Gambling (with life) - futures io
futures io futures trading



Gambling (with life)


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated by SunTrader
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one SunTrader with 10 posts (9 thanks)
    2. looks_two DoubleUCapital with 10 posts (11 thanks)
    3. looks_3 ChrisDouthit with 5 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 smtlaissezfaire with 4 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one TheBenefactor with 17.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 8.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 bobwest with 6.3 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 lancelottrader with 5.7 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 8,780 views
    2. thumb_up 193 thanks given
    3. group 232 followers
    1. forum 78 replies
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Gambling (with life)

(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
Market Wizard
west palm beach florida usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja trader
Broker: Optimus Futures/ Rithmic
Trading: Cl, TF
 
Posts: 945 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 943 given, 4,265 received

I first started trading after a friend took me to a Forex seminar sponsored by a company called Wizetrade. The product was called Forex made easy. It basically eschewed conventional trading procedures like Candle charts or price action. Instead you entered on a combination of green or red lights and crosses of green and red lines. Did I mention the software cost close to $4000.00? For reasons I still can hardly comprehend, I bought the software and embarked on a "life ruining" journey.
Was I a Gambler? I didn't think so at the time. I never had any interest in gambling in my entire life. Even the couple of times I went to Las Vegas, I never bothered gambling. I always thought it was silly. Nor would I say I had an addictive personality. I was able to drink alcohol moderately and do a few other things without ever having problems. I had always considered myself to be fairly well disciplined as well. I worked out, ate extremely healthy and never missed any obligations. But trading brought out a side to me that I had no idea existed.

When I began, I was in very good financial shape. I had plenty of money in Savings and I owned a nice home free and clear. I had done well investing in Real Estate, but since this was around 2009 and the market had crashed..I got out of Real Estate. I SIM traded for a few months and did great, even with the silly Forex Made Easy program. I found that I was good when there was extreme volatility in the currency pairs. I was totally deluded. I opened up a $50,000.00 account and started trading a sizable number of lots. Looking back, the amount of delusion and stupidity I had almost defies belief. I started having some serious losing days..$5000.00 and up. I found I was totally unable to stop trading when I was down. No max daily loss limit could be adhered to. My heart would pound and my palms would sweat as I would try to double or triple my lot size in order to recoup my losses.

I started keeping a journal and when I'd read what I did, it was like I was seeing a whole different person. I blew out at least three $50,000.00 accounts. My girlfriend begged me to quit. I couldn't. I felt, I had put too much time and money in to give up. I tried automated trading and lost lots of money on that. I finally stopped trading for a few months...

Then I decided to try Futures. That was several years ago. I took many losses at that too, but now I was trading smaller amounts. But those small accounts were also blown out. Why I continued is a total mystery. I am doing fairly well now, but it will be a long time before I ever recoup what I lost. Honestly, all the time, money and anguish this has caused me is probably not worth whatever small success I have now. If I could go back in time, I would never get involved in this. Let's face it...like I wrote a while back..finding actual consistently profitable Retail traders is about as easy as finding Sasquatch.

Failure is not an option
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users say Thank You to lancelottrader for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Seeking an MT4 Indicator/EA that scans all Currency Pairs to identify setup
Platforms and Indicators
Heat Map on Trendspider
Platforms and Indicators
MulitCharts: Limit Order converted to MIT
Platforms and Indicators
Anyone with Overcharts license/experience?
Platforms and Indicators
Can anyone help convert this pine script to c# or vb?
MultiCharts
 
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
Naples FLA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader 8
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: Currency Futures, RTY, ES, NQ
 
Oriole's Avatar
 
Posts: 87 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 194 given, 57 received


Medboy View Post
I can so relate to this thread. I'm one of the little hopeful guys trying to figure trading out. I've read Al Brooks (I respect him a lot), watched Mack's Youtube's for years and I keep searching for the right method for me. I got laid off 6 months ago so I have had a lot screen time lately. But the unemployed doesn't need to give up money and I have. Not given up the farm, but I have paid some trading "tuition" to learn what does not work. I will probably just have to get a real job again. Been applying. I'm not sure how anyone really learns to daytrade unless already financially free, unless you work at night, but that won't work for me. And you can't cheat on your employer and trade during work hours. Not ethical.

And then there are all the emails I get from Ninjacators promising me they have discovered the next miracle solution for trading and getting rich. Really? I'm watching Market Depth Orderflow today and see that prices knife through "support" and "resistance" at will. But I can be a sucker for these things. True confession. Anyone making money with the Volume Spread Scalper they pushed a few weeks ago? I bought it. Made a few bucks with micro contracts, but only because I scaled in to trades. A bit scared to really trust it. Just one of many ideas I've tried.

I've even been in Al's trading room, which is great education, but most of the time the market is in a "limit order market phase" and he can't call those trades out complete with entry, stop, and exit, and still run the trading room. He does give good advice and things to consider, but no short cuts to profits. Each person must do their own hunting.

My problem is my time is running out. I wanted to prove I could trade by making some money so I wouldn't need to get another job. That is not a good recipe for starting out.

Ok I vented pretty well for my first post. Sorry, but this thread really hit home for me.

Good stuff. I laughed at the NINJACATORS reference because I want to buy a lot of their stuff but have not yet. Wow do they email blast that S*** outta you. All day long. Like that ORDER FLOW gimmick that expires TODAY for only $197. I want it.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Oriole for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
Boca Raton, FL
 
 
Posts: 117 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 68 received



lancelottrader View Post
I first started trading after a friend took me to a Forex seminar sponsored by a company called Wizetrade. The product was called Forex made easy. It basically eschewed conventional trading procedures like Candle charts or price action. Instead you entered on a combination of green or red lights and crosses of green and red lines. Did I mention the software cost close to $4000.00? For reasons I still can hardly comprehend, I bought the software and embarked on a "life ruining" journey.
Was I a Gambler? I didn't think so at the time. I never had any interest in gambling in my entire life. Even the couple of times I went to Las Vegas, I never bothered gambling. I always thought it was silly. Nor would I say I had an addictive personality. I was able to drink alcohol moderately and do a few other things without ever having problems. I had always considered myself to be fairly well disciplined as well. I worked out, ate extremely healthy and never missed any obligations. But trading brought out a side to me that I had no idea existed.

When I began, I was in very good financial shape. I had plenty of money in Savings and I owned a nice home free and clear. I had done well investing in Real Estate, but since this was around 2009 and the market had crashed..I got out of Real Estate. I SIM traded for a few months and did great, even with the silly Forex Made Easy program. I found that I was good when there was extreme volatility in the currency pairs. I was totally deluded. I opened up a $50,000.00 account and started trading a sizable number of lots. Looking back, the amount of delusion and stupidity I had almost defies belief. I started having some serious losing days..$5000.00 and up. I found I was totally unable to stop trading when I was down. No max daily loss limit could be adhered to. My heart would pound and my palms would sweat as I would try to double or triple my lot size in order to recoup my losses.

I started keeping a journal and when I'd read what I did, it was like I was seeing a whole different person. I blew out at least three $50,000.00 accounts. My girlfriend begged me to quit. I couldn't. I felt, I had put too much time and money in to give up. I tried automated trading and lost lots of money on that. I finally stopped trading for a few months...

Then I decided to try Futures. That was several years ago. I took many losses at that too, but now I was trading smaller amounts. But those small accounts were also blown out. Why I continued is a total mystery. I am doing fairly well now, but it will be a long time before I ever recoup what I lost. Honestly, all the time, money and anguish this has caused me is probably not worth whatever small success I have now. If I could go back in time, I would never get involved in this. Let's face it...like I wrote a while back..finding actual consistently profitable Retail traders is about as easy as finding Sasquatch.

You may or may not have now realized by now NOT to try to make back the money lost.

Obviously the goal for a struggling trader should always be to make it to profitability long term. And stay there.

But what happened in the past is in the past.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to SunTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
Oakland, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Phone
Trading: US Treasuries Futures
 
Posts: 83 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 95 given, 118 received


lancelottrader View Post
I first started trading after a friend took me to a Forex seminar sponsored by a company called Wizetrade. The product was called Forex made easy. It basically eschewed conventional trading procedures like Candle charts or price action. Instead you entered on a combination of green or red lights and crosses of green and red lines. Did I mention the software cost close to $4000.00? For reasons I still can hardly comprehend, I bought the software and embarked on a "life ruining" journey.
Was I a Gambler? I didn't think so at the time. I never had any interest in gambling in my entire life. Even the couple of times I went to Las Vegas, I never bothered gambling. I always thought it was silly. Nor would I say I had an addictive personality. I was able to drink alcohol moderately and do a few other things without ever having problems. I had always considered myself to be fairly well disciplined as well. I worked out, ate extremely healthy and never missed any obligations. But trading brought out a side to me that I had no idea existed.

When I began, I was in very good financial shape. I had plenty of money in Savings and I owned a nice home free and clear. I had done well investing in Real Estate, but since this was around 2009 and the market had crashed..I got out of Real Estate. I SIM traded for a few months and did great, even with the silly Forex Made Easy program. I found that I was good when there was extreme volatility in the currency pairs. I was totally deluded. I opened up a $50,000.00 account and started trading a sizable number of lots. Looking back, the amount of delusion and stupidity I had almost defies belief. I started having some serious losing days..$5000.00 and up. I found I was totally unable to stop trading when I was down. No max daily loss limit could be adhered to. My heart would pound and my palms would sweat as I would try to double or triple my lot size in order to recoup my losses.

I started keeping a journal and when I'd read what I did, it was like I was seeing a whole different person. I blew out at least three $50,000.00 accounts. My girlfriend begged me to quit. I couldn't. I felt, I had put too much time and money in to give up. I tried automated trading and lost lots of money on that. I finally stopped trading for a few months...

Then I decided to try Futures. That was several years ago. I took many losses at that too, but now I was trading smaller amounts. But those small accounts were also blown out. Why I continued is a total mystery. I am doing fairly well now, but it will be a long time before I ever recoup what I lost. Honestly, all the time, money and anguish this has caused me is probably not worth whatever small success I have now. If I could go back in time, I would never get involved in this. Let's face it...like I wrote a while back..finding actual consistently profitable Retail traders is about as easy as finding Sasquatch.

Why did you go for options + futures?

It seems to me that most beginners should start with unlevered / retail instruments like stock. Curious what attracted you to futures + options.

(FYI I just re-read "how i trade for a living" by gary smith - highly recommended and zero bs. one thing that I've been picking up from several investors across the spectrum is how they hate leverage.)

I keep on repeating to myself "there is no skill in clicking the button" - aka it takes no more wisdom to trade than not to trade. Also, while developing, it makes zero sense to trade in ES or SPX/ES options - it makes much more sense to trade SPY or something less levered (now - maybe /MES). AKA be product indifferent and size according to your account size.

It takes no different skill to use order entry "1" vs. order entry "10" (except psychologically).

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
Amsterdam + Netherland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation Global, PRT
Broker: IB and atm Tradestation Global as introducing broker. May change to PRT.
Trading: Emini ES, (I used to have some ETFs here, but now I cant buy them, only buy options. To protect me..
 
Adolpho911's Avatar
 
Posts: 8 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 5 given, 7 received

I have not read all of this. I just want to comment on alot of post said ;"your not gambling, you are trading. "
I will point out that all trading including risk management and targets are built on game theory. You ARE gambling. You just trying to be the casino that have the little edge. You will lose alot of times, depending on your approach. The trick is to have checked your edge if it gives you more winnings than you loose. (avg%winxavg win - avg%lossxavg loss gives you your expected win pr every trade from now. If you win your next trade tho is a coin flip. And I really don't know any better way to describe how to gamble than a coin toss!

Adolpho911
"Faith does not always let you fix the tuition fee; she delivers the educational wallop and sets her own bill" Jesse Livermore
"I am not curious when I know everything" Adolpho911
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
Market Wizard
west palm beach florida usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja trader
Broker: Optimus Futures/ Rithmic
Trading: Cl, TF
 
Posts: 945 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 943 given, 4,265 received


smtlaissezfaire View Post
Why did you go for options + futures?

It seems to me that most beginners should start with unlevered / retail instruments like stock. Curious what attracted you to futures + options.

(FYI I just re-read "how i trade for a living" by gary smith - highly recommended and zero bs. one thing that I've been picking up from several investors across the spectrum is how they hate leverage.)

I keep on repeating to myself "there is no skill in clicking the button" - aka it takes no more wisdom to trade than not to trade. Also, while developing, it makes zero sense to trade in ES or SPX/ES options - it makes much more sense to trade SPY or something less levered (now - maybe /MES). AKA be product indifferent and size according to your account size.

It takes no different skill to use order entry "1" vs. order entry "10" (except psychologically).

I never said options..I said I started with Forex and went to Futures.

Failure is not an option
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to lancelottrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
Boca Raton, FL
 
 
Posts: 117 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 68 received

It is a great misnomer that stocks are somehow "safer" than futures.

IMO having traded them both for many years it is exactly the opposite.

At least in so far as considering either "safer".

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
Oakland, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Phone
Trading: US Treasuries Futures
 
Posts: 83 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 95 given, 118 received

Interesting. How do you figure that?

For instance, based on notional value + being product indifferent: 2 ATM SPX options = 1 ES future = 10 SPY options = 1000 SPY shares.

So (and this is all assuming you're trading equity indexes + not spreading to reduce risk + before MES was introduced) - how could trading 1 ES be less risky than trading 1 share of SPY?

Also, if you do the math, you'll see you really need a non-trivial account to trade 1000 SPY at brokerages where you can buy an ES contract intraday for < $500 margins.

But yes - I think all things are risky if you don't know what you are doing. Walking down the street can be risky, as can driving an automobile at 120mph. But clearly (aside from certain situations) you'll be more alert when doing one over the other.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,092 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,712 given, 95,349 received

What is your response to this situation?

Tom1978 View Post
My 14 year old son is always on his phone.
My wife regularly confronts him with his behavior.

Nowadays he says: but dad is always looking at his charts. He is doing the same...

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
Boca Raton, FL
 
 
Posts: 117 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 26 given, 68 received



smtlaissezfaire View Post
Interesting. How do you figure that?

For instance, based on notional value + being product indifferent: 2 ATM SPX options = 1 ES future = 10 SPY options = 1000 SPY shares.

So (and this is all assuming you're trading equity indexes + not spreading to reduce risk + before MES was introduced) - how could trading 1 ES be less risky than trading 1 share of SPY?

Also, if you do the math, you'll see you really need a non-trivial account to trade 1000 SPY at brokerages where you can buy an ES contract intraday for < $500 margins.

But yes - I think all things are risky if you don't know what you are doing. Walking down the street can be risky, as can driving an automobile at 120mph. But clearly (aside from certain situations) you'll be more alert when doing one over the other.

Your words:

2 ATM SPX options = 1 ES future = 10 SPY options = 1000 SPY shares.

and

how could trading 1 ES be less risky than trading 1 share of SPY?

1 share? Typo I guess?

Anyway I said stocks, not ETF equivalent.

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Gambling (with life)


July 15, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Order Flow Tools w/MotiveWave & Zytrade Brokerage

Oct 22
 

Technical Analysis Workshop w/NinjaTrader

Oct 27
 

Bookmap

Oct TBD
 

SharkIndicators

Oct TBD
 

Carley Garner

Oct TBD
 

GruttePier

Oct TBD
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts