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Can you open an account with $3000? and start trading the ES
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Can you open an account with $3000? and start trading the ES

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB / Kinetick
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budfox View Post
Yes I know no one here will take me seriously, but I want to know if any brokers (deep discount) will allow me to open an account for $3000 (thats the question, not if its "sensible").

Oh, and I am thinking of trading the ES.

I just want to open an actual account and start trading....(tired of paper trading) .

Don't mind if they charge me slightly higher commissions.....just want to get into one contract and make small gains.

Of course you can but did you think of your trading plan? do you have one?
What about your risk management plan? any idea what you will do?

If you have details, I would love to read.

Thanks
F

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philly, Pa
 
Futures Experience: Master
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sptrader View Post
I have a little different point of view on sim trading...
Sim trading is easier than putting "Real" money at risk, since there are no emotions involved..(no threat of loss).
So I say, don't trade with real money, until you are "consistantly" profitable sim trading, even if it takes many months...
Then, when you are consistantly profitable sim trading, find a market that offers "mico" sizes or "mini" sizes.. If you keep your risk "tiny" in comparison to your acount size, then the stress of trading with real money, will not be an issue... The object at this point, is not to make a fortune, it is to stay in the game long enough, to get good at trading.
When sim trading, you must have the decipline to trade the way you plan to trade with real money... Don't take wild chances sim trading or the sim experience will not be realistic, when switching to a real money account..
Trade small , gain experience... be the tortoise, not the hare, in the money game..



If you were leaning how to race on the grand prix circuit, would you rather get in a formula one car on a race track and run a few laps against other drivers, or would you rather practice on a simulator? Do you really believe that a simulator would adequately prepare you for racing on a track at 200mph against other experienced professional drivers?

Your ability to confront and handle risk is as much a part of each respective endeavor, as the actual physical ability that is required to perform the activity. Eliminate the risk and fear from either and you might as well... play video games.

BTW: RULE NUMBER ONE BEFORE YOU START TRADING - Make sure you are adequately capitalized!


Last edited by tigertrader; June 18th, 2013 at 06:38 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
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Big Mike View Post
A few more things.

...
Finding a "cheap broker" is the wrong path. It's the path that inexperienced traders take and they wind up losing everything.
...
Mike

As the person is from Canada, he can use Oanda to trade the equivalent instruments. You pay a higher price but if you use a higher timeframe then you get a much better payoff proportionally speaking.

Here is a 4 hour chart of the ES today with a possible trade returning $1.02/point. Margin used $99.53CAD per contract. So as you can see cheap does not equal wrong.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

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  #14 (permalink)
Freemason
Chicago, IL
 
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tigertrader View Post
If you were leaning how to race on the grand prix circuit, would you rather get in a formula one car on a race track and run a few laps against other drivers, or would you rather practice on a simulator? Do you really believe that a simulator would adequately prepare you for racing on a track at 200mph against other experienced professional drivers?

I think it would be safest for everyone if I stuck with the simulator.

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  #15 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
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Big Mike View Post
Let me be blunt.

............

Anyone who searches for brokers with the lowest opening requirements or lowest margins are just gamblers. They are not traders. Traders do not search for such things. Instead of giving me your money in the market and making it a painful experience for you, I suggest instead you just quit now and come back after you have more of a clue what it means to be a trader.

Enjoy,
Mike

Mike, the search for lowest account opening and margins is sadly a result of idiotic competition between brokers and their advertising. Brokers of mid size have encouraged this behavior while customers think this is the right way to start. The saddest part of all is that over leveraging is encouraging a pattern of behavior that will stay with the trader forever. If you play "$500 Chips" and you lose, how encouraged would you be to play on "$50 Chips" to make it back? in other words, your initial pattern of behavior will stay with you for a long time.

At Optimus we decided to have accounts start at 5,000 and that is only because we still need to remain competitive. Yes, we at times lose customers because our competition will open for as low as $2,500 all the way down to $1,000(!), but these accounts disappear as fast as they come.

Sadly it has become all about the RTs, and while competition could encourage lots of creativity, in this case I have to "fight" a war and explain to each person while over leveraging and small deposits is the sure way to lose.
Beyond looking for brokers who are "nice", beginner traders should look for brokers who do have a sense of obligation of being real.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #16 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
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budfox View Post
Yes I know no one here will take me seriously, but I want to know if any brokers (deep discount) will allow me to open an account for $3000 (thats the question, not if its "sensible").

Oh, and I am thinking of trading the ES.

I just want to open an actual account and start trading....(tired of paper trading) .

Don't mind if they charge me slightly higher commissions.....just want to get into one contract and make small gains.

different opinion here

if this is your first account, I think it's much smarter to start with a 3,000 dollar account than a 25,000 dollar account. simple reason because you're most likely gonna blow it. so less damage will be done.

you'll be able to see how it is to trade "live". maybe you'll realize trading is not for you. but most importantly, you'll lose only 3,000 dollar. and after blowing this account and you're still convinced to become a trader, then you'll have to save some money to be enough capitalized.

I believe amp futures offers something like that. go for it and good luck.

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Antonio, Tx
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
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BudFox you should make a list of all the things you could buy with three grand. Every time I sit down in my $99 dollar office supply store chair to work on trading at my home office I think of how many top of the line Aeron chairs I could have bought. Probably the best trading decision I have made yet was to only put in half the money I was going to figuring I could always just wire in the rest later.

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  #18 (permalink)
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cologne, europe
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: jforex, ninjatrader, t4-trader
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I would also recommend that after you are profitable in SIM you should start out with very tiny real money risk, maybe just a few hundred dollar account and microlots. Oanda has also CFDs on indices and i believe they are a good broker.You can use your futures data and platform besides.

As said above most ppl blow their hard spared money needed for serious trading while learning, i never thought it would happen to me, too. The brokers know, but donīt tell you that, of course (and some of those fraud bucketshop brokers in the forex and CFD-world event start to hinder and betray you, once you start to successfully building up your account).
So never ever start trading with a big account!!

Regarding account size, once you are a very experienced trader and have a high winning expectency and strict riskmanagement you would only need an account that has about the size you need for the margin plus some hundred dollars for the daily loss limit, if hit, anyway.. (then you need to transfer another "loss limit" for the next trading day, of course; if the day was profitable immediately get the money out).


Last edited by CFuture; June 19th, 2013 at 05:28 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)
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Munich Germany
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: MultiCharts .NET,MultiCharts,Amibroker
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers IQFeed
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CFuture View Post

As said above most ppl blow their hard spared money needed for serious trading while learning, i never thought it would happen to me, too. The brokers know, but donīt tell you that, of course (and some of those fraud bucketshop brokers in the forex and CFD-world event start to hinder and betray you, once you start to successfully building up your account).
So never ever start trading with a big account!!

Bucketshops that is what they are and thats why i want to trade there sometimes, because beating a bucket shop reminds me of reminescences of a stock operator.
Great description and right now we see history repeating
1910 bucketshops were made for the small investor who could not afford to speculate with real stocks.
And now we have all those certificates and contracts for differences which are nothing els than a piece of paper with a hard stop making the paper worthless. Most of the customers can get betrayed you are right.
Therefore playing against them can be tough.

I useair to me FXCM for that and yet i have to say they were always fair in order execution.
But for sure you cannot scalp but for a beginner i guess scalping is not the right way to learn trading.
Especially i like the easy integration to ninjatrader using the data of FXCM for free.
If you use ninja in the free version you can trade by writing your own application for the FXCM api.
For a programmer guy like me thats fun.

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  #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
Colorado
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker/Data: IB & Iqfeed
Favorite Futures: ES , CL
 
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tigertrader View Post
If you were leaning how to race on the grand prix circuit, would you rather get in a formula one car on a race track and run a few laps against other drivers, or would you rather practice on a simulator? Do you really believe that a simulator would adequately prepare you for racing on a track at 200mph against other experienced professional drivers?

Your ability to confront and handle risk is as much a part of each respective endeavor, as the actual physical ability that is required to perform the activity. Eliminate the risk and fear from either and you might as well... play video games.

BTW: RULE NUMBER ONE BEFORE YOU START TRADING - Make sure you are adequately capitalized!

*********************************************************************************

** Pilots learn to fly with simulators , so why shouldn't traders ?? both crash and burn, if they fail..
My point was, if you can't make money in Sim trading , you shouldn't try trading with real money...

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