Anxiety and Trading - futures io
futures io



Anxiety and Trading


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one snax with 6 posts (41 thanks)
    2. looks_two rahulgopi with 3 posts (31 thanks)
    3. looks_3 xplorer with 2 posts (15 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Blue Eagle with 1 posts (10 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Salao with 11 thanks per post
    2. looks_two rahulgopi with 10.3 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 xplorer with 7.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 snax with 6.8 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 2,336 views
    2. thumb_up 156 thanks given
    3. group 19 followers
    1. forum 18 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Anxiety and Trading

(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 patrader65 
Boston MA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, TOS
Trading: ES, CL
 
patrader65's Avatar
 
Posts: 53 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 608 given, 123 received

Thanks for this great thread. I have come to the conclusion that anxiety is part of trading and I have to live with it. I have been in this business part time for about 7 years and recently going full time, but I am never comfortable while I am in any trade, winning or losing. The key is to recognize it and make sure you manage it so it doesn't cloud decision making.

I think a lot of anxiety and frustration comes from doing too much and expecting too much from the market. This results in over-trading, which leads to bad decision making and typically ends up in a downward spiral or constant spinning of the wheels. It took a long time for me to realize you can only extract so much from the market trading 1 contract. If you push it, performance decreases.

I am not saying one should scalp for small targets, it is far from it. But, the real money is made by trading bigger size with reasonable targets, trading less and making high quality decisions. Once you see cash flow on some consistent basis, it improves your confidence, and you can manage anxiety better. Less is more is a good motto for tackling anxiety.

Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to patrader65 for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
What are the main Eurobond futures and their respective …
Traders Hideout
Does anyone have the code for Anchored Vwap to use in Qu …
Traders Hideout
Google Keyword Search Alerts
Traders Hideout
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Vinny E-Mini & Algobox Review TRADE ROOM
45 thanks
Design a DayTrader Scalping Order Flow Indicator
22 thanks
Daytrading.Coach Review
15 thanks
The Wheel Strategy on Options
9 thanks
AMA: FuturesTrader71 (FT71) / Morad Askar - Ask Me Anything
9 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
Webinar Host
Liquidity Hunting Nomad
Roamin' the countryside
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart Pkg 5
Broker: CQG
Trading: MES at the moment
 
Rrrracer's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,507 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 17,571 given, 9,700 received

Thanks @rahulgopi for sharing your insights. You reached out to me early on in my trading career and I appreciate it. I'm certainly not the only one here to benefit from your thoughtful posts.

Over the last few years, I've come to the conclusion that edge, while not easily obtained, is not the only hurdle to overcome. Once we have it, we have to contend with ourselves. There's nobody else to blame if it doesn't work out.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to Rrrracer for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 Blue Eagle 
Legendary Market Wizard
vancouver British Columbia/Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: CL
 
Blue Eagle's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,258 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 5,877 given, 5,094 received


I write little thoughts down as I am trading...these days they focus mostly around allowing trading to be my "Zen space"...a name I borrowed from Rahulgopi that in itself doesn't mean much to me. I simply mean peaceful, happy and focused. When I find myself getting agitated (like today) I take time to ask myself why. I've heard people use the phrase "emotional capital"...something that we can lose along with our money. After an intense hour or two we can feel totally drained and sometimes pretty much useless for hours later. I've had many days like that.

These days are the most Zen days trading days I've ever had...and I was sitting on my back deck just now (my other Zen space) and pondering a comparison between the two. I sit, sipping coffee and watch the gentle breeze rustling the branches of the beautiful trees out there, feel that breeze on my face and I can sense my whole being unwinding and soaking in the beauty. And I asked myself "can trading be THIS chill?"...Is that possible?

And in that moment I realized a piece of the puzzle about why things are different these days. I have simply decided lately that I am going to see watching the markets as part of my relaxing time in a day. Time for rejuvenation and enjoyment...it's quiet, cool and all I am really doing is taking in the view. And so, when in a trade that I am feeling anxious about I ask myself "are you really gonna sell this peaceful moment for a little bit of money?". Are you really telling me that you can't enjoy this time because there is money on the line? And the idea of trading that peace for money breaks the circuit somehow because I am absolutely NOT willing to sell my enjoyment of life in ANY moment for money...that is a lesson I learned long ago.

As I pondered I thought of this thread and thought I would contribute this in case it helps anyone.
Craig



We all have two lives...the second one starts when we realize...we only have one.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to Blue Eagle for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,791 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 7,337 given, 7,493 received


rahulgopi View Post
Good for nothing Meditation

Desiring to be desireless, desiring to have a quiet mind, meditation is full of paradox . Meditation with any expectation always leads to more suffering. Quieting the mind or letting go or witnessing the observer etc as a psychological exercise leads to more conflict and confusion for the mind.

Below is a good video on zazen , Good for Nothing meditation as Sohaku Okumura explains.


Few other links on zazen and mortality, since we are on the topic of anxiety .



mortality



mindfulness

Thank you, @rahulgopi, as always! I have these marked down to watch this weekend as part of my homework.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,791 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 7,337 given, 7,493 received


Blue Eagle View Post
I write little thoughts down as I am trading...these days they focus mostly around allowing trading to be my "Zen space"...a name I borrowed from Rahulgopi that in itself doesn't mean much to me. I simply mean peaceful, happy and focused. When I find myself getting agitated (like today) I take time to ask myself why. I've heard people use the phrase "emotional capital"...something that we can lose along with our money. After an intense hour or two we can feel totally drained and sometimes pretty much useless for hours later. I've had many days like that.

These days are the most Zen days trading days I've ever had...and I was sitting on my back deck just now (my other Zen space) and pondering a comparison between the two. I sit, sipping coffee and watch the gentle breeze rustling the branches of the beautiful trees out there, feel that breeze on my face and I can sense my whole being unwinding and soaking in the beauty. And I asked myself "can trading be THIS chill?"...Is that possible?

And in that moment I realized a piece of the puzzle about why things are different these days. I have simply decided lately that I am going to see watching the markets as part of my relaxing time in a day. Time for rejuvenation and enjoyment...it's quiet, cool and all I am really doing is taking in the view. And so, when in a trade that I am feeling anxious about I ask myself "are you really gonna sell this peaceful moment for a little bit of money?". Are you really telling me that you can't enjoy this time because there is money on the line? And the idea of trading that peace for money breaks the circuit somehow because I am absolutely NOT willing to sell my enjoyment of life in ANY moment for money...that is a lesson I learned long ago.

As I pondered I thought of this thread and thought I would contribute this in case it helps anyone.
Craig



What an awesome way to view trading. I thought about this today. Trading is also my happy place, but I get really uptight at times about the struggle.

For me, I am looking to both grow to take on more uncomfortable challenges while at the same time trying to stay in a peaceful mind-set. Thanks for posting this @Blue Eagle.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,791 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 7,337 given, 7,493 received

@rahulgopi, I thought for some time about this one in particular:



After thinking, there are many facets of the video I agree with.

I think for me, it breaks down into the fundamental problem of "how do I want to spend my time here on earth?"

Do I want to settle and find a comfortable way of life that is 'good-enough'...or do I want to use my time to take on greater challenges
that bring me joy and can potentially lead to things like 1) not having to answer to somebody else, 2) having to spend my limited time working on someone else's vision and goals, or 3) be numb on a salary which may be comfortable but is also limiting in other ways.

Note that obviously there is nothing wrong with having a salary and benefits, for some the career they have earned is the goal. For others, they may feel like they are settling in their particular field or they may have different goals altogether so its different person to person.

Another point I took away from this video was when we are failing and feeling vulnerable about something that is very important to us, we tend to avoid feeling threatened by engaging in mind-numbing pleasures. My take-away is to learn to better notice when I'm feeling like I've failed and instead of avoiding it, I should embrace the feeling and work on how to fix the underlying problem. This isn't necessarily new information as we know that avoiding underlying issues does not make them go away, but I think of how many Friday evenings where I felt like life was kicking me in the ass that week even though I'd worked as hard as I could, and I would just think "I deserve a drink", and instead, should have dusted myself off and worked at my craft. This isn't to say we shouldn't let ourselves unwind when we need a break from life, but constantly avoiding the underlying issue will ultimately lead you nowhere, so that is what inspires me to put the work in.

Great resources, and thanks again for sharing @rahulgopi!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 dannyinhouston 
Houston Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: CL, YM, NQ, ES
 
dannyinhouston's Avatar
 
Posts: 329 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 287 given, 1,030 received

This book is highly recommended. Emotions are not bad, in fact they are very useful.

This book describes how to construct a "mental game" system to suit your style of trading.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09253NDBB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_image_o02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jared did a webinar here a few days ago. I have found this to be maybe the best book I've ever read on trading (and I have read well over one hundred books).


Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to dannyinhouston for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,791 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 7,337 given, 7,493 received

A big source of anxiety for me is being unsure of what to focus on to take the next few steps forward on my trading journey. Finding this to be an Excellent read that is very pertinent to my current struggles:

https://tendex.substack.com/p/firstprinciples

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
wBobby
Santa Clara, California
 
 
Posts: 18 since May 2021
Thanks: 2 given, 14 received

I would echo some of the earlier sentiments about mindfulness.

People try to compartmentalize their lives, and think they can keep trading in its own box. But how you live your life manifests in your trading. You can't live a life of complexity and stress and distraction and expect to be calm and focussed at the trading screen.

There's that phrase: "how you do anything is how you do everything". Remembering this has helped me a lot with trying to create excellence, not just in trading but in life.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to wBobby for this post:


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Anxiety and Trading


Last Updated on September 19, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts