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Discipline problems

  #51 (permalink)
joergky
Berlin, Germany
 
Posts: 9 since Jun 2023
Thanks Given: 8
Thanks Received: 5

Oh, man. I really wanted to wait and test the system before I write anything more here in reply. BUUUUT, I am just so happy for that hint to COLD TURKEY - what a brilliant application. Seems to work just fine blocking rTrader. I was worried that my connection would be lost then with Ninjatrader - but it is not. Great. We`ll see how it goes and what will happens, but man....thanks for the recommendation!


bwolf View Post
Yeah, it may be overpriced now. I don't remember what I paid for it but I think it must've been about half of that when I originally got it. Unfortunately, it's probably the least expensive alternative as there just aren't any except one that doesn't have a lifetime license. I guess you just have to ask yourself how much money you lose without it

Hmm, I think by and large it does what it's supposed to. The only area where I had problems that I think were never resolved had to do with the max drawdown from profit setting, which I just don't use at this point. I stop after 2 losses. For that, it works. It goes off the NT8 P&L calculations and I think it makes it hard to code it right. I'm not sure.

In my journal today, I also mentioned why I have a max 10 MES lots set up whereas my max position loss doesn't make sense with anything over 5 lots. It's because a max 5 position lock works with ATMs in terms of deploying stops and targets, but if you work off the DOM as I sometimes do as well, you can start a 5 lot position but you can't then subsequently add a 5 lot target. You are maxed out on your entry, so all you can do is just hit the Close button and flatten. It's not a huge deal. With a 10 lot max and my size max position loss, once or twice you may put on a 10 lot trade and hit your max position loss right away, like poking your head out and getting swatted back down, lol.

It may have a couple of other idiosyncrasies, but small details. For the vast majority of things it works. I think most people just find ways to work around it, mainly due to their own bent for leaving loopholes open (me first and foremost, for a couple of years!). You really need to want to be totally focused on nailing them shut to get it right.

Yes, it will set up each account with its own set of adjustments. So if you have 20 Apex accounts, for example, you will have to enter all the things you want in a separate UI for each account, 20x.


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  #52 (permalink)
AndreyyFX
Bucharest, Romania
 
Posts: 5 since Aug 2021
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DollarDynamo View Post
That's because you trade incompatible timeframes with your personality. Short answer: do not day trade.

I was thinking more and more about this ! I think this is probably the root of the evil to say so, i try to chase the movement every time, focusing on higher time frame, swing trading, maybe moving to stocks

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  #53 (permalink)
 
rezak's Avatar
 rezak 
Genova.Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradingView
Broker: retail prop firms
Trading: setups
Posts: 298 since Mar 2021
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AndreyyFX View Post
I was thinking more and more about this ! I think this is probably the root of the evil to say so, i try to chase the movement every time, focusing on higher time frame, swing trading, maybe moving to stocks

To trade off daily charts you need a relatively big capital.

With relatively small amounts and constant cash flow in your pockets (profits every month), you gotta day trade whether you want it or not.

All those problems aka chasing and etc. will be solved by themselves if you trade long enough and mentally survive, but at the root, every person is more prone to day trade or multiday holding.

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  #54 (permalink)
 SkyITL 
TORONTO ONTARIO canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATARDER
Broker: Ninjatrader,GFF,FXCM World,Interactive Broker
Trading: ES,NQ,GC,CL,YM,6E,6B,6A,Dax
Posts: 46 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 13
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AndreyyFX View Post
I was thinking more and more about this ! I think this is probably the root of the evil to say so, i try to chase the movement every time, focusing on higher time frame, swing trading, maybe moving to stocks

With due respect to the opinions off all so far presented in this thread I differ and here is my submission.

External disciplines may help us to a small extent but real difference comes from disciplining within ourselves.

Human controls the software's and all external discipline applications as mentioned in this thread. So if we are not internally disciplined who can stop us disabling those applications and going discretionary.

Folks no one would have individually lost the capital more than me in this forum, I used all external discipline means but with utter failures.

I only turned the tables once I was disciplined from within. Since then, hardly I have a negative week and now recently, for last two months, even a day.

Here is the solution. Please reflect on your strategies. Due to AI trading has changed a lot. NQ used to be very volatile but it is no more trading like it use to do in past. It gyrates in small swings and even on extreme trendy days.

I was kind of mechanical price action small swings trader and pay little attention
to order flow but due to change in market behavior I paid little more attention to
order flow and session delta to qualify my trades now my efficiency and win probability has gone above 90%.

My average trade with 60 to 70 ticks profit lasts between 1 minutes to five minutes and between 120 to 200 ticks or above profit lasts between 15 to 30 minutes.

what I mean is we should spend some time to improve our trading strategies, we should include order flow and session delta in our trade set ups it will save us from lot of hassles.

I downloaded the cumulative delta by Gill tool from this forum and have made more than $100,000 using this tool just from prop accounts.

Highest time frame I use is 15 min never looked any time frame beyond that and use delta tool on 15 min as well.

Delta is always true it will not let us fight against the market. Using this tool can easily allow us make about $100-$200 a day on the smallest prop account playing just single micro MNQ in Just US cash session.

So merely focusing on discipline problems and playing with outdated discretionary
strategies will not help at all.

If we try to read marked structure and context, and qualify our trades with order flow and delta and update the strategies accordingly, discipline problems will go away.
Especially delta will not let us fight against the market.

It is my humble suggestion to all in this forum please try cumulative delta tool available for free in this forum you will feel the difference in trading.

Use, observe and devise strategies on 15 Min chart and feel the difference.

Hint- every 1000 contracts delta shift moves MNQ about 80-100 ticks at market tops and bottoms.

Give me feed back most of you will forget about discipline problems.

Pain of change is great, let us change our self.

Successful people don't do different things,
they do things differently.
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  #55 (permalink)
 SkyITL 
TORONTO ONTARIO canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATARDER
Broker: Ninjatrader,GFF,FXCM World,Interactive Broker
Trading: ES,NQ,GC,CL,YM,6E,6B,6A,Dax
Posts: 46 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 74


AndreyyFX View Post
I was thinking more and more about this ! I think this is probably the root of the evil to say so, i try to chase the movement every time, focusing on higher time frame, swing trading, maybe moving to stocks

Just a friendly feed back. I have been trading forex, stocks, ETFS, CFD'S and futures and still trade these instruments but I found the future market most profitable of all.
24/7 market access and very low commissions and uniform exchange data.

it is more to do with our strategies and risk management than the market we trade.
I recovered more than a $ Million in losses of other markets from this market.

Successful people don't do different things,
they do things differently.
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  #56 (permalink)
 
bwolf's Avatar
 bwolf 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8, TOS, Tradingview, BH
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES
Posts: 258 since Aug 2019
Thanks Given: 682
Thanks Received: 565


SkyITL View Post
With due respect to the opinions off all so far presented in this thread I differ and here is my submission.

External disciplines may help us to a small extent but real difference comes from disciplining within ourselves.

Human controls the software's and all external discipline applications as mentioned in this thread. So if we are not internally disciplined who can stop us disabling those applications and going discretionary.

Folks no one would have individually lost the capital more than me in this forum, I used all external discipline means but with utter failures.

I only turned the tables once I was disciplined from within. Since then, hardly I have a negative week and now recently, for last two months, even a day.

Here is the solution. Please reflect on your strategies. Due to AI trading has changed a lot. NQ used to be very volatile but it is no more trading like it use to do in past. It gyrates in small swings and even on extreme trendy days.

I was kind of mechanical price action small swings trader and pay little attention
to order flow but due to change in market behavior I paid little more attention to
order flow and session delta to qualify my trades now my efficiency and win probability has gone above 90%.

My average trade with 60 to 70 ticks profit lasts between 1 minutes to five minutes and between 120 to 200 ticks or above profit lasts between 15 to 30 minutes.

what I mean is we should spend some time to improve our trading strategies, we should include order flow and session delta in our trade set ups it will save us from lot of hassles.

I downloaded the cumulative delta by Gill tool from this forum and have made more than $100,000 using this tool just from prop accounts.

Highest time frame I use is 15 min never looked any time frame beyond that and use delta tool on 15 min as well.

Delta is always true it will not let us fight against the market. Using this tool can easily allow us make about $100-$200 a day on the smallest prop account playing just single micro MNQ in Just US cash session.

So merely focusing on discipline problems and playing with outdated discretionary
strategies will not help at all.

If we try to read marked structure and context, and qualify our trades with order flow and delta and update the strategies accordingly, discipline problems will go away.
Especially delta will not let us fight against the market.

It is my humble suggestion to all in this forum please try cumulative delta tool available for free in this forum you will feel the difference in trading.

Use, observe and devise strategies on 15 Min chart and feel the difference.

Hint- every 1000 contracts delta shift moves MNQ about 80-100 ticks at market tops and bottoms.

Give me feed back most of you will forget about discipline problems.

Pain of change is great, let us change our self.

Congratulations on the winnings.

If you look at the "How to Overcome Tilt" thread in this section, you'll see that we do not in essence disagree. The add-ons can help if properly installed. They can be made bulletproof, as I fall squarely in your camp as far as undoing them, but I have found ways to make them impenetrable. But it took a lot of determination and perhaps some discipline just to get to that point. So perhaps I am just making your point. It's hard to know the exact point at which one ends and the other starts. It's a process. Even if these tools only work as circuit breakers, that can, over time, little by little, help to work things out.

I would say the tools fall under the concept of constraints and the process of elimination that James Clear gives for helping to foster willpower by reducing the number of options available. To my mind, it's a huge relief to know that the options are simply not there. Now you can focus on whatever floats your boat (delta, etc.).

He writes:

"The Power of Decision Elimination

Making decisions over and over again will drain your willpower. This is true even if it’s the same, tiny decision — like constantly resisting the urge to check your email. (Another example: continually trying to follow a new, strict diet.)

Constraints can make it easier to stick to good habits by eliminating the number of decisions you need to make to move forward.

People often say that they want options. When it comes to getting things done, however, options aren’t always a good thing. When everything is a possibility, it actually becomes harder to make the right choice (or any choice at all). This is the paradox of choice.

Meanwhile, when we place a constraint on ourselves, it can become much easier to get something done. This is especially true if it is a constraint that forces us to start small.

If you want to start exercising, set a rule for yourself where you are not allowed to exercise for more than 5 minutes. You have to stop exercising after 5 minutes. I talked with a reader named Mitch who used this strategy to make his first six weeks of exercise very easy and then gradually built up to doing more. He ended up losing over 100 pounds. (Nice work, Mitch!)

If you want to become more creative, you can use constraints to drive your creativity. For example, you could write a book by only using 50 different words. This is the strategy Dr. Seuss used to write Green Eggs and Ham. (Full story here.)

If you want to eat more vegetables, you could limit yourself to only one type of vegetable this week. By limiting the number of choices you have to make, it’s more likely that you’ll actually eat something healthy rather than get overwhelmed trying to figure out all of the details of the perfect diet.

We often think that we want an open road and the ability to choose any direction for ourselves. But sometimes, what we need is a tunnel that can reduce our choices and send us in a focused direction."

You can't outsource confidence in trading decisions
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  #57 (permalink)
 SkyITL 
TORONTO ONTARIO canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATARDER
Broker: Ninjatrader,GFF,FXCM World,Interactive Broker
Trading: ES,NQ,GC,CL,YM,6E,6B,6A,Dax
Posts: 46 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 74


bwolf View Post
Congratulations on the winnings.

If you look at the "How to Overcome Tilt" thread in this section, you'll see that we do not in essence disagree. The add-ons can help if properly installed. They can be made bulletproof, as I fall squarely in your camp as far as undoing them, but I have found ways to make them impenetrable. But it took a lot of determination and perhaps some discipline just to get to that point. So perhaps I am just making your point. It's hard to know the exact point at which one ends and the other starts. It's a process. Even if these tools only work as circuit breakers, that can, over time, little by little, help to work things out.

I would say the tools fall under the concept of constraints and the process of elimination that James Clear gives for helping to foster willpower by reducing the number of options available. To my mind, it's a huge relief to know that the options are simply not there. Now you can focus on whatever floats your boat (delta, etc.).

He writes:

"The Power of Decision Elimination

Making decisions over and over again will drain your willpower. This is true even if it’s the same, tiny decision — like constantly resisting the urge to check your email. (Another example: continually trying to follow a new, strict diet.)

Constraints can make it easier to stick to good habits by eliminating the number of decisions you need to make to move forward.

People often say that they want options. When it comes to getting things done, however, options aren’t always a good thing. When everything is a possibility, it actually becomes harder to make the right choice (or any choice at all). This is the paradox of choice.

Meanwhile, when we place a constraint on ourselves, it can become much easier to get something done. This is especially true if it is a constraint that forces us to start small.

If you want to start exercising, set a rule for yourself where you are not allowed to exercise for more than 5 minutes. You have to stop exercising after 5 minutes. I talked with a reader named Mitch who used this strategy to make his first six weeks of exercise very easy and then gradually built up to doing more. He ended up losing over 100 pounds. (Nice work, Mitch!)

If you want to become more creative, you can use constraints to drive your creativity. For example, you could write a book by only using 50 different words. This is the strategy Dr. Seuss used to write Green Eggs and Ham. (Full story here.)

If you want to eat more vegetables, you could limit yourself to only one type of vegetable this week. By limiting the number of choices you have to make, it’s more likely that you’ll actually eat something healthy rather than get overwhelmed trying to figure out all of the details of the perfect diet.

We often think that we want an open road and the ability to choose any direction for ourselves. But sometimes, what we need is a tunnel that can reduce our choices and send us in a focused direction."

Respect for all schools of thought, what ever I expressed is my opinion and I am living it. It is working for me since 2017.
I am follower of Blair Dunkley and his experiential model of learning, it is wonderful and resorts more to internal change than to external constraints.
I got personal training from this person and he changed my outlook of life.

The crux of it is-- Plan-execute-Adjust. Stay dynamic accommodate new realities
and keep adjusting.

Successful people don't do different things,
they do things differently.
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  #58 (permalink)
 
SBtrader82's Avatar
 SBtrader82   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 587 since Feb 2018
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I think that just reading this thread is quite eye opening. The fact that so many of us gather here, discussing our struggle with discipline, is already a sign that "being undisciplined is normal".
Once you accept this normality, you can sort of forget about being or not being undisciplined and focus on trading itself.

Aceptance is a big par of the game. Accept your own behaviours, understnad them but look at them with a smile and with some gratitude.
Do not fight for perfection, just enjoy taking reasonable risk and go on with that.

That's my final enlightment after 8 years in this business.

Consistency is a big myth, big gains are always around the corner, big losses can be limited. So push hard when the opportunity arise and be happy if you break even or make small profits or small gains 80% or the days.

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  #59 (permalink)
 
bwolf's Avatar
 bwolf 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8, TOS, Tradingview, BH
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES
Posts: 258 since Aug 2019
Thanks Given: 682
Thanks Received: 565


SkyITL View Post
Respect for all schools of thought, what ever I expressed is my opinion and I am living it. It is working for me since 2017.
I am follower of Blair Dunkley and his experiential model of learning, it is wonderful and resorts more to internal change than to external constraints.
I got personal training from this person and he changed my outlook of life.

The crux of it is-- Plan-execute-Adjust. Stay dynamic accommodate new realities
and keep adjusting.

Thanks; I'll check it out.

You can't outsource confidence in trading decisions
Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #60 (permalink)
vfxAlert
New Delhi, India
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2020
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 1



AndreyyFX View Post
I was thinking more and more about this ! I think this is probably the root of the evil to say so, i try to chase the movement every time, focusing on higher time frame, swing trading, maybe moving to stocks

By trading for a long time, you will be able to understand which timeframe is more suitable for you. Purpose: to remain judicious when trading. Scalping and intraday are more for professionals. To be successful, you need to be able to wait.

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