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Retail Trading As An Industry


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Retail Trading As An Industry

  #51 (permalink)
 
SMCJB's Avatar
 SMCJB 
Houston TX
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GlobexTrader View Post
There is more than one way to look at a problem. Most traders are looking at the problem totally wrong and then they wonder why they lose money. You need to know TA. You need to know the chart patterns. And then you need to know how the markets work. Most everything else you can ignore.

Been meaning to make this comment in the "Battlestations" thread but haven't got around to it. Lots of lovely pictures of multi screen setups with dozens of charts most with several indicators. Can't see a spreadsheet anywhere. My setup is the opposite. Two tiny charts, but monitors full of spreadsheets! I'm with Big Mike and not a fan of random line theory/TA. May work for some people, but clearly doesn't work for most.


GlobexTrader View Post
When I see people talking about tick data I have to just laugh. You do know these days tick data is useless, right. Maybe 20 yrs ago it was useful for something, but these days it's just a waste of time. You have to understand how the markets work these days. The NYSE these days is basically a data center in Mahwah, NJ. Co-loocated in the same data center are the hedge funds and HFTs with their super computers. The first question you should ask is, wait a minute, how is that fair. Those super computers work on submillisecond times. Any data that you are getting even if it is only a few 100s of milliseconds behind is ancient history as far as those super computers are concerned.

Don't think those guys are using charts either. But then again they aren't using spreadsheets either. (Or probably winning any Battlestations competitions!)


GlobexTrader View Post
I've got a homework assignment for you. This will be fun and hopefully a learning moment. I want you to do an algo that at random times does a coin flip, heads you go long, tails you go short and then 10 mins later closes the trade out. That's it. No charts, no indicators, no nothing. Just at random times randomly go long or short and close the trade out 10 mins later. And you could set it so it does that say, 10 times a day, 50 times a day and 100 times a day and see what happens. And since the futures trade 23 hrs a day, use the whole 23 hrs, not just 9:30-4:00. And then if you want, you can look to see if it works better at certain times of the day. I'm actually kind of curious to see what the data says.

I did this several years ago although it was using daily bars rather than intraday. Proved to me that risk management is extremely important! RIsk management may not turn random entries into winning systems but it will prevent them from destroying you.

Sorry for being off topic.

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  #52 (permalink)
 
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 Big Mike 
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  #53 (permalink)
 
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 AllSeeker 
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SMCJB View Post
Been meaning to make this comment in the "Battlestations" thread but haven't got around to it. Lots of lovely pictures of multi screen setups with dozens of charts most with several indicators. Can't see a spreadsheet anywhere. My setup is the opposite. Two tiny charts, but monitors full of spreadsheets! I'm with Big Mike and not a fan of random line theory/TA. May work for some people, but clearly doesn't work for most.

Don't think those guys are using charts either. But then again they aren't using spreadsheets either. (Or probably winning any Battlestations competitions!)


I did this several years ago although it was using daily bars rather than intraday. Proved to me that risk management is extremely important! RIsk management may not turn random entries into winning systems but it will prevent them from destroying you.

Sorry for being off topic.

This is kind of off-topic from OP, but I had to ask here to keep continuity and for benefit of all others like me.

What exactly are you monitoring using spreadsheets? I mean like your trades taken? Bunch of numbers about indicator values? Some kind of VBA program that does something when some conditions are met? Something else? An actual screenshot here could help us tremendously.

I ask because modern day platforms provide a lot of things, someone new coming into the game with all these tools, may have not even considered use of spreadsheet or thought about it, and tbh I doubt even knows what to use it for.

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  #54 (permalink)
 
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 Small Dog 
Sydney NSW Australia
 
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SMCJB View Post

Proved to me that risk management is extremely important!

Can you describe your risk management methodology?

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  #55 (permalink)
 Larryeh1 
Oviedo, Spain
 
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I would agree that mindset is a large part of trading. There is no doubt. But, as usual, things can be emphasized that are not really understood. And trading, unfortunately, is not well understood in the correct way.

If it’s 90% mindset than, heck, we can just go get a massage, go to the gym, take that great walk or whatever one needs to do to get into the right mindset and then come back and have a 90% win rate since “trading is 90% mental”. No, I think this point has been misunderstood. Sure, in the beginning of ones trading, I can totally see this. It was very much the case with me as well. But, there are too many uncertainties when one is starting to learn anything, let alone trading, that do include a proper mindset.

When I look over my years as a price action trader, yes, it is very true that my mindset had a lot to do with my success or lack thereof. But, only in the phase of my learning where I was still unsure as to what I was looking for. When you are unsure about what you are looking for, your emotions will certainly kick in the hardest. After all, we are dealing with money. An emotionally charged subject all by itself. That’s why you need to learn in SIM mode first. Learn to trade properly, much less emotion, then once you’re consistent, start the move to real money, slowly. What I discovered is that, as one’s competence level and certainty increases in how they can read the prices move on their chart, it becomes more and more of a ritual of just following ones rules because, after you’ve had enough winning trades and see that you certainly can make it as a trader, the mindset stuff becomes less and less important. It never goes away and to this day, when I’m in a trade (am a scalper), if the trade starts to go into some congestion and starts taking longer than the usual 1 minute or so to complete, I can certainly feel the emotions start to come to the surface. But it is fairly easy to handle because, if one is consistent and skilled, a trader can look over their last many weeks or months of trades and see they have made the correct entry decision in the high majority of entries, and the mental aspect simmers down and gets replaced by confidence and certainty in the entry decision.

So my point is, yes, mindset is very important but gets less important as a "crutch" as one become competent and certain in their trading or motocross racing or ping pong or golfing or....

That's my take on it. I hope that helps anyone on this journey.

Cheers!
Larry

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  #56 (permalink)
 Humty Dumpty 
Garden Grove, California, USA
 
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processing View Post
Hey everyone,

So I was doing some thinking about trading as a retail trader, and what many books and almost all of trading courses teach.

It seems there is a highly emphasised mantra that is constantly spoken: “Trading is 90% mindset."

It really got me thinking. And even feeling a little resentful, if I'm to be completely honest.

It feels like it is implying "the course strategies all work" and "if you don't profit consistently" and "if you don't make money" or "[insert another phrase here]" it is always due to the trader's mindset. "It is the trader's fault." Meaning it is never the broker's fault. Or the fact that some strategies aren't meant to work in all markets.

It almost feels as though there is a disclaimer that trading teachers say: "If you take my course and you don't succeed, it's not my fault, just try harder, because it's your mindset that is the issue."

It's like an endless rabbit role that one can go down and never really return from. Thus it creates this endless purchasing of courses and books to "fix" the mindset.

It can lead to someone thinking “I just need to buy the next book, and hope it solves my mindset issue.” Or “this course will solve all my mindset problems.”

I just wanted to share my thoughts on this.

I would like to thank your honesty for sharing the hard truth reality of retail day trading. After 20 years of experiencing the game of trades I feel the same. Trading courses, trading software and trading books from gurus are expensive and, in some cases, unaffordable. And the benefits from them are not significant to make money in the long run.

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  #57 (permalink)
 mrizzo 
Gainesville, Fl
 
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If you look at statistics, 95% of traders lose money. I would be more inclined to think what we are being taught is useless. I am following another "guru" who keeps going back to the professionals vs the retail traders, and claims the professionals take advantage of, and profit off of, the retailers who are trying to follow all the same signals they are being taught. Im sure there is some truth to the psychological mindset of the trader, but I dont think enough to move the statistics a whole lot.
Also, there is some truth to the buy the next course mentality. It is just like marketing gurus teaching you how to make money online. They tell you enough to get you in trouble. Just enough to make you think you understand it, but not all the nuances that will actually make a difference. Everyone wants to teach a done for you program, but if they would teach effectively, you wouldn't need it done for you.

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  #58 (permalink)
 
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 AnvilRob 
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mrizzo View Post
If you look at statistics, 95% of traders lose money. I would be more inclined to think what we are being taught is useless. I am following another "guru" who keeps going back to the professionals vs the retail traders, and claims the professionals take advantage of, and profit off of, the retailers who are trying to follow all the same signals they are being taught. Im sure there is some truth to the psychological mindset of the trader, but I dont think enough to move the statistics a whole lot.
Also, there is some truth to the buy the next course mentality. It is just like marketing gurus teaching you how to make money online. They tell you enough to get you in trouble. Just enough to make you think you understand it, but not all the nuances that will actually make a difference. Everyone wants to teach a done for you program, but if they would teach effectively, you wouldn't need it done for you.

I like to think all the profits are going to the options sellers, and the outright futures contracts are just the brokers and institutions hedging off the risk from taking the other side of the options trades.

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  #59 (permalink)
 
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 twosigma 
San Francisco, California
 
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SMCJB View Post
My setup is the opposite. Two tiny charts, but monitors full of spreadsheets!

@SMCJB Could you describe what's on your spreadsheets?

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  #60 (permalink)
 
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 trendisyourfriend 
Quebec Canada
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twosigma View Post
@SMCJB Could you describe what's on your spreadsheets?

Yes, add my vote to this request @SMCJB
:-)

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