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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)
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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)

  #731 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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abdunbar View Post
So... it wasn't exactly clear how the claim was to be submitted. I filled out the acrobat form, printed it. Then scanned it along with my June and July 2012 statements. Next I planned to submit via the trustees website.

Did you send a hardcopy or via the website?

Now it sounds like the funds are going to Vision whether we want them to or no?

very confusing situation,

Archie

I talked to Rust/Omni and my IB that worked with PFG.

The recommendation was to send by certified mail a hard copy of your claim, follow all the instructions. Include an extra copy of the claim and attachments with a self-addressed stamped envelop so that they can stamp and verify as received the extra copy and send it back to you for your records.

Everything need to be signed and dated including any attachments such as your last account statement.

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  #732 (permalink)
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Update

Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

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  #733 (permalink)
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little did someone who were asking for all these, knew....



aligator View Post
I talked to Rust/Omni and my IB that worked with PFG.

The recommendation was to send by certified mail a hard copy of your claim, follow all the instructions. Include an extra copy of the claim and attachments with a self-addressed stamped envelop so that they can stamp and verify as received the extra copy and send it back to you for your records.

Everything need to be signed and dated including any attachments such as your last account statement.

Update
Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

@aligator

for sure. there is such possibility. and it is downright frightening too. one of our trading sisters here had been defrauded some three times, if my memory is correct. but in spite of and despite of all the frauds bestowing upon her, she is still going strong today.

isn't that right, sis?

little did some of those officials know or realize just how much it would cost to mail something important out of third world zone.

last week it costs 30 usd just to mail a usa interest bearing check originated from a new york bank which was routed to thailand instead of the designated usa bank.

no wonder, segregated accounts are being manipulated and defrauded in the usa so very often.

probably many in the industry won't even where bangkok is on a globe.... LOL

to me, it is a joke asking for anything other than verifying email and destination bank where redistribution has been designed by the acct holder whose acct has been in existence in pfg mainframe with its trading activities.

some people just do not know anything other than what evolves immediately around them.... LOL


Last edited by nakachalet; October 8th, 2012 at 01:04 PM.
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  #734 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
@aligator

for sure. there is such possibility. and it is downright frightening too. one of our trading sisters here had been defrauded some three times, if my memory is correct. but in spite of and despite of all the frauds bestowing upon her, she is still going strong today.

isn't that right, sis?

little did some of those officials know or realize just how much it would cost to mail something important out of third world zone.

last week it costs 30 usd just to mail a usa interest bearing check originated from a new york bank which was routed to thailand instead of the designated usa bank.

no wonder, segregated accounts are being manipulated and defrauded in the usa so very often.


probably many in the industry won't even where bangkok is on a globe.... LOL

to me, it is a joke asking for anything other than verifying email and destination bank where redistribution has been designed by the acct holder whose acct has been in existence in pfg mainframe with its trading activities.

some people just do not know anything other than what evolves immediately around them.... LOL




No, this makes the 4th....over about 25 - 30 years.

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  #735 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
Forget about a direct re-distribution. $123M to be Block Transferred to Vision, as if it was not already complicated enough. Should we be worried that Vision runs away with the whatever is left from the money? After Refco, IM G, and PFG, for sure there will be another one.

Peregrine Financial Group, Inc.: Home

As a general rule, I would not be worried about Vision. But the only way to solve all of this is with insurance, and until that exists, there is always the possibility of anything happening.

Mike

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  #736 (permalink)
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monday, oct 8, 2012 at 19:36: pfg updated

there have been several updates that set my head swaying north and south.... lol

adding to what you already knew, here is the latest received just a few minutes ago; which at the same time might already have been a late news for some around here.

whatever, it is going to be soon, ms. b.... and all;

warm regards and best trading for all....

PFGBest Update: Speeding Up | Attain Capital Managed Futures Blog

on the other hand, why not make it easier for everyone, by just cut and paste it below to save everyone's time, K?

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Last edited by nakachalet; October 8th, 2012 at 08:49 PM.
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  #737 (permalink)
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Insurance and unlikely option


Big Mike View Post
As a general rule, I would not be worried about Vision. But the only way to solve all of this is with insurance, and until that exists, there is always the possibility of anything happening.

Mike

Mike, that would be the ideal scenario but in my opinion highly unlikely there will be any insurance for the following reasons:

Firstly, it is highly unlikely even the riskiest insurer would take on companies with the risk profiles of Futures brokers. I have extensive experience in securing corporate insurance for much larger and less risky entities than FCMs and coverage in some cases was very difficult to obtain. Most of the policies ended up with some fairly unpalatable exclusions with very hefty premiums.

Secondly, even if FCMs could secure insurance in their own right the premiums would be so expensive it would drive many out of business. The insurers would view FCMs as an extreme risk resulting in premiums probably in the vicinity of $500k-$1m plus per FCM. Bear in mind the regulator offers no comfort to any insurance company that their risks will be protected as they have exhibited virtually no skills in implementing even the most basic financial controls.

If, for some reason the regulator was able to secure cost effective blanket coverage across the industry it would need to levy each FCM individually the cost of the coverage? How would this cost be split? Assets? Customer numbers? trading volume?

Whatever the case, insurance will result in much higher commissions as the FCMs will need to pass this cost on to their customers to recover the insurance levy. I doubt they would want to risk passing on this cost to retail customers as they would likely lose more business and certainly would struggle to win new business.

I suspect we won't see much change to the wild west of segregated bank account control. Retail traders may just have to "grit our teeth" and live in hope the regulator is able to put effective controls on these segregated accounts. Having said that, this is an extremely simple issue to resolve and put the solution here:

https://futures.io/brokers-data-feeds/21648-futures-broker-due-diligence-notes-p...up-pfg-7.html#post267646

The only difficult issue is how to deal with daily changes in FCM bank account balances. Just because they are monitoring balances electronically isn't the whole story. What is their plan if they see say a 10% reduction in the balance in one day? It could be a large client pulling out their funds or it could be fraud? How are they going to check this? Rely on the FCM to tell them it was a client.


Cheers
DJ


Last edited by djkiwi; October 8th, 2012 at 10:08 PM.
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  #738 (permalink)
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who is transparent enough to head up the self-insurance dept?


djkiwi View Post
Mike, that would be the ideal scenario but in my opinion highly unlikely there will be any insurance for the following reasons:

Firstly, it is highly unlikely even the riskiest insurer would take on companies with the risk profiles of Futures brokers. I have extensive experience in securing corporate insurance for much larger and less riskier entities than FCMs and coverage in some cases was very difficult to obtain. Most of the policies ended up with some fairly unpalatable exclusions with very hefty premiums.

Secondly, even if FCMs could secure insurance in their own right the premiums would be so expensive it would drive many out of business. The insurers would view FCMs as an extreme risk resulting in premiums probably in the vicinity of $500k-$1m plus per FCM. Bear in mind the regulator offers no comfort to any insurance company that their risks will be protected as they have exhibited virtually no skills in implementing even the most basic financial controls.

If, for some reason the regulator was able to secure cost effective blanket coverage across the industry it would need to levy each FCM individually the cost of the coverage? How would this cost be split? Assets? Customers numbers? trading volume?

Whatever the case, insurance will result in much higher commissions as the FCMs will need to pass this cost on to their customers to recover the insurance levy. I doubt they would want to risk passing on this cost to retail customers as they would likely lose more business and certainly would struggle to win new business.

I suspect we won't see much change to the wild west of segregated bank account control. Retail traders may just have to "grit our teeth" and live in hope the regulator is able to put effective controls on these segregated accounts. Having said that, this is an extremely simple issue to resolve and put the solution here:

https://futures.io/brokers-data-feeds/21648-futures-broker-due-diligence-notes-p...up-pfg-7.html#post267646

The only difficult issue is how to deal with daily changes in FCM bank account balances. Just because they are monitoring balances electronically isn't the whole story. What is their plan if they see say a 10% reduction in the balance in one day? It could be a large client pulling out their funds or it could be fraud? How are they going to check this? Rely on the FCM to tell them it was a client.

Cheers
DJ

agree with practically all that was said.

however, there surely is nothing wrong with this particular segment of the futures industry to INSURE ITSELF....

the insiders know best what ought and what should....

at the end, all traders would be insured, the premium would be distributed amongst the insured and those insurers participating in the self-insurance which ultimately would benefit maximally those in the futures industry, particularly small traders.

the big humongous question would most likely be.... who are transparent enough to head up this self-insurance dept....?

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  #739 (permalink)
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Insurance

Canadian Accounts did have Insurance and they will not lose any money so I have heard Stock accounts do have it here and
we here in the USA are way behind in Financial regulation to not have it

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  #740 (permalink)
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we really have no one else to blame.... except our good selves....



Wave View Post
Canadian Accounts did have Insurance and they will not lose any money so I have heard Stock accounts do have it here and
we here in the USA are way behind in Financial regulation to not have it

@Wave

thx

we really have no one else to finally blame, except ourselves; as much as we dislike to do that.

as an astute group of traders/investors, we would consider ourselves here as pretty sharp, won't we?

there are practically thousand of us here who care about what happen to our so call idle-play money, however large or however little they are, is not the point.

as a trading group, if and when we decide to bond together to push for whatever improvement in this shabby industry, we ought to be able to do so, because we care immensely about trading and everything about trading, before, during and after the settlement bell.

we as a specialized interest group, do not care enough, then..... pls spare others.... why would they care about our family members... we are mostly just a set of number to all those out there....

i won't mind meeting head to head with the sharpest traders on the trading arena, and i am very happy if and when any of them could out figure my trade, any trade, and; walk away with my money. i won't regret it one bit....

however, to have some jerks or group of jerks, the like pfg et al, defraud my euro behind my back, infuriate me to no end. sorry everyone.

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