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New to Futures, but Hitting the Wall
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New to Futures, but Hitting the Wall

  #1 (permalink)
Bend + OR/USA
 
 
Posts: 19 since Aug 2019
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New to Futures, but Hitting the Wall

So, itís probably my third week trading futures (day trading) and sadly, Iím not doing so well. Iíve gotten trapped a lot, with a great deal of false breakouts, making bad decisions, like chasing a breakout, and then putting in a limit order in way too high on the move, and then watching it pull back and getting f******. Mostly, though, itís perhaps overtrading, getting eaten up by commissions, and all of the tiny losses that are accumulating massively.

Iím feeling pretty defeated. I know I need to lower my position sizes. At this point, I had considered walking away, and taking my money off the table (Iím down about 1300)

Donít get me wrong. I have made some beautiful trades. I caught two gorgeous second entries this morning.

That being said, I really need to find some better direction. I was pretty damn successful in my stock trading, and I have never allowed myself to lose this much money in my life. However, Iím getting to the point where something has to change, otherwise, this is clearly a poor investment.

From you experienced/profitable traders out there, if you have any solid advice you might give, please feel free to pass it my way. I study/read about the market probably 25 hours a week, so I am in no way lacking dedication/motivation.

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  #2 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Tallinn, Estonia
 
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Favorite Futures: NAS100
 
lemons's Avatar
 
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Start with micro contacts

https://futures.io/emini-emicro-index-futures-trading/28002-trading-new-cme-e-mi...ym-m2k-other-micros.html

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  #3 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
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Wizard3ootz View Post
So, it’s probably my third week trading futures (day trading) and sadly, I’m not doing so well. I’ve gotten trapped a lot, with a great deal of false breakouts, making bad decisions, like chasing a breakout, and then putting in a limit order in way too high on the move, and then watching it pull back and getting f******. Mostly, though, it’s perhaps overtrading, getting eaten up by commissions, and all of the tiny losses that are accumulating massively.

I’m feeling pretty defeated. I know I need to lower my position sizes. At this point, I had considered walking away, and taking my money off the table (I’m down about 1300)

Don’t get me wrong. I have made some beautiful trades. I caught two gorgeous second entries this morning.

That being said, I really need to find some better direction. I was pretty damn successful in my stock trading, and I have never allowed myself to lose this much money in my life. However, I’m getting to the point where something has to change, otherwise, this is clearly a poor investment.

From you experienced/profitable traders out there, if you have any solid advice you might give, please feel free to pass it my way. I study/read about the market probably 25 hours a week, so I am in no way lacking dedication/motivation.

1) lower size
2) start a journal,start a daily goal list, every 15 minutes write down in your journal what the market is doing/how your feeling & be honest with your self
3) whats your daily routine, this is the big leagues. MJ wouldn't walk out on to the court with out some routine you should treat trading the same, you need to get into the correct mindset before every session.
4) Stick to one commodity
5) look at the micros
6) do you know why your trading breakouts? - do you have a record of winning breakouts?
7) what is your go to trade
8) what is your ideal market are you a high volatility guy or do you like slower markets. Also you need to identify what we are currently in and fit your trading around that.. you move around the market the market doesn't move around you

small losses are a good thing

it seems you are very attached to winning, I'd suggest you do some reading up on how to handle this.. my go to book is the chimp paradox

some guys and gals spend 10 years of figuring things out, it takes time ( idk how long you've been doing this )

-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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  #4 (permalink)
Seattle WA/USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
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NW Trader's Avatar
 
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Wizard3ootz View Post
So, itís probably my third week trading futures (day trading) and sadly, Iím not doing so well. Iíve gotten trapped a lot, with a great deal of false breakouts, making bad decisions, like chasing a breakout, and then putting in a limit order in way too high on the move, and then watching it pull back and getting f******. Mostly, though, itís perhaps overtrading, getting eaten up by commissions, and all of the tiny losses that are accumulating massively.

Iím feeling pretty defeated. I know I need to lower my position sizes. At this point, I had considered walking away, and taking my money off the table (Iím down about 1300)

Donít get me wrong. I have made some beautiful trades. I caught two gorgeous second entries this morning.

That being said, I really need to find some better direction. I was pretty damn successful in my stock trading, and I have never allowed myself to lose this much money in my life. However, Iím getting to the point where something has to change, otherwise, this is clearly a poor investment.

From you experienced/profitable traders out there, if you have any solid advice you might give, please feel free to pass it my way. I study/read about the market probably 25 hours a week, so I am in no way lacking dedication/motivation.

Frankly, I would first move to a Simulated account and work on improving consistency. For me, a sim account is only good for a few weeks because psychologically I know it's play money and eventually I started acting that way. But, two or three weeks should help smooth out your strategy. Then move to the micros. They are the best thing invented yet for beginners because there is real money and real commissions involved, but you're not likely to lose your shirt because of the lower values.

Make sure you HAVE a strategy. If not, work on that.

Once in the micros, choose just one to trade for awhile. When I first started I tried to watch several because the impulse to trade is so strong that I was always looking for a trade developing. What I often found was that while I was switching my screen from market to market, a nice trade would be developing somewhere that I would eventually see but usually one or two bars too late. I'm still trading too many markets but my strategy is firm enough that I don't spend a lot of time "wondering" if I see a setup or not. Also, when you're watching several markets, switching screens and so forth, you tend to over-trade.

Finally, my belief is spelled out in the avatar that you see on my post: It's a marathon, not a sprint. Make sure that your risk management allows you to lose a few while you learn and yet not lose so much that you can't show up tomorrow morning with a smile on your face ready to trade once again. If you don't find trading fascinating and you don't derive pleasure from it, then it's probably a waste of your time and money.

Best of luck and happy trading to you!

Mike
NW Trader

There is no path to happiness. Happiness is the path.
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  #5 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Dallas, TX
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
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Hi
Welcome. I think your goal for the first couple of years is not to lose money and blow up your account.

There are tons of do's and don'ts. The best advice I can give ( already mentioned above) for new trader is:

Trade very small ( micros with a 5-10K account)
Add only to winners.

Good luck,
K

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  #6 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
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@Wizard3ootz What's up man!? Trust me we've all been there. Before I trade any strategy live I automate the best I can then backtest it over multiple markets. I go over this sort of thing in detail in my journal or maybe on a few other posts on the regular forums. I need to know what to expect so I'm not purely gambling. That's the the first step I would look into. if not that then at least take all of your trades so far and put stats together on that. winning %, r/r, expectancy, max win, max loss, avg win, avg loss.

we all go through losing phases and the key is to not over trade and to cut the loser so you have money left when your strat starts winning again and you can maximize your account. If you're not sure then you need to take a big step back and trade some strategies sim for a while.

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  #7 (permalink)
Market Wizard
desert CA
 
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Wizard3ootz View Post

I was pretty damn successful in my stock trading, and I have never allowed myself to lose this much money in my life. However, I’m getting to the point where something has to change, otherwise, this is clearly a poor investment.

I don't get this statement. If you were that successful with stock trading, and never lost that much nor had a losing day like this, it sounds like you're in the top tier of stock traders in the world. A 1300 loss day can be a typical losing day for a successful futures trader provided it's rare and they make up for it in r/r over days and weeks for the rest of the year trading.

And tbh, I never did that well as above described trading stocks i.e. I'd already long hit a 1300+ losing day when trying to trade stocks or options in the past as part of my long trading journey. And it's taken me too many years and wasted avenues to finally get a profitable year with a least futures daytrading. Swing trading stocks or options still mystifies me. So manipulated, pumped and dumped, zirp insider buybacking, etc. and gappy and feinting from day to day. Always was a nightmare for me to try to swing trade chosen stocks, even on sim where the swing or intraday PA on individual stocks always seemed far harder for me to gauge personally than indexes, or index , commodity, and currency futures.

As mentioned, the newer micro index and currency futures could be way to go practicing live while risking much less until you get the hang of things trading futures.


Last edited by Cloudy; August 20th, 2019 at 08:13 PM.
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  #8 (permalink)
Los Angeles, CA /USA
 
Trading Experience: Master
Platform: Sierra, CQG, Gain, Transa
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Wizard3ootz View Post
So, itís probably my third week trading futures (day trading) and sadly, Iím not doing so well. Iíve gotten trapped a lot, with a great deal of false breakouts, making bad decisions, like chasing a breakout, and then putting in a limit order in way too high on the move, and then watching it pull back and getting f******. Mostly, though, itís perhaps overtrading, getting eaten up by commissions, and all of the tiny losses that are accumulating massively.

Iím feeling pretty defeated. I know I need to lower my position sizes. At this point, I had considered walking away, and taking my money off the table (Iím down about 1300)

Donít get me wrong. I have made some beautiful trades. I caught two gorgeous second entries this morning.

That being said, I really need to find some better direction. I was pretty damn successful in my stock trading, and I have never allowed myself to lose this much money in my life. However, Iím getting to the point where something has to change, otherwise, this is clearly a poor investment.

From you experienced/profitable traders out there, if you have any solid advice you might give, please feel free to pass it my way. I study/read about the market probably 25 hours a week, so I am in no way lacking dedication/motivation.


I think the MICROS can be a great product to go through the learning curve and make sure the tuition is not too expensive....what you will know in 3 months is MUCH more than where you at now and you need to make sure you have risk capital to trade with.
Been assisting and observing online clients for over 20 years and wrote this quick one a while ago - very relevant:

. I came up with the following personal observations after serving online traders worldwide for more than 15 years. The following steps are guides to progress, and are not necessarily in sequential order. Some of them are always required, but each trader is different and will relate to these stages in their own ways. While attempting to learn and progress, one must keep in mind that futures trading is risky and can involve significant losses.
1. Education
Hopefully if you are already trading you have completed your initial education: contract specs, trading hours, brokers, platforms, the opportunities as well as the risk and need to use risk capital in futures, and so on. Understanding this information is essential to trading. The second type of education is ongoing: learning about trading techniques, the evolution of markets, different trading tools, and more.
2. Find a System
I am definitely not advising you to go on the web and subscribe to a ďblack boxĒ system (using buy/sell triggers if you don't know why they are being generated). What I am advising is developing a trading technique: a general set of rules and a trading concept. As you progress, you may want to put the different rules and indicators into a computerized system, but the most important factor is to have a focus and a plan. Donít just wake up in the morning and trade ďblank.Ē
3. Survival
This is the key! Do what you need to do in order to survive this brutal business and give yourself the chance of being here down the road with more experience and a better chance of success. Survival is probably the biggest key for beginning traders. There is a saying in this business: ďlive to trade another day.Ē It is so true!
4. Money Management
While it is closely related to survival, money management can also stand alone. For your own survival, you must set trade/daily/weekly loss limits. Sound money

management is closely associated with knowing your risk-reward ratio (again, per trade and per time frame).
5. Goals
You should have a game plan and established goals which will function as a road map to measure your progress and improvement. Set per-trade goals, daily goals, weekly goals, etc. Many of you who are clients are familiar with these questions: What is your daily profit goal? Where do you see yourself in a week from now.? Six months from now? A year from now? How are you planning to get there? Break it down into small steps, and youíll always know whether or not youíre on the right track. And do not forget to continually reevaluate your financial situation as it pertains to risk capital.
6. Experience
If you made it to this stage youíre on the right track! Just like anything else in life, the more experience you have, the greater your success is likely to be. The key is to acquire the experience without devastating your risk capital. What good is experience without risk capital in your trading account?
7. Learn your Setups, Strengths, and Weaknesses
Teach yourself to recognize different set-ups that you feel comfortable and confident with. Then attack. You cannot get to this stage without going through the previous steps. If you did not survive, develop a trading system, set goals, etc., you may recognize the right setups but lack the confidence or the cash to take advantage. I sometimes compare being the ďproĒ to the lion who is waiting patiently for its prey and then attacks when the time is right!
8. Trading on a Consistent Basis
This means you will continue to evolve as a trader and go through these stages over the years again and again.
In Conclusion
Don't be discouraged by reading this. Succeeding in futures trading takes hard work and time.
Please be realistic, make sure you only try this with risk capital only and periodically check yourself and try to learn from your mistakes and successes.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #9 (permalink)
Bangalore
 
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2019
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Wizard3ootz View Post
So, itís probably my third week trading futures (day trading) and sadly, Iím not doing so well. Iíve gotten trapped a lot, with a great deal of false breakouts, making bad decisions, like chasing a breakout, and then putting in a limit order in way too high on the move, and then watching it pull back and getting f******. Mostly, though, itís perhaps overtrading, getting eaten up by commissions, and all of the tiny losses that are accumulating massively.

From you experienced/profitable traders out there, if you have any solid advice you might give, please feel free to pass it my way. I study/read about the market probably 25 hours a week, so I am in no way lacking dedication/motivation.

I'm new to this forum but I've had some headaches with breakouts like you did early on. In my experience there can never be a false breakout, its just that your analysis of the security is incomplete - pattern day traders make this mistake. You have to wait for the liquidity to exhaust itself out before a breakout happens, then the market will try to retest those exhaustion levels which will be your confirmation to enter the trade.

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  #10 (permalink)
Lenox, Ma
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
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Posts: 254 since Dec 2018
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New to Futures, but Hitting the Wall


To echo what other traders have said, lower your size or switch to sim. Test a rule-based strategy- Doesnít have to be an algorithm but just a set of guidelines to follow.

What did you do when you traded stocks that was so successful? Can you adapt that strategy to trading futures?

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