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What is best broker for intermediate term futures trader?
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What is best broker for intermediate term futures trader?

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Fidelity active trader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Fidelity, Infinity futures
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Posts: 423 since Mar 2012
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What is best broker for intermediate term futures trader?

Hi,
I am looking for intermediate term futures trading using primarily daily charts. I am wondering what is the best broker and data feed for that. I assume most people here are intraday traders?
Since this is intermediate term, I think it is high preferable to have the broker host server side OCO orders. In addition, a lot of historical data is needed for the data feed, and the data feed needs to support TPO analysis. I doubt if there is such a broker/data feed at all?
As far as I know, IB and Optimus trading group provides server side OCOs. However I heard IB's data feed is pretty bad, as well as their customer service. I did some search on Optimus and looks like the same.
I researched on intraday trading and looks like Infinity futures is quite good. I tried their demo and it looks good. Also their customer service is quite nice. But they don't provide server side OCOs, so it will be inconvenient to do intermediate term trading. I can certainly rent a server and let it run 24/7 but that just sounds like a headache.
So I am wondering if anyone could recommend a broker/data feed?

Thanks!

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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Rithmic (Optimus Futures) is one of the best broker data feeds. There is no backfill with Rithmic, however. IB's data feed is terrible.

The best data feed you can get as a retail trader is arguably DTN IQFeed. It has extensive backfill, and an excellent reputation for stability and performance. It is compatible with most major futures platforms such as NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart, Investor RT, and others.

If you want the best, you need to choose:

a) a broker
b) a data feed
c) a platform

Trying to get a broker that also has a good data feed means you will make sacrifices. Same thing if you try to get a platform provided by your broker.

As for OCO orders, IB has native OCO support as does Rithmic. But some platforms implement the Rithmic OCO's differently, so check around. I don't think you mentioned what platform you intend to use.

Reliable execution backends include TradingTechnologies (ie: Velocity Futures), Rithmic (Optimus Futures), Zen Fire (Mirus Futures), CQG (Velocity Futures and others), plus InteractiveBrokers. There are others, but these are the most popular on the forum.

CQG Trader and X_Trader have extensive server-side capabilities.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
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3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
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  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Fidelity active trader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Fidelity, Infinity futures
Favorite Futures: futures, stocks
 
Posts: 423 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 71 given, 202 received

Thanks a lot, Mike!
You are right. I did not mention which platform to use. I need one that is reliable and can do TPO analysis.
Maybe I am asking for too much at one time, so let's sort it out one by one.
1. Which brokers provide server side OCOs? This will narrow down quite a bit. Then I can research to see which have good reviews.
2. After the broker is chosen, then I can start looking at platforms and data feeds. One thing I like Infinity futures is that they have platform and data feed all in one place. But since they don't support server side OCO I would have to rule them out.
3. You said Rithmic doesn't have backfill? So even if I load up a daily chart, it will not show me the historical data?



Big Mike View Post
Rithmic (Optimus Futures) is one of the best broker data feeds. There is no backfill with Rithmic, however. IB's data feed is terrible.

The best data feed you can get as a retail trader is arguably DTN IQFeed. It has extensive backfill, and an excellent reputation for stability and performance. It is compatible with most major futures platforms such as NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart, Investor RT, and others.

If you want the best, you need to choose:

a) a broker
b) a data feed
c) a platform

Trying to get a broker that also has a good data feed means you will make sacrifices. Same thing if you try to get a platform provided by your broker.

As for OCO orders, IB has native OCO support as does Rithmic. But some platforms implement the Rithmic OCO's differently, so check around. I don't think you mentioned what platform you intend to use.

Reliable execution backends include TradingTechnologies (ie: Velocity Futures), Rithmic (Optimus Futures), Zen Fire (Mirus Futures), CQG (Velocity Futures and others), plus InteractiveBrokers. There are others, but these are the most popular on the forum.

CQG Trader and X_Trader have extensive server-side capabilities.

Mike


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  #5 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
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muscleman View Post
Thanks a lot, Mike!
You are right. I did not mention which platform to use. I need one that is reliable and can do TPO analysis.
Maybe I am asking for too much at one time, so let's sort it out one by one.
1. Which brokers provide server side OCOs? This will narrow down quite a bit. Then I can research to see which have good reviews.
2. After the broker is chosen, then I can start looking at platforms and data feeds. One thing I like Infinity futures is that they have platform and data feed all in one place. But since they don't support server side OCO I would have to rule them out.
3. You said Rithmic doesn't have backfill? So even if I load up a daily chart, it will not show me the historical data?

1) Again, OCO is dependent on not just the broker, but the platform. I mentioned in my first post.
2) For TPO you could use MarketDelta, Investor/RT (I think?), Sierra Chart or CTS T4 - they all have them built in. You could also use NinjaTrader if you are OK with using a third party indicator to make it happen. NT is the most extensible of all of them.
3) Correct. TT, Rithmic and Zen Fire do not have backfill. Some platforms provide the backfill, such as Sierra Chart and in some situations, NinjaTrader (to Rithmic and Zen Fire customers, not to TT customers). CQG has backfill. And of course IQFeed.

Going back to #1, you'll have to consider it in line with the platform and then ask the question with both of them in the mix. As an example, I believe that NinjaTrader does not implement the server-side OCO that Rithmic supports, but Rithmic's own R Trader does. But NT is capable of server-side OCO, because it does it with IB for example.

I could be wrong. I don't use Rithmic, IB or NinjaTrader, so am just going from what I've read on the forum from others.

I think you are approaching this a bit backwards by trying to pick the broker first. Pick the platform you want first. That is what you are interfacing with 99.9% of the time. Then pick the data feed that works with that platform, such as IQFeed. Then pick the best broker that also works with that platform.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: IB/IQFeed
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 110 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 54 given, 89 received

CTS T4 does server-side OCO with Sierra Chart. If you are using Infinity AT charts that's Sierra. You can go to CTS website and look for brokers that support CTS. Deep Discount Trading is one of the brokers that I use.

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  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multichart DT
Broker/Data: MB Trading
Favorite Futures: Fx
 
torroray's Avatar
 
Posts: 273 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 52 given, 59 received


Big Mike View Post
1) TT, Rithmic and Zen Fire do not have backfill.

Mike

Can you just leave your PC on to collect data if you dont want to spend on data feed?

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  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Fidelity active trader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Fidelity, Infinity futures
Favorite Futures: futures, stocks
 
Posts: 423 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 71 given, 202 received

For platforms, I am ok with Sierra or NT. I am also ok with using Sierra or NT for just charting analysis, and use the broker's own platform for trading. NT is good because I heard if I become an Elite member here, I can get the plugins for it to do TPO charts. But I can also consider Sierra chart too. Market Delta is simply too expensive to be considered.
For brokers, I heard IB is quite bad with customer service. I want one with really good customer service and good trade execution.
For data feed, I really need backfill, because I am going to trade on daily and weekly charts. I doubt if any data feeds would provide long enough tick data to build a long term TPO chart? As I understand, TPO charts are built on tick data. And I prefer that the broker provides data because this would save me data feed cost.

So given the previous posts, looks like I should look at velocity futures and deep discount futures first.



Big Mike View Post
1) Again, OCO is dependent on not just the broker, but the platform. I mentioned in my first post.
2) For TPO you could use MarketDelta, Investor/RT (I think?), Sierra Chart or CTS T4 - they all have them built in. You could also use NinjaTrader if you are OK with using a third party indicator to make it happen. NT is the most extensible of all of them.
3) Correct. TT, Rithmic and Zen Fire do not have backfill. Some platforms provide the backfill, such as Sierra Chart and in some situations, NinjaTrader (to Rithmic and Zen Fire customers, not to TT customers). CQG has backfill. And of course IQFeed.

Going back to #1, you'll have to consider it in line with the platform and then ask the question with both of them in the mix. As an example, I believe that NinjaTrader does not implement the server-side OCO that Rithmic supports, but Rithmic's own R Trader does. But NT is capable of server-side OCO, because it does it with IB for example.

I could be wrong. I don't use Rithmic, IB or NinjaTrader, so am just going from what I've read on the forum from others.

I think you are approaching this a bit backwards by trying to pick the broker first. Pick the platform you want first. That is what you are interfacing with 99.9% of the time. Then pick the data feed that works with that platform, such as IQFeed. Then pick the best broker that also works with that platform.

Mike


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  #9 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Oslo, Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Lornz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,198 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 500 given, 1,235 received

The best solution would be Investor/RT with DTN Market Access. Linn Software Partners - DTN Market Access .

IRT is MarketDelta without the Footprint charts, has the best MP of all the retail platforms. There are a lot of videos to help you get started and the language is very much like Excel formulas. Investor/RT - Homework, Research, Statistics

IB does server-side OCO, so does CQG and CTS.

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  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle, WA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Fidelity active trader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Fidelity, Infinity futures
Favorite Futures: futures, stocks
 
Posts: 423 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 71 given, 202 received



Big Mike View Post
1) Again, OCO is dependent on not just the broker, but the platform. I mentioned in my first post.
2) For TPO you could use MarketDelta, Investor/RT (I think?), Sierra Chart or CTS T4 - they all have them built in. You could also use NinjaTrader if you are OK with using a third party indicator to make it happen. NT is the most extensible of all of them.
3) Correct. TT, Rithmic and Zen Fire do not have backfill. Some platforms provide the backfill, such as Sierra Chart and in some situations, NinjaTrader (to Rithmic and Zen Fire customers, not to TT customers). CQG has backfill. And of course IQFeed.

Going back to #1, you'll have to consider it in line with the platform and then ask the question with both of them in the mix. As an example, I believe that NinjaTrader does not implement the server-side OCO that Rithmic supports, but Rithmic's own R Trader does. But NT is capable of server-side OCO, because it does it with IB for example.

I could be wrong. I don't use Rithmic, IB or NinjaTrader, so am just going from what I've read on the forum from others.

I think you are approaching this a bit backwards by trying to pick the broker first. Pick the platform you want first. That is what you are interfacing with 99.9% of the time. Then pick the data feed that works with that platform, such as IQFeed. Then pick the best broker that also works with that platform.

Mike

I just made a call to Velocity futures, and they told me they cannot do server side OCOs, which is confusing to me, and their customer service representative's attitude seems very cold.

I think I am getting the subject over complicated here.
So maybe I should ask for a recommendation of a package.
I want a broker who's customer service is good and trade execution is good. And I want a platform and a data feed that can work with that broker for server side OCO orders. I am ok if one platform is used for charting, and I need to install another broker platform for order execution.
So would you please recommend such a package for me?

For example, I know NT 7 supports IB data feed, so I can use NT 7 for charting (and also place orders if I purchase it), and use IB's own TWS for server side OCO order submission. So this would be a package that works for me, except that IB's data feed sucks and IB's customer service sucks.

With so many platforms and brokers and data feeds around, there must be one good package that works for me?

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