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AMP Futures and Mirus (NinjaTrader Brokerage as of June 30 2014), which one is better
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AMP Futures and Mirus (NinjaTrader Brokerage as of June 30 2014), which one is better

  #211 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Antonio, Texas
 
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rafiqtrader View Post
thanks. i actually got notice from amp about this topic.

We would also like to take this opportunity to remind you that AMP is one of the only FCM's today that does not engage in any business other than the processing of trades for Futures and Commodity Customers. We have no proprietary trading, no exposure to mortgage backed securities, and no exposure to European debt.


lets add that to the list. amp is fcm and mirus is ib.

in my opinion it is was safer to go with a fcm that deals only with its own customers than go with the bigger and older fcm where who knows what they are doing. like mf global

My opinion is quite the opposite. The bigger and older clearing firm is safer, particularly when removed from the broker. As I think I've made clear, Mirus' reach into client assets held elsewhere is non-existent, so the insinuation made that they could be involved in an MF Global type scam is just plain silly. Frankly, I don't care if Mirus is involved in prop trading as long as they have no ability to put my assets at risk there. It's just irrelevant propaganda spread by amp. Look at the FCM financial data. That's cold hard data that doesn't lie.

Amp as a clearing firm looks like it's run out of somebody's garage. $30 million in client assets is a bad joke, as is $800K in excess liquidity. You think you know what they're doing with your money? I don't see an explicit statement anywhere concerning the issue. Is it in the bank, t-bills, repos, what? Again contrast that with the explicit statement from the front page of the RCG site. If you want to trade your $1k account at amp, be my guest. If you're trading real money, I think you'd be smart to look elsewhere. Bottom line, just doing the math, is with what Amp is listing as client assets under management, they would have at most say 300 clients my size as their complete client base. This isn't a place where well-capitalized traders are trading. They are tiny.


Last edited by sandman; March 12th, 2012 at 01:30 AM.
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  #212 (permalink)
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Houston,Tx
 
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Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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rafiqtrader View Post
thanks. i actually got notice from amp about this topic.

We would also like to take this opportunity to remind you that AMP is one of the only FCM's today that does not engage in any business other than the processing of trades for Futures and Commodity Customers. We have no proprietary trading, no exposure to mortgage backed securities, and no exposure to European debt.


lets add that to the list. amp is fcm and mirus is ib.

in my opinion it is was safer to go with a fcm that deals only with its own customers than go with the bigger and older fcm where who knows what they are doing. like mf global

I have an account with Mirus.

My money is handled by Rosenthal Collins Group. This is from their website

Do you know how your broker invests customer funds?


Click here to see how Rosenthal Collins Group invests customer segregated funds

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  #213 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
I have an account with Mirus.

My money is handled by Rosenthal Collins Group. This is from their website

Do you know how your broker invests customer funds?


Click here to see how Rosenthal Collins Group invests customer segregated funds

Attachment 65963

Yes. That is precisely what I was referring to. Transparency.

Nothing analogous at amp.

The situation at MF Global was a complete lack of transparency, combined with prop trading and in-house clearing. That gave them the incentive and means to do what they did. At least 2 of those 3 conditions exist at Amp. They say they aren't involved in prop trading, but in reality, who knows...

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  #214 (permalink)
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sandman View Post
Yes. That is precisely what I was referring to. Transparency.

Nothing analogous at amp.

The situation at MF Global was a complete lack of transparency, combined with prop trading and in-house clearing. That gave them the incentive and means to do what they did. At least 2 of those 3 conditions exist at Amp. They say they aren't involved in prop trading, but in reality, who knows...

I don't like AMP either but rafiqtrader has got a point, or rather technical points that makes AMP much better offer than Mirus
"technology: AMP = CQG Mirus = zenfire
speed; i need some help with this one
price: amp is cheaper
margins: same
available markets: amp has more
trading back up : not sure what mirus has - AMP has CQG realtime portal
trade desk: never used"
However you both present an argument about MF Global in a very naive way. If you get the last CEO of their futures division to run AMP or RCG then your money will be gone if he decides to do so. No amount of transparency will save your funds from the swindle. If they can get away with the crime they committed without being even put to the court they will be doing it again and again.

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  #215 (permalink)
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dlatbm View Post
I don't like AMP either but rafiqtrader has got a point, or rather technical points that makes AMP much better offer than Mirus
"technology: AMP = CQG Mirus = zenfire
speed; i need some help with this one
price: amp is cheaper
margins: same
available markets: amp has more
trading back up : not sure what mirus has - AMP has CQG realtime portal
trade desk: never used"
However you both present an argument about MF Global in a very naive way. If you get the last CEO of their futures division to run AMP or RCG then your money will be gone if he decides to do so. No amount of transparency will save your funds from the swindle. If they can get away with the crime they committed without being even put to the court they will be doing it again and again.

My point is rather simple. With in-house clearing there isn't one additional check before a wire can be sent using your funds to satisfy a corporate obligation. Thus, prop trading at Mirus doesn't worry me. If they cleared their own stuff as Amp does & they did prop trading, very different story. The very ability to carry out an MF Global type theft would be very questionable. For that to happen at Mirus, you'd need two people acting in collusion, one at Mirus, the other at RCG. It's not merely a matter of John calling up Frank & saying, "we need the clients money to save the firm. do the wire.".

Go ahead & use amp. See if I care. Everything I saw as a client & after makes me think they are awful & risky. But hey, what do I know. For 3 months I was running the same trades, same volumes, same instruments and same times at the two brokers. I would suggest to anybody who doesn't accept the results of my experiment, go ahead & reinvent the wheel doing the same with half your account at each. Then decide. You can make these stupid lists about this or that, but until you work them side-by-side, get discourtesy, aggravation, and hypertension at one and angels & harp music at the other, you'll never really know. And look at the FCM financial data on RCG, Dorman, and AMP at the cftc site as well.


Last edited by sandman; March 12th, 2012 at 08:04 AM.
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  #216 (permalink)
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sandman View Post
My point is rather simple. With in-house clearing there isn't one additional check before a wire can be sent using your funds to satisfy a corporate obligation. Thus, prop trading at Mirus doesn't worry me. If they cleared their own stuff as Amp does & they did prop trading, very different story. The very ability to carry out an MF Global type theft would be very questionable. For that to happen at Mirus, you'd need two people acting in collusion, one at Mirus, the other at RCG. It's not merely a matter of John calling up Frank & saying, "we need the clients money to save the firm. do the wire.".

I agree that AMP sucks despite some technical points that you discussed. There is a public ignorance about MF Global and their customers probably did not think that could have happened to them - having their money in segregated accounts. 1.6 B is missing and our friend does not know where it went?? Someone had to call someone else to move the money before the public announcement and the call was not about saving the firm. They got their bonuses and the customers went broke. If you feel your funds are safer here but not there - read more about the case and question everything.
Thanks - no need to respond.

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  #217 (permalink)
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Dallas Texas/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Mirus, Zenfire, Ninjatrader
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Mirus is for newbies - I was one!


TXmkrr View Post
hi sandman, I am also in texas and mirus customer. howdy

I was just talking to my friend and we just read that mirus is offering this month a $500 credit to anyone that transfers in to them, but credit is only for new customers that transfer in before the end of the month. What about us? We are the customer that have been with them and obviously over paying by 25 cents. They should comp us too!!! What do you think?

I am officially out of there!!! I feel like such a sucker. After i got pissed about them offering to pay new customers $500 credits to transfer in to them, i did a simple google search on all the ninja brokers mention in this forum. all of them cheaper, at least 25 cents cheaper and lower from the very 1st trade. add to it, not on them have inactivity fees.

Mirus-Zenfire - ES $4.22 CL $4.84 and $25 inactivity fee
Optimus-Rithmic- ES $4.00 CL $4.34
Velocity-TT- ES $3.82 CL $4.44
AMP-CQG- ES $3.62 CL $4.24

and for what? Zenfire? the same as rithmic. Zenfire better than TT or CQG. I doubt it...i do not see any professionals talking about zenfire. Zenfire is just another marketing play by mirus...just like the $500 credit to lure newbie traders into over playing for commissions.

Learn from my ignorance, shop around and treat your trading as a real business.

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  #218 (permalink)
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Regarding the $500 of commission credit from Mirus, you can see this thread:

https://futures.io/brokers-data-feeds/18472-mirus-free-500-comm-thru-end-march-2012-a.html#post199998

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  #219 (permalink)
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TXmkrr View Post
add to it, not on them have inactivity fees.
Mirus-Zenfire - ES $4.22 CL $4.84 and $25 inactivity fee

Have you considered the margins ?

Yes, inactivity fee is ridiculous and hateful even if it's easy to beat at moment, but Zenfire is oriented to ask 40 R/T as a minimum. This will sound very unpopular. If I trade a couple of days in a month I risk to pay this hateful fee. Isn't this an ovetrading encouragement ? I hope that Mirus and Zenfire read this forum ...

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  #220 (permalink)
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First little old lady, "The food here is sooo bad"
Second little old lady, "... and the portions are so small"

First Trader, "..... broker charges an inactivity fee for not trading..."
Second Trader, " ..... and they charge $0.25 more per trade"



I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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