Going Beyond Psychology to make Winning Trades and Nice Profits - futures io
futures io



Going Beyond Psychology to make Winning Trades and Nice Profits


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Shivaya with 41 posts (133 thanks)
    2. looks_two rtrade with 13 posts (8 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Anagami with 9 posts (5 thanks)
    4. looks_4 zt379 with 8 posts (8 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one tigertrader with 4.2 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Shivaya with 3.2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 jstnbrg with 2.8 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Surly with 2.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 22,013 views
    2. thumb_up 224 thanks given
    3. group 27 followers
    1. forum 125 posts
    2. attach_file 6 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Going Beyond Psychology to make Winning Trades and Nice Profits

(login for full post details)
  #101 (permalink)
 Massive l 
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,012 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,698 given, 4,189 received


rtrade View Post
"To whom are you directing your requests for help? Now, because
you do not know yourself you do not realize that every single
second of your day, of your life, you're asking for help and
the reason you do that is because there's a certain agitating
part of you that is dissatisfied, that's unhappy, and you want
relief from its persistent torment.

As a matter of a fact, you are always, and listen to the way I
put this now, you are always, even right now as your hearing
this talk, you're in the state of prayer, of request, of asking,
of seeking, of desperately wanting to go somewhere to take yourself
away from where you presently are.

That's cool man. I say stop asking and start doing.
Don't get me wrong...
I screw up a lot but I learn my lesson every time (or at least try!)
Keep punching.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #102 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received


monpere View Post
Understanding why you are taking the trade at this point should be irrelevant, you already know the reason, you spent 2500 hours figuring out the reason. I will tell you the reason why. 2 reasons, greed and fear.

The answer is, knowing the historical win percentage of your method, and trusting those stats. The result is the removal of the fear and greed, the removal of the bulk of the psychological entanglements with each and every single trade.

Monpere, Good comments. You are absolutely correct in your understanding and everything you says makes total sense.

Denise Shull in working with billion dollar hedge fund traders learned our human brain has difficulty in working with 'probability'. Your answer of 'knowing historical win percentage' is rejected by most brains according to the latest neuroscience studies. Her extensive research has confirmed this. Believe me, I too was a probability believer. Now I am inclined to agree she is right and onto something.

I met a trader at a seminar who tested the system, was convinced to 'follow the system' He accepted that most failed because of 'fear and greed' and did not take all the trades. He was disciplined. He took every trade. He trusted and had faith in the 'numbers'. 1000's of hours of study.

Then he said, "I lost my account, I lost my house, and I lost my wife. But I took every trade. I'm here to say that is not the answer." Now it was obviously a garbage system. Good money management will always safe us from those. But new traders do not know this yet.

Probability looks to be all we need accept. That's why many traders move to auto-trading. But then the auto trader has to decide on which system and market to trade. Usually what was great last quarter is junk the next. So back to analysis.

Attentiveness flowering into awareness brings me to a point where I can see an unwillingness to change and do something about it. A casual attitude to a trade that gets me in trouble. Like you say after 1000's of hours of analysis an auto style no-think trading occurs where you just click and manage. This is the sweet state and a valuable one for all aspects of our life.

Sweetness is our inner necessity. If that is not satisfied, nothing is. Trading sweetly is what I love. Awareness of my emotions as data to be analysed helps accomplish this.

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #103 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus, IB
Trading: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,339 received


Shivaya View Post
Monpere, Good comments. You are absolutely correct in your understanding and everything you says makes total sense.

Denise Shull in working with billion dollar hedge fund traders learned our human brain has difficulty in working with 'probability'. Your answer of 'knowing historical win percentage' is rejected by most brains according to the latest neuroscience studies. Her extensive research has confirmed this. Believe me, I too was a probability believer. Now I am inclined to agree she is right and onto something.

I met a trader at a seminar who tested the system, was convinced to 'follow the system' He accepted that most failed because of 'fear and greed' and did not take all the trades. He was disciplined. He took every trade. He trusted and had faith in the 'numbers'. 1000's of hours of study.

Then he said, "I lost my account, I lost my house, and I lost my wife. But I took every trade. I'm here to say that is not the answer." Now it was obviously a garbage system. Good money management will always safe us from those. But new traders do not know this yet.

Probability looks to be all we need accept. That's why many traders move to auto-trading. But then the auto trader has to decide on which system and market to trade. Usually what was great last quarter is junk the next. So back to analysis.

Attentiveness flowering into awareness brings me to a point where I can see an unwillingness to change and do something about it. A casual attitude to a trade that gets me in trouble. Like you say after 1000's of hours of analysis an auto style no-think trading occurs where you just click and manage. This is the sweet state and a valuable one for all aspects of our life.

Sweetness is our inner necessity. If that is not satisfied, nothing is. Trading sweetly is what I love. Awareness of my emotions as data to be analysed helps accomplish this.

Shivaya


True, if you have a bad system, taking every trade, or cherry picking them will not make it a good system. But, if you have a decent system, taking every trade will pretty much guarantee you to make money, just as much as cherry picking trades of a decent system, will most of the time kill it's performance, because you are no longer trading that system, you randomly picking setups from the system. If you find a mechanical system that backtests well, the sure fire way to kill it, is to try cherry pick it.

I disagree that many traders move to auto trading. Auto trading is by far the absolute minority in retail trading, because for one, it is not the psychological norm. Most people psychologically want to feel they have a hand in every trade decisions that they make, it is our nature. 2nd, not too many traders are programmers, and that is a huge barrier. 3rd most commercial auto traders are black boxes so a trader buying it has no idea what the system does. 4th auto trading is not well regarded in the retail trading community. As an example, look at all the threads on this forum, you will only need one hand to count the number of threads on mechanical or auto trading. When we see the numbers of 95% failure in retail trading, it is virtually 100% discretionary trading. Perhaps those numbers would change, if psychologically people where more inclined to trade mechanically, I don't know.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to monpere for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #104 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus, IB
Trading: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,339 received


Silver Dragon View Post
monpere, I think you misunderstood the latter part of my post because it sounds like we are saying the same thing: eliminate greed and fear and trade on what you see and what you know. I was merely sharing a example of why a trader might place a trade. One was right decision and the second was the wrong decision. Personally mindfulness has helped me deal with greed and fear when it arises. Your answer to overcome greed and fear is to focus on stats. Same end goal, different ways of getting there.

Its apparent you are a very organized and analytical thinker vs myself which is very analytical / holistic thinker. We are two different brain types. To try to apply your method to me is like fitting a round peg in a square hole. I could do it but I would not be very good at it.

You might be interested in this: I do a lot of team building in my day job, and one of things you have to consider is brain types. Not everybody thinks the same therefore everyone learns differently. We use a test to determine brain types; check out HBDI on google, it is brain dominance analysis. Based on your postings you appear to be a blue/green thinker (Analytical / Organized) where I am blue/yellow (analytical / holistic). See attached graph for the 4 brain types.

SD

Interesting. In your professional opinion, which brain type do you think lends itself best to trading?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #105 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
Legendary Data Wizard!!!
Cincinnati Ohio
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TastyWorks
Broker: TastyWorks
Trading: FX, Stocks, Options
 
Silver Dragon's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,011 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 5,770 given, 4,875 received


monpere View Post
Interesting. In your professional opinion, which brain type do you think lends itself best to trading?

From my experience some combination of blue/green/yellow would do best in trading. IMO, those who are dominant in blue/green would have the highest probability of success. This is because they have the ability to analyze and find a solution to the problem then set up rules and stick to them. People who are dominant red could do trading but run the risk of being emotionally drained when things dont go their way. They would fret over losing a hundred bucks, while someone who is dominant in blue would realize its part of trading.

Those who are dominant yellow only would have a difficult time as well. They tend to be disorganized and high level thinkers who jump around a lot. They love to change things; Yellows are easy to identify because they change thought / direction midstream.

It is interesting to note that based on your environment, your brain dominance can change over time. When I started my current job I was triple dominent blue/yellow/green with some red. 5 years later I am dominant in yellow/blue where my yellow is off the charts and my blue has increased while my red and green have decreased. Conclusion: You are a product of your environment.

SD

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Silver Dragon for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #106 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received

In this talking about trading business no one displays their track record in a way we can say 'That's a good trader'. In China doctors had to keep a sign outside their 'surgery' with the number of patients who had died. Just walk past and take yer pick. So, how about traders?

Traders just talk and write about the subject and the one thing we all want, 'trading profits' is never displayed by those prepared to teach or write about the subject. A level trading field is one problem, hindsight charts another, so I was fascinated to follow a recent competition where almost 6000 traders took part.

Each was given $20,000 virtual money and a platform to trade of for one month. The prize was $5,000 cash.

After 2 weeks over 2000 of the accounts are wiped out.
340 accounts have a return greater than 50%
4000 accounts are in the red drawdown
1300 accounts are in the black

The best trader has turned $20,000 into $300,000

It may only be in sim mode but a dozen traders have fantastic results and I get to see a genuine trading world that sure beats talking and writing about "How to Trade"

The top ten traders in this comp know a thing or two. Wonder who they are?

There needs to be more of these to really show traders how to trade. I have been amazed at the number of traders who go live real money account when they still have a lousy sim track record. I mean that is a no-brainer.

Show me a healthy sim101 account of 6 months with a good Profit Factor and E-Ratio and you might make the grade to be a trader.

In the good old days we had to learn to trade with real money.

During the war, most pilots were killed not in action, but in training! So the flight simulator was invented.

If you want to be a good trader sim, sim, sim until you have a fantastic free of fear method and then trade one lot till you make $2000 and then 2 lots etc. After some time you may even add a lot for every $5000 profits you have until you find your level.

Will let you know who wins at the end of July.

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #107 (permalink)
 Surly 
denver, colorado
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Trading: ZS
 
Surly's Avatar
 
Posts: 704 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 628 given, 1,256 received


Shivaya View Post

Traders just talk and write about the subject and the one thing we all want, 'trading profits' is never displayed by those prepared to teach or write about the subject. A level trading field is one problem, hindsight charts another, so I was fascinated to follow a recent competition where almost 6000 traders took part.


The best trader has turned $20,000 into $300,000

It may only be in sim mode but a dozen traders have fantastic results and I get to see a genuine trading world that sure beats talking and writing about "How to Trade"

The top ten traders in this comp know a thing or two. Wonder who they are?

You are certainly right that it would be nice to be able to tell who the real winning traders are and who they aren't on these forums - it would make listening to their opinions easier or it would make ignoring them easier. However, we all have to create our own success as has been observed many times before.

I wonder about the results from such a trading competition though - there is no incentive to mitigate risk. When you lose, you don't lose anything and if you win you get $5000 - it essentially encourages the riskiest trading strategies because that is what you're competing against. Now if you showed me 5 or 6 of these competitions and there were several traders who consistently placed in the top 20 or so, then I would want to know more. The winner of one competition is just as likely to be a lucky charlatan as a genuine success though. Otherwise you have what Nassim Taleb wrote about in his book "fooled by randomness".

In keeping with the theme of this thread - I do think that our own intuition plays a large role in ferreting out whether posters in this forum are worth listening to or not. One method I have learned is that if someone makes a sweeping statement that is "always" or "never" about trading methods - they are usually not worth listening to anymore. But even that rule has exceptions...

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Surly for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #108 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus, IB
Trading: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,339 received


Surly View Post
You are certainly right that it would be nice to be able to tell who the real winning traders are and who they aren't on these forums - it would make listening to their opinions easier or it would make ignoring them easier. However, we all have to create our own success as has been observed many times before.

I wonder about the results from such a trading competition though - there is no incentive to mitigate risk. When you lose, you don't lose anything and if you win you get $5000 - it essentially encourages the riskiest trading strategies because that is what you're competing against. Now if you showed me 5 or 6 of these competitions and there were several traders who consistently placed in the top 20 or so, then I would want to know more. The winner of one competition is just as likely to be a lucky charlatan as a genuine success though. Otherwise you have what Nassim Taleb wrote about in his book "fooled by randomness".

In keeping with the theme of this thread - I do think that our own intuition plays a large role in ferreting out whether posters in this forum are worth listening to or not. One method I have learned is that if someone makes a sweeping statement that is "always" or "never" about trading methods - they are usually not worth listening to anymore. But even that rule has exceptions...

I don't think it matters if a poster is a profitable trader, or not, or even if he/she has never even traded 1 contract in his life. It matters that the concept that the poster is talking about is sound, and resonates with you as the reader. There has been some discussions on probability theory on this forum, for example, that have helped my money management, yet those discussions could have come directly from a college professor who has never traded the markets. Also, just because a poster is profitable does not mean that their system will make you profitable. So then, their profitability has little value on the discussion. If someone introduces a method that is not profitable for them because they cannot tolerate the risk involved, maybe someone who is less risk averse, might succeed with that system. Or, someone can take 3 ideas from 3 non profitable traders, combine them and turn it into a rock solid system for them.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #109 (permalink)
 Surly 
denver, colorado
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Trading: ZS
 
Surly's Avatar
 
Posts: 704 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 628 given, 1,256 received


monpere View Post
I don't think it matters if a poster is a profitable trader, or not, or even if he/she has never even traded 1 contract in his life. It matters that the concept that the poster is talking about is sound, and resonates with you as the reader. There has been some discussions on probability theory on this forum, for example, that have helped my money management, yet those discussions could have come directly from a college professor who has never traded the markets. Also, just because a poster is profitable does not mean that their system will make you profitable. So then, their profitability has little value on the discussion. If someone introduces a method that is not profitable for them because they cannot tolerate the risk involved, maybe someone who is less risk averse, might succeed with that system. Or, someone can take 3 ideas from 3 non profitable traders, combine them and turn it into a rock solid system for them.

monpere - I totally agree. I certainly think my post gives impression I think otherwise but I just wanted to make a point that just because someone wins a contest, doesn't mean their advice will be good. Trading is so individualized that in the end, you have to work it out for yourself and the ideas that lead you to profitability may potentially come from anywhere as you suggest. Thanks for allowing me to clarify my statement.

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #110 (permalink)
 rtrade 
Paradise, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Big Charts
Trading: E-mini, Forex, Futures, Equities, Options
 
rtrade's Avatar
 
Posts: 502 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 578 given, 377 received


Shivaya View Post
The top ten traders in this comp know a thing or two. Wonder who they are?

If these traders are ringers (professional traders) then they have no business in a sim trading contest...just my opinion.

I'm not a pro but I've been training for a professional trading contest and should be entering it soon.


Shivaya View Post
Show me a healthy sim101 account of 6 months with a good Profit Factor and E-Ratio and you might make the grade to be a trader.

What is this E-Ratio?


Shivaya View Post
Will let you know who wins at the end of July.
Shivaya

You don't mind, what is this sim trading contest? Who sponsors it? Is it held every month? Who can participate?

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #111 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received


rtrade View Post
If these traders are ringers (professional traders) then they have no business in a sim trading contest...just my opinion.

Comment: There again the sim traders will be up against them for real one day.

I'm not a pro but I've been training for a professional trading contest and should be entering it soon.

Question: What is this one?

What is this E-Ratio?

Answer: MFE/MAE = E-Ratio (E = Edge, not a common calculation from what I can see)I consider it a very important risk feedback figure. If I look at any trading figures it is the first thing I calculate. Tells me where the trader has been to get the profit. Often way down in a heat of hell. MAE = $80 MFE = $320 E-Ratio = 4.00. This in my books is excellent. Basically low MAE/ high MFE, which means cut losses/let profits run. lol.


You don't mind, what is this sim trading contest? Who sponsors it? Is it held every month? Who can participate?

A UK forex spreadbetting company called Alpari. Never heard of them before yesterday. It is spread trading so not suitable for USA traders I understand.

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #112 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received

I have studied a two traders who have won competitions. Larry Williams and Marty Schwartz. Larry turned $10,000 into $1.1million in a year in the 1980's and then built a book/seminar business on the back of this.

He actually published all his statements online once to shut up the non-believers and I copied them down and put them into my money management program. He had a 78% drawdown and always experienced a 50% drawdown every month. So he was a massive risk taker. He actually had over $2 million but took a big loss just at the end!

Marty is also a wild trader, possessed and made more profits than all the others combined. He entered the comp to be the best and beat everyone. It sort of fired him up. He wrote The Pit Bull Trader.

These guys in a comp had a devil may care attitude and took huge risks that got many people into trading who soon realized what the 'feeling' of a futures contact meant.

Then came the ZenTrader. An approach where we still compete but sorta sweeter. As I studied risk and what I felt was my tolerance level I soon realized how much heat I could take on a trade of conviction. So I looked for the sweetest way to trade my convictions and finally found the sweet spot in both consciousness and entries.

Finally I found a formula to let me know if I was succeeding. The E-Ratio. MFE/MAE. When I keep this above 2.50 all is sweet!

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #113 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received

A quick way to know if you are really 'In the Sweet Spot' in your trading is to constantly monitor your own E-ratio. Ninja does not calculate this, but may soon I hope. I actually helped Ray at Ninja many years ago get the performance analysis section with a few ideas.

My focus on keeping a healthy E-Ratio keeps me in a sweet state and shows me if I am succeeding. When you have a good E-Ratio you will always feel good in your trading.

Just divide the MFE figure by the MAE figure to get your E-Ratio. If it is over 2.00 good. If you let a trade go beyond your stop and it comes back to give you a small profit, it will show up in your E-Ratio(and spoil your figures...tut...tut). So the profit made is not the full story. What was the journey of each trade? E-Ratio tells you.

I calculate it for day, week and month and year.

I have attached an example from Ninja.

Shivaya

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	119.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	61.4 KB
ID:	43297  
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #114 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus, IB
Trading: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,339 received


Shivaya View Post
A quick way to know if you are really 'In the Sweet Spot' in your trading is to constantly monitor your own E-ratio. Ninja does not calculate this, but may soon I hope. I actually helped Ray at Ninja many years ago get the performance analysis section with a few ideas.

My focus on keeping a healthy E-Ratio keeps me in a sweet state and shows me if I am succeeding. When you have a good E-Ratio you will always feel good in your trading.

Just divide the MFE figure by the MAE figure to get your E-Ratio. If it is over 2.00 good. If you let a trade go beyond your stop and it comes back to give you a small profit, it will show up in your E-Ratio(and spoil your figures...tut...tut). So the profit made is not the full story. What was the journey of each trade? E-Ratio tells you.

I calculate it for day, week and month and year.

I have attached an example from Ninja.

Shivaya

If your E-Ratio goes below 2, what do you do to raise it?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #115 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received


monpere View Post
If your E-Ratio goes below 2, what do you do to raise it?

When I was working my way through this exact question in my own trading through trial and error I saw that I had to work on letting more trades run. Catching some really big winners does wonders for the E-Ratio.

To achieve this I use simple swing stops that give the market room to wiggle. In addition I developed the skill of 'adding to a winner'.

I could see I was able to find the trade but needed to stay with the move. I worked on stop management to achieve this.

By actually focusing and constantly calculating my e-ratio every day I began to notice the trades that 'killed' it and the trades that 'enhanced' it.

I also noticed some pro traders from Chicago used the terms on twitter MAE 2 ticks for gain of +3 points. In other words he was able to get in with only 2 ticks of heat. I'm unable to do that but it built a powerful message of how important it is.

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #116 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received

OK, here are some classic examples of 'sweet no-think'

We have a population of some 1.8 million people. Three of our men have recently won 3 of the last 6 golf majors.

Darren Clarke just won the British Open on Sunday. Rory McIlroy won the US Open and Graeme McDowell won it a year ago. Here are a few secrets to Darren's success on Sunday.

A BBC reporter interviewed Bob Rotella a sports psychologist.The conversation went something like this.


BBC: What did you say to Darren?

BR: We talked about his attitude and his putting. We got him to go 'unconscious' with his putting.

BBC: Unconscious?

BR: Yes, look where you want it to go and hit it.

BBC: Doesn't mean to say he didn't miss one or two though?

BR: Oh well, I mean if you had to make them all in order to do it you'd never stick at anything. All we want to do is make every putt in his mind. I don't want you to be afraid of it. I don't want you to worry about running them by the hole. Darren, you're talented. Trust that your talented. That's sports.


...and that too is trading in the sweet spot!

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #117 (permalink)
 josh 
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,466 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,055 given, 14,517 received

Good stuff S.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #118 (permalink)
 dellcnu 
Dallas, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Mirus/zen-fire
Trading: NQ, ES, 6E
 
Posts: 98 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 102 given, 63 received

That's a wonderful example Shivaya
There is lot of experience which is seen in each and every post of you
Keep the posts rolling

The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim too high and we miss it,
but that it is too low and we reach it.
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #119 (permalink)
 westsider 
Los Angeles, California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES AAPL
 
Posts: 83 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 41 given, 105 received


Shivaya View Post
Winning Trades...Nice Profits...That's it really!

Hi Shivaya,
I repeated these phrases several times in my trading over the last few days. It has been extremely helpful. I especially notice a confidence boost saying this when I am 2/3 of the way to my target and considering exiting early.
Much Thanks!
westsider

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #120 (permalink)
 zt379 
UK London
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT and XTrader
Trading: Tomorrow
 
Posts: 1,419 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 1,365 given, 1,596 received

Beyond Thought (Awareness Itself)


"Every moment I wake up I realize I know nothing, and then I smile..." zt379
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #121 (permalink)
 Shivaya 
Belfast N.Ireland
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: ES
 
Shivaya's Avatar
 
Posts: 120 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 63 given, 480 received

"The sheer vastness of non-being is the reason for fear." Bhagwan...1980

The Universe
Space
Abyss
Galaxy
Eternity
Unconditional Love
Vortex

Then one small being...me or you!

To be Fearless we have to go through fear, and this kind of fear, the vastness of everything and the nothingness of one small being, living in a small body on a moving planet within a vast universe.

Go into it, experience the vastness, space travel alone. Soon you will feel safe, secure in the insecurity that somehow you are a part of all this. Soon you will relax and all fear disappears. Breakthrough.

Deliberate practise and visualizing sweet trades, nice profits in a state of fearlessness. Yes...non-thinking ~ AWARENESS!

Shivaya

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Shivaya for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #122 (permalink)
JTurner77
Los Angeles, CA
 
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 55 given, 31 received


Shivaya View Post
Many years ago I sat with a room of budding daytraders. They had all advanced enough to trade live real money.

Today was their first day to 'pull the trigger'.

The good part for them was they would be putting trades on my house account. I was taking the financial risk.

BUT...!!!

They were taking the 'FEELING of RISK' Few took a trade. All got out within a nano second!

Losing money is the easy part of trading. The 'feeling of losing' is what has to be dealt with. Once you can accept that losses are just 'costs' progress is rapid.

As soon as you leave your sweet spot the risk of additional losses increases dramatically. So why leave?

I do not care one bit what any trader says or does or writes. GOING BEYOND is THIS... I trade from within, I listen, I appreciate all my analysis skills, I wait and I pounce. Then I manage and scale out and finally let my runners take what is available. Then I analyse my results and update my trading log. All the time I am in a sweet state of 'Thanks Market'. This is Empowered Trading.

Shivaya

I believe that it was Dr. Alexander Elder who referred to this loss as a businessman's loss. Every business owner must accept the fact that he will have losses. There are reasonable and prudent losses one must be willing to endure to make a profit. We cannot eliminate the prospect of suffering a loss. We can eliminate the prospect of suffering excessive losses.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #123 (permalink)
JTurner77
Los Angeles, CA
 
 
Posts: 68 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 55 given, 31 received


Shivaya View Post
When I was working my way through this exact question in my own trading through trial and error I saw that I had to work on letting more trades run. Catching some really big winners does wonders for the E-Ratio.

To achieve this I use simple swing stops that give the market room to wiggle. In addition I developed the skill of 'adding to a winner'.

I could see I was able to find the trade but needed to stay with the move. I worked on stop management to achieve this.

By actually focusing and constantly calculating my e-ratio every day I began to notice the trades that 'killed' it and the trades that 'enhanced' it.

I also noticed some pro traders from Chicago used the terms on twitter MAE 2 ticks for gain of +3 points. In other words he was able to get in with only 2 ticks of heat. I'm unable to do that but it built a powerful message of how important it is.

Shivaya

If you are adding to your position as the market moves your direction, how do you calculate your edge ratio properly? For example:

Buy 1 lot of the ES at 2000.00 and the market moves against you 4 ticks to 1999.00 and then moves in your favor 12 ticks to 2003.00.

Then you buy another 1 lot at 2003.00. After adding to your position, the market pulls back 8 ticks to 2001.00 before reversing and continuing in your direction another 20 ticks to 2006.00.

Do you calculate each entry as a separate trade? For example, the edge ratio of the first lot would be 6 and the edge ratio of the second entry would be 1.5.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #124 (permalink)
 missionatsea 
Erie,Pa
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja, Oanda
Broker: Oanda-practice demo
Trading: GBP/AUD...wild ride
 
missionatsea's Avatar
 
Posts: 45 since Apr 2014
Thanks: 95 given, 34 received

I am amazed at the number of posters who quit posting, but are still poking around. And those who just up and vanish...I do not want to go down that highway.

Bear in mind I am practice trading on Oanda for 15 days now. My entries need a lot of foundational construction. The one sweet spot I have discovered is to cuss at the screen when a trade isn't working and close it out. Of 26 trades for 3 weeks, I have 11 wins and 15 losses for a 42% win rate. In the mix of losses, I have -$34 for 6 of those trades...I am not afraid to bellow f you beech and hit the X when a position fumbles and bumbles. And for that reason I am showing a +$752 profit. Never understood when it was said a successful trader can be had under 50%...I do now. Again, I am only practicing.

In the future, knowing I have the courage to close out trades and donate a few bucks to the broker, makes this venture a lot less stressful. Heck, there is always another trade just around the corner.

Tim

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #125 (permalink)
sharpshoota
Bodoe , Norway
 
 
Posts: 143 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 846 given, 122 received

The really though part is to keep my "monkey" in it's place when the losing streeks show up.....10 - 20 losers in a row takes a lot of emotional capital away. confidence in your strategy plays a large part in this game.
taking a day or two away from the screen at that point can be a very good idea.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #126 (permalink)
 rosho01 
London/UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: IBs ladder / Market Delta charts
Broker: IB / IQfeed
Trading: Bund
 
Posts: 438 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 260 given, 96 received

Great alternative thread Shivaya, thanks.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Going Beyond Psychology to make Winning Trades and Nice Profits


Last Updated on April 6, 2015


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts