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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)
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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)

  #121 (permalink)
Elite Member
Yellowknife, NT
 
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Why not have the bank balanced matched to the Brokers statements via a computer that then flags inconsistencies, In this day and age this is a "no brainer" Are these regulators still wearing green visors working on big black ledgers?

Midas

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  #122 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Jura View Post
I'm not sure how much this would help - aren't you increasing your risks in practice by spreading over a lot of brokerage firms? If you use this strategy, inadvertently you have to deposit money with smaller, privately held brokers (since there aren't that many brokers that work with each trading platform and cover the markets the trader is interested in).


Good point, Jura. If you used this approach, you would have to be careful to make sure that the different brokers were clearing firms themselves, or were associated with different clearing firms. Some of the small IBs have the same clearing firm, so that doesn't buy you extra protection. The big firms cover all the markets, so access to markets you need should not be a problem. And yes, you might have multiple platforms. I use Tradestation, Ninja Trader and CTS as platforms.

It is definitely easier to have all your accounts at one broker. But for me, having 3 brokers (now 2, I guess) saved my livelihood. At least for a little while...

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  #123 (permalink)
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my thoughts go to all affected traders, hopefully the backup account is ready to battle through those tough times. If one reads through this list closely, you come to realize there was at least a foreshadow building up...

First MFG(lobal), Now PFG: Who Is Next? | ZeroHedge

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  #124 (permalink)
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Munich, Germany
 
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That sucks...

.. I don't have an account with PFG, but feel sorry for all who have and I'm worried about the industry overall.

If regulators don't take serious action now (should have done last year already), the retail futures industry will go down the drain. Third-party auditors - which are not chosen and paid by the brokerage firms! - with monthly auditing would be the best way to go IMO. Even if it makes trading for all of us more expensive (e.g. through a fixed monthly fee all brokers to cover for the auditing costs of the industry, which they would surely pass to us clients).

The mentioned solution to pull money out of the account on a regular basis and only leave the minimum margin in makes only sense if you have already reached a "comfortable" account level. Otherwise compounding is not possible ... and I guess that's why most of us are in this business...

I have an account at TradeStation. They say they have excess SIPC insurance policy in place for futures and forex accounts with coverage up to $300m. However, I still do not feel secure given this recent news in such short period of time as I do not know whether the insurance will really work in case of fraud...

As far as I understand, the large investment banks don't provide brokerage services to small retail clients, right? Although fraud would be possible at such firms as well, I would FEEL more secure with my money at such big institutions (Goldman, Merrill, etc.)...

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  #125 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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karoshiman View Post
I have an account at TradeStation. They say they have excess SIPC insurance policy in place for futures and forex accounts with coverage up to $300m.


I have Tradestation account too. SIPC insurance does NOT protect futures and forex accounts. Only stock accounts. So, you are not as protected as you think.


edit: Karoshiman is referring to "extra SIPC insurance" that Tradestation has. Karoshiman's stmt is correct. I was referring to "SIPC insurance" only. There is a difference.


Last edited by kevinkdog; July 10th, 2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #126 (permalink)
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wavey View Post
my thoughts go to all affected traders, hopefully the backup account is ready to battle through those tough times. If one reads through this list closely, you come to realize there was at least a foreshadow building up...

First MFG(lobal), Now PFG: Who Is Next? | ZeroHedge

Expanding:


ZeroHedge
It seems the murky world of segregated accounts and FCMs is coming under the right amount of scrutiny once again. Atlas Ratings - who provide detailed ratings analysis on the entire spectrum of FCMs - had identified PFG Best in the bottom 5% of all FCMs (but with 4 other firms ranking lower on their proprietary rating scale - see below). As they note, almost across the board, PFG Best lagged dramatically in most categories. The only category where they did not have low marks was in regard to exchange penalties. The commodity exchanges had not penalized PFG very often for their clearing procedures or floor record-keeping, that much was done adequately within the company. Everything else we monitor showed weakness within the company:

Their net capital ratio and the trend of that ratio was extremely weak.
Their business is not diversified, they rely on minimal interest revenue, commissions and any proprietary trading.
Customer assets growth has been weak, healthy companies attract and retain new accounts.
PFG Best has had many CFTC & NFA penalties, these are major red flags. They failed to ID a massive ponzi scheme.
The big question - obviously - is who is next? The following table provides some clear indications of where the stress may just explode next.

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It would seem account holders at Pioneer Futures, Rosenthal Collins Group, Crossland, Forex Capital Markets, and Velocity Futures should be checking in on those funds?

See also:

http://www.atlasratings.com/2012/07/10/what-went-wrong-at-pfg-best/

Mike

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PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)-20120709_fcm1.png   PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)-20120709_fcm2.png   PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)-20120709_fcm3.png   PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)-20120709_fcm4.png   PFGBest Accounts Frozen (PFG scandal big thread)-20120709_fcm5_0.png  
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  #127 (permalink)
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This is incredibly alarming and one has to ask yourself some tough questions.

I have an account at Mirus clearing w/ Dorman. I chose Mirus because I heard great things from this forum and another trading room.

As a Canadian customer, I feel more worried than ever. Funny though that the funds I wired were to BMO Harris Bank, BMO being the Bank of Montreal.

I wish a Canadian bank would take care of these funds. We SUPPOSEDLY have better regulations.

We can find the Higgs Boson, but we can't segregate funds....

Truly a travesty.


Jungian.

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  #128 (permalink)
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Yikes

In Mikes post above...

Look who is two rungs below Peregrine..

YIKES!!!!

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  #129 (permalink)
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Munich, Germany
 
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kevinkdog View Post
I have Tradestation account too. SIPC insurance does NOT protect futures and forex accounts. Only stock accounts. So, you are not as protected as you think.


I did not refer to the SIPC insurance, but the EXCESS SIPC insurance, which is an additional insurance policy. I asked about this also in the tradestation community and a TS rep confirmed it.

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  #130 (permalink)
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I never received an email from them either. I called this morning and they said it was sent about 3:00 yesterday. If it weren't for futures.io (formerly BMT), I would not have known!!

THANK YOU Big Mike for keeping me informed!

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