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Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...


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Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...

  #161 (permalink)
 
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 Big Mike 
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Webinar recording (sincere apologies on the delay, you can read my journal thread for reasons why):



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  #162 (permalink)
 Grantx 
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Big Mike View Post
Please give us feedback and comments:

I thought the webinar was excellent. Thank you TropicalTrader/Big Mike/Terry. There is a lot that can be expanded on but I want to mention something from your previous post where you talked about transitioning from frustration to acceptance. This can be a challenging and confusing process because exactly how does one attain acceptance?

Dr Steenbarger describes exactly how to accomplish this in his book the daily trading coach, lesson 27 : Build emotional resilience.

My paraphrased version:
I never understood this concept but bear with me. Going into drawdown is one of the greatest opportunities you can experience. When you have the ability to bounce back from a trading slump and back into profit, it is accompanied by the most amazing sense of accomplishment and achievement. When you can repeat this process on a smaller scale you will naturally build the confidence in yourself that any particular drawdown does not matter because you have the belief that you can pull yourself out of it.

The trick when you are tilting is to not over indulge your negative spiral. You have to have the discipline to take it on the chin and walk away....contain the damage. You will make it a lot easier for your future self to pull the situation out of the hole when the damage is kept to a minimum.

Its all part of the cycle of heroes journey (google Joesph Campbell). Its a core narrative of the human condition which plays out in movies, culture, everything including trading.
-The call to adventure
-crossing from the known into the unknown
-Your challenge
-Death and rebirth
-Transformation (like the phoenix or something)
-Atonement
-Your return as a new stronger person

Trading gives you the opportunity to transform. See the drawdown as your test and part of your journey. That, I believe, is how you go from frustration to acceptance.

Good luck

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  #163 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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Grantx View Post

The trick when you are tilting is to not over indulge your negative spiral. You have to have the discipline to take it on the chin and walk away....contain the damage. You will make it a lot easier for your future self to pull the situation out of the hole when the damage is kept to a minimum.

Its all part of the cycle of heroes journey (google Joseph Campbell). Its a core narrative of the human condition which plays out in movies, culture, everything including trading.
-The call to adventure
-crossing from the known into the unknown
-Your challenge
-Death and rebirth
-Transformation (like the phoenix or something)
-Atonement
-Your return as a new stronger person

Trading gives you the opportunity to transform. See the drawdown as your test and part of your journey. That, I believe, is how you go from frustration to acceptance.

Good luck

Thanks @Grantx ! I really like what you shared.

This week I'm listening to The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler. It's an epic book. One of his unique concepts is the idea of Inchworm - I think this ties in beautifully. The gist is that for an inchworm to move, it has to plant its rear and then push forward, then pull up its rear a bit closer to the front, plant it and move forward.




The left side is our worst game, the right side is our best game. If we dont' make our worst game better then we don't get the forward momentum. This was my mistake for the longest time. My best game kept getting better, but my worst didn't. It was like an anchor drowning me..

As our worst gets better we are able to contain the damage like you mentioned.. As we manage to inch forward, with higher highs and higher lows, we move into a new territory!

Something else I've been thinking of lately is this idea that "how you do one thing is how you do everything". I don't think that applies "across the board to every little thing" but its definitely worth thinking about. Many of the mistakes I was making in poker were also showing up in my trading. Ex: entering a trade/bet without great cards/setup due to boredom or wanting to make things happen. Or getting frustrated after a few losses and making suboptimal decisions..

Cultivating patience in trading and poker also makes me less prone to getting frustrated while driving or dealing with challenging people..

I remember Dr. Steenbarger saying "find out what sets you off". In The Mental Game of Poker, Jared goes into great detail on the different types of tilt and why they happen, I highly recommend..

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  #164 (permalink)
 
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TropicalTrader View Post

I remember Dr. Steenbarger saying "find out what sets you off". In The Mental Game of Poker, Jared goes into great detail on the different types of tilt and why they happen, I highly recommend..


I came from a poker background before trading myself, always a fan of Jared. His interview on Chat With Traders is great also. Im sure you've listened to it, I heard you reference Chat with Traders in the webinar, but for anyone else who hasn't, def. worth checking out.

I also use a lot of poker analogies mentally to help keep me on track with trading. Bank roll management, waiting for premium hands (ie great set ups), getting out of hands where the odds aren't on my side after the flop/turn/river (ie cutting loses quick), etc.

Enjoyed the webinar, thanks for doing that!

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  #165 (permalink)
 Grantx 
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@TropicalTrader Ive read the mental game of Poker thanks to you. One of the best books I have ever read.
Her is my personal profile which I look at every single day:



Something I am working on improving is my development of expectations and goals. I think it is very important to distinguish between the two (Chapter 6: Goals). For the logest time I refused to set financial goals because of the belief that the market is totally random and therefore I have no control of the outcome of my performance. But he explains the fallacy of this approach and goes on to say that when you think its bad to set results oriented goals you are really attempting to avoid failure whether you are conscious of that decision or not.

But really great stuff man. I like the way you think. I hope you continue to post more of your thoughts and ideas. Would you mind sharing the PDF or powerpoint that you used in the webinar?

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  #166 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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Grantx View Post

...But really great stuff man. I like the way you think. I hope you continue to post more of your thoughts and ideas. Would you mind sharing the PDF or powerpoint that you used in the webinar?

@Grantx Nice work on your profile and learning model! This week I've started listening to The Mental Game of Poker 2, have you read that one yet? He says that the first book was mostly relevant to the rear side of the inchworm and the second book is geared toward the front side..

Here is the pdf of my presentation https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0598/6757/files/TropicalTrader-presentation2020.pdf

Something else I thought of after listening to some of book 2 - making a profile more like a volume profile. In that middle 68%, what is the bulk of the "b-game/mid-range actions" I'm performing, ex: watching the action, breathing deep, making trades, reminding myself things, etc - on the left side is when I make suboptimal decisions due to anger related tilt - on the right side is when I get very quick flashes of intuition that help me make the best decisions (ex: not trading one of my favourite setups which normally I would take). Nerding out on the things I do when I'm at the very top of my game, those days when I'm "crushing it".. Video recording your sessions plus making text notes on your charts is powerful, you can review what your thoughts were and how they impacted your decisions.. I journal my trading thoughts right on my main chart, constantly updating them as I go..

The financial goals part is interesting, I'm not focused on that at this point in my journey. My goals have to do with managing my state effectively and making excellent decisions, plus not making bad decisions & losing my trader state. At some point down the road Ill be more open to setting the financial goals.

I like how you listed simple approach. I feel this is really important especially with the higher volatility. Having a lot of things to process and very little time to do it can often lead to mistakes or tilting. This month I've tweaked a few things including getting rid of bookmap and merging my footprint charts with my renko charts. I've had to make some adjustments for the higher volatility.

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  #167 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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This is one of my new best practices, expressing trade ideas on the screen. Complete with opposite scenario. I find this is helpful for me to let go easier and stay focused when I don't get the win..


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  #168 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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FT71 POSTED SOME EXCELLENT ADVICE TODAY



This one... wow. Very relevant.

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  #169 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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  #170 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
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So that completes the example of how I jot my trade ideas, doing my best to not get a "bad bias" aka locked in scenario and to prepare for adversity so its not a suprise/shock when the trade *loses.


If you videorecord your sessions with these types of notes and then watch it later (3x speed or skim) its an effective way to improve your skills.

*I usually only say profit or expense but I've been playing a lot of poker lately. Right now in my journey I'm using it as a healthy tactic for gaining deeper acceptance of the plus and minus part of "the game".

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Last Updated on April 13, 2021


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