NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Desperate call for help, I CANT execute my discretionary trading plan no matter what


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one nenuser with 32 posts (29 thanks)
    2. looks_two tigertrader with 11 posts (97 thanks)
    3. looks_3 bobwest with 8 posts (38 thanks)
    4. looks_4 syswizard with 8 posts (5 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one tigertrader with 8.8 thanks per post
    2. looks_two josh with 6.8 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 bobwest with 4.8 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 nenuser with 0.9 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 13,221 views
    2. thumb_up 289 thanks given
    3. group 32 followers
    1. forum 91 posts
    2. attach_file 26 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Desperate call for help, I CANT execute my discretionary trading plan no matter what

  #21 (permalink)
 Arch 
W.Coast, USA.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Anything
Trading: Emini
Posts: 347 since Jul 2017
Thanks Given: 106
Thanks Received: 381


nenuser View Post
Hey guys, how are you?

As the title says, I cant execute my trading plan. There is no way. I open the trade and as soon as I open it I close it, I can't even wait until the next bar closes or anything of the sort.

I have been studying the markets for more than 6 years, I have more than 15000 hours of chart time. I know what I am doing, I know for a fact what is a trade and what is not a trade, I polished my skills, I polished my price action and my plan to perfection. I have no doubts about it being profitable, yet I CANNOT DO IT. It will make me sick I can't stand it anymore.

I tried it all, I have read it all about trading psychology (Douglas, all of them), I tried all kinds of different approachs and no matter what I can't do it. It is like an irrational fear, a subconscious fear.

If I show you my trade log they all go like "I took a tick" while the real result if held is always my target. I have planned it all, I cant hold it for my dear life.

Day after day, I post it all I have it all logged, I know my calls are >80% profitable YET I CANT DO IT. I cant take action. I cant do it.

I need help, maybe someone who could beat this or any suggestion please.

Thanks for reading and appreciate your replies

I'm going to make assumptions and you tell me where I'm wrong:

1) you have a small account
2) you don't have money to lose
3) the money that you do have means a lot to you and desperately want it to grow, and are scared of losing it.
4) you trade SIM and see it fails 20% of the time and in the back of your mind that's enough to scare you in live trading.
5) you start live trading and start remembering real and SIM losses subconsciously and go for quick scalps
6) you get emotional during trading (wins and losses)
7) you truly are not consistent with your trading plan and lie to yourself/ignore reality.

Based on what you say above will reflect my next response.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
Increase in trading performance by 75%
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
35 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
19 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
16 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
14 thanks
  #22 (permalink)
 Richh 
Seattle Wa usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tos
Trading: tf
Posts: 26 since Sep 2013
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 19

Trade one micro lot is the best suggestion. Trade for two to three points do this until you win rate gives you more confidence.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #23 (permalink)
nenuser
Buenos Aires, Argentina
 
Posts: 30 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 31
Thanks Received: 30



tigertrader View Post
Sorry, @bobwest. Time to take the gloves off and hit @nenuser with the blunt instrument. @nenuser, you are obviously not looking for help. You are looking for affirmation! I got news for you. There is nothing novel about your ideas. You haven't re-invented the wheel. In fact it's the same old regurgitated retail pablum, that's been recited on these pages ad nauseum. Believe me when I tell you that you are grossly overestimating your ability and your knowledge. It's a very common cognitive bias among newbies on this forum. What you need to do is grow some balls and trade, not get someone to do it for you. It's that simple!

I think I was misunderstood a bit, taken as if I am talking from a high position. This is not the case, english is my second language so maybe my expressions looked that way.

I never said what I did was something novel, where did I say that? I am just a student of the market, of Al Brooks, and several other big industry names. I have done the work in constantly observing their principles and putting the logic together to be able to analyze the chart in real time.

I am not grossly overestimating my abilities.

You are right in what you say about growing some balls, but not right in judging my character

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #24 (permalink)
nenuser
Buenos Aires, Argentina
 
Posts: 30 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 31
Thanks Received: 30


bobwest View Post
Well, that is taking the gloves off. I don't think it is too rough, though.

@nenuser, there's the simple fact that if you can't make yourself click the mouse, you've got to either find a way to do it or give up the idea of trading. Otherwise, you're stuck in a limbo forever. Trading pays you (or not) for taking risk. Not foolish risk, not gambler's risk, not uncontrolled risk. But if you don't take on risk -- the risk of having a position in a market, that could easily go against you -- then there will never be a profit, either.

The best advice I could give is to take care of your financial situation, as I suggested before, by securing an income so you aren't up against the wall 100% of the time and you are willing and able to risk a loss. Then, in graduated steps, do so. If you can't take a loss, you can't trade. And if you don't take losses, you don't know how good a trader you actually are.

You have a chart that's annotated with the trades you would have made, if you only traded. But you didn't. This just is not trading. It surprised me to read when you said that you would offer to share your profits with someone who is willing to follow your ideas and do the mouse clicking for you.



Why would someone think your ideas are so valuable, when you don't trade them? Until you have something in the game, and do so over and over again, you don't know anything about trading.

We have traders here who work full jobs, then come home and trade the after-hours market, or get up early and trade during the European hours, or have arrangements about their working hours that let them trade. Or do anything else it takes to both pay the bills and trade.

I don't mean to be rough about it, but trading is almost the ultimate in personal responsibility. It's accepting risk. So start there. Reduce how hard a loss will hit you, increase your personal and financial resilience -- get a job, so you don't depend on the trading profits you hope for but don't have -- and then take it on yourself to trade. People will try to help, but it takes some realism on your part.

Good luck. And do it.

Bob.

About what you say about being surprised of sharing profit, as the title says I cant find a solution to my issue. I wish I could, I am willing to give it all if someone would be able to help me with it.

You are right on the issue of securing an income, I am in the process of getting a remote job to do while trading which I believe may help me to take off the whole weight off trading itself.

As to the trades, they were all taken. The sole entries taken that day, I can show the executions, but pathetically in all of them I closed them 5 minutes later for a minimum gain without respecting their targets...

Thank you for the wise words and wake up call, I know this is a personal journey. I can only aspire to do my best to get to the level required to reach peak performance.

Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)
nenuser
Buenos Aires, Argentina
 
Posts: 30 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 31
Thanks Received: 30


Arch View Post
I'm going to make assumptions and you tell me where I'm wrong:

1) you have a small account
2) you don't have money to lose
3) the money that you do have means a lot to you and desperately want it to grow, and are scared of losing it.
4) you trade SIM and see it fails 20% of the time and in the back of your mind that's enough to scare you in live trading.
5) you start live trading and start remembering real and SIM losses subconsciously and go for quick scalps
6) you get emotional during trading (wins and losses)
7) you truly are not consistent with your trading plan and lie to yourself/ignore reality.

Based on what you say above will reflect my next response.

I will tell you which ones are right:

Number 2 3, 4, 5, 7 (half of it, I cant keep the trades to target which isnt being consistent)

Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)
 Arch 
W.Coast, USA.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Anything
Trading: Emini
Posts: 347 since Jul 2017
Thanks Given: 106
Thanks Received: 381


nenuser View Post
I will tell you which ones are right:

Number 2 3, 4, 5, 7 (half of it, I cant keep the trades to target which isnt being consistent)

You have a long road ahead of you if that's your answer.

#2 implies #1 is true.
#3 mentions "scared of losing" yet you disagree with #6.

You're looking for a magic fix to your problems because you desperately need money and want riches. Compounding that with a trading plan you truly do not believe in with conviction is a recipe for disaster.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #27 (permalink)
 
josh's Avatar
 josh 
Georgia, US
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: Denali+Rithmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 6,234 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 6,775
Thanks Received: 18,208


nenuser View Post
I have been studying the markets for more than 6 years, I have more than 15000 hours of chart time. I know what I am doing, I know for a fact what is a trade and what is not a trade, I polished my skills, I polished my price action and my plan to perfection. I have no doubts about it being profitable, yet I CANNOT DO IT. It will make me sick I can't stand it anymore.

...

Day after day, I post it all I have it all logged, I know my calls are >80% profitable YET I CANT DO IT. I cant take action. I cant do it.

You almost sound overconfident. I can't imagine someone like PTJ saying "I know what I am doing, ... I polished my price action and my plan to perfection." That doesn't sound like successful traders. "I know for a fact" just doesn't sound right, to me.

FWIW, Analysts make "calls" ... traders take trades (and hold onto them long enough to at least justify the risk taken).

What does a loss represent to you? Or, missing out on a big win? I used to just dream of a big win. For me at the time, that would have been probably about $1000. If I could just take one trade and make $1000, I would have "arrived" ... "anything would be possible!" The monkey would be off my back, the market will have finally let me catch a break, and then I'll be free, knowing that I can do it.

Well, big wins do happen, but despite a steady flow of profitable trades (larger than what I used to dream of), I can tell you that while it does give you a sense of satisfaction, you're still only as good as your next trade. You get that magic $1k trade, but next you might lose $1k, or more. You never "arrive" -- you just get to trade bigger size, and both the wins and the losses grow. The key is to keep losses contained. Even if your wins are not big, keep losses contained, first and foremost. Then you can focus on confidently letting the market pay you more.

I've found that once I accept a given less-than-favorable outcome, and am "ok" with it, then it tends to happen to me less. So you exited early. Who cares? You're alive, as healthy as you were before, and nothing's different. Accept what you are afraid of, be ok with it, and let it be.

Here's some possibly controversial (like I care) stuff I said some time ago. It doesn't directly apply here, but consider that you're purely playing a game when you trade. You provide no value to anyone. You can win, or you can lose, in varying degrees. If you never traded again, no one would care. The market is so much bigger than any of us. Be safe, but don't sweat it. It's a game, so don't take it so seriously:


josh View Post
You know the advice everyone gives: "work hard, study the market" ... "treat trading like a business" ... you know, all of that stuff. Well, I think you *do* have to treat it like a business in the sense that you can't just wildly do stupid things. And early on, of course you have to study things to figure out what the hell is going on. But after some time (like, several years, for sure), I don't know that you see many days that look a whole lot different. Yes, drivers of price change, and all of that (you'd be a fool if you traded right now and didn't know that rates are central to the market's overall movement). But short term trading is still largely about positioning (Waller, a hawk, says some hawkish things and the market rallies today... it's all volatility and positioning). And there are only so many ways the market can move up and down.
...
Trading is so different... it's not a normal business. Logic doesn't apply. Some people who know *nothing* about trading made a LOT of money buying bitcoin and momo stocks. You can't apply real world rules to trading. It isn't "real" ... you can click a button, provide no value to society, and make more money in one minute than some people do today in an entire year. That isn't real. No moral judgements there, just emphasizing that in a very literal sense, it's just not real. So, don't force trades, and don't equate "work" with making money in trading. You don't need to "work."

One last thing to consider: what you are trading with does not appear to be particularly unique or special. What's special is how you use it. So, if you can't actually take or hold a trade, you have no edge. You are the edge--your interpretation of information is your edge, if you really have one. So, inject yourself into the equation. Otherwise, there's no edge there.

Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)
 
AllSeeker's Avatar
 AllSeeker 
Mumbai, India
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradingView & ZerodhaKite
Trading: NIFTY, BANKNIFTY
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 1,424 since Jan 2019
Thanks Given: 5,249
Thanks Received: 5,012


nenuser View Post
Hey guys! First of all I wanted to say thank you for the exceptional advice provided in this thread. I am very thankful.

I am reading the traderfeed blog by Brett shared by TigerTrader and meditating on all the advice given by all users.

The idea I want to give a try, which was something I had on my mind after a friend told me how big institutions have trading tables where there is not "one" who trades but several people, is to have someone execute for me.

I tried this with a friend of mine, but he had zero idea about the markets and provided not much value, he didnt even know how to click on the DOM to place an order, and even tough I tried teaching him the basics I noticed his mind was somewhere else and had zero passion for the venture. I could teach him the basics, and I obviously did, but that didnt go too far as he couldnt sit himself on his own to carry out his own observations.

So what I am looking is someone with passion for the markets, who maybe even trades his account and knows price action at least on an intermediate level. What I offer is a % of the profits and the possibility to copy what I see and take my signals. I have been an observer and student of the market for several years and I have a huge passion for what I do, I know how to trade. I can teach you everything I know as well. My offer is for someone interested in doing this, he/she can join me over a trading room I have with several other brooks PA traders and see how my calls act in real time. I keep on making calls YET I cant take them myself.

PA DAX doesnt know me, but I noticed he is an Al Brooks advocate. I will post a chart of what I do below. I use mainly price action, with HLC pivots from prior days, today's open, opening range and its high and low and measurements taken from all this. I know what to do. I know where to place the stop and what algos are mostly targeting at least for their first target (I mostly do 2 times risk). I also mix this with higher time frame analysis on a globex chart (M15, M60 and daily) analyzed with the same concepts to provide me with a general idea on how the open will act (where and how it will open based off this)



Below I will include a chart for yesterday's action (On the next post, I cant seem to post images yet)

Again, I am looking for someone who is willing to trade my ideas. I will pay a % of each profit as well as teaching you ALL I know and allowing you to copy what I see.

If anyone is interested, or likes what I am doing and just wants to learn for free (even if not interested in being the one who executes my ideas) and is passionate about trading please PM me here. Also, if someone wants to help me directly without doing the trading stuff please also do PM me. I am in so much need of help, it feels I did all the technical analysis mastering, I am there, and I cant take action on it.

Again,

Thanks a lot for reading and for helping me out. I highly appreciate it all and I hope someday I can beat my lower emotions and my subconscious fears.

See, fully tradable ideas are usually tradable by someone who is just being there to click. Why I suggested this was because its usually more time saving way of testing the worth of strategy if you don't know programing yourself to go full algo way.

Since the said person was not able to trade it, whatever might be the surface reason, probably the problem is with your expectation of the strategy.

One another thing I'm noticing is that your faith in the strategy is from eyeballing chart rather than actual discernable backtest with various important factors like drawdowns.

This thread already has some stern replies but being a newbie myself, I can empathies.

I think you need to have a different approach to this than what you have now. Eyeballing strategies and trading them requires a very confidant trader, which you are not by self admission, backtesting and gaining confidence out of backtest outcome (Assuming its legible backtest) is the only legible way for you.

If things don't work out, don't beat yourself over it, its not bad idea to find something else to earn money.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #29 (permalink)
 
Pa Dax's Avatar
 Pa Dax 
Netherlands
Price Action Scientist
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, IB TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, CQG
Trading: ES
Posts: 1,236 since Oct 2017
Thanks Given: 2,007
Thanks Received: 6,318

Sounds more and more like you're just trying to sell a system. I'm outta here.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #30 (permalink)
 HiLatencyTRDR HLT 
Midway florida
 
Posts: 462 since Dec 2018


I would guess 90% of the real traders on this site are in the exact same boat as you.
This is why so Many fail.
If you cant do something then you stop

Reply With Quote




Last Updated on November 19, 2022


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts