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How do you remain calm while in trade.
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How do you remain calm while in trade.

  #31 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
PARIS, FRANCE
 
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kanepa View Post
Hi all.

What do you do to remain calm and focused when you are in a trade? I am getting better. Running getting stopped out or getting out with profit in my head in detail images with funny music(Think this trick was from NLP) But still, emotionally, I am no where near I would like to be at. I can sense my pulse is going up and emotional changes against each tick movements.

I do know for a fact.
-My previous trades result has nothing to do with current trade.
-I do not have control over the market
-I am comfortable with my risk amount
-I can not get out at top or bottom.
-I believe my system has a good chance of winning over long periods of time.

Knowing all this, still getting emotional..any thoughts?
Thank you.

Hello bro I'm personally using a technique that I had in a book written about the navy seals' self-control techniques.

That's called the 4x4 rule which consists of breathing for 4 seconds and then expiring for 4 seconds. Each second should fill/empty your lungs of around 25% of their capacity.

You should at least do this for two minutes. After that, this turns your body into a completely relaxed state with 100% accuracy. Also, playing the music "Weightless" from Marconi Union has been proved to considerably reduce stress and anxiety.

I strongly advice you to use trading music while trading to relax and avoid stressful states.

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  #32 (permalink)
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FWIW I've heard it called "Box breathing" and understand it as: inhale for four counts, hold for four counts, and then exhale for four counts. I've also seen it in varying ratios, but the hold is typically part of the routine.

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  #33 (permalink)
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kanepa View Post
Hi all.

What do you do to remain calm and focused when you are in a trade? I am getting better. Running getting stopped out or getting out with profit in my head in detail images with funny music(Think this trick was from NLP) But still, emotionally, I am no where near I would like to be at. I can sense my pulse is going up and emotional changes against each tick movements.

I do know for a fact.
-My previous trades result has nothing to do with current trade.
-I do not have control over the market
-I am comfortable with my risk amount
-I can not get out at top or bottom.
-I believe my system has a good chance of winning over long periods of time.

Knowing all this, still getting emotional..any thoughts?
Thank you.



There's a lot of good things listed on this thread.

I try to think about focusing on technicals.

Breathing is good.

I think realizing that you are emotional and knowing it, makes it all good. It's okay to scared or euphoric, just accepting that you are I think is the first step.

I think as you trade more live, and are more successful, things will dissipate. It has for me; my heart rate doesn't go bazillion miles an hour anymore.

Knowing your strategy and your results help ease it too. Not just the percentage of your edge, but your percentage of how you trade it.

If you're on a losing streak, it becomes harder putting on trades and makes it more emotional regarding holding to your targets. If you are on a winning streak, it becomes easier to put on trades, but I know I become more careless and lose track of the technicals. This typically leads to a little bit of loss and then that makes me refocus back on the technicals. This is the cycle I am on now. If you are running into this cycle, go back sim for a couple of days and build back your confidence if you're not feeling up to live trading. Then go back at it again.


I think knowing you're not perfect and you're going to make mistakes is important because there is always room for growth.

Don't try to escape the emotions, just work with them.



Once you see that you can do it, it should all dissipate.

I play this when I trade, it's calming.


"Small disciplines repeated with consistency every day lead to great achievements gained slowly over time."
Checkout my journal
If you would like to learn to trade like me, this is a vendor review I wrote on Toni Hansen.

Last edited by teamtc247; August 9th, 2018 at 07:58 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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To the OP,

Your issue is based on the fact that you had to convince yourself of the outcome before entering the trade. This sets you up for the prospect of being disappointed, which is what brings on the anxiety.

The points you listed are spot on!

Please consider adding a final point

- When I'm wrong I lose less than when I'm right - I haven't a care in the world.

For reference, I trade ES day session on the 5 min price, no indicators, or volume. I trade against the side I believe to be the instantaneous weaker holders. Keeping it simple and stupid is my edge. I feed off the folks that pound desks, slam mice, keyboards and monitors. These are the same folks that constantly violate the point I suggested you add.

Good luck!



kanepa View Post
Hi all.

...

I do know for a fact.
-My previous trades result has nothing to do with current trade.
-I do not have control over the market
-I am comfortable with my risk amount
-I can not get out at top or bottom.
-I believe my system has a good chance of winning over long periods of time.

Knowing all this, still getting emotional..any thoughts?
Thank you.


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  #35 (permalink)
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kanepa View Post
Hi all.

What do you do to remain calm and focused when you are in a trade? I am getting better. Running getting stopped out or getting out with profit in my head in detail images with funny music(Think this trick was from NLP) But still, emotionally, I am no where near I would like to be at. I can sense my pulse is going up and emotional changes against each tick movements.

I do know for a fact.
-My previous trades result has nothing to do with current trade.
-I do not have control over the market
-I am comfortable with my risk amount
-I can not get out at top or bottom.
-I believe my system has a good chance of winning over long periods of time.

Knowing all this, still getting emotional..any thoughts?
Thank you.

I walk away and forget i'm in a trade until one of my alerts or stops are hit

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  #36 (permalink)
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+1 for that book suggestion. Was a big help in my journey.

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  #37 (permalink)
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Batavia NY
 
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The biggest take away from Kahneman IMO should be that your bias and heuristics are in play even when you are aware of them.

For me remaining calm is by getting rid of the concept of tick data for my temperament. I am a shitty poker player because I can't sit for 10 hours and grind doing the same boring thing over and over. I need more stimulus than that. Same way I can't sit for long hours watching tick data fly past without creating stimulus for myself by doing dumb things.

There are so many different strategic options with trading it is crazy to fall in love with ONLY short term trading ES or something like that.

Surely, it is much easier to find a strategy that fits your temperament than it is to change your temperament itself.

At the same time I am much more calm with money on the line now than a decade ago simply from time and the number of trades I have done just from exposure.

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  #38 (permalink)
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Thank you

Many thanks to traders whom have responded and share their tricks and wisdom. I posted this last Feb. So almost a year has been passed and I would like to share what I have learned.

While all the books, psychological tweaks and breathing technique may help, The most important matter was two things.

*Having an edge.

There is no remedy to emotional ups and downs if I did not have an proper edge to trade this market. Discretionary or system trading, an edge that had been back tested more than a decade was a proper start to advance more control over my greed/fear. While hardly I can call my system a success, I am continuing to make a progress as a system trader. If anyone is interested to see my system result, here is link to my journal: https://futures.io/trading-journals/43537-trading-journal-es-s-p-500-futures-contract-system-trading-13.html If I trade a system have negative expectation or method that has not been back tested, my chances to survive this trading game would be slim to none. No amount of knowledge on how to control my emotions will not stop me from busting my account. As we all know, this is not a zero sum game. Commissions and slippage makes a negative sum game for us in retail.

*Time.

Going over many live trades has helped me reduce stress and staying focus. If I wanted to raise my bench press to 315lb, there are many process to train my muscle to be able to lift 315 properly and also it takes long time to achieve that goal. Trading is some what similar. After many stop outs and profit target hits, I began to expand my memory collection of live trading. And as it grow bigger, I could handle trading situations better.

Lastly, even if I found an edge, market can take it away anytime. It already happened to one of my system. I am trading a factual data from the past which may not become a fact in future.

Thank you all,
Kanepa.

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  #39 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Mainz, Germany
 
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As a descretionary trader what helped me is that I always try to focus on acting accordingly to my set of rules. Within this process that leads to opening a position until closing it, I'm trying my best to observe myself if there is any emotional reaction within me, e.g. a rise in heartrate or sweaty hands. All I can do in this moment to regulate my emotions is to reassure me that I made my decisions according to my plan. This is the most important goal, beeing able to stick to a predetermined set of rules. If this is still not possible, leave the desk for a couple of minutes, give your subconscious a signal to learn.

I found out that is not possible to elminate your emotions as you are a human beeing, carrying around a pre-programmed brain with blocks of code written during thousands of years ago. What you CAN do, is to regulate your emotions. And this starts by noticing the upcoming reaction in your body and then to act accordingly. By setting up a routine to stay calm as much as possible once you notice upcoming emotion, the routine will burn into you subconscious and becomes automatic.

Of course an athlete like set of tools like meditation, visualizing yourself as the trader you want yourself to be, routines or working out will also help.

Hope I could help

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  #40 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Niles, Michigan
 
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kanepa View Post
Hi all.

.

I have found personally that trading with real money, over time it just kind of goes away. I am not perfect, but I have improved a lot. Maybe I can help you in some way. I would find myself tensing up REALLY hard, but I perform active emotional management when I am in a trade. I think it is very important you know your plan going into the trade. Know exactly where your stop loss will be, place it, and then place profit targets. Have a plan to know when to set the stop to breakeven as well. Then, once you execute and place stops, sit back. Like literally lean back, actively manage your breathing too. I will say out loud, "I may lose here, but that's okay. It is a part of the strategy. I can't control what happens so I'm just gonna not worry." I'll even open something on a browser to distract me if the trade is choppy/slow moving.

- Another thing I would recommend is having some sort of positive vision with entering a trade. I used to be such a scaredy cat, I was so afraid to enter a trade, and my risk:reward on these trades were fantastic! Then I dealt with the agony of watching the trade go in my favor. So I decided I needed to make my brain think that entering (planned) trades was a good thing! So I thought about my aspirations as a trader. I thought man, I wanna be the wealthy trader that clips 50 S&Ps, but I don't even have the balls to clip 2 on the NQ.

One final word, as this is becoming long-winded. Really ask yourself about your strategy. Are you ACTUALLY confident in it? This was an issue I dealt with a lot when I was a bit newer to futures trading. I felt like I had something there with my strategy but I could tell it was a bit too subjective. After learning a proper trading system, I feel great entering a trade now. Like it is an unbelievable feeling! Being confident in the strategy you employ works wonders on your psyche. Be completely real with yourself and ask yourself some tough questions, I also recommend reading TRADING IN THE ZONE (PDF is free online).

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