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Atlas Ratings on FCMs
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Atlas Ratings on FCMs

  #31 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Atlas ratings has released its report before the bankruptcy of PFG. This is a factor to consider. It is unfair to undermine the credibility of the Atlas.

Yes it is fair, especially when they rank a non existing FCM (XpressTrade) and they give them and Goldman the same score.
I am not a GS fan or advocate, BUT in all honesty when you rank FCMs you data has to be 100% accurate.
How many mistakes they have the done in their calculations that we don't see in diversification, customer flow, etc ??

I am also concerned for my customers but I want someone who has done real due diligence and show as to how they have arrived to overall health rankings.

We have opposite opinions on this report, but this is your money and naturally you are entitled to do due diligence in a manner that you feel comfortable with and I respect how you go about your business, and for that matter anyone else who holds funds with an FCM.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #32 (permalink)
Elite Member
Northern Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Atlas ratings has released its report before the bankruptcy of PFG. This is a factor to consider. It is unfair to undermine the credibility of the Atlas. What they have posted seems to be correct.
....
I don't trust anymore. From my point of view, starting tomorrow I will ask periodically the financial statements on paper and original signature. A stupid pdf is no longer enough. If my FCM reject I will close the account. I can trade by my individual swiss bank account, most expensive but safe.

So you think you can tell that the Atlas ratings hold merit?
That seems to be rather naive....and it seems to be totally out of line with your later statement.
Why should a presumed one man show coming out of nowhere rating FCMs by totally unknown methods be any more trustworthy than even the dodgiest FCM let alone the more reputable ones!?


Vvhg

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  #33 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SC
Favorite Futures: ES / SPY
 
Posts: 9 since Jul 2012
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No Extremes Here


@Matt

Actually, I am simply researching futures brokers and need to get to the bottom of all this as part of that research. I tried to word my comment/question in a way that would not suggest I felt Vision was disreputable. I just don't know how to interpret the NFA information, and have no clue about Atlas (other than what I dug up) and never claimed them to be an authority on anything. You have helped clear things up in that regard and I appreciate your take.

I haven't traded S&P futures since the mid-to-late '90s -- before creation of the e-mini -- and a lot has changed since then. Everything I have read about you indicates you conduct yourself with honor and integrity and I accept that without hesitation. I mean, how can anyone question a million positive comments!? That is why you are at the top of my list.

While I agree we should not go to the extremes of paranoia, with two major frauds in less than a year, there is a lot to consider. Given the margin requirements to hold ES overnight, and assuming one meets with enough success to trade many multiples of contracts, a lot of money would be entrusted to the care of unknown entities with absolutely no account protection at all. That requires a huge leap of faith. With you vouching for Vision based on your past, personal involvement with them, that leap may be easier to make, but it would still be a leap, nevertheless.

My apology if I offended you by the wording of my initial comment.


Last edited by ondafringe; July 15th, 2012 at 02:58 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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ondafringe View Post
@Matt

Actually, I am simply researching futures brokers and need to get to the bottom of all this as part of that research. I tried to word my comment/question in a way that would not suggest I felt Vision was disreputable. I just don't know how to interpret the NFA information, and have no clue about Atlas (other than what I dug up) and never claimed them to be an authority on anything. You have helped clear things up in that regard and I appreciate your take.

I haven't traded S&P futures since the mid-to-late '90s -- before creation of the e-mini -- and a lot has changed since then. Everything I have read about you indicates you conduct yourself with honor and integrity and I accept that without hesitation. I mean, how can anyone question a million positive comments!? That is why you are at the top of my list.

While I agree we should not go to the extremes of paranoia, with two major frauds in less than a year, there is a lot to consider. Given the margin requirements to hold ES overnight, and assuming one meets with enough success to trade many multiples of contracts, a lot of money would be entrusted to the care of unknown entities with absolutely no account protection at all. That requires a huge leap of faith. With you vouching for Vision based on your past, personal involvement with them, that leap may be easier to make, but it would still be a leap, nevertheless.

My apology if I offended you by the wording of my initial comment.

I understand and truly no apology is required.
You have legitimate concerns, and I hope I did not answer them in an aggressive manner.

This is a though times for the industry, the brokerage business is getting a hit after MF and PFG. The last few days I have spent time with customers who are had funds with PFG, and trust me, it's hard to listen to their stories. Good folks, hard working people, who just enjoyed trading and have put their faith in a system that failed them. The same was after MF Global, except that I feel at MF customers had a lot more funds. However, I believe that these 2 incidents will open the door to new regulations which will allow more transperency where traders could trust the system more.

Brokers overseas are having a party putting down the US system, and how it failed.
FCMs here hold a lot of foreign accounts so the brokers overseas are all trying to bring it home by scare tactics.
But, I remind them of Nick Lesson who brought down Britain's oldest bank, Sumitomo bank $1.8 billion copper trading scam, Nomura illegal transactions up to the recent Euribor scandal.
This was trading inside an organization that individuals were conducting on their own and no one detected for years.

This is the problem: Decent people trust, and crooks are narscisistic who take advantage of their genius to steal instead of helping. This is a human nature issue and no regulation can supervise that.
Who would ever think that once the largest NASDAQ market maker (Madoff) would steal $50 Billion?

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #35 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Surrey UK
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Ninjatrader, Xtrader, Trader Workstation
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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mattz View Post
I understand and truly no apology is required.
You have legitimate concerns, and I hope I did not answer them in an aggressive manner.

This is a though times for the industry, the brokerage business is getting a hit after MF and PFG. The last few days I have spent time with customers who are had funds with PFG, and trust me, it's hard to listen to their stories. Good folks, hard working people, who just enjoyed trading and have put their faith in a system that failed them. The same was after MF Global, except that I feel at MF customers had a lot more funds. However, I believe that these 2 incidents will open the door to new regulations which will allow more transperency where traders could trust the system more.

Brokers overseas are having a party putting down the US system, and how it failed.
FCMs here hold a lot of foreign accounts so the brokers overseas are all trying to bring it home by scare tactics.
But, I remind them of Nick Lesson who brought down Britain's oldest bank, Sumitomo bank $1.8 billion copper trading scam, Nomura illegal transactions up to the recent Euribor scandal.
This was trading inside an organization that individuals were conducting on their own and no one detected for years.

This is the problem: Decent people trust, and crooks are narscisistic who take advantage of their genius to steal instead of helping. This is a human nature issue and no regulation can supervise that.
Who would ever think that once the largest NASDAQ market maker (Madoff) would steal $50 Billion?

If they can't catch a guy who photo-shopped and PO-boxed his way to 200 million, God knows how they can detect much more complex financial frauds and shenanigans. That's why we can trust no one now because essentially its the wild west out there.

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  #36 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Surrey UK
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Ninjatrader, Xtrader, Trader Workstation
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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I think this rating is nonsense really. AMP is higher than Advantage,RCG? lol

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  #37 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Windsor, ON, Canada
 
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Probably why McCormick did what he did. He was a victim of MFG it seems. None the less the report seems poorly done IMHO from many angles.

Customer Divide at MF Global - WSJ.com

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  #38 (permalink)
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Walhalla, SC
 
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  #39 (permalink)
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  #40 (permalink)
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So much for ratings being useful....

http://media.futuresmag.com/futuresmag/historical/Issues/2011/December-2011/Documents/Top50_2011.pdf

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