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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)
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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)

  #491 (permalink)
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Zelek11 View Post
I wanted to share a different side to the PFG story, one about some of the cool people that worked there. PFG was pretty big on trader education and so recently they started offering 12-week introductory courses. They were free if you signed up in advance. You didn't need to have an account with them to participate (I didn't have one). They first offered Introduction to Futures, and then earlier this year added Intro to Forex and Intro to Options. Curt Wagaman taught Futures and Options and Steve Nurre taught Forex.

I signed up, a little skeptical at first, for the Forex class which started in March and finished a few weeks ago. It was very much like a college class. Two lectures a week, 90-120 minutes each, along with homework and exams, if you wanted the completion certificate afterwards. The focus really was on education. There was some PFG cheerleading of course, but no pressure. We even had guest lectures from Jimmy Young and Bob Iaccino.

Anyway, the summer Futures class was to start on July 10th, the day after the fraud was discovered. And the summer Forex class was going to start on the 17th. There was of course no class on the 10th as the instructors were out of jobs. But during the week both guys got together and then held an informational webinar on Friday.

As educators they didn't want to let their students down, so they decided to hold 5 week courses...for free. Futures is going to start on the 17th and Forex on the 24th. I was stunned that these guys would work for free like this. The core material should remain intact because you won't have any info about PFG and no midterm and final exam reviews.

The other reason for a 5 week course is because, as Steve Nurre said in the webinar, "I don't know where I'll be in 6 weeks..."

--------------------
Money is money; I get it.

However, BULLSHIT on your 1 post 'whatever'~~after the 'crisis' breaks.

Fact is that PFG forex was a bucket shop; don't you placate me--no way.

I speak for learned posters and yep; I live my online profile without regret and say what I have to say

I am a 27+ year full-time trader.

Don't post this bullshit propoganda (your 1 post)--I don't have any use--no bloody use for your 1 time 'toss-off' post. Nope.

I stand behind this post and if Big Mike has a problem with that; he and I will resolve it and I will honor his opinion.

You sir, with all due respect--appear to be full of shit.

peace

hedvig

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  #492 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@Big Mike

Who does Velocity clear through?

official answer by bobk from VF post #158 New edge and ABN Amro https://futures.io/brokers-data-feeds/4641-experience-velocity-futures-16.html

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  #493 (permalink)
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redratsal View Post
official answer by bobk from VF post #158 New edge and ABN Amro https://futures.io/brokers-data-feeds/4641-experience-velocity-futures-16.html

Executive Bios : GHF Group : Clearing and trading futures and options on international exchanges.

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  #494 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
If Attain is correct ... that would certainly be good news!

This is disturbing: "CRT Capital has already swooped in and offered to buy up customer claims from Peregrine victims for 20 to 25 cents on the dollar. If nothing else, this is a sign that CRT is pessimistically handicapping the outcome of the Peregrine customer recoveries -- the lowest price CRT paid for MF Global claims was 60 cents on the dollar."

Sounds like more greed.

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  #495 (permalink)
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researcher247 View Post
--------------------
Money is money; I get it.

However, BULLSHIT on your 1 post 'whatever'~~after the 'crisis' breaks.

Fact is that PFG forex was a bucket shop; don't you placate me--no way.

I speak for learned posters and yep; I live my online profile without regret and say what I have to say

I am a 27+ year full-time trader.

Don't post this bullshit propoganda (your 1 post)--I don't have any use--no bloody use for your 1 time 'toss-off' post. Nope.

I stand behind this post and if Big Mike has a problem with that; he and I will resolve it and I will honor his opinion.

You sir, with all due respect--appear to be full of shit.

peace

hedvig


Zelek11 View Post
I wanted to share a different side to the PFG story, one about some of the cool people that worked there. PFG was pretty big on trader education and so recently they started offering 12-week introductory courses. They were free if you signed up in advance. You didn't need to have an account with them to participate (I didn't have one). They first offered Introduction to Futures, and then earlier this year added Intro to Forex and Intro to Options. Curt Wagaman taught Futures and Options and Steve Nurre taught Forex.

I signed up, a little skeptical at first, for the Forex class which started in March and finished a few weeks ago. It was very much like a college class. Two lectures a week, 90-120 minutes each, along with homework and exams, if you wanted the completion certificate afterwards. The focus really was on education. There was some PFG cheerleading of course, but no pressure. We even had guest lectures from Jimmy Young and Bob Iaccino.

Anyway, the summer Futures class was to start on July 10th, the day after the fraud was discovered. And the summer Forex class was going to start on the 17th. There was of course no class on the 10th as the instructors were out of jobs. But during the week both guys got together and then held an informational webinar on Friday.

As educators they didn't want to let their students down, so they decided to hold 5 week courses...for free. Futures is going to start on the 17th and Forex on the 24th. I was stunned that these guys would work for free like this. The core material should remain intact because you won't have any info about PFG and no midterm and final exam reviews.

The other reason for a 5 week course is because, as Steve Nurre said in the webinar, "I don't know where I'll be in 6 weeks..."



There is a lot of money to be made in teaching trading courses. I don't know Steve or Curt and as long as I've been with PFG I never took advantage of their courses/education. But, they are probably just as much in shock as everyone else over this mess. They are probably just trying to "stay in the game" and do something to stay busy/involved until they figure out their next step. It is quite possible they might start their own educational program when the dust settles (and charge for it). Or, they might move to another brokerage and take their educational/teaching skills with them. I've taken advantage of "free" education over the years and also spent big $$ for others. Some were good, some were not as good. But for anyone who just lost their job, to be willing to spend their time (possibly without pay), to help others is not a bad thing. I'm sure PFG had some good employees and their lives have been turned upside down too. The action of these two guys (Steve and Curt) speak to their personal integrity and the actions of Wasendorf are not necessarily a reflection of everyone at PFG. (This is just my opinion.)

And, Hedvig, I'm upset over this too. This is the 4th time I've lost money with brokerages over the last 30 years through no fault of my own. Two of those times literally wiped me out so I had to start over more than once. But I appreciate reading the opinions of others, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

Thank you, Zelek11 for sharing.

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  #496 (permalink)
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brevco View Post
This is disturbing: "CRT Capital has already swooped in and offered to buy up customer claims from Peregrine victims for 20 to 25 cents on the dollar. If nothing else, this is a sign that CRT is pessimistically handicapping the outcome of the Peregrine customer recoveries -- the lowest price CRT paid for MF Global claims was 60 cents on the dollar."

Sounds like more greed.

@brevco, I think it is important to note the MF Global and PFG situations are entirely different beasts. Bear in mind MFGlobal used client funds to collateralize a massively leveraged $6b sovereign debt bet caused by a new CEO who wanted to turn MF Global into an investment bank.

They took advantage of legal re-hypothecation rules to use client funds to back the broker's own trades and borrowing. It was in the agreements clients signed with MF-Global. That is why nobody went to jail from MF Global. This loophole needs to be closed. My understanding is the brokerage borrowing rules allow firms to use client money to buy assets in their own name. Goldman and many other investment banks have been doing this for years so using an investment bank as your broker may not be a good idea.

So with MF Global you had money transferred to various institutions (such as $600m to JP Morgan) that could potentially be clawed back plus I assume liquidations of the sovereign debt position in itself. In other words at the time of liquidation the liquidator knew there were assets to recover.

PFG

With PFG it was blatant theft of client funds with what appears to be minimal assets to recover. The offer from CRT may appear to be generous in light of this as the risk of recovery appears to be much lower than MF Global. The lawsuits could keep this going for 5+ years . This is no different to any distressed debt sale situation. The price is generally low and then increases if more assets will be recovered than first thought.

Cheers
DJ


Last edited by djkiwi; July 15th, 2012 at 01:01 PM.
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  #497 (permalink)
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CME to Open Fund Set Up After MF Global for Peregrine Clients - Deal Journal - WSJ

Farmers will get some money back from the CME.

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  #498 (permalink)
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Russell Wasendorf Sr., CEO Of PFGBest, Faces 'Up To Decades In Prison'

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  #499 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post

PFG

With PFG it was blatant theft of client funds with what appears to be minimal assets to recover. The offer from CRT may appear to be generous in light of this as the risk of recovery appears to be much lower than MF Global. If anything the offer seems a bit high as the lawsuits could keep this going for 5+ years . This is no different to any distressed debt sale situation. The price is generally low and then increases if more assets will be recovered than first thought.

Cheers
DJ

I don't care what people write in a forum or what reporters write in their articles about the potential return of customer funds. I would rather believe James Koutoulas from the Commodity Customer Coalition, who helped MFGlobal customers get 80% back and who has said he will do the same for PFG customers. And in the interview on CFRN which I posted, he said that after having spoken with PFG employees, he believes that only with the frozen assets already in PFG accounts, we should expect to get anywhere from 55% - 70% of our funds returned. CRT Capital would not offer to buy debt for 20 - 25 cents on the dollar if they didn't think they could collect at least double from PFG.

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  #500 (permalink)
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He will never get out for the remainder of his natural life that's for sure But what's the point? Hes already so old. I really think they should bring back the death penalty for financial crimes of this magnitude.

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