I finally blew up an account - futures io
futures io



I finally blew up an account


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Sandpaddict with 16 posts (23 thanks)
    2. looks_two goodoboy with 7 posts (8 thanks)
    3. looks_3 redbarntrades with 5 posts (19 thanks)
    4. looks_4 feinbern with 4 posts (13 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one blew with 31.3 thanks per post
    2. looks_two bobwest with 20 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 matthew28 with 17.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Sandpaddict with 1.4 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 10,792 views
    2. thumb_up 649 thanks given
    3. group 1,170 followers
    1. forum 165 posts
    2. attach_file 2 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

I finally blew up an account

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
blew
CLE, Ohio
 
 
Posts: 3 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 2 given, 94 received

So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Power Meter for Ninjatrader (like Jigsaw or similar)
NinjaTrader
1-min Intrabar indicator
MultiCharts
Simple "runner" code
EasyLanguage Programming
Multichart NET: where can i find esplanation on CustomIn …
MultiCharts
Is there a way to rename an existing trade?
MultiCharts
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
How much do you know about Bitcoin?
97 thanks
FIO Journal Challenge - April 2021 w/Jigsaw Trading
38 thanks
I finally blew up an account
38 thanks
EdgeProX from Edge Clear
22 thanks
The tiyfTradePlanFactory indicator
21 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
 BA 21 
Southern MD
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CTS
Broker: Advantage Futures
Trading: U.S. Treasury Futures
 
Posts: 26 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 49 received

I somewhat know how you feel. I lost $35000 in 15 minutes back in 2017. I will never forget that sick feeling in the stomach, that feeling of despair. I quickly got over it, took the rest of my money off the table, and took a seat (a very long seat, a three year seat).

It's a learning lesson, a tough one. You'll get over it, build up your funds, and return to the arena smarter and wiser.

Reply With Quote
The following 11 users say Thank You to BA 21 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Thatoneguy
USA. TEXAs
 
 
Posts: 2 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 13 received


What caused you to deviate from the process that allowed you to make solid gains for 5 months? Do you feel like that consistent success inflated your ego and created extreme overconfidence? Why don't you have some type of % risk per trade based on account size? What exactly are you trying to get revenge on, because market doesn't care who you are. You need to go back to drawing board and figure exactly what lead to your success in those 5 months. Overall it sounds like you need to focus on managing risk, so that you can survive to trade another day.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to Thatoneguy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
blew
CLE, Ohio
 
 
Posts: 3 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 2 given, 94 received


BA 21 View Post
I somewhat know how you feel. I lost $35000 in 15 minutes back in 2017. I will never forget that sick feeling in the stomach, that feeling of despair. I quickly got over it, took the rest of my money off the table, and took a seat (a very long seat, a three year seat).

It's a learning lesson, a tough one. You'll get over it, build up your funds, and return to the arena smarter and wiser.

Yeah I feel like just taking my money and saying I'm done, but then the other part of me knows I was solidly trading there for a while so I just need to get back to that.


Thatoneguy View Post
What caused you to deviate from the process that allowed you to make solid gains for 5 months? Do you feel like that consistent success inflated your ego and created extreme overconfidence? Why don't you have some type of % risk per trade based on account size? What exactly are you trying to get revenge on, because market doesn't care who you are. You need to go back to drawing board and figure exactly what lead to your success in those 5 months. Overall it sounds like you need to focus on managing risk, so that you can survive to trade another day.

Extreme overconfidence for sure. Basically, I took a few bad trades in a row (not emotionally, just didn't workout), and it didn't seem like a big deal at the time... a $3500 loss here, then a $3000 loss, then a maybe a slightly emotional $4000 loss, few "small" $1000 losses. Then one day I realized I'm down around 15k after all these losses, that is going to take some time to get back (not compared to where I'm at now though, smart huh). I started off the day with a bad trade, went down 3k on the day. Now down 18k. So it tilts me, and I take a monster position size and actually win a trade for like 6k. Felt great, now I'm only down 12k. Just repeat what I did 2 more times and I'll be good... but as you can guess, that involves me taking a big position. Next one went against me, and I lost 10k. Down 22k. Full tilt activated and I basically kept getting back in the same trades with huge sizes full on emotional revenge trading. Losing 8-10k at a time, not giving any breathing room for the trade so just getting stopped out constantly etc. I knew I shouldn't of been doing it, but for some reason I couldn't stop myself and just thought the market would gift me. Totally ignoring all the patience and analysis I had the entire time building the account. I slipped up, and I slipped up badly. My goal was simply $300-$500 a day and it I was doing great at it. Some days were much larger, red or green. I told myself 1% a day and my account would be huge in no time, lots of people say it isn't possible, but I was basically doing it. Until now... so maybe it isn't possible lol.

I knew what I was doing at the time was wrong. I need to just smash my monitor and computer next time I try revenge trading, it'd be much cheaper in the end. I feel like I want to get back on the horse next week, and just try to accept what I've done. Be patient and realize day by day I can build the account again. I'm willing to top off the account 5k-10k more and if I blow up that 15k-20k then I'm just done for a long while. I'm not going to literally drain my bank accounts to fund my trading. I need to just start with 20k so I have a little breathing room and stick to what my plan was before. There is 7 more months left in the year, I will attempt 1% a day again and hopefully succeed back to where I was. The biggest issue is I'm trying to get my confidence back in full because it's like I told myself I wouldn't do this ever, and it paid off the entire time, I was doing great. Then I broke my rules and everything having a bad few days and I lost it all. So my confidence is shaken because what if I do end up getting back to where I was and do it again?? I knew I shouldn't of done it this time, knowing the outcome, so how do I stop myself next time since I already knew this time it was bad... gahh. I just wish the terrible feeling would pass.

Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to blew for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 994 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,499 given, 1,824 received

So you went from a $7k starting balance to $70k in the account and are now back at $10K.
I hope you at least withdrew some profit and paid yourself for your effort as you went along. Unfortunately it sounds like you didn't though.
Yes it sucks to be back down to $10k, but that is still $3k more than you started with. Most people aren't lucky enough to make a lot of money before losing a load, instead they lose all their initial capital.

Sounds like your problem is looking at your high water mark of profit and trying to revenge trade back from losing trades. Trade losses happen, you can't predict whether an individual trade is going to work or not. Seems like too much focus on trying to make 1% per day and potential profits, fixating on money made; instead of concentrating on risk management and being able to accept that some days market conditions will be good for your trading style and other days they won't. Try to make as much as you can on the good days and lose little, or stop quickly on the poor market condition days.

You don't need to put more money in to your account, you already have more than you started with last time and you managed to make profit from that quite happily.
If you add money to your account now to try and make back your money trading large size straight away that could go badly very quickly.

Depending on what class of product you are trading focus simply on starting again from scratch (not trying to make back a $60k drawdown, that money is gone and is now irrelevant to your current position). Start slowly, use micros if an option, build confidence again then increase account size again as the account grows and withdraw partial profits along the way.

Focus on trading well, whether the trade is profitable or not and switch off the computer when you aren't trading well. It is not fun to sit in front of your screen and be down money at the end of the day. But much easier to accept a small loss knowing that you can easily make it back another day, and feel contented with how you personally traded and handled yourself, than lose more than planned and feel wretched.
(All very obvious and easy in retrospect I know, and probably not suggesting anything you don't already know).

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
MrMojoRisin
Graz/Austria
 
 
Posts: 43 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 16 given, 34 received

Sonds like a pretty bad situation you're in. I'm not as far in my trading yet as you are, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
First: You have a methodology that appears to be working and you know that losing money was an emotional mistake, so you exactly know which part of your trading is the weak part and where you have to put work in. That's good news.

Like I see it, everybody has a sense of what he or she "is worth" moneywise. That's ingrained somewhere in the back of the head and is mostly unconscious. If you start to approach that sum or maybe even project your previous results into the future and see that sum in front of your inner eye, you start getting into a dilemma.
You get scared maybe of losing sense in your life, if your single goal for years was becoming successful as a trader, or it maybe separates you from your loved ones and friends by seeing all the possibilites that open up for you with a lot of money, that are not open for them.
So to prevent you from that pain, your subconscious kicks in, makes you emotional which causes you lose all that money and releases you.

I'm not really profitable yet, but what I have definitely realized is, that people I thought were good for me in my life and on the surface supported me in my trading endeavour, start to act differently the more they realize that I'm serious with what I'm doing and I have to push them away if I don't want them to sabotage me. That's a painful realization. Maybe you have such people in your life as well, you know it, but you don't want it to be true and close your eyes for that, which leads also to sabotaging yourself.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to MrMojoRisin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 Botts 
Site Moderator
Penetanguishene, Ontario, Canada
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader-8
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage, Continuum
Trading: ZB, MES, NQ, YM
 
Botts's Avatar
 
Posts: 877 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 3,463 given, 3,354 received

I agree with @matthew28, the reality is you're still up $3k from where you started.

And there is no denying you clearly have "issues" you need to address regarding the revenge trading you mentioned.

One thing you could do is have your broker wire transfer you your original $7k and then trade with the remaining $3k.

If you can manage to build your $3k account into a $30k account (without the excessive risk) good on you.

If not, at least you won't have lost your initial investment.

Good luck on your journey.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 15 users say Thank You to Botts for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart, MotiveWave
Broker: Rithmic, Dorman, Interactive Brokers
Trading: Emini, Nasdaq, DAX, Bund, IBEX
 
SBtrader82's Avatar
 
Posts: 439 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 170 given, 985 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Look at the bright side, in one way or another you managed to turn 7K to 70K which is quite impressive. Since you have experienced this, somewhere in your mind you have the state of mind and the feelings that you experienced in doing this. You should now find them and replicate the result.
I think that turning 7K to 70K is not something many traders experienced, so you are in a priviledge position.

In this regards I would like to ask you some questions, that might help me to replicate your success and take the positive side of your experience. I would like to know:
  • -how the good days looked like? how much did you use to make on good days?
  • -what did you consider as a normal "bad day"? how much you used to lose?
  • -what product and size did you trade?
  • -how much did you consider a normal gain per contract? for instance if I say to you that I made a winning trade yesterday trading NQ, which gave me 2000 USD with 15 contracts, would you consider it a good trade or not?
  • -what was your average holding time? few minutes, hours, or days?
  • -what platform did you use?

do you have some pictures of your good trades to share?

I know I am asking too many questions, but I promise that I will give you a great feedback to your answers since I blew up a couple of accounts myself.
Few days ago I gave a look at my old videos and images of trades and I realized that I was so naÔve at the time.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to SBtrader82 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
 BA 21 
Southern MD
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CTS
Broker: Advantage Futures
Trading: U.S. Treasury Futures
 
Posts: 26 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 49 received


blew View Post

...I told myself 1% a day and my account would be huge in no time, lots of people say it isn't possible, but I was basically doing it. Until now... so maybe it isn't possible lol.

...There is 7 more months left in the year, I will attempt 1% a day again and hopefully succeed back to where I was.

Instead of daily targets, have you considered monthly targets? To me, it seems that is a less restrictive target.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to BA 21 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 994 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,499 given, 1,824 received


.....Or scrap the targets and use process goals to measure your self against each day. (1. Identify a trading problem. 2. Develop a solution. 3. Determine how I will implement the solution. 4. Measure the effectiveness of the solution).
When you have been trading well the profits have managed themselves.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,492 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 49,136 given, 21,788 received

You may think this is weird, and I don't mean to make light of what happened, but I feel that it is a good milestone to have blown up an account. I have done this a couple of times, and I didn't like it one bit either, but there's an opportunity to learn here, as well as to realize that as traders, we are fallible.

The remorse and the self-blame are natural, but it would be a good idea to get past them as soon as you can. I have no idea what went wrong and will not offer any "helpful" tips, other than to have a tight control on your losses and to not do anything you wouldn't otherwise do in your trading when it goes south, all of which you know, and which is easier said than done in any case.

One thing I do suggest is that, when you feel you are able, to tell your spouse. You said you knew that she would be supportive, and support is one thing you can use right now. Plus, holding it back will do you no good in terms of coming to terms with it, and may cause you to be less open to her and add to your problems. When you can, let it out.

Other than that, feeling you are no good as a trader is not going to help you either. You did some particular, specific things, whatever they were, which did not work, and you lost control in specific ways, which also did not work. Looking at those objectively is the best thing you can do now. Making judgments about how terrible you are as a trader is not going to be helpful, because it will not lead you to doing something to correct them.

Believe me, this happens to many, or even most, traders. So make use of what you can to change for the better. You are by no means alone, and believe me that you can move ahead after this.

And good luck.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 BA 21 
Southern MD
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CTS
Broker: Advantage Futures
Trading: U.S. Treasury Futures
 
Posts: 26 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 9 given, 49 received


bobwest View Post
You may think this is weird, and I don't mean to make light of what happened, but I feel that it is a good milestone to have blown up an account....

Bob.

The sooner the better... It's better to blow up a 10k account versus a 100k account.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to BA 21 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
intradayedge
Rome ITA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 12 given, 8 received

"I finally almost blew all my profits".
I would review every trade, if you initially had strict rules it's easy to spot whenever you deviated risk management.
You need some data right now, cause overthinking won't help clearing things out.
If the methodology is a winning one, since you made money and losing big was just a matter of managing yourself, you're going to make money again, this time with an extra awareness and a new plan.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to intradayedge for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
 Fluid Fox 
Legendary Crypto Investor
Bangor, Maine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Trading: MNQ
 
Fluid Fox's Avatar
 
Posts: 623 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 2,612 given, 2,539 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Turning 7k into 70k is pretty amazing! Props to you man. I hope you can relate to this reply.

I also have a problem with revenge trading; after so many losses I just get pissed off. At some point, it starts feeling like a sick joke. I think.. How can I get this unlucky?

Getting a win becomes personal, whereas before when I was doing well, I wasn't so concerned with winning. I wasn't trying to force the markets hand to give me money because I think I deserve it after enduring so many losses.
(You most likely have a different motivation / emotional reason for revenge trading.. For example, you may not feel entitlement because of your suffering, you may feel pressure to not disappoint your wife (totally speculating, just an example).)

My state of mind changes. On top of having way lesser capacity to regulate my emotions because of becoming so internally disturbed by such a losing streak, I become negligent to what the market is signaling to me.

I lose my sound mind, and I lose my edge. I have no business trading like that..

The worst part of it is; being aware of your negative emotions and motivations and still doing the wrong thing anyway. It's emotional, unintentional self sabotage.

The only thing you can do is open the other door when you encounter this obstacle again. Walk away, take a break.. and come back and see the market with fresh eyes.

Great job with your success. Good luck to you.

There's nothing to think about.

- Mark Douglas
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Fluid Fox for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,088 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,548 given, 98,574 received


blew View Post
I canít bring myself to tell my spouse.

Just want to mention this great thread:



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
agalindoc
Querťtaro/MEXICO
 
 
Posts: 1 since Dec 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

All us must consider the MOST important thing to be a successful trader, our self's, take a look to Van K Tharp books, training and material (vantharp.com), so you will be able to work on your self and be a super trader. Believe me, this is the most important for us.

Regards
AG

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to agalindoc for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
MmmDeion
Cleveland, Ohio
 
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

A suggestion that I don't believe has been made already is to have your broker or platform but in a daily loss limit.

In Sierra Chart I know there's an option to restrict trading after you've lost $x per day. Extra form of risk management when you're thinking irrationally and too emotionally.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to MmmDeion for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 coffeeoutlaw 
pflugerville
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: mes mnq
 
Posts: 1 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

sounds like youíve just balanced yourself back out to a reasonable amount of games, if you really think youíre gonna be making 1000% gains every few months youíre going to be the richest man on the planet in a year thatís just not reasonable. You are still in the green and at a reasonable gain. You were severely over trading to try to hit 1000% gains in five months and it caught up with you, you should not expect more than 20 to 40% gains year realistically, itís possible to do more but you expect that is just setting yourself up for a loss

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to coffeeoutlaw for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 traderpards 
Longmont, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: GC, CL, TF
 
Posts: 469 since May 2011
Thanks: 186 given, 1,219 received

Thank you for that... Not many people would have the courage to put out what you just said.

I would focus on the fact you still have $10 grand left, which is what many people begin with. You've already proven you can increase that 1000 fold. Now all you have left is to prove to yourself you can keep it. You're probably a lot further along than you realize.

Trade in sim for a few weeks to make sure your system is still valid and get right back up on that proverbial horse.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to traderpards for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 spinnybobo 
Crete, IL/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Mt4
Broker: Tradestation/Tradestation, NinjaTrader, FXCM and Tallinex
Trading: ES, CL, EUR/USD, TF
 
spinnybobo's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 103 given, 59 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

don't be too hard on yourself. Trading itself is difficult and things happen quick and we still need time to grow emotionally
I noticed for myself that when I forgive myself that makes it possible for me to not repeat the same mistake or at least repeat it less
if you are too hard on yourself, sometimes that causes the pattern to repeat

forgiving puts it in the past while learning and growing wiser and also let's you be calm, grounded and centered

the harder I am on myself the more of a hole I dig which is harder to get out. Forgive and learn, this truly allows you to move forward without
bringing all of those mistakes into the future

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to spinnybobo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
 simon b 
dallas texas usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: tradestation
Trading: es
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

I am sorry you blew up , First. It happens to so many of us, and the pain and humiliation is awful. I have a few suggestions. I hope they help . 1. Forgive yourself. Its the only way to move forward, 2. Tell your wife, if you donít the feeling of shame will only grape stronger. 3. You did not respect the power of the market. Find out why. No method is fool proof, but your belief system told you other wise. I e. No one jumps off the top of a building because we know it will kill us. Almost everyone respects the power of a jump off a building too kill you and do anything they can to avoid it. Next, your trading system failed and your emotional process failed. What are you going to change that is actionable so this does not happen again. Is you donít answer those questions, you run the risk of doing it all over again. (I have, sucked worse the second time). Lately, you u be using too much leverage. Very common on small accounts where traders are trying to making as living off a small stack. Be honest with your self. You can come back. Make the changes necessary and improve. Literally the only thing to do. I have been doing this for 25 years. Getting back up is the part that counts. I all the best. S.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to simon b for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 Kelko100 
Toronto Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

Read "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas. Very helpful for understanding the psychology and impulses that lead to blown accounts and how to avoid them.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Kelko100 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
TheProblemSolver
Oak Grove, MO USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since May 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

You are in good company. I know "Professional Traders that have done the exact same thing. These are some helps/suggestions.
1. First and foremost Have your trading rules P O S T E D next to your trading computer. Read it everyday prior to trading.
2. Trade with a partner. Agree with the partner to "Review" your trade prior to placing it. If it does not conform to your Trading Rules. DO NOT TAKE THE TRADE. If your partner does not agree with the trade, DO NOT TAKE THE TRADE.
3. ALWAYS USE STOPS. Only risk 1% of your account or less.
4. Trade Sim until you are profitable again.
5. Know when you are getting out before getting in. Know your target and stops and calculate the risk prior to executing the trade.
6. Remember and execute the first 5 rules.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to TheProblemSolver for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 SLMacKellar 
Rio Vista + CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation, NinjaTrader
Trading: CL, NQ
 
Posts: 5 since May 2016
Thanks: 1 given, 12 received

I have done (on a smaller scale) what you have done many times. It is my biggest trading weakness. I went from 3k to 40k in a few weeks, then gave it back within hours.

I am working on it. But what I do know is that it is that first loss, which is so unexpected since I have been doing so well, that triggers everything. I fight the market and the crash is inevitable.

So now I know the trigger. I am watching for it. I have been able to pull back a couple of times once I have had a loss and go on to trade well.

For me I notice a few things. Never fight the market. Use a higher time frame. Set profit goals more realistically. Use larger stops. And never, ever use the reverse button.

Hope this helps. But it is an ongoing struggle.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to SLMacKellar for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
 maartenb 
Boston MA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TWS, Python, AMI, MC
Broker: IB, TS
Trading: Eq, FX
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 13 given, 2 received

Sorry to hear about situation. Are you familliar with Van Tharps work? If not I highly recommend you check him out.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to maartenb for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
 Bgmcm 
New Orleans LA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: eminis
 
Posts: 5 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 1 given, 7 received

Hi blew sorry to hear that bit of news. So tell me did you keep a journal of your trades?
Wins? Losses?

Do you think you over traded?

What about your stops, did you use any stop loss levels?

These are the type of questions i would be going over in my mind.
Also did you pay yourself at the end of the trading week taking some wins out of your account?

I would start with these questions and i think you will see some things come to the surface. This way the losses can be corrected.
Hope this helps you.
Take care.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bgmcm for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
walter739
Caracas
 
 
Posts: 22 since Sep 2020
Thanks: 112 given, 10 received

I share your pain, I am going through the same, with less amounts but just as painful, I still do not recover psychologically, I operate very little, I do not perform my risk management well. That stage of mine of losses that I think that all traders at some point happens to them is "the guy of back" whatever you do, it seems that someone in the back sees you and makes the operation go in the opposite direction, and it lasts a long time , something that seemed incredible to me and I also increased positions because I thought it could not happen that I lost so many times in a row, but I learned by the hard way that it does. I don't think that's your case, but a worse ending awaits those who make martingale. Good luck in your recovery, if with 7k you did 70k, you are very good, so clean dust yourself off and go ahead managing the risk.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to walter739 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
three86
Vista, California USA
 
 
Posts: 14 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 23 received

If you are upset about losing money or happy about making X thousand percent both is emotional trading. Your trading should not change based on either. If you start trading differently because of a win or because of a loss instead of reacting to the market (or whatever your system is) that is a red flag problem.

That said one way to deal with it is to trade with very high leverage and a very small account balance. For example $500 mini or $50 micro per contract daytrade margin you can trade with a few thousand like it is 10x. Yeah it is double edge and you might (will?) blow up occasionally but at least they will take you out then you have to cool down while waiting to transfer more in. Even with just a couple micro you can make $500+/day (or lose it with bad trading). Eventually you will figure it out. Mentally that is easier and makes blowing up not as emotionally devastating. You could limit yourself to $1k per week max deposit so the most you could lose is $52k/year (or scale that to whatever fits). The most you could make is unlimited especially if you are doing 1000%. When you get above a threshold you also have to transfer out of the account to keep the potential blowup small.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to three86 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
fxSOL
Belgrade Serbia
 
 
Posts: 32 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 16 given, 13 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Think you said it all - revenge, too big of position , comfortable. Think we all have walked same path as you, and sometimes I try to learn of my misstakes but its money and it makes you greedy and you increase risk which will eventually make the dog bark back at you. A big loss makes you try to "win" it back and you take higher risks.

If I am not misstaken, you still have funds left? More than you started with? So in a sense you are still in profit =)
The hard work you put it we all have done. See it as a schooling for something bigger...think positive!

For profits we must work extremly hard, for losses we don't have to do nothing it hits you like a sledge-hammer from no-where.

I can tell you this - I have never ever worked this hard in my life when it comes to trading. All the time invested and learning and MONEY. Yet I love what I do, even though my track-record has been for the past 5-6 years not so good. Its only for the last year that things have cleared up and I have understood some things.
All the money lost, all the time "invested" I see it as "schooling".

Go slow, a turtle will win the race and minimize the risk and losses. Have a risk strategy and follow it like the course of the sun.

Never give up! Cheer up m8!

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to fxSOL for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
zecarlos
portugal
 
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2018
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

I lost several accounts with revenge trades until i realized i really cant control it. The solution for my problem was very easy: i asked my wife to change the password on my rithmic software and put a daily loss limit. After that my trading improved a lot.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to zecarlos for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
Cals
puchong, malaysia
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 38 given, 14 received

You did well my friend for building up such an account,
sorry to hear that, what you have encountered on the turn.

yes telling the wife what you went through would help you lessen the load you are carrying, they will understand.

Seen written, you went through tilt, realizing it is already half the battle won and you did wrote a whole lot of emotion in it in explaining, i would suggest a process circuit breaker, my mentor did one for me in some of my journeys,
ie if in a 3 loss row, or if in a loss wait 30 mins rebalance.

Would suggest there is a thread from george about how he worked on himself within. I know the part george mentioned emotion code helped to tame the inner demons in me and help me be a better trader everyday on the way.

Hope this helps and never give up.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Cals for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
 jrob6519 
sville sc
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8
Broker: PCAP
Trading: ES, GS, CL
 
Posts: 13 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 14 received

Not to be the Debbie Downer, BUT how are you sure that you have skills as a trader?
Because if you were majority long in this run up, well that doesn't take much skill as luck..But when the volatility came in that seems to have blown you up..So for me it would be to see if I can identify that I do have an age and if so right the rules out and follow them religiously and conservatively.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to jrob6519 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
 tradepips 
Sacramento, CA USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts
Trading: YM, ES
 
Posts: 95 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 165 given, 56 received


blew View Post
I knew what I was doing at the time was wrong. I need to just smash my monitor and computer next time I try revenge trading, it'd be much cheaper in the end.

I have struggled a lot with blowing up accounts in the past.

I have no confidence in my ability to stop revenge trading. So, I currently set these safeguards in place:


1. Work at building good trading habits on a daily basis. The more structure and rules I have for trading the less likely I am to veer off and try something risky.
2. Use a platform (or broker) that will shut down after losing a pre-set loss amount.
3. Withdraw profits systematically so that should I disable my platform from shutting down so that I continue to revenge trade and do blow the account, I will have kept some profits.

I'm considering taking your advice and adding a 4th safeguard: 4. Smash my monitor and computer next time I try revenge trading.
(But only when I'm trading large enough amounts that it will be cheaper in the end. That's not the case right now.)


Thank you for being transparent enough to share your story with us. I hope you'll update us someday and share with us how you succeeded in overcoming revenge trading and made back all your losses and much, much more!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tradepips for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
mluka
Montrťal, Canada
 
 
Posts: 27 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 10 given, 9 received

Two "suggestions":
  1. Back to sim for a while
  2. Back to "don't care" position size for a while

Good luck!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to mluka for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
 Deetee 
Amsterdam
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader / IB /Bookmap
Broker: EdgeClear / InteractiveBrokers / Rithmic / dxFeed
Trading: DAX / (M)NQ / (M)ES
 
Posts: 218 since Jul 2019
Thanks: 1,514 given, 343 received

@blew I'm sorry to hear.

Start small, increase size when your profits allow it. Decrease size when your balance gets below a predetermined level.

More important, be honest and tell your spouse. Make her aware of your 'mistake', so going forward you don't have to misinform her, and can share the truth, about how your day is going.

You'll be ok.
Good luck

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Deetee for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
 Oriole 
Naples FLA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader 8
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: Currency Futures, RTY, ES, NQ
 
Oriole's Avatar
 
Posts: 88 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 195 given, 63 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

I'm so sorry to hear that happened. I ran my IRA from $140K to $300K and then lost it all. I ran my wife's IRA from $25K to $100K and lost it all. Then to top it off, I borrowed $50K from our home equity line and lost that all too. Fortunately, we made really good money and it's not affecting us but I know I'd have an extra million or so bucks in my IRA but for that S Show.

That was over 25 years ago but a lesson I constantly remember to try and keep myself in check. Over the years, trading turned into an addiction for me that caused loss of sleep and an obsession with checking trades at all hours of the day and night. I HATED it and decided something had to change.

Over the last few years, I've evolved to risk-defined options trading and selling premium. Low stress, lower risk, the market is NOT open 24 hours a day and I'm not staring at screens all day and all night. Futures trading just didn't fit with what I wanted my life to be. I have no advice other than futures and high-risk trading does not fit everyone's personality. Lots of smarter folks than me will chime in here to help you. Best wishes!

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Oriole for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
spindo84
london uk
 
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Firstly look at the whole journey as a process theyíll be plenty of up and downs along the way.

Assuming your strategy is profitable and thatís backed up with stats over 100+ trades that shows your strategy has an edge then you already know the issue is fundamentally risk management & discipline.

Itís easy to have a risk management process in place and say oh Iíll only risk x amount per trade or this is my daily loss limit etc the hardest part in trading IMO is the discipline to stick to it.

That side of the game is pure in your own head, itís you vs the guy in the mirror. You already know and said you shouldnít have revenge traded but you did anyway. Why?? Again you know why lol Ö after the fact.

In trading everyone says trade without emotion but thatís impossible!! You went from 10k to 70k no doubt it was overconfidence, sizing up etc etc all that has an effect on how you perceive risk, a trade that seems so risky to you now at 10k balance and after the blow up, I bet you wouldnít have hesitated to take before.

The skill is in learning to recognize your own mind, where youíll fight against yourself and where you are on the scale of scared to trade vs overconfidence before you enter each trade.

Id highly recommend as the poster above said Van Tharpe and definitely have a read of Market Mind games by Denise Shull.

As for getting back the temptation will be to size up. Maybe the opposite is better, take a little break to get a clearer perspective, size down get a few winning trades under your belt to get your confidence back up then trade as you were before. This time being more mindful of the risk and discipline.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to spindo84 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
 samasthiti 
Montreal QC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts
Broker: AMP Futures, CQG
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 15 since Aug 2018
Thanks: 14 given, 18 received

"The Mental Game of Trading" by Jared Tendler is a practical guide to improve your mental game.

Becoming a professional trader will require a lot of work on yourself. Smaller size or setting limits at your brokers, things like that, will not make you a better trader. These are just crutches.

You need to correct the deep-seated, fundamental flaws in your mental game.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to samasthiti for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
hclara
Bangor Maine
 
 
Posts: 26 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 16 given, 22 received

I am also sorry for your loss , most of us have had those losses to some degree or another . I blew 2 accounts years ago mostly because I had no idea what I was doing and up against . My wife and I both had good jobs so I never traded with money I couldn't afford to lose . I went back to sim trading to figure things out and did just that . I can't tell you how many times I wanted to quit but like you I loved trading . My biggest improvement came when I decided never to risk more than 1 per cent of my account on any one trade and (ALWAYS) using stop losses . My wife has always been supportive through the ups and downs so that helped me to keep going . You will keep going over what and how it happened and figure how to proceed onward . It was a tough lesson but you will learn from it and come out better on the other side . Thanks for sharing this as it helps all of us to keep things in perspective .

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to hclara for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
 TRADERRON 
west palm beach
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Jigsaw Daytradr
Trading: nq & mnq
 
Posts: 3 since Mar 2017
Thanks: 6 given, 18 received

Every system that relies on the mental capacity of a single human being will fail at some point. You must accept this as a truth.

So yes you can work on your discipline to improve it but still, eventually, the system will fail. Improving your discipline can decrease the failure rate from once per month, to once every 6 months, to once every year, to once every 2 years and so on. But eventually, there will be a failure. So you need to accept it and also prepare for it happening and thus minimize the effect.

The way to minimize the effect of the inevitable failure of the system is to withdraw money from the account. Thus, when the system fails, you have already taken out a lot of the profit and don't end up giving it all back.

For example, I take out 50% of my profit every month and move it to another investing account that normal investors use, i.e., etfs mutual funds etc. Even if i have a losing month, I don't try to make that money back before I start withdrawing again. If I lose the money it's gone. If I have a winning month, I take out 50%. By doing something like this, you can still scale up but when you have your mental failure (if it doesn't happen to often), you will not only minimize your loss but you will see that you have a substantial amount of your profits socked away.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to TRADERRON for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
MH358
Austin
 
 
Posts: 4 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 16 received

You may or not find this useful, but some Big Picture Truths:

1) Trading the markets is about *Emotions*...not linear, logical thinking. You've seen that. But do you believe it, really? I ask because I've been there, done that...and far, far worse. Fact: Your emotional health is everything. Do not trade when tired, angry, etc. [See Denise Shull, "Market Mind Games"]

2) Have you researched (fact-based) "principles" for what the markets are all about...i.e., their fundamental (true) nature? Have you written them down? I ask because principles are essential to understanding anything. If you don't understand the markets, they can and will create *ruin*. Fact.

3) FWIW, below -- in my own words -- are a few of my Truths (principles) for what the markets are all about...and confirmed (for the purposes of my own perspective) via WSJ Gregory Zuckerman's "The Man Who Solved the Markets" regarding Jim Simons, Renaissance Technologies and their Medallion Fund:

(a) "Money isn't everythingÖBUT often we behave as if it is, and without sufficient regard as to how untrue that is." (e.g., the impact on Jim Simons' personal life...and certainly my own)

(b) "Whether for GOOD or for BAD outcomesÖthe UTILITY of the markets is like anything else: It is WHOLLY a function of the INTENTIONS & AWARENESS & CONSCIOUSNESS of the "user." That said, markets are inherently CONFISCATORY in the short-run."

(c) "CONFISCATION of others' profits occurs by BREAKING STOPS: "regression" and "return to Signal" price behavior that *overshoots* all recent local highs or local lowsÖ*then* regresses. This is *Alpha Destruction*...the reason that markets exist. Proper Signal entry AND position retention are made impossible without experiencing Loss at some point." [Key info: --> See Rishi Ganti's presentation on YouTube, "The Future of Liquid Markets"]

(d) "Markets today are fundamentally a band of PIRATES: PREDATORY and CONFISCATORY in Nature. They predate upon: (1) "Alpha" (other's profits and/or monetary resources), and (2) Predictable and probabilistic human psychology...and counter to these humans' interests."

(e) "Markets today are designed to CONFISCATE others' profits by substituting them with either LOSSES or alpha-destruction (AD), especially in the SHORT-TERM. The Why & How: "The money has to come from SOMEWHEREÖand there are MARKERS for others' POSITIONS."

(f) "Markets CAN and WILL EXHAUST a human being's decision-making ability, which will default to REFLEX behaviorÖwhich WILL be WRONGÖFREEZE...or be TOO SLOW to respond to losses. And this will be EXPENSIVE."

(g) "Markets today are automated and DO NOT TIRE of taking others' money, and PROFITABLY RELY upon consistent, persistent and COMPULSIVE human behavior -- especially WHEN triggered by anger and outrage -- in order to confiscate their monetary resources."

(h) "Markets CAN and WILL *PERSIST in their CONFISCATION* far beyond any individual's ability to sustain losses: The strongest, MOST "RESILIENT" individual who INSISTS upon UNAUGMENTED HUMAN BEHAVIOR while trading is the one who will be RUINED."

(i) "Markets CAN and WILL *INCITE* an individual to emotionally RIOT upon LOSSESÖmaking those losses FAR worse."

(j) "Markets CAN and WILL *PROVOKE* an individual to emotionally RIOT upon "IRRATIONAL" behavior in market pricing. The LESS sense a market makesÖthe STRONGER the move can be. *MARKETS ARE NON-LINEARÖNOT LINEAR.*"

I have more, but I'll stop there. And having said all that, I do still develop systematic managed futures systems for my own personal use, but I no longer have any illusions about what the markets are, nor what my role is (and what that makes me) by continuing to play in them. They're not nice. And neither am I (when trading).

An excerpt from "The Man Who Solved the Markets" -- a description of an art piece in Jim Simons' office:

"On his wall was a rather gruesome painting of a lynx feasting on a rabbit."

Reply With Quote
The following 15 users say Thank You to MH358 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
 MNSTrading 
Grand Rapids, Michigan
 
Experience: None
Platform: IBKR
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Russell, Coffee, Oil, Gold
 
MNSTrading's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Nov 2015
Thanks: 15 given, 73 received

I trade with options now. Absolute worst case scenario i lose the entire value of the option, which is typically 1.5% of my capital. Also makes you immune to gaps or getting your stop blown past. I miss the simplicity of trading contracts but not the headache. If I lose the entire value of the option (which seldom happens) I absolutely donít care. Sometimes Iím even happy because Iíve learned something. After five years trading is finally a bit tame for me. It is a job after all and getting mad at the boss (the market) is pointless. Because the market is largely random, most systems donít work. It is very hard to be consistently profitable. Most traders should just put their money in an index fund and get a job.Because of turbulence and fat tails, black swan events can crush you. Ask Long Term Capital about that.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to MNSTrading for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
rocketman
Dallas, Texas
 
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

The operable word is discipline. When I trade I write this word on my
Monitor and occasionally view and use it to guide me.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
 MiamiTrader 
Miami FL/US
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 30 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 34 received

I think you need to take the "excitement" out of trading and the only way I know how to do that is to position size correctly (i.e. limit bet to 1-2% of stack or whatever is appropriate for your style). Continue scaling up and down like a robot.

Then find a hobby that allows you to release / deal with emotions you enjoy that don't involve $$$ (e.g. sky diving) to get "your fix".

Now you're happy because you have $$$ and excitement. Just pray your parachute never fails.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to MiamiTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Trading: NQ, CL
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 
Posts: 866 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 610 given, 1,077 received

Took many of us a few accounts before we had "what not to do" seared into our trading DNA. Cold sweat revenge trading followed by fetal position in closet very painful. But can be a powerful teacher.. There is a part of me I make sure remembers pain of blowing up accounts, so when I am tempted to break my rules I stop. I have found if I break my rules once very hard not to break again which usually has bad consequences.

Word of encouragement you can recover and be a better trader in the long run

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to liquidcci for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
 Flow1 
GenŤve GenŤve/Switzerland
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Daytradr
Trading: Emini ES Futures
 
Posts: 3 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 4 received

What does that say about you ?

That you need to work on risk management.

You canít go 1000% return without taking huge risks.

Itís not randomly that hedge funds, private banks, investment
banks, prop firms have risk Departments that do only that
and control/manage the traders.. think about it..

Thanks for sharing, good luck and donít be to hard with
yourself we all did it, more or less.. Learn new ways to trade and stick to your risk rules, always.

Cheers





blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Flow1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8, Bookmap
Trading: ES, MES
 
Posts: 160 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 74 given, 149 received


blew View Post
The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it.

These two sentences are everything in a nutshell. These sentences simultaneously represent power and weakness. So what?

These qualities of yours are power when they serve you well and weaknesses when they disserve you. Grit is when you succeed, stubbornness is when you fail. Otherwise, they are identical. The same is true with confidence vs cockiness.

The same is true when trading is a part of you.

So how does knowing that help you?

First, know that you have the knowledge/understanding/skills to succeed and make money. Never doubt this.

Second, know that what makes you capable of winning equally makes you capable of losing (personal ability is exactly like leverage). Never doubt this.

Third, and most important, you have got to be able to recognize when your personal abilities are disserving you; i.e., when you're being stubborn and not gritty, cocky and not confident. When you're living in dreamland, not reality. Always have an alarm system. When it starts ringing, stop trading live, revert to sim.

-=-

I'm sure you're looking for some wise wisdom from up high on the mountain top. But the simple truth is that you stopped listening to your warning system. The fire alarm rang and you went back to sleep in the dreamland where you had it all figured out. Real life is never that dreamland. You got lazy and cocky. That's it.

How do you fix it? Don't get effing lazy and cocky. Have an alarm system, and heed it when it goes off.

This isn't complicated. Don't make it complicated.

I love you man. I do. You messed up. It may take a while to get back in the saddle, or maybe not. Even then, it may take a while until you ride like you used to. That's fine. Whatever. But you can clearly ride.

Start back trading again on Monday...this Monday. Don't fall victim to thinking you are in control of what happens to you. You only control your own behavior.

Bottom line, have an alarm. When the alarm rings, stop trading live. Revert to sim for that day and the next day. If a weekly alarm goes off, stop live trading for the remainder of the week. Go sim, then go back to live. If you need to, repeat. Every time the daily or weekly smoke alarm goes off, stop trading live and go to sim. Always heed your alarms.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to fivewhy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
 grayfrog 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 42 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 42 given, 12 received

It happens. I've gone 40K to 400K back to 10K........In fact, I've done this a number of times.....

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to grayfrog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
 momumtumfollower 
Burlington, ON, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Trading: CL,ES
 
Posts: 1 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

I haven't heard anyone who didn't experience the same.

You are not the only one.

You are now a stronger trader.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to momumtumfollower for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
Northernlimit
Toronto Canada
 
 
Posts: 52 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 4 given, 105 received

Reality Distortion Problem

You are getting a lot of advice, but it appears you don't have a trading strategy problem. Other than the fact that 7K to 70k in a few months may be unrealistic, so your initial decline of 18k maybe quite normal, but you definitely have an emotional problem. Your emotions are tied to your performance, which you really need to objectify. This means your up periods make you as emotionally out of balance and as your down periods, that's why you lost what you made. If you have big up period you need to take a break and get yourself "re-centered" to reality by getting away from the screen. Different people need different ways of doing it, but you need to find a way to connect to the fact that the money is real with important risk costs being incurred. Maybe take some money out and go on a week trip with your girlfriend somewhere with no internet, or do some volunteer work with the less fortunate, get a hobby, build something, whatever works to get mind clear. Most career traders will tell you that they have gone through the same as you, it's part of the process of trading evolution and personal development. I believe what makes good traders is that they see a reality that others don't. What makes bad traders is that they don't see reality at all, i.e. they are basically gambling. You need to make sure you maintain an acute sense of reality.

Hope this helps.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Northernlimit for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
 bluedot 
fingerlakes, NY state
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: ninjatrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

I know from experience how that loss smarts. I recently went through it on a smaller scale dropping my micro account by a third. Didn't matter the size of the account, to the emotions it was a reliving of the pain of a much larger loss in a previously blown account. The way I dealt with it was to drop any contact with sims or live trading for a few days and take time to heal. I had to get away long enough to not be swayed by the negative thoughts. We are all wired different and have different ways of dealing with loss be it it trading or other life events.
I think when this happens time is your friend. It takes time to absorb this experience of the trading journey, in order to regroup and learn from what just happened. In my case I overtraded and sized up with the sting of a few losses. I was watching for the revenge trade, made a couple of good trades and should have stopped there but didn't and slid down the slippery slope finally ending up with the big down day. It all happened quickly with the blinders on the eyes before I could finally shut the computer off.

So the big lesson from this one for me was STOP trading and check rules of entry and management if I loose on 2 consecutive trades in a row. I know this is specific to me in my trading development at this time but it is one of the takeaways that I remember from that experience.

I see it as a brake check to at least slow down the tendency to overtrade.

After I accepted that loss I found I could move on and be open to learning again, taking micro trades not concentrating on the financial reward but on the proper execution of the trade.

I wish you well on your journey

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to bluedot for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
LotusTrading
basel switzerland
 
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2019
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

First: It's OK, I think many of us did shit like that...

Second: be honest with yourself... It's easy to say "I'll trade small, I'll be patient, I won't over trade etc" then you grow your 10k to 12, say in a week or two; and next thing you know, you doing shit again!!!

there are no clear answers, it's also about how does one trade. do you do mean reversion and add to "loosers" , do it smaller... do you do fixed profits and fixed targets: be more patient , trade less, etc

whatever you do, say to your spouse... if she is supportive all the better, if she is not, beware that it doesn't grudge... don't "blame yourself" but own it, take responsibility!
easy come easy go... look at the good site of it: you still have 10k... I did that shit several times and to complete destruction.
once it takes hold of you, you have to take two steps back before you come back...

stop trading few weeks or so. give your password to your wife, when you in "emotional" danger she don't log you in... lol

I mean there are basically three things you need to do:

Stay away from market till you fully digest it.
Think it over: do you want to keep trading? can you do it? can you manage risk? can you walk away when it's to crazy to bare next time instead of keep throwing darts on the dark (revenge trading)...
if you go back to trading, remember your "insights" and mental boundaries you set upon yourself as a condition to keep trading...

good luck

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to LotusTrading for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
 dddpope 
CAMERON, MISSOURI
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Thinkorswim
Trading: Emin ES
 
Posts: 2 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received

WOW, I know you are hurting and I hope I never have to go there. I would like to make two points. 1. You may have just saved many good people the pain you have experienced with your post. I personally want to thank you for giving me a heads up that may save me a lot of anguish. I mean this and I am hurting with you. I start with 5K over a year ago, added to it when I had the funds, and was doing real good until I got stuck in a contract in March 2020 and lost most of it. Started over in April 2020 and now have made over 90K. Like you I worked very hard to get here. Reading over 30 books, watching multiple videos and hours of research. Now, because of you, and this post, I have a better chance of keeping it. THANK YOU!!!! 2. I have a young friend that has just started investing. He has bragged that he is out preforming the Market by 6%. He is very conservative by our standards but thrilled none the less. You, in 5 months have taken 7K to 10K, for a increase of 42.857%. That's 102.847% per year on average. I guess it can be a matter of perspective. Good Job.

Doug

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to dddpope for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
 seattle7 
Seattle, WA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation + Bookmap
Trading: ES only
 
Posts: 24 since Aug 2016
Thanks: 13 given, 59 received

My condolences.

Join the club.

In my opinion, you're paying your dues.

I don't know any successful trader who hasn't blown up at least one account, and often more, sometimes many more.

I concur with the recommendation of another responder --- Read Mark Douglas, "Trading in the Zone."

You can get it on Amazon-Kindle for approx. $15 & if my experience is any guide, it will be $15 well spent.

My best to you in your recovery.

You are not alone at all.

Just one more hurdle to overcome to become a consistently profitable trader (and a more integrated and complete human being).

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to seattle7 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
 captainquenta 
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Broker: Tradovate
Trading: NQ
 
Posts: 10 since Jul 2016
Thanks: 8 given, 35 received

There is not a single profitable trader who has not done what you have done. Trading is a career weighed and measure by how long you can survive doing it. What you are experiencing will happen again. And again. It is human nature to experience loss aversion - but I'd recommend one thing.

Therapy.

If there's a shortcut to profitability, therapy might be it. When you get that fear factor rolling in, it's an entirely physiological response that you can't just 'will' yourself out of. The amygdala sends an alert to the hypothalamus and it shuts off your frontal lobes - the logical and reasoning center - so that you can fight your way out of the crisis or run away from it for your dear life. The trick is become aware of what triggers it for you before you fall victim to the lizard part of your brain.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to captainquenta for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
 makusan 
Long Beach, CA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures
 
makusan's Avatar
 
Posts: 43 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 37 received


blew View Post
The problem is trading is now apart of my identity.

I'm a trading psych coach and have heard this time and time again. "90% of people fail because they spend 90% of their time on the 10% of trading (mechanics)...and 10% of their time on the 90% of trading (personal psychology). The source of the issue was there before you started trading. Not knowing "thy self" will result in not know when to "not" trade. Trading is a activity you engage in...NOT who you "are". I can only recommend that you seek out a psychology professional, who either knows about trading or also trades themselves and start doing your personal work. -namaskaram

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to makusan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
 makusan 
Long Beach, CA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures
 
makusan's Avatar
 
Posts: 43 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 37 received


captainquenta View Post
There is not a single profitable trader who has not done what you have done. Trading is a career weighed and measure by how long you can survive doing it. What you are experiencing will happen again. And again. It is human nature to experience loss aversion - but I'd recommend one thing.

Therapy.

If there's a shortcut to profitability, therapy might be it. When you get that fear factor rolling in, it's an entirely physiological response that you can't just 'will' yourself out of. The amygdala sends an alert to the hypothalamus and it shuts off your frontal lobes - the logical and reasoning center - so that you can fight your way out of the crisis or run away from it for your dear life. The trick is become aware of what triggers it for you before you fall victim to the lizard part of your brain.

Well said Captain Quenta!!!! Exactly!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
fxzen
Toronto Canada
 
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 6 given, 6 received


samasthiti View Post
"The Mental Game of Trading" by Jared Tendler is a practical guide to improve your mental game.

Becoming a professional trader will require a lot of work on yourself. Smaller size or setting limits at your brokers, things like that, will not make you a better trader. These are just crutches.

You need to correct the deep-seated, fundamental flaws in your mental game.

I just wanted to second this book. I've read all the popular psychology books, some many times over, and watched tons of videos from ones like Steenbarger et al, and this book blows them all away. It's not just a book about theory but gives you practical tools to build an system to improve your mental and emotional game.

Knowing why your emotional mind takes over doesn't prevent it from happening - you need to develop the emotional skills to identify the signals before it takes over and renders your logical mind useless, and this book can help you do that.

You need to do the deep work, this isn't a quick fix, but can give you the understanding, the tools and a plan to get there.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to fxzen for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
 delux9 
Lake Worth Florida USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 13 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 29 given, 14 received

When I started trading I had boom and bust results. Turns out when I dug down, my strategy was not as good as I thought it was. If I took a trade and was right, great! If I was wrong I doubled down until I was right. The nice thing about this is it makes money most of the time. The bad part is one day you blow up your account in 15 minutes.

Thereís a lot psychologically to unpack here as others have eluded to but one thing I will echo is to set a daily loss limit with your broker. Thereís absolutely no reason not to. If the most youíre willing to lose in a day is $1000, set it at $1000. Or if you hate having a daily loss limit, think itís pointless, and the most your willing to lose is $1000, set it at $2000. At least that way if you hit it, you know you really screwed up. Better than losing 10x that. Itís possible for the best of us to have months of discipline, then one day go on full tilt, chimp mode, etc. One interesting thing Iíve noticed about myself is once I set a daily loss limit, Iíve hit it only a handful of times in years. I think it keeps me honest knowing I need to stick to a plan and use risk management rather than doubling down and sizing up until Iím right and ďget back to evenĒ.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to delux9 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
 Sandpaddict 
Langley
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 
Posts: 452 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 565 given, 390 received


BA 21 View Post
Instead of daily targets, have you considered monthly targets? To me, it seems that is a less restrictive target.

Of all the advice... which you already know I think this might be the one you need the most next to a MAX position size relative to your account. That will keep those revenge trades to a minimum.

Because something went wrong here.

10 losses in a row is never out of the realm of possibility. Lets do the math.

Let's say you took a %4 loss on every trade from the equity peak of 70k.

1 70k loss $2800
2 67.2 loss $2688
3 64.5 loss $2580
4 61.9 loss $2477
5 59.5 loss $2378
6 57 loss $2283
7 54.7 loss $2192
8 52.6 loss $2104
9 50.5 loss $2020
10 48.5 loss $1939

Total after ten trades in a row trading at a %4 stoploss on each leaves you before commissions and fees $46,538.

And NO ones going to tell you to daytrade at %4 capitol unless they have an ulterior motive.

MAX should be like one percent. Maybe half a percent or less could be better if your still emotionally trading. (Not everyone CAN trade that small but not everyone SHOULD trade either)

Let's take it a step farther. Let say you bet $2800 EVERYTIME (%4 of equity peak) and took those same 10 losses in a row!

You'd be down to $42,000. %60 from peak equity. Now that is EXTREME but using money management even absolutely terrible money management would have kept you far from losing so much. And man, I'm so sorry. Been there over and over myself!

Money management and NOT trading alone is whats going to keep you in the game. Now I know that sound obvious but it's key.

Now the hard part. Want to know why trading is so hard? It's because it's ASYMMETRIC.

You want to go from 50k to 75k. But once you start it's quite possible you start in a drawdown. So you go from 50k to 25k. The problem is at 50k you only needed ab%50 gain. Once at 25k you need %200 gain!!! Plus commissions and fees.

This all just comes back to the importance of money management. Sometimes the best offence is a good defense.

You clearly are an EXCEPTIONAL trader based on the numbers quoted. I cannot see that being an accident.

Put your trades in a longer percpective, weekly and monthly like stated above then each loss won't melt your brain as it's ONLY ONE trade this week or month.

Keep strict money management rules (less than %1) and you can still trade badly and be OK for those times when you have those exceptional times.

I hope you all the best as that was viscerally upsetting to read! I've been there many... many times but never to that extreme.

Take care.

Joseph

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Sandpaddict for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
 
Posts: 208 since Dec 2016
Thanks: 122 given, 131 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k.

Hello blew,

Be careful who you listen to and what you read about your trading.

All this advice you are getting is probably from non-profitable traders, so be carefully.

So what is the problem? You started with $7K and now account balance is $10K. Your return on the year is 42.8% which is greater than SP500 index returns to date. The people giving you advice probably never even beat the SP500 index before any year.


You have edge so far.

Also, you are a discretionary trader so just keep on trading what you see and what you think works. Yes that include revenge trading. Trade exactly the same way you did to get to $70K, even if it include revenge trading, emotional trading, mad trading, sleeping trading, over position sizing. Just trade and have fun.

You over position sizing and took on more risk because you want to make alot of damn money in trading in a fast amount of time. Nothing wrong with that at all. I would hire you in heart beat if I had a trading firm. You be the person I hire first.

I would not change a thing if I was you and damn sure would not listen to anyone who never even made $70K in 5 months.


P.S. I am non-profitable day trader and probably should not be giving trading advice. So take my advice as such.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to goodoboy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
 sigmatrader 
Blythe, CA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader7 and 8
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: CL, GC, UB
 
Posts: 62 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 47 given, 59 received

Without any details of Blew's trading methodology, even if he follows the 6 pages of helpful, meaningful advice he is still likely to make the same trading mistakes. The result may be slower and smaller controlled losses, but the account would still erode away following the risk management and psychology. After a detailed analysis of his style and pinpointing possible strategy failings he might try using OPM(other people's money) from one of the numerous funding sources such as TopStepTrader, E2T, or LooLoo. Just taking a wild guess at his entries I am guessing his entries were such that he became a trapped trader and was stopped out....signs of a beginner trader. Or he was trading in noise with insufficient trend momentum to take him into profits. Thus, the suggestion is to do some study on order flow and rate of change momentum to pick smarter entries and exits. For starters, the March 2021 issue of Technical Analysis of Stocks & Commodities has an article on Rate of Change with Bands for most trading platforms. Basically it uses a normalized ROC with some smoothing and some bands that show price exhaustion. Use of the bands and the zero line of the ROCWB is the trick. For the trapped trader study he would need to learn to read footprint patterns and exhaustion patterns if he wants to nail the entries with confidence.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sigmatrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
 Fatfish 
South Africa
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP, CQG
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 18 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 54 given, 22 received

Hi Blew,

I'm sorry to hear this. I know it is painful and could feel threatening if you have some important goals tied to trading success.

I have only one suggestion:

Having started with the 7k;

- what would the runup have been been if you always bet 1% of your capital, per trade?
- what would the current drawdown have been if you maintained a 1% bet size during the drawdown?

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Fatfish for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
 Sandpaddict 
Langley
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 
Posts: 452 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 565 given, 390 received


goodoboy View Post
Hello blew,

Be careful who you listen to and what you read about your trading.

All this advice you are getting is probably from non-profitable traders, so be carefully.

So what is the problem? You started with $7K and now account balance is $10K. Your return on the year is 42.8% which is greater than SP500 index returns to date. The people giving you advice probably never even beat the SP500 index before any year.


You have edge so far.

Also, you are a discretionary trader so just keep on trading what you see and what you think works. Yes that include revenge trading. Trade exactly the same way you did to get to $70K, even if it include revenge trading, emotional trading, mad trading, sleeping trading, over position sizing. Just trade and have fun.

You over position sizing and took on more risk because you want to make alot of damn money in trading in a fast amount of time. Nothing wrong with that at all. I would hire you in heart beat if I had a trading firm. You be the person I hire first.

I would not change a thing if I was you and damn sure would not listen to anyone who never even made $70K in 5 months.


P.S. I am non-profitable day trader and probably should not be giving trading advice. So take my advice as such.

I would caution here.

As goodoboy is probably right you probably mabe outsized bets to make outsized gains.

No issues with that but losses have to be controlled like a scientist

Your "Risk Adjusted Returns" need to be looked at otherwise risk of ruin is high and eventually guaranteed.

It's just so heartbreaking to hear you go from 70k to 13k.

Why go through that again?

Hope all is well enough considering.

You clearly have an outpouring of support here.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
 Mailmon 
Jacksonville, FL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Posts: 14 since Aug 2018
Thanks: 97 given, 37 received

Once upon a time, I took driving personally rather than simply as a means to get from Point A to Point B. Whether it was a tailgater, someone trying to muscle in at a merge, getting cut off without warning (with the person signaling after initiating the lane change to add an extra bit of justification to my outrage), runners of stop signs, red lights, and yields, plus a dozen other idiocies, something back then in my psychology demanded that, at the very least, I give them whatfor (gesturing, yelling, whether they could still see/hear me or not) and, at the worst, reciprocating identical behavior ("Aha!! How do you like them apples?!").

Now it's been decades since I've done that. It doesn't even rise to the level of my attention anymore other than noting where the asshat is in relationship to my vehicle, much like I do with pedestrians, intersections, dogs, and everything else that we pay attention to while driving.

Why? I finally grokked several insights--i.e. not simply an intellectual understanding (as many of you will have while reading this, a necessary first step), but more in a George Costanza ("The Opposite") kind of way: "It's not the end of the world." (And you're even up $3K.)

Others have given you lots of advice and the requisite empathy (for me, it was nearly a quarter million, 20 years ago). I'm certain a lot more advice will be pouring in, too. So instead, I'll offer you an exercise which you should feel free to modify as it suits your particular psychological predilection.

Figure out what sets you off in a more benign situation and solve that. Really solve it in one area of your life, and BINGO! It won't be an issue elsewhere because you'll have figured out the underlying causes along the journey in doing this kind of introspective work. For me it was going on tilt while driving so I'll frame my "solution" in those terms. You can draw your own parallels to the market, which I believe you'll find are many.

1. It's not personal. An idiot driver doesn't know me, doesn't care about me, and is not even thinking about me other than as the most immediate obstacle in her path.

2. I'm driving for a specific purpose (and I'm not a police officer). Whether I stick to my plan or not is entirely up to me. I'm always at choice, even when my default choice is habit.

3. I got absolutely clear on my values hierarchy. Is it more important to "educate" someone who doesn't deserve the time of day from me? Or to hug my wife and children again?

4. Getting into a confrontation with an unknown quantity will eventually be detrimental to my health, my wallet, or both. There's always someone bigger, stronger, faster, armed, or who didn't slip on a street pebble after we both had decided unyieldingly, well, we simply must come to blows! Endless confrontation may work for a while, but not forever.

5. While we're talking Law of Averages, the fact is I don't have to do "a goddamn thing" (thank you, Samuel L. Jackson). The person who runs red lights and stop signs is likely doing it for an emergency only (and won't repeat it, so let's all move on because life happens); or, it's habitual and I'm merely the latest in a long string of encounters she's had. One of these days, out of the dozens of times she's been rewarded for being a dipshit, there will be a Mack truck converging on her and it will have the right of way. It's this one that brings a smile to my face, rather than provoking my rage; it's vital to ground the new behavior in its own emotional rewards (as perverse as that might sound in this instance). Hey, human here!

6. Finally, there will always be idiots on the road. That's human nature. But I don't have to be one, too, so I choose this, not that.

Particularly if you don't want to spend the money reading books or seeing a psychiatrist--and there are appropriate times for both--my advice is you identify similar behavior in your life that is habitual, more or less benign, yet which triggers the same sense of personal injustice you felt when the subsequent primary rage (at the injustice of your losses) was converted into a secondary emotional manifestation as a need for "revenge."

It's a simple task, but not necessarily easy. Really addressing the obstacles you find along the way--rather than just saying to yourself all the time, "Yeah, I get that," will have an incredibly positive life-changing benefit in everything you do including, of course, trading. Or, to quote the poet William Blake, "to see the world in a grain of sand." It's all there right in front of us and in everything we do.

I'd say, "Good luck!" but as successful traders we know luck works for us and against us, without knowing who we are, or caring, without any consideration of past events. But we're also human so, with a knowing wink and nod, I do indeed wish you good luck!

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to Mailmon for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
 theLeprechaun 
Dublin
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 8 since May 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

I have the same problem. Hate it. I did the same a week ago. Now I stopped trading and will stay away for another week or two until I solve the cause. I did read a considerable amount of trading books and psychology books, but by largest they cover only a few things, for some may be enough, for others isnít. No strategy or course or classic support from anyone would solve that. You need to solve and eliminate the source. You can do that with a really good psychologist, but are few of those, or with a good hypnotherapist, and there are also a few more options, but Iím not sure I can mention them here. And you need to do it; otherwise, it will bite you not only in trading but also in your daily life. Trading is a bitch because it uncovers a lot of your issues that usually are hidden. A quick fix is to trade with someone else; there are statistics that show that there is significantly higher profitability of trading in groups. Donít kill your strategy; kill your issues.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to theLeprechaun for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
StatGuy
Albuquerque NM
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

I know the feeling. I went from 25K to about 10K this year. I am super pissed at myself but I can kind of understand why it happened. I think I was mostly being lazy and just deferring my plans to automate things (I think PDT rules are a bit to blame as well). I am purely a discretionary trader at the moment and I think I could do all right that way, except I have realized I am just too impulsive. For example, I have a habit of opening a position and then getting nervous if it looks like it might move against me just a little bit, so I close it out for a very small loss, only to see it turn and surge in my previously forecasted direction. Then I get angry and think "ok, I make that back easy" and sometimes I do, but sometimes I make it much worse. I also close my winners out too early and don't capture nearly enough to make up for previous losses. Revenge trading is a real problem for me as well. I know when I am doing it, but it can be hard to resist sometimes.

I would say it is time to take a break and get your head right first. I am continuing my plan to automate my strategies and I think that will help remove some of the emotion. I am also going to be focusing on micro contracts for now until things improve. I used to love buying call options on Amazon, but now I can't afford to do it from a risk perspective. I envy you for being able to take 7K to 70K. That is phenomenal. I think if you can get risk management under control you will go far again.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to StatGuy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
 samiotis 
Gilroy california USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS, MT
Broker: TDAmeritrade Ninja Trader, TastyWorks, Robinhood
Trading: Options, MES
 
samiotis's Avatar
 
Posts: 80 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 27 given, 58 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Take this from someone who knows the game first hand.(trading for 20 years)
Position sizing is the key to success max size 1to 2% max on each trade I repeat max 1% risk, evaluate the P/L and repeat wining trades. If the market dont give you your trading signal then stay out.
I know first hand someone with $6,000,000 account and he will never I repeat never bet more, then 1% on each trade. I know he grows the account by making 2% every week which is his goal and by following this you will take your profits all the way to the bank......
Mike to your success....

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to samiotis for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
 JohnnyCash 
Mechanicsville, va
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: amp
Trading: ES, YM, TF, NQ, 6B, 6e
 
JohnnyCash's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 133 given, 30 received

Been there, a few times! Got all the badges and awards, but i'm better for it now. everybody is different, for me Sharkindicators works and fills the itch for that occasional "hey what about this!??"

find what works for you, this site is amazzzzzing!!!!!!!! and I have never ever found a better place.


keep trying and never give up, this is the best way to make money, longterm.......

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to JohnnyCash for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #70 (permalink)
JacktotheFuture
Windsor, ct, USA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2016
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

You need to look at this more long term. You started the year with $7k and now four months later have $10k. That's a 42% gain and if you annualized that it's a huge annual profit rate. It's great that you were up from $7k to $70k in such a short time but I think that rate of gain is unsustainable by almost anyone's standards. I also think you need to study risk management. Are you setting stop loss points with each trade? Pro traders will determine a max percent of loss on a trade before they even enter the trade. They stick to these stops. It sounds like you are taking a pretty wild, shoot from the hip approach to trading. Pro traders have well thought out strategies in place and they stick to them.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to JacktotheFuture for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #71 (permalink)
 Onecarl78 
NY, ny
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, tradestation
Trading: Es
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 1 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

You did a great job trading and building the account. I too have gotten complacent and will agree that its normal to blow up an account (and survive the aftermath). I believe it should hurt and cause a serious amount of introspection in order for you to learn from your mistakes. We all will have days that nothing seems to work- it takes a lot of character to not force the issue and chase profits/ try to force the market into submission.

Take a break, clear your head, learn what you did wrong and burn into your memory- much like A Clockwork Orange where the mere mention of crime triggers nausea and sickness- bad trading behavior will be ingrained into your awareness. Follow your instincts and regain your confidence gradually.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #72 (permalink)
 glennts 
Corpus Christi, TX / Westcliffe, CO
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: DDT / Rithmic / Kinetick
Trading: 6E, NQ
 
Posts: 106 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 5 given, 278 received

Quit your whining and get back on the horse. Nobody said it was going to be easy. The good thing is that while most people will blow $60k through an endless series of operator errors stretching over many months or years because of denial and an inability to learn and improve, you got it all over with in a few days. Think of all the time you have saved.

Going to spare you the sophistry because you know how you screwed up and you obviously have the skills to get back on track but I do have one suggestion.

If you pay your taxes quarterly, that is a good time to pull profits out of your account and do a reset of your trading account balance. You've just had a reset to $10K so when September rolls around, pay yourself for all your hard work and reset to $15k. Next quarter reset to $20K. This will allow you to increase size as you demonstrate competence and self-control while at the same time having a circuit breaker in place for the next time you lose your mind.

Without that withdrawal all profit is theoretical.

Good luck.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to glennts for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #73 (permalink)
 toadqqq 
Newark, DE USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Tradovate
Trading: ES, NQ
 
Posts: 17 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 11 given, 23 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I used to trade the ES and NQ and had a similar experience, though I used various sim accounts like Topstep and Leeloo, so I was only out the monthly fee and a pile of resets.

I would initially do well and grow my account to a nice number and even got funded at one point. Then the trading environment would change and I would get on a losing run. Revenge trading kicks in and then before I know it I'm done.

After this happened a few times I had to ask myself the question - am I cut out for this? I knew I wanted to win, I read Al Brooks like it was holy scripture, watched YouTube videos until I went cross-eyed. But the sneaky old market would find a way to take it all back and humble me.

So, a few months ago I decided to give Bitcoin a chance and also researched various DeFi tokens. I quickly learned that the way to do it was to buy and Hodl (crypto slang for just Hold). Best investing move I've made so far. My recommendation is to stay away from leveraged trading as crypto can move erratically (thin order books) and people are always blowing themselves up. Also, stay away from the hype coins as many of them are total scams.

As you get deeper into crypto you can see that the world will inevitably go this way and people are already building out a new financial infrastructure that will replace the central banks and wall st banks for a lot of reasons that I won't go into here, though the Bitcoin Standard is the best book for a deep dive.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to toadqqq for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #74 (permalink)
 Pivot Point Guy 
Mtn Home, Idaho
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Broker: TDA
Trading: Stocks and Futures
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 10 given, 9 received


bobwest View Post
You may think this is weird, and I don't mean to make light of what happened, but I feel that it is a good milestone to have blown up an account. I have done this a couple of times, and I didn't like it one bit either, but there's an opportunity to learn here, as well as to realize that as traders, we are fallible.

The remorse and the self-blame are natural, but it would be a good idea to get past them as soon as you can. I have no idea what went wrong and will not offer any "helpful" tips, other than to have a tight control on your losses and to not do anything you wouldn't otherwise do in your trading when it goes south, all of which you know, and which is easier said than done in any case.

One thing I do suggest is that, when you feel you are able, to tell your spouse. You said you knew that she would be supportive, and support is one thing you can use right now. Plus, holding it back will do you no good in terms of coming to terms with it, and may cause you to be less open to her and add to your problems. When you can, let it out.

Other than that, feeling you are no good as a trader is not going to help you either. You did some particular, specific things, whatever they were, which did not work, and you lost control in specific ways, which also did not work. Looking at those objectively is the best thing you can do now. Making judgments about how terrible you are as a trader is not going to be helpful, because it will not lead you to doing something to correct them.

Believe me, this happens to many, or even most, traders. So make use of what you can to change for the better. You are by no means alone, and believe me that you can move ahead after this.

And good luck.

Bob.

Most good traders have gone "through" the same or similar events before achieving the next level of trading. As Larry Williams calls it - Ku Chi. My humble old trader opinion is the same as Bob's with the addition of working on discipline. Discipline has never been a problem for me IRL but this was ultimately my core problem in the past and may be yours also. Just remember you are going "through" it and it is a long journey to becoming successful at trading.

Respectively,
PP Guy

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Pivot Point Guy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #75 (permalink)
 pipstalker 
Melbourne Victoria Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ESignal NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus/Zenfire
Trading: YM EUR/USD
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 19 given, 7 received

No-one else's well meaning advice on this forum will help you to change your ways, whatever your actions were, that turned those profits into losses. Many of us have been there more than once. I found after doing it twice, was that I was basically wanting to be right, was being lazy about stops and didn't follow my rules.

After 22 years of trading and studying risk management and position sizing for days/weeks and longer, and approaching each trade with an R (risk) *number* in mind, instead of dollars, I just took this new approach on board and changed my ways. Van Tharp's work played a big part, although I didn't do any courses.

He also goes into some detail about the difference between a loss and a mistake. Vastly different,
please take a little time to read up on that. Mistakes are really only made when you don't plan your trade. So mistakes are not acceptable, in his opinion, and if you keep making them, then you should stop trading and do something else less damaging in your life. Taking big losses is also very damaging to the psyche.

I do find that averaging down is a common theme among many traders ( the ones on a trading forum that I follow). When I make any comments about the level of risk averaging the indices, the guys are very gung ho, and really not interested in sensible 'words of advice, wisdom & pain'. So you may look to see what category you find yourself in.

Another observation is that you are giving yourself very negative self-talk & self coaching. You may want to do some reading of Brett Steinbarger for a more positive psychological approach on dealing with yourself and your losses. Constant criticism of yourself will never lead to any improvement. You will be lying in wait for yourself to make "the next stupid loss".

Regarding telling your wife, (yes, but not yet) ... well I would only do that when you have totally calmed yourself down and moved on from this experience. Reinforcing your beliefs of being a loser etc will not make her believe in you. She would want to know how you've taken on board some/all of the advice you've received from forum members, planned a course of action, had some success in your next (say) five to ten trades. Then you'll be able to celebrate your achievements, rather than confess all without a plan B. Don't wait too long.

I hope this helps. Follow your plan.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to pipstalker for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #76 (permalink)
 vjsnews 
Coolangatta , Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E signal
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 3 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 18 given, 6 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Hey I have been right where you are now. Just get back on your horse. Trade smaller . Get back to your plan .THAT WORKED.
Henry

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to vjsnews for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #77 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
 
Posts: 124 since Feb 2016
Thanks: 240 given, 534 received

Others have made some great comments. I think anyone who's "really going for it" and has been trading for a while can relate to your story. Using Rithmic feed with your broker you can set a fixed max daily loss so when you hit it your positions are closed automatically and you're locked out until the next day (and you have to email your broker to lift it). This is a smart long term strategy. The reality is that the emotional brain often does get the best of us in some moments. Personally, I use and need that forced daily loss safety net. I imagine lots of successful prop traders wouldn't still be trading if it wasn't for their risk managers. Find a way to efficiently process the trauma you've caused yourself so that it doesn't keep showing up and messing with your trading.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to TropicalTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #78 (permalink)
 JoeyZaza 
acton ma
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: amp
Trading: emini es
 
Posts: 36 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 16 given, 30 received

Thank you for sharing your experience. It takes courage!!! EVERYONE has blown it (at least once) and if they haven't or say they don't IMO they are lying.

Do tell your spouse.. being upfront with them will reinforce accountability. Not just to them but to you. You have to be accountable and ideally to someone else besides yourself. I have a trading partner but even that isn't 100% on the accountability scale, but it does help.

So first, great going on finding your niche and what works. As for the negative behavior.. well good news here to, you are human and not a machine. We are not wired for trading, the millions of years of hunting and self-preservation have hard wired certain behaviors. Search out the videos and books by Mark Douglas--spot on.

Some thoughts on how to regroup. Come up with a risk management calculation. Use it to determine your starting trading size and changes throughout the session (both scaling size up AND down). Find out your smallest size based on the risk calc and stick do it. And the hard part is to set the rule for NO revenge trading and just follow-it. No one will be able to do that but you. And you can do it.

Here is what I use for risk management and sizing.

And to keep it "real" I am out of the game myself recently due to my blow up from the February journal challenge.

AND I have twice gone from small bank up to $48k and $38k and back down. So same challenge all of us human traders succumb to--- i.e. being human. I am a work in progress.

Good luck and protect protect protect to trade another day.

Cheers,
JoeyZaza

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to JoeyZaza for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #79 (permalink)
grupps
Christchurch
 
 
Posts: 2 since Mar 2018
Thanks: 5 given, 0 received

Just briefly, your problem is strictly emotional.
Its called greed

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #80 (permalink)
 mjarzoms 
Houston Texas
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation, ThinkorSwim
Trading: emini ES
 
Posts: 12 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 10 received

2019 I had a similar roller-coaster ride. 65k to 95k, back down to 35k.

Got this back to 65k last year, and now routinely wire out profits and keep the trading account about the same size.
What size account that is will vary on what you want to trade, comfortable loss size, etc.

I now do this daily or weekly. Helps keep it more real when have some gains, reward yourself, go out to dinner, etc.
Losses you want to work back to that level so you can get paid again.

Started doing this November 2020 and has been night and day. I don't want a huge trading account, want a huge bank account.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to mjarzoms for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #81 (permalink)
blew
CLE, Ohio
 
 
Posts: 3 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 2 given, 94 received

First off, I can't thank you all enough for the support! It's absolutely insane to see all the replies and love, 8+ pages of it. I have read every single reply and taken perspective and wisdom from each one of them. It would take a long time to go through and respond to each and every person, just know I did read every reply.

I had a solid night of sleep and spent the day with my family. I have finally came down from the emotional state some, enough to think straight.

One question I am seeing a lot is about my strategy. I don't think it failed me. I failed myself. I ran most of the cash up from scalping options (TSLA and SPY usually 0-3DTE), and scalping securities (AAPL mostly, and then whatever else was having lots of volume/gapping on the day). I switched to futures for a bit here at the end before the blowup, and was having good success there (ES and RTY), and I feel like futures are perfect for me. For some reason I just decided to go back to what I was used to for a bit, probably out of habit and it's where a majority of my success was from. My strategy seems to work even better on futures, so I think I will be trading them exclusively when I get back on the horse Monday. My strategy is actually super simple, regardless if its options, shares, futures, etc. I trade support and resistance levels and I trade with the trend always. I don't trade breakouts or pure momentum or anything. I prefer a drop or breakout to happen, then wait as new floors and ceilings are formed, and I take those trades instead. I like trading inside channels of consolidation that have a wide range, the wider the better. Example, once I see a ceiling being retested, and if the trend is down, I will short once it retests that ceiling expecting it to fail because the major trend is down. Take my profit at the floor, leave a runner incase it breaks a floor. The stop loss is some what tight with minimal risk, because if it breaks out it did the opposite of what I wanted and the stop loss is set far enough out so it can breathe upon a fake out, but will stop out if it runs hard. Same for going long. I buy in at a clear floor, and take my profits at the ceiling, usually leaving a runner if it does breakout of the channel. I don't use any indicators at all, and instead just identify highs and lows and support/resistance levels myself. Its insane when you draw these yourself how much the market will follow these trends to the exact tick sometimes. I very rarely short if the trend is overall up, and I very rarely go long if the trend is down. Indicators made me lose money most of the time (not as much as my emotional trading though heh ). Not sure if its because I was too focused on them or what, but I quickly realized I was doing way way way better without them.

My biggest day ever was around 15k, a TSLA scalp turned into an all day hold as it just kept running. My biggest loss in a day before the blowup was like 3.5k, and I felt sick to my stomach for days. My account was only like 35kish at that time probably. I made it back quick enough though. One thing I noticed was as my account just kept getting larger, those losses I was getting sick over began to feel like nothing. I wish I still got sick to my stomach over those losses and realized the severity of what it was leading to. I think I normalized these large losses in a way because I felt justified by the large balance I ran up. It was pure cockiness. When I was raging I didn't follow my plan at all obviously. Not in any sense at all. I was over trading, and I even added to losing positions, something I never do and is in my checklists to never do ever. I should've knew right then and there when I broke that rule to stop, but I knew while I was doing it I needed to stop. I just can't believe how out of hand it got and how the spiral blew up my account so quickly. It makes me realize how dangerous emotion is. I was in trades with my heart pumping, my blood rushing and rage in my body. A sim can never recreate this situation for me because the emotion I experienced wouldn't have happened. No panic or revenge trading because I would've simply edited the account balance if I ran out. Emotion can't be represented in a sim, and it's directly what led to my demise. Sim is great for testing strategies and such I think, but I don't know that it will help my situation a whole lot (unless my strategy clearly falls apart entirely).

My major takeaways for now:

1. Set a loss limit on my account. This will straight up prevent me from blowing up, even if I get extremely emotional again.
2. Take half of my profits at the end of the day. I will begin doing this once I get my account back to around 30k.
3. Work on controlling my emotions better, even though #1 helps massively with this and lets me be human still.


I wish I would have followed #2 earlier and blew 30k instead of 60k. But I am taking this as a massive learning experience. I need to get back in the mindset of where I was at 10k. My mindset then was 1% a day, and it got me to where I was. I know some replies here are saying it's unachievable, but honestly with small account sizes (under ~1mil), I really think it's not that far fetched. Hell I was doing it, so I know it's not crazy talk. Yes my style technically involves using leverage (not using margin, but options is technically leverage), but I don't feel that leverage is what killed me at all. Me being extremely emotional and not sticking super tight to the plan is what killed me. I won't give up leverage because it's apart of my style, and how I got anywhere in the first place. So while leverage led to my demise in a certain sense, it's not the thing I feel blew up the account.

Thanks again for all the replies and support everyone. Monday I will saddle back up and post a journal thread and document my journey of rebuilding. I'll either blow up (again) or glow up (again). I'll try to post everyday. I will be trading strictly futures, as I only have good vibes and experiences with them, plus it'll be a fun new adventure too.

Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to blew for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #82 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
Missioul Montana usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader and others
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
 
Posts: 13 since Feb 2016
Thanks: 1 given, 35 received

Excellent post. Raw and real. What do you learn from this? Where do you go from here? That's entirely up to you. I've been there and view it all as part of the learning process. It sounds like you have some solid skills and you like/love to trade and have the necessary commitment. There is always going to be something new, an unusual array of unique circumstances that will come along that will test you. It's the nature of the game. If something negative happens to me I fall back, analyze what went wrong. Take a break. Maybe sim trade a bit on great high quality live data platform until I'm optimized, confident, and then ease back in. Imagine yourself say Tiger Woods growing up...how many years did he spend learning the game, honing his craft. How many practice swings, how many games played? How many failures, bad choices, revenge playing as well as successes? Even if you have a great run, great edges or strat's there is going to be a randomness to the distribution of wins/losses within the edge. Really getting that at my core helped me to avoid revenge trading. There are lessons we must learn along the way and better early than later. Sometimes one has to go through them many times but hopefully one begins to recognize what's happening early, change course or avoid them re-occurring. With like 1200 human cognitive bias's that all seem to conspire to make trading difficult it's not any surprise the mental aspect is difficult. The other thing that really helped me as well was really getting the following: "some things work, some of the time". When the conditions are right and my approach is working I go in heavier, when its not I'm in light or out and waiting. Anyway good luck in the future. The mental game is a big part of trading.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to chartmojo2 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #83 (permalink)
 fi4you 
Santa Rosa, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: YM (Dow emini)
 
fi4you's Avatar
 
Posts: 1 since May 2018
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

As a trader you give up control but not action and consequence of action. "Revenge" trading is a way of trying to be in control. This environment is the hardest, next to a battlefield, we will even have to face. It wears us down and occasionally we snap. On the battlefield, you die. Here the price is the death of your account and spirit.

Behavior limiters is the only way you will make it long range.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to fi4you for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #84 (permalink)
rhinotrader
Sydney
 
 
Posts: 1 since Dec 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

That's a rough ride. I know that exact feeling you described. your post resonated with me a lot. I've had many days in my trading career like that, where I can't believe my stupidity. Slept through an alarm once cause I had a girl over and lost $50k on a trade I was set to make $100k on if I woke up on time. Just one example. First thing to remember is you can always make it back. There is always opportunity in the market. Read reminiscences of a stock operator. He went bankrupt multiple times, but was undoubtedly one of the greatest traders ever. Read market wizards, there are plenty such stories of people losing it all and starting again from scratch. The most important thing is to take the lesson, don't pay the tuition and not get the lesson. Don't be greedy. Don't trade your emotions. Have emotional/monetary stops. If you drop 10% of your account, or whatever number, take a break from trading, reflect on your emotional state and what you are doing wrong. Never revenge trade.

Don't let this experience discourage you. Every great trade has been through it. What matters is how you deal with this now.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to rhinotrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #85 (permalink)
absinthe
chicago
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received


fxzen View Post
I just wanted to second this book. I've read all the popular psychology books, some many times over, and watched tons of videos from ones like Steenbarger et al, and this book blows them all away. It's not just a book about theory but gives you practical tools to build an system to improve your mental and emotional game.

Knowing why your emotional mind takes over doesn't prevent it from happening - you need to develop the emotional skills to identify the signals before it takes over and renders your logical mind useless, and this book can help you do that.

You need to do the deep work, this isn't a quick fix, but can give you the understanding, the tools and a plan to get there.


Found out about Jared a while back and he is the best. He's a big time poker and golf coach. Best thing about him is that he knows little about trading so you're not going to here this cut your losses and let your profits run kind of nonsense

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to absinthe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #86 (permalink)
 LastDino 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradingView & ZerodhaKite
Trading: Crude, NIFTY, BANKNIFTY
 
LastDino's Avatar
 
Posts: 941 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 2,854 given, 2,808 received

Well, here are my 2c since I can relate to you. (I'm sure most people here can)

1. Tell your spouse. Its important, lot more than it might seem to you.

2. Remove 7k from your trading account and use only 3k for now.

3. You seem to have some form of edge with you, your past success is proof of it. But there is likely problem of scaling in or out, I would suggest running backtests and walk forward tests with your current strategy with different position management strategies. This site has lot of resources for that.

4. I would also suggest to keep a detailed record or journal of some sort, its helpful in long run, it automatically improves you whenever you look back at your own trades. (What I was doing just couple of months ago seems silly to me, that's how much change it can cause)

5. Take this year as a learning experience and rejoice that you are in net profit and not a car or home down. I'm not kidding, that's where most end up.

6. Nothing wrong in taking some time off either, forum advice usually doesn't help if you don't have clear head yourself.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to LastDino for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #87 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 639 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 19 given, 689 received

The issue that i don't think most retail traders realize is that the same things that caused you to blow up were probably how you made the gains. You don't get those kinds of crazy gains without taking some crazy risks in the first place. It's rarely ever just a one time loss of control. Instead you'll almost always see excessive risk taking every step of the way, and it's just a matter of time before you get caught.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to TWDsje for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #88 (permalink)
feinbern
London
 
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 3 given, 18 received

One thing I would add here (and I havenít read all the posts on here so am not sure if Iím repeating anyone) is that learning how to program even at a basic level can help to avoid emotional trading. I did the same thing as you when starting out discretionary trading and lost a lot more money. Started off with around 440k after a year or more of research/paper trading, made 60k in around 2 weeks in late 2017 and then gave it all back and more. About 18 mos later I was down to 100k after some awful trades on gold futures and selling options on a few other contracts. Some of this was just poor trading but most of it was trading on emotion etc. Itís really hard to get away from this when your trading manually (or discretionary) as you have to make so many decisions. You canít avoid emotional bias in any decision making no matter what people say. Youíre human like everyone else. Since I learned to code last year (Tradestation easylanguage - nothing too crazy), itís been a dramatic improvement. No more emotion. I just let the algo do itís thing and donít think about it. I have a ďsystem stop lossĒ in place in case there is a large drawdown but luckily havenít got close to that yet. All in all, a much better approach IMO and is the only (almost) fool proof way to keep emotions out of it. Once youíve got a decent strategy (and it sounds like you do) put the extra effort in to learn some basic coding. You wonít regret it...

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to feinbern for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #89 (permalink)
 johnnymustard 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT 8
Broker: NT Brokerage, IQFeed
Trading: ES, 6E & CL
 
Posts: 26 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 2 given, 12 received

Hey blew,
I know right where you are because I've been there.
On Monday August 24th 2015 I increased my account by a little over 2000%
in what I refer to as the greatest 5 1/2 hours of my life.

My days off were the 20th (Thu) & 21st (Fri) and I was looking forward to trading.
Somebody called in sick, so I had to work. When I saw what the market did (huge down days)
I was not happy. The following Monday I was given a day off and it was a bigger day than Thu & Fri
combined. I made a ton on the short side, a LOT of $$$.

It was all gone within a month and a half or so. I thought I had everything all figured out.
My Uncle wrote me out of his will because he was scared I'd screw away my inheritance on day trading.
My Father cried and I felt just like you do now. But those wounds heal, in time.

As many have mentioned, you clearly have something real. To do what you did over those months of
profitability is much more than one day of dumb luck (like I had).

I have two pieces of advice for you:

1) Tell your Wife soon as possible. Waiting only makes it worse.

2) Take some time off from trading. It doesn't sound like your head is in any place to trade.
In a week or 6 months or whatever it is, start sim trading your plan. Get comfortable again
before going LIVE.

The sooner you can get your head back to normal, the better off you'll be. I don't know if your a
football fan or not but I've heard them say frequently that the best players have short memories.
A d-back that gets burned for a TD needs to forget it and cover his receiver the next play and the rest of the game.
A QB that throws a game crushing interception needs to forget it and play at the level that got him the job.
Learn what you can from this and turn it into a positive the best that you can. Going back to the football analogy,
put it behind you and move forward. That knot of barbed wire in your gut WILL go away.

I know it doesn't feel like it now but you'll survive this and come out the other side a better trader.
Best wishes, JM

That_Day

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to johnnymustard for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #90 (permalink)
jokepie
stockton + California
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jul 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 3 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

Only awakening you need is here -
- WHEN were you planning to withdraw your profits ?
- If you didn't plan for it, Why are you trading without a goal for withdrawals ?
- Why are you trading at all ?
- Take profits OUT after it reaches 2X, 3X or 4X your accounts size. Save 1X as your seed account for every 2X or 3X withdrawals. Coz Bullshit happens.

Don't sweat what happened. Get going again. Cheers

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #91 (permalink)
Kolnidrei
Lyon/France
 
 
Posts: 6 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 1 given, 5 received

hi, it's simple, you're not a trader, you're a gambler !
You need to accept yourself as the person you are, that's all !
You have to accept yourself as a gambler !
A gambler is a fatalist, someone who knows he can win big or loose it all
but who juste doťsn't care, as anyway it's a zero-sum game,
so if you blew up you're account you made someone else happy !
Isn't this reason enough to be happy yourself ?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Kolnidrei for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #92 (permalink)
 Fonz 
Miami, Fl
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, Jigsaw
Trading: Futures
 
Fonz's Avatar
 
Posts: 33 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 15 given, 43 received

My solution applied to my own situation:

Regarding my own financial situation and my "emotional capital" (not about money), losing $200 a day and even $1,000 a week is not a big deal, even if no one likes to lose anything. Losing $2,500 a day becomes (at least now) not fun at all. So when the emotional toll of losing becomes unpleasant to hard and then unbearable? Few years ago, the first (unpleasant) was at $100 a day, now the $1,000 is the tipping point or my "first sensory pain".
Anyway, understanding where I am and how I feel about losing, helped me a lot.

The dream for so many traders is to grow an account to the roof.
In the past, I learned everything that I could regarding money management or position sizing, even when I was still losing with an amazing consistency. 2%. Fixed fractional, Optimal F, etc.
My goal was to be able to make it and finally become a pro who can live from his passion. The emotional toll was so huge when I blew up my last option account few years ago, that it took me months to recover emotionally. Then, I finally understood the meaning of money for me, understanding myself and what I call my "emotional capital" and how that works with me. (Perhaps a beginning of a self analysis?)

So now, I am constantly aware of where are my sensory pains, per day, week and even month.
My "secret" is to do the opposite of what people try to achieve regarding position sizing: The larger my account is and the less risks I take: With a $10,000. account, I don't have any problem to risk 2% per trade and then 5% per day, and 12.5% a week.
For example, with a $100,000. account dedicated to my day trading, I will have a hard time to lose $5,000. a day! So, the more my account grow and the more I reduce the size of my risks. I have written in stone how I will decrease or increase my risks, regarding the size of my account and the size of my emotional capital.
I also consistently monitor my daily and weekly PF. I discovered that it is a great way for me to see when my trading will go wrong, even before it happens.

It works well for me and even if we are all different, I hope that can help you and others as well.
Best!

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Fonz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #93 (permalink)
 Nextrader13 
Madrid Spain
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja trader ProRealTime
Broker: IB
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 9 since Nov 2015
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

Take a look at this just in case. https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2021/03/26/robinhood-trader-may-face-800000-tax-bill/
You have to keeps some money for your taxes
Donít quit trading but make your rule and follow them. If you have a bad day donít trade the next 3 or 5 days. You need to analyze your bad trades and your mistakes. Take care man.


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.


Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #94 (permalink)
 dhiebert 
Nanaimo, BC Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: IB
Broker: ib
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 28 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 20 given, 11 received

The first thing you need to do is to take a break from trading. A minimum of one month if not three. AFTER the break, you need to figure out something that is going to work for you. Personally I had taken a one week class with Dave Green. I had blown up my account several times, thus I am speaking from personal experience. It won't happen again. He is trading stocks mind you, however the methodology he teaches for the half a dozen setups that he uses works with most things traded. He also has a ton of good information to keep your brain in check... stop the revenge trading and let the trades come to you. You should NEVER be asking yourself after a trade, "why did I do this trade". There always has to be a reason, and the reason ALWAYS has to be a setup. Also, I recommend you reading the book "Trading In The Zone" by Mark Douglas. I'd say "good luck", but professional trading isn't about luck. Luck is for the casino's, which by blowing up your account thus far is how you would have been using the markets.



blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with myself. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now apart of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.


Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #95 (permalink)
Jakuza
Deerfield Beach
 
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2019
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


blew View Post
So I just need to get this off my chest. I just gave away all my gains on the year. I went from 7k -> 70k -> 10k. I blew most of it revenge trading and taking too big of position sizes. I got so comfortable scaling up as I was profiting consistently, and I threw it all away in like 10-15 trades. All the work I put in.. day and night studying all the styles of trading, figuring out what worked for me and what didnít, and I blew it all within a few days by emotionally revenge trading and scaling up to higher as the losses got deeper. How could I be so stupid?! Iím still in disbelief I blew an account. I was happy to be one of the ones who didnít blow up an account because I remained disciplined enough to run up basically 1000% in 5 months.

I canít bring myself to tell my spouse. She would be really supportive I know it, but I canít even face myself at the moment, let alone have to explain what happened. Disgusted with me. Utterly disgusted. I canít believe I let myself get so emotional and out of control. What in the fuck was going through this dense skull of mine?! My confidence is shaken but itís not at the same time. Iím confident that I just made 1000% in 5 months, and Iím also confident I just blew that 1000% in 3 days. So what does that really say about me as a trader... that Iím probably not too good Iím thinking.

The problem is trading is now a part of my identity it feels like. I love it but right now I hate it. Before a 4K swing up or down was no big deal, cause Iím some big shot or some shit I guess. But now 4K would axe me for good damn near. I want to give up but I donít cause I love trading. What can I learn from this? Donít revenge trade. But I knew that. I knew it while I was doing it and I know it now. So why didnít I fucking stop?? I donít know what to do from here.

I have been there as well, blew $55k last year, having traded it up from $1000 in 5 months. I was really upset with myself after it because it only came down to one thing, me not following the rules that got me to $55k. I had to take a few days off, accept the loss because I broke my own rule, trying to figure out how do I prevent myself from breaking the rules? I know there isn't really anything that prevents me from breaking the rules, other than trying to constantly remind myself that I blew $55k. I have since been working on automating some of my trades to eliminate the biggest issue, which is me , and I'm getting back into the game, I'm not depositing more money so now my challenge is to build from $19 to $55k and beyond. This past week was good and I'm starting to close in on 3 figures, 2 weeks from now I want to be in 4 figures and then accelerate the growth.

My words of wisdom to you are to put the losses in a picture next to your screen, look at them every time you take a trade and make sure you follow your rules. When you feel like "cheating" or revenge trade, look at the statement that shows how you blew your account and that should help you remember what made you blow your account.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #96 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
forgiven's Avatar
 
Posts: 669 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 155 given, 398 received

GREED , FEAR greed was the increase in size . fear was the bad trading habits you used out of fear of seeing your account bleeding . the same thing gets all of us at some point. just start over with a better plan.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #97 (permalink)
stroke
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
 
Posts: 1 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 2 given, 0 received


Kelko100 View Post
Read "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas. Very helpful for understanding the psychology and impulses that lead to blown accounts and how to avoid them.

I've also blown out my account too. After that I came across this book by Mark Douglas, and it was a game changer.

How the human mind works, how the majority of us makes the same mistakes. I wish I knew about this before.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #98 (permalink)
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
 
Posts: 141 since May 2018
Thanks: 139 given, 107 received


stroke View Post
I've also blown out my account too. After that I came across this book by Mark Douglas, and it was a game changer.

How the human mind works, how the majority of us makes the same mistakes. I wish I knew about this before.

There are also YouTube videos by Mark Douglas. Very informative which will change your perception regarding your executions.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to lightsun47 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #99 (permalink)
 Sandpaddict 
Langley
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 
Posts: 452 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 565 given, 390 received

This post should highlighted.
JoeyZaza View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience. It takes courage!!! EVERYONE has blown it (at least once) and if they haven't or say they don't IMO they are lying.

Do tell your spouse.. being upfront with them will reinforce accountability. Not just to them but to you. You have to be accountable and ideally to someone else besides yourself. I have a trading partner but even that isn't 100% on the accountability scale, but it does help.

So first, great going on finding your niche and what works. As for the negative behavior.. well good news here to, you are human and not a machine. We are not wired for trading, the millions of years of hunting and self-preservation have hard wired certain behaviors. Search out the videos and books by Mark Douglas--spot on.

Some thoughts on how to regroup. Come up with a risk management calculation. Use it to determine your starting trading size and changes throughout the session (both scaling size up AND down). Find out your smallest size based on the risk calc and stick do it. And the hard part is to set the rule for NO revenge trading and just follow-it. No one will be able to do that but you. And you can do it.

Here is what I use for risk management and sizing.

And to keep it "real" I am out of the game myself recently due to my blow up from the February journal challenge.

AND I have twice gone from small bank up to $48k and $38k and back down. So same challenge all of us human traders succumb to--- i.e. being human. I am a work in progress.

Good luck and protect protect protect to trade another day.

Cheers,
JoeyZaza

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #100 (permalink)
 Sandpaddict 
Langley
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 
Posts: 452 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 565 given, 390 received


samasthiti View Post
"The Mental Game of Trading" by Jared Tendler is a practical guide to improve your mental game.

Becoming a professional trader will require a lot of work on yourself. Smaller size or setting limits at your brokers, things like that, will not make you a better trader. These are just crutches.

You need to correct the deep-seated, fundamental flaws in your mental game.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

I just bought this book based on the table of contents within a minute.

I can't bring myself to read another new trading book lately. They are usually rehashes or plainly wrong.

Looking only the table of contents I am finally excited to read a new book.

Thank you for your recommendation.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Sandpaddict for this post:


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > I finally blew up an account


Last Updated on May 14, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing

NEW BlackBird Features + FOREX Support w/Jeremy Tang @ SharkIndicators

Elite only
 

Our 12-year anniversary w/ $$,$$$ prizes (check soon)

June
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts