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STOPS are Frustrating (SL) ...to take or not to take
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STOPS are Frustrating (SL) ...to take or not to take

  #71 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portland, OR
 
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Massive l's Avatar
 
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I've tweaked my method since my post and am now using defined stops based on the volume profile.
I've been moving more and more towards a linear trading system.

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  #72 (permalink)
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siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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tigertrader View Post
Yeah, the third piece of advice is the most difficult, but it's also the most important. Nobody said it's going to be easy, but adding to and pressing your winners is where the "art" in the "art of trading" comes into direct play, and where the big money is made. Just ask George Soros, he wasn't busy doing a a linear regression study to determine the r-factor of the trade when he was in a good position, he was busy piling in with both hands.

Personally, I know when I'm right and I got the market by the balls, and I know when the market has me by the balls...it's called" feel". There is nothing wrong with taking a quantitative approach to trading, but it will never replace an "intuitive market sense" of price action, that has been developed and honed from years of trading the markets.

my short and pointed question posted to you is this,

why a good and reasonable and profitable trader would want to turn a perfectly profitable trade....

into something that perhaps might or might not become profitable....

such as adding more positions to the same already perfectly profitable run with or without runners....?

consistently profitable traders do not trade on feel or feeling or gut feeling or intuitive market sense or intuition or WHATEVER THAT IS NOT ALREADY IN THEIR TRADING PLANS, my friend....

they only trade one way.... that is.... their own already proven profitable personal setups or nothing at all....

and if the intuition or experienced gut feelings trading is included in your profitable trading plans, so be it.... and more power to you, really.

sorry to contradict you, tigertrader who has been very good and respectable.


Last edited by nakachalet; September 26th, 2011 at 05:09 PM.
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  #73 (permalink)
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Las Vegas, USA
 
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Ever try position/swing trading on fewer contracts with bigger stops? Perhaps consider quitting the "grind" of day trading?

You may want to checkout Nadex.com as well. You can do binaries and "bull-spreads" on there. Then you will limit your risk and not get stopped out as often. When volatility is high, the reward/risk can super huge on Nadex. Seems like if you take lots of "nibbles" at the market, the reward risk can be greater than if you were to trade futures.

If you were to go on to Nadex and put on some huge position sizes that are say, 20%+ of your account, be prepared to blow out your account pretty quickly. But if you are looking for the intraday "black swan" events, you can hit them can come out ahead.

Most people would totally disagree with this Nadex approach, that's ok. Just an idea.

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  #74 (permalink)
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siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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are you promoting something without paying big mike?


Baseheadz View Post
Ever try position/swing trading on fewer contracts with bigger stops? Perhaps consider quitting the "grind" of day trading?

You may want to checkout Nadex.com as well. You can do binaries and "bull-spreads" on there. Then you will limit your risk and not get stopped out as often. When volatility is high, the reward/risk can super huge on Nadex. Seems like if you take lots of "nibbles" at the market, the reward risk can be greater than if you were to trade futures.

If you were to go on to Nadex and put on some huge position sizes that are say, 20%+ of your account, be prepared to blow out your account pretty quickly. But if you are looking for the intraday "black swan" events, you can hit them can come out ahead.

Most people would totally disagree with this Nadex approach, that's ok. Just an idea.

if you are trying to promote something,

you really ought to pay your dues to big mike first.

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  #75 (permalink)
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I'm not affiliated with NADEX. Nadex is an exchange. It's no different than somebody saying to trade binary options on the S&P 500.

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  #76 (permalink)
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I did go ahead and open a demo account at Nadex and I can confirm that this is super cool. Perfect example of taking advantage of a big short opportunity into the close today on the NQ and TF in the out of the money binaries and bull spreads and if I did this is futures I would have probably stopped out at the high this afternoon around 3:15PM EST, only to watch the market tank into the close.

I'm not sure if this is the absolute best way to trade as the MMs are making money on wide spreads, but I have to say, that with the intraday volatility so nuts these days, it is worth exploring options markets that are ok to daytrade without having to shell out too much vol when you feel like taking a long gamma position.

I think that in super choppy low-volatile markets, it could be ok to sell juiced vol all day long in these contracts.

I'm not sure that you can get really good leverage in the exchange listed binaries on futures or cash indices on CBOE or whoever else is doing this. But I'd seriously like to know if there are other options markets that are good for day trading that provide decent leverage.

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  #77 (permalink)
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siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Baseheadz View Post
I did go ahead and open a demo account at Nadex and I can confirm that this is super cool. Perfect example of taking advantage of a big short opportunity into the close today on the NQ and TF in the out of the money binaries and bull spreads and if I did this is futures I would have probably stopped out at the high this afternoon around 3:15PM EST, only to watch the market tank into the close.

I'm not sure if this is the absolute best way to trade as the MMs are making money on wide spreads, but I have to say, that with the intraday volatility so nuts these days, it is worth exploring options markets that are ok to daytrade without having to shell out too much vol when you feel like taking a long gamma position.

I think that in super choppy low-volatile markets, it could be ok to sell juiced vol all day long in these contracts.

I'm not sure that you can get really good leverage in the exchange listed binaries on futures or cash indices on CBOE or whoever else is doing this. But I'd seriously like to know if there are other options markets that are good for day trading that provide decent leverage.

joining you here as promised.

NOW it is beginning to get interesting.

i'll be anxiously awaiting the continuous development and numerous subliminal promotion that you'll enlighten many of us who always welcome anything new and profitable....

have fun, Baseheadz. and good trading as well.

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  #78 (permalink)
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yeah I know. lol.

I've just been trying to figure out a way in which I can "comfortably" put on positions and not get stopped out. I've tried martingale's on my robotic futures systems and I could never get it to workout where things were "comfortable."

But Martingale could be applied to intraday options.

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  #79 (permalink)
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For ES I use 6 tick stop.
if its a good entry it will work if not yer out .
i do like baseball 3 strikes and im out for the day.


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  #80 (permalink)
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Huh


I am not sure why we are talking about stops as an individual item of our trading. I don't trade futures, but looking at the FX markets i'd suggest that one should examine their trading method if all those issues are at play. Simple recommendations around stops for me are:

1) Must use them, they are core part of your system.

If stops don't work for you, it means your system (method) of trading is floored. Go back to drawing board. For me the system (method) works if i get following results on forward testing:

1) Overall accuracy of trades must be at least 50%
2) The winning trades on average must be at least two times the size of average loosing trades
3) The maximum loosing trade can not be bigger then average winning trade
4) The maximum loosing trade in a period can not exceed 1% of my capital (this is very personal thing)

To achieve this you will have to fine tune your entries and exits and adjust stop losses accordingly through the series of back test's and forward testing exercises. Now one but most critical thing is i do not believe in fixed stop losses. Markets are different every day, teh range, volatility and targets. Use Fibs, MA's or whatever your method is made of as stop-loss and profit target. Each method or trading system, as much importance is to define entry, even more important is to define exit, and how to know whether to stay in a trade or not.

Cut the story short, if you having problems with your stops that means that your method or system of trading is not complete and that one of the critical factors has not been proven correctly. The good book that talks about adaptivity of the markets is John Ehlers Rocket Science for Traders, you don't need to like and undrstand everything he said in that book, but understand one thing, everyday bunch of people trade markets, and everyday that is different bunch of people which acts differently. One man's short is another man's long. Accept that and ensure that your system is adaptive to the market conditions. Do not have expectations pre trade as to how much profit your are going to make out of it. As someone mentioned before take what is given and dont winge about it.

Sry to blur all this stuff, but S/L's are critical safety component of trading but only that component, each component does not work independently of others, if one component does not work, fin tune the system and it will happen for you too.

Markets are logical and
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