. The percentage of those was very low, well below 1% in terms of volume.
But that's based on NT replay files and may be some cleaning is done by NT itself, as one can certainly 'fix' illogically sequenced events with a lookahead.

In that case its a point which can be neglected.


Last edited by TradeGamer; January 13th, 2014 at 02:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #1009 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,332 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 4,579 given, 10,313 received


DionysusToast View Post
sigh.....

So how do you know whether a trade hit the bid or the offer?

By having an accurate bid & offer....

Trades come in on the level 1 feed with 3 pieces of information - time, price, volume - there is no "side" on the level 1 feed.

This is not sufficient information to tell whether a trade hit the bid or the offer.

The level 1 feed has different message types, not just trades. Two of the other message types are INSIDE bid & offer updates - telling you when the INSIDE bid & offer is updated.

It is only by having an accurate, up to date view of the inside bid & offer that you are able to build an accurate footprint chart. Especially as you move through prices.

Inside bid & offer is level 1 feed. Few level 1 feeds have accurate or timely enough bid/offer updates to create a footprint chart. IQFeed, Kinetick, CQG are the ones for Ninja that are very accurate.

Specifically this is what will happen on Zen/TT/Rithmic:

bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

This is what you will get on Kinetick/IQFeed
bid update 1810.25
offer update 1810.50
trade 1810.50
bid update 1810.50
offer update 1810.75
trade 1810.75
trade 1810.50

The first case will put that last sell market initiated trade @ 1810.50 as a buy. That is the information that footprint charts operate off.

None of this has anything to do with a level 2 feed or market depth feed. For various reasons you cannot combine depth from Level 2 with trades from Level 1 to create a footprint chart.

now you're making sense.

I made a lot of tests, especially with zen-fire. I've never seen (not saying it never happened) a trade on the wrong side. on the bid side instead the ask or vice versa.

what I've seen are buys above the ask and sells below the bid.

when analysing my zen-fire feed, I got bid/ask updates after every trade. so for me, zen-fire was perfectly fine for order flow. actually liked it better than IQfeed/kinetick

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
 
  #1010 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Bangkok, Thailand
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT/SC
Broker/Data: AMP/TTnet/CQG/SC/Rithmic
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 59 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 12 given, 16 received


i use tick charts. iqfeed, cts t4 and SC futures feed all worked for me. last year i tried pulling up a tickchart with zenfire, chart looked totally different, data looked squeezed and incomplete. i didnīt bother investigating where these differences originated from.
shouldnīt zenfire deliver exactly the same chart as the other feeds if all ticks are sent?

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > Zenfire no more?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zenfire Brokerage record100 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 8 January 7th, 2014 10:57 AM
Issue With Zenfire Nyati Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 21 January 2nd, 2014 12:05 PM
Frequent disconnections from zenfire asiaexpat Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 35 November 26th, 2013 10:19 PM
Rithmic vs Zenfire liquidcci Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 42 September 1st, 2013 03:28 AM
Hi, need zenfire java aAPI atas1 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 2 March 22nd, 2013 07:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-12 in 0.16 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.163.209.109