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To move the stop


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To move the stop

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  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES,
 
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Avila View Post
Dear friends,
I am spanish trader (sorry by my english)
I am doing intraday trading in mini ES future almost 20 years ago. I have never reached to be consistent. I have a big big problem. When I see my stop going to hit I move it. I broad it.
I earn 100 or 150$ in my trade sesion each day (more or less). But one day, the price moves against me and I don't want to lose all earned the other days. Move (broad) my stop and then I lose 400 or 500$ in one trade.
I have tried many things: Visualizations, breathing, to think about points and not money, get up when I entry on the markets.... I have done several psychotrading courses. All that you can imaging.
I am very tired. If I can not to resolve this problem, after 20years I am afraid I will have to give up and leave my dream.
I some body have any exercise or advice to control this big problem It will be a big help for me.

Thanks in advance.

I have run into this issue in the past and it is something I make sure to deal with everyday.

First you need to figure out why you are moving your stop. Most likely it is because losing that amount of money is a strain on your mental well being and your trading account. With that said I would suggest to move down to the Micro's I have during this volatility and its something that has helped out so much. I am actually making more on the MICROS then I did with the regular contracts. I shoot for larger targets and scale in and out something I didn't feel comfortable doing on the ES.

The size of the loss is whats making you have these problems, you are having a hard time coping with the stress of losing money because its such a large loss.

Second you need to read the chimp paradox. there are issues that we all have that have been ingrained in our mental state. These are the chimps and if you believe in evolution then you should understand why some of us have this drive to do certain things we don't understand. For example, your chimp feels its under attack so what does it do it fights back and the only way it knows how to do that is to move a stop-loss and prevent its self from taking that loss. In hindsight you think your helping your self but in reality your making it worse. By dropping down to the MICROS you will be able to take that loss and train your chimp that its not a big deal to eat that loss, you'll make it back eventually.

Third, your entries need help. If you enter into a trade and get stopped out even though it ends up working out then I'd say 75% of the time your entry was bad. With this volatility it makes it hard due to the constant whips we see. Focus on 1 or 2 entry types and because a master at them. You can make a KILLING off only trading the ES and sticking with one or two entry types. Sticking with one or two entry types will also boost your chimps confidence.

I am by no mean an expert on this so take this with a grain of salt but I've been in your shoes and it is something you have to work on every day.

Side note this works a lot better when you practice it with every day life as well. I try to make sure my chimp is under-control doing every day tasks so when Im trading it is a seamless transition. Granted it doesn't always work but it helps.

-P

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  #12 (permalink)
Avila+Spain
 
 
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Many thanks Burt, many thanks!!!


Burt View Post
You've proven that your unrelenting passion is to never give up!! Prove that your passion is to be profitable and never widen your stops, never. Nobody ever remains consistently profitable who move their stops. The market is telling you that there is a better entry. Love your stops, they are vital every single second of the day.


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  #13 (permalink)
Avila+Spain
 
 
Posts: 13 since Mar 2020
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MiniP View Post
I have run into this issue in the past and it is something I make sure to deal with everyday.

First you need to figure out why you are moving your stop. Most likely it is because losing that amount of money is a strain on your mental well being and your trading account. With that said I would suggest to move down to the Micro's I have during this volatility and its something that has helped out so much. I am actually making more on the MICROS then I did with the regular contracts. I shoot for larger targets and scale in and out something I didn't feel comfortable doing on the ES.

The size of the loss is whats making you have these problems, you are having a hard time coping with the stress of losing money because its such a large loss.

Second you need to read the chimp paradox. there are issues that we all have that have been ingrained in our mental state. These are the chimps and if you believe in evolution then you should understand why some of us have this drive to do certain things we don't understand. For example, your chimp feels its under attack so what does it do it fights back and the only way it knows how to do that is to move a stop-loss and prevent its self from taking that loss. In hindsight you think your helping your self but in reality your making it worse. By dropping down to the MICROS you will be able to take that loss and train your chimp that its not a big deal to eat that loss, you'll make it back eventually.

Third, your entries need help. If you enter into a trade and get stopped out even though it ends up working out then I'd say 75% of the time your entry was bad. With this volatility it makes it hard due to the constant whips we see. Focus on 1 or 2 entry types and because a master at them. You can make a KILLING off only trading the ES and sticking with one or two entry types. Sticking with one or two entry types will also boost your chimps confidence.

I am by no mean an expert on this so take this with a grain of salt but I've been in your shoes and it is something you have to work on every day.

Side note this works a lot better when you practice it with every day life as well. I try to make sure my chimp is under-control doing every day tasks so when Im trading it is a seamless transition. Granted it doesn't always work but it helps.

-P

Really your knowledge is really good. I've studied the reptilian brain also. Although always is the same. First weeks I start very strong, but finally finish giving up. Is difficult to attack to subconscient.
Whit he micro contracta you are completly right. In fact when I trade with micro ES my month balance is positive. I trade relax. I flow with the markets.
I am very gratefull for all your advices.
I will continue working.
Regards,

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  #14 (permalink)
Baton Rouge, LA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jul 2019
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Avila View Post
Many thanks Burt, many thanks!!!

Meet your daily target as quickly and calmly as possible, then trade the ENTIRE day in SIM mode in a rational manner and when both daily totals are green then you will truly have true confidence in your method! That's what I did and I have not looked back never touching my stops!! So 20 years, I want to party with you cowboy-

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  #15 (permalink)
Vienna, Austria
 
 
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As others said and recommended already, that's problem of you psychology, and only you can fix that. Try reading some of the books and listen to the podcasts on youtube about risk management etc...

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  #16 (permalink)
Avila+Spain
 
 
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jakolinko View Post
As others said and recommended already, that's problem of you psychology, and only you can fix that. Try reading some of the books and listen to the podcasts on youtube about risk management etc...

Thanks jakolinko for your advices. Really read books, psychology courses focused in trading, see good seminars in youtube... Are things I have already done. Trading is probably the most difficult job on the word, buth to figh against our unconscious...Uff!!
For this reason things like to get up the chair or trade with micros are exercses mores easy to do for me.
Self-observation, visualization, self-control, talking to the mirror, remembering our childhood ... It will certainly help us, but it is incredibly difficult.

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  #17 (permalink)
Bracknell/UK
 
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Hi.

IMO the fear/greed creeps in when the environment is not known to us. What I have in mind is the full methodology/system on how you will deal with everyday trading situations is not based on historical edges, meaning hasnt been backtest or can not be backtested because of too many discretionary components. My advice would be to learn to code and then try and build your trading into an algo. Only then after you have backtested your tools and settings you will have far more confidence in holding or cutting your trades prematurely. Without knowing its impossible to get calm and stress free. Sorry to tell you but reading psychology books or 10 of them won't help a thing. It's not that simple. If it would be we all would be millionaires. Remember fear/confusion/hesitation comes from not trusting your own system and to trust your system it must be based on empirical facts not assumptions.

This is just my 2 cents.

Best regards,
Bel.

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  #18 (permalink)
Avila+Spain
 
 
Posts: 13 since Mar 2020
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Yes I know the statistics is a huge help because if your systems says each 10 trades you win 6 or 7 and your rate risk/benefit is at least 1:1 you confidence will grow up and your mind will be quiet.
I can not to do my system authomatic because I trade with price and volume. Better said I do not how.
Thanks for your advice.

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  #19 (permalink)
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Avila View Post
Yes I know the statistics is a huge help because if your systems says each 10 trades you win 6 or 7 and your rate risk/benefit is at least 1:1 you confidence will grow up and your mind will be quiet.
I can not to do my system authomatic because I trade with price and volume. Better said I do not how.
Thanks for your advice.

Then basically you have answered your own question. If you don't know then you must learn. Do the hard yards, those that nobody else is willing to do. Thats where the biggest edges and discoveries lies. Else you're just throwing darts in the dark. Remember that 95% have no idea what they are doing meaning you have to work it out yourself and same goes with tools. To get good you must build custom tools and look for edges where nobody else is looking. Built in generic crap indis and stuff don't work, books help a few % but to become a consistent winning trader you must workout context and how your tools help you navigate around that. I have learned this thinking from someone who is very good at trading intrday/swings but it took him 20yrs to reach this level hes on for the last few years.

Regards,
Bel.

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  #20 (permalink)
Scarborough
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 27 since Apr 2020



Avila View Post
Dear friends,
I am spanish trader (sorry by my english)
I am doing intraday trading in mini ES future almost 20 years ago. I have never reached to be consistent. I have a big big problem. When I see my stop going to hit I move it. I broad it.
I earn 100 or 150$ in my trade sesion each day (more or less). But one day, the price moves against me and I don't want to lose all earned the other days. Move (broad) my stop and then I lose 400 or 500$ in one trade.
I have tried many things: Visualizations, breathing, to think about points and not money, get up when I entry on the markets.... I have done several psychotrading courses. All that you can imaging.
I am very tired. If I can not to resolve this problem, after 20years I am afraid I will have to give up and leave my dream.
I some body have any exercise or advice to control this big problem It will be a big help for me.

Thanks in advance.


First of all I understand why you are going through. I have been there and still move my stop once in a while. This happens when The market moves below what I thought was support or goes beyond what I thought was resistance.

Tyy to know what your trading range is. Understand what yesterday’s low and high were and what your days trading range is. If you buy at support, chances are very good that the you will not have to move your stop but you should wait till the market has started moving up to buy. Same thing for resistance, wait till price is at the high of day to short. If you can do that the chances of having to move your stop will be very low because you will be buying the low which is support or the high which is resistance.

The issue I believe is you are getting in just because you see the market moving up or down without being aware of where resistance is or where price is going turn against you. Know your trading range and buy right. If you buy right you will be fine. If you buy wrong, you will be tempted to move your stop.

I hope this helps.

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May 26, 2020


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