Gambling (with life) - futures io
futures io futures trading



Gambling (with life)


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated by joe s
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one DoubleUCapital with 10 posts (11 thanks)
    2. looks_two SunTrader with 9 posts (9 thanks)
    3. looks_3 ChrisDouthit with 5 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 smtlaissezfaire with 4 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one TheBenefactor with 17.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 8.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 bobwest with 6.3 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 lancelottrader with 5.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 6,512 views
    2. thumb_up 192 thanks given
    3. group 230 followers
    1. forum 76 replies
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Gambling (with life)

(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
New York + New York / USA
 
 
Posts: 75 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 2 given, 84 received

I think the distinction you want to really make are
the traders/investors who are aware and so are serious like business
then you have the AWARE gamblers, those who are, as you say, just enjoying a casino with much better payoff odds

but what is really "gambling with your life" is the people who fancy themselves traders or investors
and who take outsized risks and do FOMO and on and on..

most of these are spurred on by lucky gamblers...
in a pool of 100 people who risk too much, and do this, a few will actually succeed..
they will claim its their skill... (and if they dont get serious or start earning money making up some course you pay for, they will blow their accounts and eventually fall back to anonymity)...

these are akin to gambling addicts..

once in a while my wife and i will go to a casino..
i am blessed with a wife who is like me... ie. hate losing, like winning, define losing as less money than you came

i tend to win at the roulette table... but i call it losing slowly..
why? because i put my chips on the crosses.. and with a 5 dollar table and an 8 dollar pay out
i can put down 6 crosses, and 1 on a number... that gives me 25 numbers covered..
but i am not making much... if i make... i am also losing slowly if i lose
but i get way more in comps till they figure out that i am not like other "gamblers"
[been sent a cooler... was accused of stealing a 10k chip (to phase me), even clothing looked at. etc]

but i pointed out a true gambler to my wife..
a woman came down, and was placing small stacks of chips on lots of numbers..
i said to my wife, count the chips... she put down so many that even if she wins one of the numbers
the winning would not cover her losses.. she was playing to FEEL the win, not really have a win

i once met a man who bragged to me in the steam room how he made 50k the night before
he hated me the minute i asked: How much did you take home?
he gave it all back... in his mind, he won.. in my mind, he lost...

i think i will leave it at that..
as that should generate a lot of discussion.
the gambler tends to feel the win, even if they are losing
they also do things like take revenge positions... ie, go in and try to get it back

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Artfldgr for this post:

 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Is anyone actually making money?
186 thanks
Micro account vs Funded account (combine)
53 thanks
Are sharks watching on the other side?
32 thanks
Market profile entries/exits
25 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
22 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
Tel-Aviv Israel
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 54 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 37 given, 113 received

If you gamble in trading - you have no method/trading model with high probability winning #. You will lose and the unknown is just how fast your account will show balance 0.

If you gamble in the casino you will loss since the house got the edge. Every game you play your odds are lower than the house.

If you want to be a trader, learn the profession, have and edge, method/system that shows high winning probability. Above all have the mental capacity for this kind of work.

If you do not have it, keep your day job.

Simple.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to DoubleUCapital for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
San Francisco CA USA
 
 
Posts: 40 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 2 given, 15 received



DoubleUCapital View Post
If you gamble in trading - you have no method/trading model with high probability winning #. You will lose and the unknown is just how fast your account will show balance 0.

If you gamble in the casino you will loss since the house got the edge. Every game you play your odds are lower than the house.

Simple.

In blackjack players have the edge over the casino if they play the right system. That's why casinos are always keeping an eye out for these people and kicking them out.

The point is, if you're going to gamble, whether be in the casino for the stock market, gamble smart. Use the right system whatever you're doing and over the long term you'll have positive results.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, Ninja Trader
Trading: Forex, Futures (6E)
 
traderx4's Avatar
 
Posts: 38 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 38 given, 31 received


TheBenefactor View Post
Mike and all,

I don't know how many of you ran or worked for one of the largest hedge funds on the planet.

I have made millions of dollars (over and over).

Without the gamblers I would be driving a truck.

Most of you will hate me for this:

In the business, we LOVED GAMBLERS. Think of me as Steve Wynn, except I can do this from home and don't need to spend $300 Million on a big building and hire pretty waitresses to get you guys oiled up so you can dump all your money into my bank account.

Steve sells $29.00 books on how to beat the dealer.

Larry Williams (I know Larry well) recognized this very early and wrote "How I made $1 Million dollar trading commodities last Year"

Richard Dennis started the Turtles, hiring only gamblers by the way.

I love people who think they can come into a chat room and pick up the holy grail for free.

They have an addiction.

When I was seriously trading, thousands of contracts, millions of shares each day, DO YOU THINK I HAD ALL DAY TO POST CRAP ON WEB SITES TO HELP LITTLE TRADERS TRADING THEIR KIDS COLLEGE fund.

I never posted anything. Didn't have time.

At night, we flew out big time clients from the NY heliport to my home in East Hampton. No time to help the little guy.

I am 70 now. For fun I trade maybe 5 to 10 contracts, and I have some time to post stuff. Still I don't post thousands of times.

Anyone posting thousands of times IS A SHILL working for some idiot trying to TEACH YOU HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL and he will only charge you $50.00

WHY $50?

Because little people can only afford that.

There are whales out there, fund managers with fiduciary responsibilities who will pay you $30,000 per month if you are good.

And here is another stupid response I get. But the super duper trader LOVES PEOPLE SO HE WANTS TO HAVE A TRADING ROOM AND SHARE WITH ALL beause he is gregarious.

BS

I am gregarious.

I can spend time talking to a whole bunch of fun people. WHO ARE PAYING ME $30,000 per month.

Then if the above response is so good and truthful: "I am rich and want to share my secrets for $50.00 per month because I love people, WHY NOT DO IT FOR FREE?"

I get calls all the time to testify at CFTC and FINRA and SEC enforcement actions. So I know about all these rip off slobs.

They should get the death penalty.

At least John Gotti let you know that he was a mobster.

TB

Love your Candid honesty about how the sytem REALLY works!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to traderx4 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
Richardson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

I can so relate to this thread. I'm one of the little hopeful guys trying to figure trading out. I've read Al Brooks (I respect him a lot), watched Mack's Youtube's for years and I keep searching for the right method for me. I got laid off 6 months ago so I have had a lot screen time lately. But the unemployed doesn't need to give up money and I have. Not given up the farm, but I have paid some trading "tuition" to learn what does not work. I will probably just have to get a real job again. Been applying. I'm not sure how anyone really learns to daytrade unless already financially free, unless you work at night, but that won't work for me. And you can't cheat on your employer and trade during work hours. Not ethical.

And then there are all the emails I get from Ninjacators promising me they have discovered the next miracle solution for trading and getting rich. Really? I'm watching Market Depth Orderflow today and see that prices knife through "support" and "resistance" at will. But I can be a sucker for these things. True confession. Anyone making money with the Volume Spread Scalper they pushed a few weeks ago? I bought it. Made a few bucks with micro contracts, but only because I scaled in to trades. A bit scared to really trust it. Just one of many ideas I've tried.

I've even been in Al's trading room, which is great education, but most of the time the market is in a "limit order market phase" and he can't call those trades out complete with entry, stop, and exit, and still run the trading room. He does give good advice and things to consider, but no short cuts to profits. Each person must do their own hunting.

My problem is my time is running out. I wanted to prove I could trade by making some money so I wouldn't need to get another job. That is not a good recipe for starting out.

Ok I vented pretty well for my first post. Sorry, but this thread really hit home for me.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Medboy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
Lake Worth Florida USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 22 given, 11 received


Medboy View Post
I can so relate to this thread. I'm one of the little hopeful guys trying to figure trading out. I've read Al Brooks (I respect him a lot), watched Mack's Youtube's for years and I keep searching for the right method for me. I got laid off 6 months ago so I have had a lot screen time lately. But the unemployed doesn't need to give up money and I have. Not given up the farm, but I have paid some trading "tuition" to learn what does not work. I will probably just have to get a real job again. Been applying. I'm not sure how anyone really learns to daytrade unless already financially free, unless you work at night, but that won't work for me. And you can't cheat on your employer and trade during work hours. Not ethical.

And then there are all the emails I get from Ninjacators promising me they have discovered the next miracle solution for trading and getting rich. Really? I'm watching Market Depth Orderflow today and see that prices knife through "support" and "resistance" at will. But I can be a sucker for these things. True confession. Anyone making money with the Volume Spread Scalper they pushed a few weeks ago? I bought it. Made a few bucks with micro contracts, but only because I scaled in to trades. A bit scared to really trust it. Just one of many ideas I've tried.

I've even been in Al's trading room, which is great education, but most of the time the market is in a "limit order market phase" and he can't call those trades out complete with entry, stop, and exit, and still run the trading room. He does give good advice and things to consider, but no short cuts to profits. Each person must do their own hunting.

My problem is my time is running out. I wanted to prove I could trade by making some money so I wouldn't need to get another job. That is not a good recipe for starting out.

Ok I vented pretty well for my first post. Sorry, but this thread really hit home for me.


Nice post and honesty. Your situation actually reminded me of a time when I was starting to turn the corner on trading and and I asked the group/chat room I belonged to if it made sense to quit my job and take a year off to really see if I could make this thing work. Most in the group who said they tried that basically told me that made things worse. If you arenít ready it just leads to more pressure, over trading, etc. For some, having more time is obviously a great solution but maybe not for others, especially if you arenít in a focused environment, with a real edge, with good habits and discipline already established. Are you going to stop trading at 9:46 because you hit your limit down for the day? Or will you sit at the computer all day because you have nothing else to do and are looking to get back to even and make the pain go away. Most of us know how that turns out. Of course if your day job takes place during market hours like most peopleís does, that doesnít work too well either. I guess thats what makes this whole deal so challenging.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
Tel-Aviv Israel
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 54 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 37 given, 113 received


ChrisDouthit View Post
In blackjack players have the edge over the casino if they play the right system. That's why casinos are always keeping an eye out for these people and kicking them out.

The point is, if you're going to gamble, whether be in the casino for the stock market, gamble smart. Use the right system whatever you're doing and over the long term you'll have positive results.

When you have an edge (statistical advantage) it is not gambling. That what you need at trading. You do not have it at any game at the casino, not even blackjack as the rules prohibit counting and they added more cards to the block. (no edge)

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
Richardson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

I appreciate your perspective. Yeah, I stay at the computer and try to make back my losses when I'm behind. Doesn't work often enough. If I haven't done well by 1:30pm CST, it won't probably end well for the day. I may need to research markets I can trade in evening hours or use longer time frames when I get a day job again.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
Tel-Aviv Israel
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 54 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 37 given, 113 received

@Medboy,

You said" My problem is my time is running out. I wanted to prove I could trade by making some money so I wouldn't need to get another job. That is not a good recipe for starting out. "

Trading is a profession. it can take years, many thousands of screen hours to identify your edge (if you find one)

You will not say what you said if it was to be a lawyer (they make a lot of money) or accountants or a orthopedic doctor. WHY? because they learn the profession for years before they see the first $ comes in. Why do you think trading is different? Why do you think it easy to learn how to do it and make money? how many successful traders do you know personally? (not the ones you talk to on the internet at a chat room), but real day to day financial traders. Ask them how long did it take them to be a trader - a professional that makes living from trading.

Read my and others posts at the at the thread:


Good luck.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
Richardson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received


Good points and thanks for the link. I'll check it out. I have read one of the books by Mark Douglas. He was a good teacher.

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Gambling (with life)


June 23, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Every journal equals ten meals for the hungry

Now
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts