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AMP Futures / AMP Global Review
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AMP Futures / AMP Global Review

  #311 (permalink)
Elite Member
Helsinki, Finland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: SC/CQG, API/Rithmic, TWS
Broker/Data: AMP, Interactivebrokers
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cogito View Post
May I ask what made you switch from CQG to Rithmic?
What advantages with Rithmic?

Im also developing/doing some semi-HFT and Rithmic can offer an algorithmic trading library for C++ in Windows and Linux (C# version available too) where you can reach as low as below 1ms tick-to-trade executions (pls do not confuse this measure to a networks speed it is a real execution speed including overhead from platform, your application/server and execution times in exchanges additionally to your network speed) on their platform (w/ co-located server). My system is not optimized for this speed. For me it is enough to get below 10ms TTT times BUT on the robust way. I do not know any other platform which can offer this speed by only $100/mo (no matter you do 1k or 50k sides / month). They also have a gateway here in Europe which makes it a good manual trading choice too !

CQG is not bad either but in my case the Rithmic is better in quality / money.

btw.
What comes to a manual trading Rithmic can offer a front end too but to be honest it is a way behind from it's competitors. I recommend and use Sierra Charts. IMO SC is definitely the best front end for trading including everything you will ever need in your trading career. And again this app is also on the top of the quality / money.


Last edited by Scalpguy; November 15th, 2015 at 05:00 AM.
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  #312 (permalink)
Just a boy
Auckland, New Zealand
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Whatever moves in my timezone
 
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Scalpguy View Post
Thanks for the context

Now I understand how those complaints basically are working.

Ive been their customer some years now and I have not had any major technical issues with them (first I was on CQG and now on Rithmic) but been little a bit worrying all the time because they are so small. Company capital seems to be only few millions so anything unexpected may take them out of business and quick... or is there any other funds backing up their business ?!? Would like to see their balance sheet.

Here in Finland every company (ltd or corp no matter is it public or not) must reveal their income statement and balance sheets so everybody can get a little a bit better picture how the company is performing and doing their busines. How is it in the US can I view their balance sheets (even they are not a public company) ? Any requlations from NFA or others in this ?

@Scalpguy

If I understand correctly you would like to see their Balance Sheet?

No problem they post their monthly balance sheet and Annual Financial Report right here:

CFTC Rule 1.55 Reporting - AMP

There is no separate Income Statement, but I suspect that is because the business is effectively a sole trader and the owner is reporting the net profit in his personal tax return ie the profit is probably 100% taken out of the business.

But it is easy to check - just look at the change in the Ownership Equity in the B/S from one month to the next (as you can view the historical monthly reports).

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  #313 (permalink)
Just a boy
Auckland, New Zealand
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Whatever moves in my timezone
 
Posts: 1,803 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 3,165 given, 1,362 received



cogito View Post
Let me put this in context.

First a disclaimer. Couple of months ago I was looking for a discount futures broker. So, read this entire thread and decided to open an account with AMP. I did not have any issues with AMP as of date.

You are looking at the complaint. Complaints have allegations which may or may not be true. Anyone can file a complaint. Allegations in the complaint are not deemed true unless a judge/jury or appropriate authority rules on them.

AMP alleged several wrong doings on the part of BMT in its complaint, but the judge dismissed complaint. So, those allegations in the complaint are just allegations, nothing more. In the same way, the allegations in NFA's complaint against AMP are just allegations because NFA agreed to settle for minuscule charge. We should not read too much into that complaint when NFA itself dropped most of the charges.

I saw this NFA complaint, AMP response and the settlement before opening an account with them. Personally, I think if NFA's charges had any solid proof, NFA would not have settled so easily. That just my opinion.

Also, I looked at several other futures brokers record with NFA. To my surprise most of them had violations and paid much higher penalty including some big names.

@cogito
Well said.

@Scalpguy

As cogito said, other well known futures brokers (certainly the ones retail traders like us would deal with) have had violations as well. Some have had several violations. Most have resulted in penalties far in excess of AMP's.

If I am not mistaken, this was AMP's FIRST violation ever and I am sure they have taken it hard.

As we all know from running any sort of business, it is hard to do everything right, all of the time (health & safety at work is a good one - doesn't matter how much effort you put in as as business owner, if one of your employees has an accident the authorities will find a way to blame the employer).

One factor to bear in mind when considering the adequacy of AMP's capital, is what do they do with Customer Segregated Funds. Firstly AMP state they do not do any trading on their own behalf (proprietory). Secondly they do not invest/trade/speculate with customer segregated funds - as I understand it they only put them on deposit at a bank.

This can all be read here: http://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=bd5915db-d413-4abd-b64d-0f4409de028d - see last paragraph just before 'Material Risks' section and also 'Relevant Financial data' section for comment confirming no proprietory trading.

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  #314 (permalink)
Elite Member
Helsinki, Finland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: SC/CQG, API/Rithmic, TWS
Broker/Data: AMP, Interactivebrokers
Favorite Futures: FDAX, 6J
 
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Posts: 132 since Jul 2010
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steve2222 View Post
@Scalpguy

If I understand correctly you would like to see their Balance Sheet?

No problem they post their monthly balance sheet and Annual Financial Report right here:

CFTC Rule 1.55 Reporting - AMP

There is no separate Income Statement, but I suspect that is because the business is effectively a sole trader and the owner is reporting the net profit in his personal tax return ie the profit is probably 100% taken out of the business.

But it is easy to check - just look at the change in the Ownership Equity in the B/S from one month to the next (as you can view the historical monthly reports).

In the case of brokers the income statement is not very relevant document in this issue but thanks for the balance sheet link. It seems it is a requirement by the CFTC so every registered broker have to give it I quess.

People should view the broker's balance sheets without the customer segregated funds to see the real finnancial condition of the company. In the case of AMP it looks it is a very thin company. We are talking assets of silly couple of millions Please see attached list (ordered by the adj.net capital) they are the 4th smallest firm in the business.

Anyway. It seems I will keep the account active but still so much worried that I do not keep cash more than peanuts with them and still looking another alternatives too. Advantage futures maybe ?

The attached and "order edited" financial data document is produced by the CFTC and the original home page is
http://www.cftc.gov/MarketReports/FinancialDataforFCMs/index.htm

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xlsx fcmdata0915-xls-Order_AdNetCap.xlsx (32.6 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by Scalpguy; November 15th, 2015 at 09:33 AM.
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  #315 (permalink)
Elite Member
Helsinki, Finland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: SC/CQG, API/Rithmic, TWS
Broker/Data: AMP, Interactivebrokers
Favorite Futures: FDAX, 6J
 
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Posts: 132 since Jul 2010
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steve2222 View Post
One factor to bear in mind when considering the adequacy of AMP's capital, is what do they do with Customer Segregated Funds. Firstly AMP state they do not do any trading on their own behalf (proprietory). Secondly they do not invest/trade/speculate with customer segregated funds - as I understand it they only put them on deposit at a bank.

This can all be read here: http://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=bd5915db-d413-4abd-b64d-0f4409de028d - see last paragraph just before 'Material Risks' section and also 'Relevant Financial data' section for comment confirming no proprietory trading.

Thank you very much for this information.

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  #316 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Delawer View Post
Im not trying to annoying or blame anything. Is only a review, I also comment good points, and even in other forums of executions. I wasnt really hard (for instance sometimes after I switched off and relog, some orders I never deployed were there and dont think is a platform problem). All the review is TRUE. Obviously there are some thoughs, couse this is a broker review thread, and appart from te fatcs, there are some thoughs that are other trades wich have to judge by themselves.
Dont take it to the personal side.

Im now trying IQFeed will post futher review.

You are blaming and misinforming.
Not one here takes anything personally when discussed as professionals, however, your points about your trading execution and platform can not be taken seriously, when you have no grasp of order execution, order flow on a regulated exchange and the fact that winning or losing does not depend on you.

I highly suggest that you learn the futures market mechanism before you share your experience with the next platform, broker and data feed.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Last edited by mattz; November 15th, 2015 at 10:55 AM.
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  #317 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
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Posts: 1,907 since Sep 2010
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Quoting 
Not sure how our monies are protected with futures traders. @mattz can you shed some light on this subject?

The funds are segregated from the operation of your FCM and IB.

This is just a general statement, and I am not endorsing one FCM over another, rather just a macro perspective.
Also, this is NOT legal advice of where you should keep your funds. Do your own due diligence.

I have observed from my vast experience with FCMs that in the interest of time and business when fines occur, you settle, pay the fine and take corrective steps to rectify and improve the operation.
If everyone looked at their own FCMs records, they would see if the FCM was in business for many years, there would be fines from the NFA and/or other regulatory agencies. FCMs are complex operations and there are many specific guides and regulations that need to be followed. You take the regulatory findings seriously and implement as per recommendations.

Also, it is important to read the answer that the FCM provided to any allegation, as it also gives you the chance to see how seriously your FCM address these findings.

I hope this helps.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #318 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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It should be noted that @mattz uses AMP as an FCM in his business, keep that in mind when reading his responses in this thread.

Full circle it seems, as the first posts by AMP years ago were making fun of Optimus here, and now Matt has been forced to use them due to the events following NT Brokerage and NT platform decisions.

This is my opinion, you can form your own.

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  #319 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Big Mike View Post
It should be noted that @mattz uses AMP as an FCM in his business, keep that in mind when reading his responses in this thread.

Full circle it seems, as the first posts by AMP years ago were making fun of Optimus here, and now Matt has been forced to use them due to the events following NT Brokerage and NT platform decisions.

This is my opinion, you can form your own.

Sent from my phone

Yes, we use AMP clearing, amongst 4 others clearing FCM as an IIB.
Yes, we were made fun of which is rather sad, but AMP also took many steps to help us as our FCM when Vision was no longer operational. Their staff has been thus far extremely helpful to us.
They just do their job, and are far removed from all the personal battles that occur in this business.
Yes, The NT brokerage had tremendous affect our decision to become an IIB, especially the day they turned into a brokerage popups were appearing on the software to switch to their brokerage.
This is after many years of mutual respect and understanding.

My choices as far clearing today reflect customers needs, and they stand above my personal feelings.

You have always respected people's choices even if they oppose to yours.
I was asked a question about seg funds and answered it with a general statement without mention one FCM or another.
We have been allies for many years, and you know how dedicated I am towards servicing people right.
Our customers are distributed amongst all the FCMs specifically according to customers wants and needs.

I appreciate your understanding.

Thank you,

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #320 (permalink)
Elite Member
LEON / SPAIN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Bookmap
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mattz View Post
You are blaming and misinforming.
Not one here takes anything personally when discussed as professionals, however, your points about your trading execution and platform can not be taken seriously, when you have no grasp of order execution, order flow on a regulated exchange and the fact that winning or losing does not depend on you.

I highly suggest that you learn the futures market mechanism before you share your experience with the next platform, broker and data feed.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

This was one of my sources: http://www.fca.org.uk/static/pubs/guidance/gc11_23.pdf
Besides, I have been told than some brokers (I didnt say couse its something I cant proof and dont know if is the case of AMP) held customers orders for example in the ES (not in the SP); wich means those could not been traded in the exchange.
About order execution I know CME rules and impled orders about (dont know if is enough).
And last, if a maker maker take a look at client orders, that means that could trade against them.

Correct me if Im wrong in anything and will take into account for further analisys.

Tx

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