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Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...


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Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...

  #171 (permalink)
 joe s 
sacramento ca us
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Thanks for all your insight

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  #172 (permalink)
 Grantx 
Reading UK
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Hey @TropicalTrader
Since you have recommended books that have become some of my all-time favourites, here is one I think you might enjoy. I purchased it today and so far cannot put it down. David Eagleman is a neuroscientist and has created some really interesting videos which you can find on youtube if you are at all interested.


Enjoy.


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  #173 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
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Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
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Grantx View Post
Hey @TropicalTrader
Since you have recommended books that have become some of my all-time favourites, here is one I think you might enjoy. I purchased it today and so far cannot put it down. David Eagleman is a neuroscientist and has created some really interesting videos which you can find on youtube if you are at all interested.


Enjoy.


Thanks @Grantx ! I'll be listening to it soon!

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  #174 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Today I was listening to The Miracle of Self Discipline by Brian Tracy. One great concept is his "law of 3". Here's how it works. Ask yourself: What is the #1 most beneficial task you could do that would benefit your trading? write it down. Now ask, What would be the second most beneficial thing I could do to improve my trading? write it down. And one last time, what is the third most beneficial thing I could to improve as a trader?

Now, focus on those 3, put those hours in. Right now it's just after midnight pst, on a saturday night, what am I doing? Trading on the simulator.. Usually I would be hanging out with friends, but tonight I'm getting in some quality me time.

Here's my current 3:

1. At least an hour in the eves trading on the simulator at 2x or 3x speed.
2. Watching my charts on the simulator at 10x for 30 minutes, not trading, just watch.
3. Create a video playbook with my best trades on different types of days to watch regularly.



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  #175 (permalink)
 joe s 
sacramento ca us
 
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I will take a look at that book thanks

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  #176 (permalink)
peroksid
Russia, Siberia
 
Posts: 7 since Nov 2019
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Many people overestimate psychology in trading.
This is because a signal to buy or sell is always noise and subjective.
You think you have a lack of discipline because you again not take you profit and leave money on a table?
Or because you again take a huge stop loss? Or maybe you again hesistate and don't take your perfect A+ setup?
Or maybe you overtrade again?
This is not due a lack of discipline or psychology, this is because your trading system is not formalized precisely.
And you can't find a reliable signal.

I can give you an example.

I have seen a group of traders how detected a huge market participant. They detected them using order flow and footprint.
This market participant, probably, worked at a bank. He buy a EUR on his own money, then, he uses a huge funds from bank(client's money) and push the price for a few ticks. So he was in profit for his own money. He do it on the same time during trading session. And the group of traders participate with him on this move. Then he realised this and changed slightly his tactics. But the group again deciphered it.))))

I have seen a trader, who gaze at order book, record videos, then review and find algos and market participants. This is a very objective and formalized signal
But algos usually short-lived.

Man, when you see such precisely setups, will you hesistate? Will you have a psychology issues?


P.S.
The group of traders was in Russian Market. And it was a currency section of Moscow Exchange.
The trader with algos - look at them in cryptocurrency. They use a special scalp tool to trade crypto - similar to QScalp or Jigsaw.

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  #177 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Thanks for your post, see my comments in blue


peroksid View Post

Many people overestimate psychology in trading. My experience is the opposite


This is because a signal to buy or sell is always noise and subjective.

There is always some noise and subjectivity but there can be clear repeating tendencies.

You think you have a lack of discipline because you again not take you profit and leave money on a table?
Or because you again take a huge stop loss? Or maybe you again hesistate and don't take your perfect A+ setup?
Or maybe you overtrade again?

YES

This is not due a lack of discipline or psychology, this is because your trading system is not formalized precisely.
And you can't find a reliable signal.

I think this is a psychological issue, trading with real money but without being confident in your edge.

I can give you an example.

I have seen a group of traders how detected a huge market participant. They detected them using order flow and footprint.
This market participant, probably, worked at a bank. He buy a EUR on his own money, then, he uses a huge funds from bank(client's money) and push the price for a few ticks. So he was in profit for his own money. He do it on the same time during trading session. And the group of traders participate with him on this move. Then he realised this and changed slightly his tactics. But the group again deciphered it.))))

?? this is a murky example imo

I have seen a trader, who gaze at order book, record videos, then review and find algos and market participants. This is a very objective and formalized signal
But algos usually short-lived.

not very objective imo, its a very short-term move, now you're competing with thousands of algos who process info 1000x faster then you

Man, when you see such precisely setups, will you hesistate? Will you have a psychology issues?

I don't think those are precise setups personally

P.S.
The group of traders was in Russian Market. And it was a currency section of Moscow Exchange.
The trader with algos - look at them in cryptocurrency. They use a special scalp tool to trade crypto - similar to QScalp or Jigsaw.

I use bookmap but I don't base my entries on it. Sometimes I use it for getting out of a trade as its running in the desired direction. I also watch to see where the strongest liquidity levels are that have been there for a long time and how price reacts to it when it hits the levels. Personally I would only use it with high liquidity markets like ES or Eurostoxx,, I'm definitely not an expert with it though, that's just from my personal experience.

Imo, if you want to understand the market on a deeper level and get beyond the noise, learn Auction Market Theory..

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  #178 (permalink)
peroksid
Russia, Siberia
 
Posts: 7 since Nov 2019
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TropicalTrader View Post
Thanks for your post, see my comments in blue

I have seen a trader, who gaze at order book, record videos, then review and find algos and market participants. This is a very objective and formalized signal
But algos usually short-lived.

not very objective imo, its a very short-term move, now you're competing with thousands of algos who process info 1000x faster then you

Here is a link with example of such kind of algo.
There was a 2 big sell orders - 80K and 40k on the offer. They moved every 5 minutes and 12 seconds below, if nobody hit them. Finally they got filled.
This was repeated several times for a week.
I mean each time the same 2 big orders 80K and 40K appears again and again and do the same.

If you have managed to detect this. You can open a short position with it.
1. you know exactly how it works(moved every 5m12s)
2. you know that it is a real size, so you can close your short position when buyers hit 75 % of that 80k big order. So you have a solid stop loss.
3. you know that if buyers hit it all or it is suddenly dissapear - you must close your position.
There is no any psychology issues with it.
You have a solid reason to open position(algo appears and start to work) and you have a solid reason to close your position(algos end or removed or filled)
There is no any hope about - maybe it can go or no go. Maybe I should stay in a trade little more. Maybe I should give it a room , etc.



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  #179 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
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peroksid View Post
Here is a link with example of such kind of algo.
There was a 2 big sell orders - 80K and 40k on the offer. They moved every 5 minutes and 12 seconds below, if nobody hit them. Finally they got filled.
This was repeated several times for a week.
I mean each time the same 2 big orders 80K and 40K appears again and again and do the same.

If you have managed to detect this. You can open a short position with it.
1. you know exactly how it works(moved every 5m12s)
2. you know that it is a real size, so you can close your short position when buyers hit 75 % of that 80k big order. So you have a solid stop loss.
3. you know that if buyers hit it all or it is suddenly dissapear - you must close your position.
There is no any psychology issues with it.
You have a solid reason to open position(algo appears and start to work) and you have a solid reason to close your position(algos end or removed or filled)
There is no any hope about - maybe it can go or no go. Maybe I should stay in a trade little more. Maybe I should give it a room , etc.



Interesting... on my laptop right now away from my trading terminal so can't see it properly. If you have a great edge, enjoy it while it lasts (which probably wont be very long).

I'm not so interested in short term edges because I see trading as a life-long marathon. The work I've done on my psychology has changed everything for me including how I view trading in general, how I approach markets, how I view my role as a trader, etc. I've found (thanks FuturesTrader71) and created (my renko/indicator setups) a repeatable structure that I can use each day and over each longer period, ex: 50-100 days, see the positive results of my edge, without getting too caught up emotionally in the day to day ups and downs - or blowing up my account or a large portion of it along the way. That's the holy grail for me..

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  #180 (permalink)
 
FastNCurious's Avatar
 FastNCurious 
saint louis MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: NQ, ES, YM, CL, GC
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TropicalTrader View Post
Interesting... on my laptop right now away from my trading terminal so can't see it properly. If you have a great edge, enjoy it while it lasts (which probably wont be very long).

I'm not so interested in short term edges because I see trading as a life-long marathon. The work I've done on my psychology has changed everything for me including how I view trading in general, how I approach markets, how I view my role as a trader, etc. I've found (thanks FuturesTrader71) and created (my renko/indicator setups) a repeatable structure that I can use each day and over each longer period, ex: 50-100 days, see the positive results of my edge, without getting too caught up emotionally in the day to day ups and downs - or blowing up my account or a large portion of it along the way. That's the holy grail for me..

Well said, find what works for you. For me it is algo trading. I could never stare at a screen and trade actively. Not for me.

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