The Greatest Weakness - Psychology and Money Management | futures.io
futures.io futures trading


The Greatest Weakness
Started: by George Views / Replies:23,765 / 107
Last Reply: Attachments:3

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 3  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

The Greatest Weakness

  #31 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 426 received


Counterplay View Post
Yes.

I've thought for some time now that the best(if not only) way to become a good trader was to blow out your account as quickly as possible.

I speak from experience.

I have never understood this statement and this sounds counter productive to me. How does blowing your account the best way to becoming a profitable trader? This sounds like it is the best way to become a losing trader.....lol!! The best way to become a profitable trader is to have a proven back tested methodology and build confidence by trading consistently on sim. Then trade live with 1 contract and be consistent then add size as you improve.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to itrade2win for this post:
 
  #32 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philly, Pa
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES, ZB
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,870 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 6,243 given, 31,016 received


Counterplay View Post
It builds detachment and helps to take emotion out of the process.(At least it did with me.) It reinforces that you need to ALWAYS follow your rules. Also, I don't believe you can truly respect the market(which is always right) until you experience one or more catastrophic losses.

That's like saying you need cut an arm or leg off, before you can appreciate how dangerous a chain saw can be.

Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money. Ed Seykota


Last edited by tigertrader; January 23rd, 2011 at 01:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to tigertrader for this post:
 
  #33 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 426 received



Counterplay View Post
It builds detachment and helps to take emotion out of the process.(At least it did with me.) It reinforces that you need to ALWAYS follow your rules. Also, I don't believe you can truly respect the market(which is always right) until you experience one or more catastrophic losses.

You can never take emotion out of trading unless you are not human or trading an automated system. It's how you handle your emotions is the key to success in trading, sports or any competitive event. Until one understands who they are as a trader and have the feel for the markets they will never be a consistent profitable trader.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to itrade2win for this post:
 
  #34 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Kinetick Ninja Trader <7>
Broker/Data: Ninja & IB
Favorite Futures: YM & Equities & Options & Mutual Funds
 
Posts: 174 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 80 received


itrade2win View Post
You can never take emotion out of trading unless you are not human or trading an automated system.

You can however set a daily loss limit on your account to prevent over/revenge/account explosion type trading.

What is super humorous is the new Ninja Site which shows an image of an older man under the splash screen and a young dude on semi and fully automated. I guess they're making a comment on trigger control, or pin control considering that mouse is more like a hand grenade.

Shit, if you follow your system you should know that over time you are going to at least break even, the question is:

are you in control enough to know when to "shut er down" or do you have to figure a work around for your brain

If Brain < Optimal Condition = Shut Er Down

Reply With Quote
 
  #35 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 426 received

Futures Edge on FIO
Trading is about being involved with a lot of risk and controlling yourself (Emotions). And if you can control yourself, you're going to be successful. That is your challenge.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to itrade2win for this post:
 
  #36 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 426 received


mainstream View Post
You can however set a daily loss limit on your account to prevent over/revenge/account explosion type trading.

What is super humorous is the new Ninja Site which shows an image of an older man under the splash screen and a young dude on semi and fully automated. I guess they're making a comment on trigger control, or pin control considering that mouse is more like a hand grenade.

Shit, if you follow your system you should know that over time you are going to at least break even, the question is:

are you in control enough to know when to "shut er down" or do you have to figure a work around for your brain

If Brain < Optimal Condition = Shut Er Down

This is more along the lines of following your rules than trading with emotions.

Reply With Quote
 
  #37 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philly, Pa
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES, ZB
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,870 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 6,243 given, 31,016 received


itrade2win View Post
Trading is about being involved with a lot of risk and controlling yourself (Emotions). And if you can control yourself, you're going to be successful. That is your challenge.

Absolutely correct!

Look at some of the greatest athletes in sports and you will find some of the most competitive and emotional individuals. Lance Armstrong, Tiger Woods, and Michael Jordan are all intense athletes that coincidentally, hate to lose. Ironically, they also, all lack personal discipline, and seek external stimulation and a high degree of risk in their personal lives. Yet they are able to channel their emotions when it is required of them, and perform at an elite level.

The important ingredient in success is not emotional dampening per se, but the enhancement of concentration and focus. That is what enables people to act with sustained purpose and stay rooted in their goals. The reason why most traders aren't successful, is they pursue short term pleasures, ( and avoid short term discomfort) at the expense of longer term rewards. Develop the character trait of patience, along with the ability to positively channel you emotions, and you will have at least one of the keys to the kingdom.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to tigertrader for this post:
 
  #38 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Kinetick Ninja Trader <7>
Broker/Data: Ninja & IB
Favorite Futures: YM & Equities & Options & Mutual Funds
 
Posts: 174 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 80 received


itrade2win View Post
This is more along the lines of following your rules than trading with emotions.


Is it? You have zero subjectivity in your system?

Reply With Quote
 
  #39 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,663 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,045 given, 80,714 received


itrade2win View Post
You can never take emotion out of trading unless you are not human or trading an automated system.

Emotion is present even when trading an automated system. How many traders have developed an automated system, started using it, entered a drawdown, and then stopped the system only later to see it recover? That's an emotional response. Same for "overriding" the system and telling it to skip a trade because you thought you knew better.

Like you said, balancing the emotion or perfecting your emotions is really the key with trading. Whether it be a discretionary trader or an automated one, you have to still deal with controlling your emotions and focus on making balanced, educated decisions.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #40 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,663 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,045 given, 80,714 received



itrade2win View Post
This is more along the lines of following your rules than trading with emotions.


mainstream View Post
Is it? You have zero subjectivity in your system?

Another reminder there is no such thing as "black and white" in trading. No right or wrong. Sure, there is profit and there is loss, but think about this for a moment...

A trader decides to follow his rules, NO MATTER WHAT, because in the past he has "learned" that not following his rules has cost him dearly. You can guess what is likely to end up with this trader -- he may blow up his account.

Why?

For any number of reasons. Just a few: 1) His method wasn't profitable, 2) He didn't realize he wasn't truly executing on his rules correctly, 3) His rules were impossible to be correctly executed.... etc, etc.

No black and white. No right and wrong.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that execution is where a lot of traders go wrong. They lose focus and are always in constant search of some external factor, whether it be an indicator, a trading room, system, their wife, their lack of sleep, whatever --- always some external factor to blame for their poor trading. But hard, fast "rules" like "follow the rules", or "remove emotion", those things don't work. I'm speaking from experience

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:

Reply



futures.io > > > The Greatest Weakness

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

Anthony Drager: Pulling the trigger with confidence

Elite only
 

Leo Murphy: The Art and Science of Technical Analysis

Elite only
 

FuturesTrader71: Ask Me Anything

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How the Greatest Depression Will Start Zondor News and Current Events 3 July 27th, 2011 02:50 PM
NT Major Weakness sprdtrader NinjaTrader 30 March 19th, 2011 10:40 AM
US Standard of Living in Peril From Dollar's Weakness: Zell Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 March 3rd, 2011 11:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.

no new posts
Page generated 2017-01-24 in 0.14 seconds with 21 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.161.249.135