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Football and Trading

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  #1 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
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Growing up in Japan... I was a baseball kid at heart. It was the sport all the neighborhood kids would play...
As I came to America, there was a huge shift. Football was now most of my friend's language but I was still tied to a position(the Japanese past).

Although my Dad was a football player back in Japan and is currently a coach for a college..... he was never in my life and never taught me anything regarding it. Although most of my friends were playing football in school....I never cared to ask in understanding the game. I'd watch the games with no knowledge of the game....and considered it boring. There were too many breaks during the game and because I didn't understand it, I didn't like it....(much like looking at a stock chart for the first time with no knowledge of technicals).

Fast forward to a few years ago, I was watching the Seahawks play who was in the hands of a coach Pete Caroll who is known to be an oddball. All of a sudden, I saw what felt like an autonomous game, seem very interesting. The fakes, the unbelievable comebacks, the special teams punter making touchdowns, etc. That's when I became a Seahawks fan and started to learn more about the football game. Then it clicked that football is a lot like trading. It's different from basketball and baseball in which they are more individual based. But football on the other hand.....seemed to mirror a lot about trading for example going for it on 4th down or to be safe and to punt. Risk management....

Maybe it was a coincidence.....but as I started researching more into Seahawks I then became interested in the players. The backgrounds, personalities and studying the quarterbacks was the initial start.....And I started to respect both Russell Wilson and Tom Brady(which I will go into later).....But then I realized these teams were starting to be dominant in the league only after the two coaches Bill Belichick and Pete Caroll came into control.
While Bill is known to be that old grumpy man who is that stern discipline guy who focuses a lot in preparation....Pete really stood out to me. Maybe I was biased because I was a Seahawks fan....but his energy and his freedom he lets players have, I found to be remarkable. Not only that but he also hired a guy named Michael Gervais who helps players in the MENTAL part of football much like trading.

I look at the traits these guys have and they all seem to just help in becoming a better trader.
Anyways this thread will simply be a log of youtube videos from mainly football related things that tie into becoming a better trader.

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  #3 (permalink)
 patrader65 
Boston MA
 
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This is a great topic and I can go on and on about football and trading. There is so much commonality between sports management (NFL in particular) and trading.

A couple of my favorite comparisons:

1. In terms of how prepared traders must be and how things may or may not work out as expected, check out the section from Ermie Adams from 35:00 to 38:00 in the Butler interception:



2. Belichick is famous for letting big name players go, because according to him "he is not collecting talent, but building a team to win".

The analogy for a trader is that your goal is not to catch every possible move, but rather make money in a sustainable way.

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  #4 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
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Pete: Being dedicated to being the best you can figure out how to be. Draws you into having to study, investigate, research, and trial and error your way to figuring out how to help people perform at a really high level. You can't be at your best if you're totally not in the moment and focused and in that point where you have your awareness heightened.

Gervais: One of the beautiful contemplate of training is Who am I? Asking someone who is their philosophy. What is your philosophy? Who are you and how do you guide your life?

Pete: For you to have the chance to be the best you, whatever you're doing, don't you think it would help if you knew exactly what it is that you felt was important to your world...if that you had the collection of the things that you believe in kind of in order, if for no other reason so that you can take that what you understand about yourself..... so one you would know it is a powerful thing.

Gervais: There is no such thing as a "big moment". There is only this moment. This is the only one you get, this one matters as much as anything else.
(Pete: Every moment is huge. Moments are all the same.) You can't be at your best if your not totally in the moment and focused.


Pete: Those things that we do control we're going to master. The things that we can't control we're not even going to mess with it.
The discipline it takes to focus on that which you can control is so much more powerful than spending any time, any focus, any energy on things you can't control.


This video segment is more focused on coaching method. Good to learn how to be a parent or to coach.

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  #5 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
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patrader65 View Post
This is a great topic and I can go on and on about football and trading. There is so much commonality between sports management (NFL in particular) and trading.

A couple of my favorite comparisons:

1. In terms of how prepared traders must be and how things may or may not work out as expected, check out the section from Ermie Adams from 35:00 to 38:00 in the Butler interception:



2. Belichick is famous for letting big name players go, because according to him "he is not collecting talent, but building a team to win".

The analogy for a trader is that your goal is not to catch every possible move, but rather make money in a sustainable way.

Hi patrader,

I'm curious about what more you can share in regards to football and trading as I'm just getting into the comparison. I'm all ears!! Thank you for the few examples you have provided

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  #6 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 50 received



Hes gotta be prepared to be the best player on the team and if hes doing his job to be the absolute best possible competitor on that floor, on that field period he will have a shot.
Your job is to fight, dont complain dont explain.

He was in the office every week. He would show up Friday before a game and sit and prepare himself MENTALLY. Just remember we are talking about a 20yr old guy. This guy was hungry to be the best, he was trainable, coachable, and hungry.

He was the sort of guy that would do whatever it took to please people especially authority figures. So he was easy to work with because his respect for authority was something he capitalized on.

He has mastered his insecurities and his fears in brief moments. He has learned to silence the noise and the clutter in order to focus like a lazerbeam on the task at hand. He was able to wrestle with whatever demons he might have had in pursuit of perfection.

Brady: I would bring a level of competitiveness to practice for myself because if I didnt play well, I didnt think I would be playing on the weekend. So when I come to the Patriots, that's how I treat Wednesday Thursday Friday. You know I was there at practice today and it wasn't the best day of practice you know and I think man I sure hope they are not looking for my replacement after that day of practice and I always wanna feel like I'm the best quarterback for this team, I wanna earn it every single day because I think that's whats going to be best for the team and if you cant preach that message to your teammates, and you think you are entitled to something then your in the wrong business and your going to lose a lot of games. I think you have to get up and earn it every single day.

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  #7 (permalink)
 patrader65 
Boston MA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Here are some analogies:


Football: There is a saying Defensive wins championships. Think about the teams that win or lost the SB due to this...the 2000 Ravens, the Rams- Greatest show on turf etc
Trading: No matter what you do, if you don't play strong defense (keeping losses low), your wins will not make sense and you will not be profitable in the long run.

Football: Considering it as a business. You prepare well and on the field you do your job.
Trading: In some sense, trading is nothing but a business of executing probability trials. You have to treat it that way.

Football: Being adaptable. The best teams always adapt during a game. Think about successful teams making adjustments during half-time
Trading: Depending on the how the day turns, you adapt your trading style. In simple terms, by pullbacks on trending days holding longer and on ranging days, fade extremes for scalps.


Football: You stand the best chance when you eliminate your opponent's strongest weapon. Bill B is known to shut down players.
Trading: You need to understand what your weakness and mistakes are through your journal and aim to eliminate the single biggest mistake that has occurred in the recent past.

Football: Good execution is critical. No matter how much you prepare, how well the coaches prepared a game plan, unless the players executed, you are not going to win.
Trading: Effective execution is often an overlooked aspect. No matter how much you prepare, you need to execute during the session without fear, greed or thinking about your past trades or PNL.

Football: Respect for the opponent. The best teams always respect the opponent, speak highly of them and they prepare the best against them.
Trading: Respect the markets if you want to survive trading.

Football: Ignore the noise (Bill B's motto again). Focus on your preparation and don't engage in stupid talk.
Trading: Stay laser focused on what you need to improve, zero in on one technique and ignore everything else if you want to learn quickly and become profitable.

Football: We're on to the next game. Bill B again. After a game is over, you learn from it and move on. You don't rest on your laurels.
Trading: Every trade is independent of every other trade. Once a trade is over, clear your mental whiteboard and look forward to the next opportunity.

Football: Staying thirty. Once Tom B. was asked about what his favorite SB ring was. His answer, "the next one".
Trading: Stay curious and keep improving. There is always more to learn in the markets.

Football: Getting attached to something. Tom B. was asked who his favorite receiver was. His answer, "the open one".
Trading: Don't get attached to a particular trade or a particular setup. Keep looking for opportunities ahead, be flexible and keep losses small.

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  #8 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
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4:10
"I mean the tape is by far the most important. I mean you want to block to me out everything else and if you dont like what you see on the tape, nothing else matters."

"I mean there is a lot of pressure in this business especially on the quarterback position so how're they going to handle pressure, how they can handle adversity, no matter how good you are everyone's going to tell you how bad you are sometime during the year."

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  #9 (permalink)
thetamax8
Vancouver, BC
 
 
Posts: 25 since Sep 2014
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I was listening to a radio interview with Russell Wilson (QB of the Seahawks) some time ago. One thing that resonated with me was his answer to the question (paraphrasing here) of "Do you get nervous before a big game?"

His answer (again paraphrasing here) was: "There's no need to be nervous because I am prepared"

I found this attitude to be relevant to trading as many new traders (myself included) used to be nervous when a trade was put on. However, there really is no need to be nervous if you entered the trade as a result of thorough preparation. Win or Loss, the preparation should have made you comfortable with the outcome

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  #10 (permalink)
emptymind
San Diego California
 
 
Posts: 129 since Oct 2015
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Marshawn Lynch interview:
"I'm telling you brah, one thing I learned about thinking on the field is you can't do that."
"That moment you start to think, that's the moment you get fucked up."
"On the field there is no thinking. There's reactions and actions to reactions."
"But other then that, thinking.... that take too long."

Very key concept that applies to trading. You should already have your plan ready to go. No need to think, just trade the opportunities the market gives you and just execute what you know. Don't think, don't fear, just trade.

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