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Experience with hypnotherapy?


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Experience with hypnotherapy?

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  #1 (permalink)
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I plan on visiting a local clinical hypnotherapist and wanted to see what experience others had with a hypnotherapist. Have any information to share good or bad? Trading related or otherwise?

Thanks,
Gary

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Why are you doing this?

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Zoethecus View Post
Why are you doing this?

Going to take a wild guess and say he wants to improve his trading and has identified some psychological issues he believes might benefit from it.

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Going to take a wild guess and say he wants to improve his trading and has identified some psychological issues he believes might benefit from it.

Mike

Perhaps you're correct. Let's see what he says.

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  #6 (permalink)
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hi G!

you gotta try it out!
such things can work very good - but not every person is reacting to it somehow.
also it must be the right client / therapist - combination.

its like in trading : one special technique work great for you and another guy isnt able to make 5 bucks with it.

its worth a try, maybe with more than 1 therapist if the first doesnt work somehow.

-

max-td
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Zoethecus View Post
Why are you doing this?

Zoe,

A number of reasons, both trading related and non trading related.

Explore possibilities like fear of success, self sabotage, etc.

Also, looking for more tools to help keep a relaxed, clear mind AKA getting in "the zone".

Possibly to help discover other things which may be subconsciously holding me back.

I am currently reading "Evolve Your Brain" and it has me thinking of a number of ideas/thoughts on this type of stuff.

Gary

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I say read The Secret, it is not magic, it just forces your subcontious to always to be looking to satisify your goals.

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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It's funny how different people react to this suggestion.

Even one year ago I would probably react negatively. But now I've learned so much more about how the brain works, and the psychological impact it has on our everyday lives, in particular of course trading.

So knowing what I know now, I am actually very interested in hearing what people have to say on this -- people that have made the effort and have got this far in their journey to realize they could benefit from this type of assistance.

I agree with what Max said, it takes the right person to be in the right state of mind, or in the right part of their journey, to even be able to try this. Then, it also takes the right therapist on the other end (a competent one, good at their job), but I think it could be an extremely useful combination. So I am looking forward to this thread, am hoping several have tried this.

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I also want to add I strongly believe in the power of the subconscious mind and how for example, things can affect us for years and years, and we aren't consciously aware of them. These can be both positive and negative. I am sure many of you can see things happen in your trading career which have you asking yourself, why did I do that? Were you able to confidently determine the answer to that question? Then, why did you do it again, and again, and again?

I have watched a number of interesting videos on people speaking about self-sabotage, and how some believe it is a self-protection mechanism to help you rid yourself of stress, by returning to you the place you were more comfortable. This could be for people who are consistently making money or not. One gave an example of a person losing money by not following their rules, yet, they do it over and over. Why? They are under stress as most traders are in the beginning, and their brain is looking for a way to end that stressful situation. How? By losing all of their money so they can no longer trade. Interesting perspective and just one example of self-sabotage. You could also see this with people who win the lottery. They are unable to handle it, and self sabotage their way back to the same financial condition they were before they won.

Are you able to trade all day/every day without anxiety? If yes, then you are a step ahead of me in this sense.

I am going to approach the hypnotherapy session with an open mind, and a belief I will gain something the session. How much and how soon? I don't know the answer to that, but believe it has great potential.

Gary

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Something you may want to listen to ....

This is very interesting.... Everytime I listened to it, (part B), I felt to sleep like a rock



Lio

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Register to download File Type: zip Paul McKenna - Hypnosis Tape - A - Supreme Self Confidence.zip (31.37 MB, 225 views)
Register to download File Type: zip Paul McKenna - Hypnosis Tape - B - Supreme Self Confidence.zip (21.76 MB, 194 views)
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Gary View Post
I plan on visiting a local clinical hypnotherapist and wanted to see what experience others had with a hypnotherapist. Have any information to share good or bad? Trading related or otherwise?

Thanks,
Gary

Gary,

You don't need no hypnotherapy clinic. You need FAITH CLINIC - you are created to be free from any form of infirmity. So, SLEEP well - if you miss some hours of sleep, make it back to the extent that you have at least 5-6 hours of sleep within 24 hours (which is usually a day); DO PHYSICAL EXERCISE; BE SPIRITUAL, etc (see "Physiology and Psychology" in the first post of my thread here).

IT IS WELL WITH YOU !!!!!!!!!

Lolu

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Hypnotherapy is rigth for some issue, like quit smoking, but for other thinks there are many better therapy options.

Luke.

P.s. Meditation is a good option for calmness, focusing, etc...........

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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I believe if you believe it will help, then it probably will.

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vegasfoster View Post
I believe if you believe it will help, then it probably will.


I completely agree with you in half......ahahahhaha

Luke.

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Luke.
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I am not reactive to hypnotherapy and would not consider trying it for myself. But I know some persons who are.

The main challenge I face are my own (self-learned) behavioural patterns. Some are me serving well and others are not. Behavioural patterns that are incompatible with my (financial) goals are deeply anchored in my subconscious and I have to unlearn them step by step. I do not believe that unlearning those can be done via hypnotherapy, but I think that unlearning is hard work, which involves

- daily goals
- physical exercise and training
- self-monitoring
- try and error
- keeping a trading journal
- repeat successful experience
- if need look for a qualified mentor (did not try this)

Trading requires a high degree of discipline and little creativity. A bit of dumbness actually helps . Creativity destabilizes profitability.

So need to unlearn unprofitable habits, need to form new instincts that adapt to the counterintuitive way of trading.

My personal enemies are

- loss aversion (not taking my losses early, might go back into profits)
- scaling out too early and without reason (not letting my profits run)
- not adding to my winners (also driven by loss aversion)
- violating my own rules, when catching the wrong one of two conflicting signals
- lack of patience and easily being distracted (the cat needs to wait for the bird to come close enough that the odds are in her favor, but neighbours dog might let her forget that she is hungry)

Trading is a game with a negative expectancy, it is a loser's game. The losses do not come regularly, but irregularly, this is the vicious property of fat tails. One day can destroy it all.

The best books I have read on trading psychology are those of Brett Steenbarger and Mark Douglas. I am reading them again from time to time to dig this into my mind.

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I have experience with NLP and Hypnotherapy they work pretty good IMO. Like trading you have to find what works for you. I like Bandler's books since he co founded NLP. You can even make your own programs with Neuroprogammer 3 its pretty neat.

Most believe, except Denise Shull, you are what you think and believe. Not to disparage her at all. I went to hypnotherapist as a young adult because I had a tough time as kid in dysfunctional family. It helped a lot. The therapist created a special tape for me, but because I have/had some self sabotage behaviors I quit listening after a couple of months.

Later I bought some tapes from Marshall Sylver, they are great, you can find them on Ebay cheap, his mentoring he got in trouble with though, but tapes are good value.

Here is something important to realize. Some ppl are easier to hypnotize than others. Those that are more open to suggestions.

I have also used Trading Mind software its pretty good but she uses not and no in recordings which I have been told is a no no in programming the mind.

One of the reasons I checked out Kam and L2ST is he is an NLP guy and focuses alot on psych issues. He recommended Ari Kiev, The Pysch of Risk, RIP, whom was a trading coach for Stevie Cohen of SAC.

Hope it helps.

P.S. Before I ever did any hypnotherapy I watched Marshall's stage act 20 years ago. He had ppl doing the most crazy things and they weren't staged because my friend was one of the guppies. Hypnosis works, better for some than others.

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Gary View Post
I also want to add I strongly believe in the power of the subconscious mind and how for example, things can affect us for years and years, and we aren't consciously aware of them. These can be both positive and negative. I am sure many of you can see things happen in your trading career which have you asking yourself, why did I do that? Were you able to confidently determine the answer to that question? Then, why did you do it again, and again, and again?

I have watched a number of interesting videos on people speaking about self-sabotage, and how some believe it is a self-protection mechanism to help you rid yourself of stress, by returning to you the place you were more comfortable. This could be for people who are consistently making money or not. One gave an example of a person losing money by not following their rules, yet, they do it over and over. Why? They are under stress as most traders are in the beginning, and their brain is looking for a way to end that stressful situation. How? By losing all of their money so they can no longer trade. Interesting perspective and just one example of self-sabotage. You could also see this with people who win the lottery. They are unable to handle it, and self sabotage their way back to the same financial condition they were before they won.

Are you able to trade all day/every day without anxiety? If yes, then you are a step ahead of me in this sense.

I am going to approach the hypnotherapy session with an open mind, and a belief I will gain something the session. How much and how soon? I don't know the answer to that, but believe it has great potential.

Gary

Its funny, I have experienced this very thing.....my brain doing self sabotage to myself to bring an unpleasent situation to an end. Even though I wanted fix the situation for the better, I found myself doing the exact opposite of what would have been beneficial and sure enough, the situation ended badly but I was out of it. I was even aware at the time it was happening but I guess i wanted out so bad I was willing to risk everything to get out. Looking back, i could have fixed it but the effort was to great, i was not prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to do so and my brain knew that.

I see in trading too but I want this very badly and my brain is working on ways to make it happen. I can feel and sense it.

I am a person of faith. Not perfect of course, but striving. My faith has many many many things to say about how a person thinks. That thinking is the keystone to mastery in life. How a person thinks determines how they act and how they act determines the failure or success they experience in life. So proper thinking will lead to success.

This is a universal principal and not limited to my brand of faith, thats why it works universally and why some of the most ancient religious texts are full of profound words of wisdom regarding right thinking......

Keep it going Gary, i think you will find what you are looking for.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #19 (permalink)
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Thank you to everyone who replied. I look forward to my session tomorrow, and will let anyone who is interested know how it goes.

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Aklio

Thank you for your tape today. It was great to listen to it today since I did not have very good morning today. I got righ to the second tape and with in 2 min I found my mind wondering around a bit. I got relaxed and to the end I come out actually relaxed. I do not know if this is going to help my trading, but my first exprience so far is very good. Once more thank you for the post. People you should try this.

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I know and believe hypnosis works. In fact, as a teenage, a parlor room hypnotist got me to lose lots of weight.
I was thinking of doing this too providing i could find someone i would be comfortable with. Then i would become a very successful trader and maintain good weight too.
Hope you find the right guy who is also reasonable. Do go for it and let us know

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TickVix

I've found that on the net, I don't even remember where...

Happy you like it ... not sure if it really work on confidence, but it's interesting to listen to...
at least it can make you relax, drug free

see ya

Lio

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Gary, although this wasn't your intent, I thank you for giving the community yet another reason to auto-trade a system with a positive expectancy and shed the stress (and failure) that goes with discretionary trading .

No hypnotists, gurus, self help books or late night infomercial NLP CD sellers needed.

Here's wishing you all the best.

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Zoethecus View Post
Gary, although this wasn't your intent, I thank you for giving the community yet another reason to auto-trade a system with a positive expectancy and shed the stress (and failure) that goes with discretionary trading .

No hypnotists, gurus, self help books or late night infomercial NLP CD sellers needed.

Here's wishing you all the best.

Zoe,

If you have an automated trade system working consistently for a decent period of time, more power to you! - I didn't spend much time with the automation aspect, but I couldn't seem to get everything that goes into my discretionary trading into a automated strategy, even though I am only using a single MA, support/resistance, and range bars to make the majority of my decisions. I am thankful and happy for where I am in my trading career; just looking to take it to the next level, and believe at this point in my trading career, it is 99% psychological.

You seem to believe there is no such thing as profitable discretionary trading, and I beg to differ. You can visit my blog to see my results for the last 3 months, since I started my online public blog. And, while I am no where near the level of many profitable traders, I have been able to make a decent living while most days, only trading a few hours in the morning. This allows me the freedom to spend time with my family; something which is more valuable than anything else to me. For me the focus is not on the money, but on what the money gives me, more time to do the things I want to do. My discretionary trading system gives me exactly that. There are also other discretionary traders out there who post results publicly. (Protrader Ed is one who comes to mind)

I am not knocking automated trading strategies. Again, if you have one which does what you need it to do, and is consistently profitable, with a draw down you and your account can handle, that is great! I spent some time working with Big Mike on a number of automated strategies, and I guess we weren't good enough to find one like you apparently have found/created.

Keep in mind, my belief is the with some of the self help books, gurus, hypnotherapy, NLP, etc; I can benefit far more than just in the trading aspect of my life. And, because of that belief, I have, and will benefit from these types of things. If you do not believe they will work for you, then they won't. I easily get back more than I give when it comes to spending time on these things.

One last question, do you have or have you shared the results or the details on your automated trading system? If yes, please share the link where I can see more. It is always encouraging to see a system which is working, and I can always stand to learn more in areas like this. I still have a decent bit of 'down time' until the kids are out of school every day where I can spare a little time to 'edumacate' myself. I have been loosely following the thread on Hurley automated, but it seems this very much still in the 'beta' phase unless I am reading incorrectly.

Thank you for the best wishes. I hope you have a great weekend as well and wish you continued success with your automated trading system.

Gary

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Gary,

The bottom line is really simple. The only thing that really matters at the end of the day is what works for YOU. If Zoe is successful in automation, more power to him (although why is he replying to this thread?). If you are successful in discretionary trading and feel you can improve your trading with the aid of hypnotherapy, more power to you for doing so.

Since Zoe did bring up automation -- in my experience, of which I have quite a bit , traders tend to run to automation as a cure for their shortcomings as a discretionary trader. I've been there, done that. I've seen it over and over in others, too. For me personally, I feel fortunate I broke the cycle and returned to being a discretionary trader. All the time and energy I was spending on the never ending tweaking of settings and indicator values, and optimizations... it hurts to think about. Naturally, the only thing that really matters at the end of the day is what works for YOU. For me, automation was almost like an addiction. I was consumed by it, having so many systems, so many indicators, tweaking settings, using four computers to backtest on, etc. Ridiculous. I'm not Goldman Sachs. To make things worse I was using NinjaTrader, so the results were pretty worthless anyway. One day I woke up. It was like deciding to quit drugs and then committing to it with all your energy. It felt good to move on. I feel like automation is a short-cut for many. There are no short-cuts in trading.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get off topic by responding to Zoe...

I feel like you are 100% doing the right thing, and in fact I am very interested in doing it myself. I am not a perfect trader, such a thing doesn't exist. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I know what causes my heart rate to elevate and when I tend to make stupid decisions. While I try to overcome these obstacles on my own through mental training and discipline and experience, I welcome having a professional help me.

In my eyes, a hypnotherapist is just like a personal fitness trainer. One is for your mind, one is for your body. Trading is not about brute force. More is not better. That is why I think so much of what determines profitability is directly controlled from within your mind, and happens without you consciously making decisions.

Anyway, I'm rambling and quite tired. I should have gone to bed already I hope you'll share your experience and your journey with the hypnotherapy.

Mike

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  #26 (permalink)
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I havent personally tried hypnotherapy but have witnessed someone that quit smoking after being hypnotised . They smoked like a chimney for years , tried various treatments without success , then went under hypnosis and havent smoked in 3 years . They claim that they dont even have urges anymore but I suspect that hypnosis combined with a building will to quit did the trick for them .

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If this is true, hypnosis is extremely dangerous. Imagine that your hypnotherapist abuses her powers on you and after hypnosis you are the only vegetarian member of the Ku Klux Klan.



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I havent personally tried hypnotherapy but have witnessed someone that quit smoking after being hypnotised . They smoked like a chimney for years , tried various treatments without success , then went under hypnosis and havent smoked in 3 years . They claim that they dont even have urges anymore but I suspect that hypnosis combined with a building will to quit did the trick for them .


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If this is true, hypnosis is extremely dangerous. Imagine that your hypnotherapist abuses her powers on you and after hypnosis you are the only vegetarian member of the Ku Klux Klan.

I don't agree with that.

I think hypnosis is only going to work when it is already in the right general direction of what you are trying to accomplish. I don't think a hypnotist can tell you to go walk in front of a train whenever you really, really don't want to do that. Besides, from what I understand, you are fully awake and can stop the session at any time. Their job is to get you mentally prepared and focused, and to do so they help get you into a calm and relaxed state. You aren't "under".

I've been reading Mark Douglas Trading in the Zone. He uses this example about a million times (too much in fact) about how a boy gets bitten by a dog. Then he grows up fearing that ALL dogs are dangerous.

Let's say that the boy is now a man. He knows all dogs are indeed not dangerous, but yet he is unable to get his body to do what he wants -- which is to go interact with a dog. He is overcome by fear, traumatized by what happened to him as a child.

I believe hypnosis in this example is similar to what Gary is trying to accomplish. Gary knows what he wants to do in certain situations in trades. But he's found that sometimes his subconscious overpowers his will or desire and he makes decisions he doesn't really want to make.

If a hypnotist comes in and works with the man (who was the boy) afraid of dogs, I think that could be the extra help the man needs to reach out and finally interact with a dog. Same is true for Gary. Once your mind builds these new connections, you will begin to disassociate the bad feelings that existed previously that caused you to react negatively to the situation, even though in your conscious mind you were trying to do the right thing.

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If this is true, hypnosis is extremely dangerous. Imagine that your hypnotherapist abuses her powers on you and after hypnosis you are the only vegetarian member of the Ku Klux Klan.

I'm not an expert, but have done some hypnosis session with friends, when I was younger, during parties, just for fun, and in fact you can't force someone to do what he's really don't want to do.
And it's not dangerous, sometimes I found the guys was a bit hard to get out this hypnosis state, but I've always been able to let them get back to a normal state, 100% awake.
I've hear about one case, a guy has done self-hypnosis, and didn't get back to a normal state, and it has been very hard to get awake, but I don't know if it's a true story.
When I was using self-hypnosis, I didn't have any problem like this.

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When I was younger, I tried some sort of meditation, but I do not understand what is self-hypnotization, and how it is different from meditation.

Actually I am sort of seeing a guy sitting in front of a mirror redirecting his energy towards himself until he is hypnotized.... sorry for this picture.


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When I was using self-hypnosis, I didn't have any problem like this.


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Gary View Post
Zoe,


One last question, do you have or have you shared the results or the details on your automated trading system? If yes, please share the link where I can see more.

Thank you for the best wishes. I hope you have a great weekend as well and wish you continued success with your automated trading system.

Gary

Gary, with respect to your last question the answer is no. Not at all dissimilar from your initial remarks in the Gary's CL Method thread: "I would like to start with a simple statement of the primary idea of this post is to help me. Yes, I said me."

I hope you, too, have a great weekend and find what you seek in trading and life.

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I used self hypnosis for 3 years go get through law school. I work full time and went to school at night. I wrote out a schedule and set of rules for every hour, every day for each semister and before I went to sleep each night went over the rules. It took about a year to really be programed but I passed the bar the first time and was totally relaxed while taking it. Mike's formula for making rules and a log follows right in line with such programming.
I say go for it but don't expect overnight success. It takes some time to develop the right habits.
al

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Fat Tails View Post
When I was younger, I tried some sort of meditation, but I do not understand what is self-hypnotization, and how it is different from meditation.

Take 5 minutes and read both Wikipedia definitions, it's very different.


Quoting 
Actually I am sort of seeing a guy sitting in front of a mirror redirecting his energy towards himself until he is hypnotized.... sorry for this picture.

Hmm, watching a candle (a real physical candle, not our chart candles ) light is easier than using a mirror (in my case), and their is no "energy" involved in the process.

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Gary, with respect to your last question the answer is no. Not at all dissimilar from your initial remarks in the Gary's CL Method thread: "I would like to start with a simple statement of the primary idea of this post is to help me. Yes, I said me."

I hope you, too, have a great weekend and find what you seek in trading and life.

Hey Zoe,

I can respect that. The difference being I went on to describe in detail my system, and how it works as well as numerous trade examples in detail with information on why I entered and exited. I replied to numerous PMs, started my public blog, etc. Yes, the primary reason was to help me, but the 'icing on the cake' ended up being me helping many others in various ways. Something to consider for yourself.

I still want to believe that the fact you are taking the time to read this thread, part of you believes you are lacking in one or more areas in some way, and could potentially benefit from something like Hypnotherapy. The real question you should ask is, what could it hurt?

Gary

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Gary, have you had the session yet? If so how was it?

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Gary View Post
Hey Zoe,

I still want to believe that the fact you are taking the time to read this thread, part of you believes you are lacking in one or more areas in some way, and could potentially benefit from something like Hypnotherapy. The real question you should ask is, what could it hurt?

Gary

You can believe whatever you wish, but the fact is I'm reading this thread because it's a diversion from most of the other stuff in the forum and I'm bored.

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Ruth barrons roosevelt is a pychology coach and trader -- her books are excellent for helping you to remove bad habitual thinking or help identify some of the traits holding you back

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Hypnosis works!!!

And it works in two ways.

1:
It works in order to get rid of so called junk material in ones subconscious. Remember the mind is only creative, and it only knows how to make one's future based on one's past. There should also be mentioned that our human brain is the most illogical and irrational thing we own. It lacks anything that has to do with logic, and it bases all it's work on perception.

With the help of hypnosis, we get the necessary changes in order to "remould" our future based on our "new past".

and...


2:
It works in order to get yourself a desired input by programing one's subconscious.


NOW!
In order to get hypnosis to work, one has to have the right mental attitude. There are normally four mental attitudes counted. Here they are:
(the process of hypnosis is based on suggestions given by the hypnotherapist)


# 1
"I like that suggestion. I know it's going to work for me!"
# 2
"I don't know; it sounds a little uncomfortable to me. It just doesn't fit me."
#3
"I'm neutral about it. I don't care if I get it or don't get it."
# 4
"I like that suggestion. I hope it works!"


ONLY ONE WORKS! Guess which one?!

Now you do the math, and ask yourselves if hypnosis is something dangerous, or if it is something very powerful, that is very much controlled by you and no one else!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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George, you forgot to mention one:

#5
"I don't like it and I am quite sure that it won't work"

And the point is that I would not like and would not want to permit a hypnotherapist, whom I do not know to dig into my subconscious and manipulate it. This would be a question of faith, and I wouldn't trust a stranger to that point.

To establish faith, it takes time, a long standing relationship or friendship would be a prerequisite to undergo hypnotherapy, the hypnotherapist next corner would possibly only hear some bad jokes, and as we know humour is just one of the ways of negation.

So I have to find a different way to unlearn/unwind my bad habits, maybe stop posting here, as it is sort of a distraction?



George View Post
# 1
"I like that suggestion. I know it's going to work for me!"
# 2
"I don't know; it sounds a little uncomfortable to me. It just doesn't fit me."
#3
"I'm neutral about it. I don't care if I get it or don't get it."
# 4
"I like that suggestion. I hope it works!"


ONLY ONE WORKS! Guess which one?!

Now you do the math, and ask yourselves if hypnosis is something dangerous, or if it is something very powerful, that is very much controlled by you and no one else!


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rassi View Post
Gary, have you had the session yet? If so how was it?

Hey Rassi/All,

Yes, I had the session last Friday morning. It went pretty well as expected.

We spoke for a good 90 minutes about various subjects helping her to understand what it was I was looking for help with, get exact terminology, etc. I then went thru various stages of relaxation, and then mental imagery, and finally a mental picture of me in my office trading, in as much detail as possible. While the last was happening, I could hear the voice of the hypnotherapist using positive words and phrases, and reminding me how to breathe to stay as relaxed as possible. I was aware of what she was saying the entire time, and could have "awaken" at any time if I really felt the need.

It was nothing magical or spiritual in any way, simply a reminder to me that I need to stay positive at all times (for trading and otherwise), use whatever technique works for me to stay relaxed the entire time while trading (mine happens to be deep breathing), and reinforced my belief in mental imagery / practicing various situations in your head to help you stay relaxed and calm, which will allow you to make the best decisions without other factors, like unnecessary fears or anxieties getting in the way. I think the key is getting details from the mental pictures, textures, smells, colors, etc.

I probably won't see the hypnotherapist again, but feel I got my money's worth from the visit, and have a number of things to work on by myself.

Gary

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Gary View Post
Hey Rassi/All,

Yes, I had the session last Friday morning. It went pretty well as expected.

We spoke for a good 90 minutes about various subjects helping her to understand what it was I was looking for help with, get exact terminology, etc. I then went thru various stages of relaxation, and then mental imagery, and finally a mental picture of me in my office trading, in as much detail as possible. While the last was happening, I could hear the voice of the hypnotherapist using positive words and phrases, and reminding me how to breathe to stay as relaxed as possible. I was aware of what she was saying the entire time, and could have "awaken" at any time if I really felt the need.

It was nothing magical or spiritual in any way, simply a reminder to me that I need to stay positive at all times (for trading and otherwise), use whatever technique works for me to stay relaxed the entire time while trading (mine happens to be deep breathing), and reinforced my belief in mental imagery / practicing various situations in your head to help you stay relaxed and calm, which will allow you to make the best decisions without other factors, like unnecessary fears or anxieties getting in the way. I think the key is getting details from the mental pictures, textures, smells, colors, etc.

I probably won't see the hypnotherapist again, but feel I got my money's worth from the visit, and have a number of things to work on by myself.

Gary

So she didnt look back into your past and try to figure out any unresolved issues you may have that are holding you back?

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rassi View Post
So she didnt look back into your past and try to figure out any unresolved issues you may have that are holding you back?

Rassi,

No, we didn't go that far. The total session lasted about 2 1/2 hours, and I feel that doing that would have taken another session entirely. The hypnotherapist mentioned she will call this week and offer support/help in any way possible over the phone or in person. The price she charged was very reasonable, and she seems very sincere. I may decide at some point in the near future to do another visit, but as of today, I will not be scheduling my next appointment.

Gary

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Thanks Gary,

Very interesting, this is something i have thought about often and am sure at some point i will pursue it so i will update here when i do!

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Hi all,
Most of us accumulate a lot of subconcious "baggage" over our lives that makes us act the way we do.

In my opinion, the thing that impacts trading the most is our "fear of easy money". Our subconcious is programmed from early in life that we must work hard for our money, and not take too many risks. The we start trading and it seems easy. We make a few easy dollars and then the self sabotage starts. Or maybe the opposite occurs and your capital takes a hit. Once again Mr Self Sabotage comes to the fore. We find ourselves looking for excuses (indicators, poor entry timing, etc, etc).

Unfortunately our friends and family often don't help. They like us the way we are now. So what kind of advice do you think they will give you?

Will hypnosis help? I believe it will, especially if the focus is on changing the key subconscious beliefs.

Meggs

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can uyou give us some idea of the costs involved in hypnosis therapy ? Thanks

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larry10009 View Post
can uyou give us some idea of the costs involved in hypnosis therapy ? Thanks

Larry,

I spoke with a few different places and did some research, and I think you should expect to pay somewhere around $50-$100 an hour for a clinical hypnotherapist.

Gary

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Meggs View Post
Hi all,
Most of us accumulate a lot of subconcious "baggage" over our lives that makes us act the way we do.

In my opinion, the thing that impacts trading the most is our "fear of easy money". Our subconcious is programmed from early in life that we must work hard for our money, and not take too many risks. The we start trading and it seems easy. We make a few easy dollars and then the self sabotage starts. Or maybe the opposite occurs and your capital takes a hit. Once again Mr Self Sabotage comes to the fore. We find ourselves looking for excuses (indicators, poor entry timing, etc, etc).

Unfortunately our friends and family often don't help. They like us the way we are now. So what kind of advice do you think they will give you?

Will hypnosis help? I believe it will, especially if the focus is on changing the key subconscious beliefs.

Meggs

Meggs,

I agree with much of what you are saying here. But... What you need to do is remind yourself, it is not "easy money"; at least not after you have been trading for a good amount of time. The amount of energy, work, pain, etc, is a great cost, and is thus not "easy". You will have earned that so called easy money after much cost.

Gary

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if you guys need a good handbook for suggestions and metaphors look here:



you can adapt to trading some scripts

best regards

trading for me is a waste product has become since I am working with me. you learn to focus and you can suggest anything you want.

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.
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Hypnosis is like taking the fast lane, in order to achieve changes fast.

Imagine it this way!

What does it take to view charts on your computer?!
A charting application right?! You need the software in order to be able to get charts!
Are you able to get charts if you lack the software?
The correct answer is NO!

Now, what happens if your software gets corrupted (i.e. virus)?
The results and the effect is bad! Right?

The mind works exactly the same!
In order to make it do something for you, you have to have the software!
If you have the software, but it is infected, then the result is bad!

Hypnosis goes into your hard drive and it is able to do two things:

1: Put in the desired software, and/or
2: Free you of the virus.

It is important to take notice of one thing here. If you go to a hypnotist and ask to get a new software, but you happen to have a "virus" in your subconscious mind. Then the new input will still be overlapped by the "virus"!

That's why it is very important to go to a good hypnotist. Normally they should be able to give you the right option, and notice what's needed.


Here's a link to a very professional hypnotic method. He's a student of Gerald Kein (Gerald Kein, a living legend):

USA - Browse Locations - Find a Hypnotist or Hypnotherapist - Hypnosis-Directory.com

(these are the locations for the USA) and these are world wide:

Browse Locations - Find a Hypnotist or Hypnotherapist - Hypnosis-Directory.com

And here is the home page:

Hypnosis Training, NGH Certification, Advanced Hypnotherapy Training - Orange County, California & Singapore - Banyan Hypnosis Center for Training & Services, Inc.

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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I found this website, its quite the sales page but I think there may be value here. I've not bought it yet but probably will at some point.

Just for information.

Subconscious Training Corporation

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


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One of the trading room I took a trial from the guy is a certified NLP practitioner. He said he uses the Sirius Light and Sound Machine for mental programming. I am considering getting one, there are sellers on amazon that offer 30 day return and its $100 not bad. Its brainwave entrainment. Right now I am just listening to Neuroprogrammer and some hypnosis tapes. It helps I took a big look before lunch break and I was able to get myself back to B/E after I calmed my nerves.

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earlyriser,

I've heard of those before, if you get one be sure to report back.

Mike

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I read this book...

Psycho-Cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. He was a plastic surgeon and wrote this in the 60's.

To anyone who thinks the subconscious does NOT control the conscious, you are missing out on why some people excell and others 'get it'.

For years, most of my life, I suffered from self sabotoge. I never understood it until I read this book.

My entire outlook on life has changed. My trading has improved as well.

Read it. Or don't.

You will become what you think. Before you do something, you must first visualize yourself doing it.

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Gary View Post
I plan on visiting a local clinical hypnotherapist and wanted to see what experience others had with a hypnotherapist. Have any information to share good or bad? Trading related or otherwise?

Thanks,
Gary


Gary,

I tried some hypnotherapy for trading and non trading issues. In conjunction with the hypnotherapy the therapist first performed a number of sessions of NET (Nuro emotional technique). This is not to be confused with EFT (emotional freedom technique). I can't say I really understand it, or if it really works or not. I did experience some sense of relief during the NET sessions, but I think many of the issues that humans face are like the layers of an onion. There can be many, so addressing one issue may not get you to where you want to be because there are other layers of the onion or links in the chain that still need to be broken, so a number of sessions may be needed. I hope that makes sense. When I had the Hypnotherapy session it was recorded to CD so I could play it over and over. I think it is something where repetition is needed. I always wondered why a hypnotherapist on a talk show could make someone bark like a dog, but they can't make me a super trader in one session. Just kidding. Well, not really.

I think any self improvement steps are just that, steps. I think its a long journey to changer ourselves. We want results now, but in reality its the consistent chipping away that ultimately brings the change. When I was younger I tried hypnotherapy for the first time for a non trading reason. I was hoping and looking for instant results and It didn't work that way. At least not for me. At the time I was doing other things as well such as reading self improvement books like Unlimited Power by Tony Robbins or listening to cassette (yes, cassette) tapes by others to improve myself. I even went to a Tony Robbins seminar and did a small fire walk. This is over 20 years ago when I did that. I'm not fanatical about any of it and never continued to be a follower for lack of a better word and maybe to my own detriment because even though I think I've made self improvement in myself over the last 20+ years, I realize that there are still things that need addressing by the lack of success in trading even after hypnotherapy and NET.

David

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I plan on visiting a local clinical hypnotherapist and wanted to see what experience others had with a hypnotherapist. Have any information to share good or bad? Trading related or otherwise?

Thanks,
Gary


Hi Gary,
I tried hypnotherapy - ok, actually all 3 of the tools that George had highly recommended: hypnotherapy, Sedona Method and ETF. At least, without going back to the thread, those are the 3 that I recall he most highly recommended (thanks, George)...

And, I agree with whoever made the statement that making an effort and taking steps at self improvement is something that takes time, but it's the small steps that get a person off the trajectory that they're on -- and onto something new.

I do notice that I trust myself more -- or if I'm wrong, that's it's less of an issue, just part of the overall journey. And, the confidence is helpful for sure with staying with trading and focusing more on the objective stuff that I can change and less on beating myself up when I'm wrong.

The ETF is turning into a bigger part of my approach, as I can access free stuff on youtube. smile

Thanks for the topic.
goldilocks

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People...you describing Hypnotherapy as a one piece event...it is not...there is good, bad and ugly hypnotists...there is timing involved...what you had for a breakfast and so on...Let me tell you a story...For 3 decades I practiced Drawing with no noticeable improvements...until I went with my 2 little nephews to the movies...as we were watching it...one thing caught my eye...a strange momentum behavior of one of the actors...I completely forgot all about it...and a few weeks later it came back to my mind...so..before placing a first stroke on the paper..I repeated that momentum move.............I am drawing as a professional since then...Improvements in my technique came naturally and fast...I believe in NLP..HaHaHa...they call it Modeling...the thing that I did...Good luck...anyways...you can't hurry love you just have to wait...til the right moment...and then go all in...ATTACK...

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Pava View Post
People...you describing Hypnotherapy as a one piece event...it is not...there is good, bad and ugly hypnotists....


I didn't think this was a completely fair statement, but I do see how it could appear that way to you, as no other information was there to read it differently.

For some who have many years' experience meditating and have set up imagery that they refer back to each time, it was my experience that the hypnosis experience tapped into what I already had in place and just built some new imagery on top.

So, while I agree with you that a "one time" event of hypnotherapy probably can be a drop in the bucket, if you add in years of meditation and some focused time with one of the good (of the bad and ugly), then the experience might be deeper.

And, someone who doesn't even have years practice meditating might do a repeated practice using what the hypnosis session brought --- to again, in my opinion, make it much more than a one-time event.

Great point though. Thanks.

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Hey guys, whatever helps you from not overtrading :-)

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Interesting approach you have got guys!

I guess, that hypnosis is as trading, it can either get up, down or stay still.
But honestly, would it be fair to say that it works different on different people?
Well, it depends on who you're asking!

Because it's a sort of out of the ordinary thing we're dealing with, it is indeed up to the giver and the taker to judge the impact and the outcome!

I do not proclaim myself as an expert in the field, but I can say that we as human beings are very much subjective in our way of perceiving things. And in a particular way, that is very odd indeed, this subjcetivity is supposed to serve us somehow!

Don't ask me how, and why, as I'm yet to find out the answer myself. But I can give you some wild guesses.

I believe it has to do with evolution somehow. And by that I mean that if we were to be learning without experiencing, then the essence of evolution would become invalid. We kind of need this sort of duality in order to evolve. Simply said, in order to get to gray, first you have to learn what white looks and feels like, after that you'd be going to black, and by now the mixture is something natural.

The odd thing about life itself is that duality creates a sort of ease and pain, focus and non focus. It's never gray and it never becomes gray, by duality itself!

Nevertheless we need both white and black in order to create gray!

But remember that by the time you've got to gray, you'll be having a totally different perspective, because it's neither white nor black. So gray is gray, as long as you understand that it is a totally different color, and it actually has nothing to do with black or white. It is only our perception and the love of the past that leads us again back into subjectivity!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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I went to a certified hypnotherapist in August 2009, after a couple of months trying EFT with a facilitator. It went pretty much the same as Gary described, a lengthy discussion about my trading problems and worries. Then, while sitting in an extremely comfortable chair, I was led into an extremely relaxed state. Then, through visualization, I took my worries out of a very heavy backpack and each worry was identified as I did so. This is where I have a warning. I'll get to it in a minute. Each problem sank to the bottom of a lake and then there were all these new things I was supposed to be thinking about. Again, each behavior was specified. This is the benefit of going to a hypnotherapist, rather than having a pre-made recording. (I have bunch of those too, by the way).

You're awake the whole time, just really, really relaxed. Posters who are concerned about becoming ax-murderers are way, way off. You can remember everything that was said. As someone mentioned, it's not a one-time thing. My hypnotherapist made a CD recording and you're supposed to play it every day for at least a month. This is the key. Hearing something one time is probably not enough, no matter how relaxed you are, especially something as emotionally charged and high-stakes as money matters.

BUT, the thing of it is, the things that were my biggest worries at that time did go away pretty quickly. The tough part of it is, that the best part of seeing a hypnotherapist is person is one of the worst things as well. After the specific problems were mentioned weren't really on my mind anymore, they were still being mentioned every time I played my CD. This caused me to remember to worry about those things and also didn't provide an opportunity to insert current worries and problems. Of course, you do still hear the things you are supposed to do, but I had a really tough time not feeling anxiety because of what was at the beginning of my CD so I stopped listening to it.

I do have a list of websites that have scripts specifically designed for traders, if anyone is interested. I actually combined and modified a few scripts to create my own. Never did anything with them, but occasionally, I actually say one of the phrases to myself, even though it's been a year. So, something must have gotten stuck in my head!

The experience lasted about 2 1/2 hours and it was either $75 or $100 (can't remember).

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I do have a list of websites that have scripts specifically designed for traders, if anyone is interested. I actually combined and modified a few scripts to create my own.


I am interested, thanks.

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i agree with george ...
for me it works well, hypnosis is a learning approach to go deeper ...
if you understand somethink about brain, psycholygy, nlp and hypnosis
you understand also the power of words ... and what the can do for you ...

why we have fear?
why you are overtrade the market?

for me 2 simple words imporved my trading ( trigger words) - success and opportunity?

understand the "Trance" state ... and what happend (look also for alpha, delta and theta waves) ...

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.
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Whoops! I was so long-winded with my hypnotherapy experience I forgot to include the suggestion I had for people considering going to a hypnotherapist! (see post #60).

If your hypnotherapist is making a recording during your session for you play at home, I urge you to consider having him or her make general references to your current problems and pausing to give you a chance to think about your issues as you're listening. Mine had me empty a very heavy backpack and I was supposed to visualize myself taking each trouble out and throwing into a lake and watching it sink, while she named each specific problem. But when the problems trading in real life, the recording was obviously still naming my old problems.

So, if I do it over again, I would have her say something like, "As you look through your backpack, examine each item and think about what items you want to keep and what items you want to get rid of." Then a pause to give me a chance to think about what I am currently having trouble with. Kind of like at church, when the pastor prays for a bunch of specific people and then says, "and those we name in our hearts before you," followed by a pause.

Hope this helps.

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Jagui,

Here are my favorite hypnosis websites. I am not affiliated with any of them.

My favorite one: STOCK TRADER

The reason it is my favorite is because he gives you the exact words he is using. I've bought some general ones in the past about money and success, but sometimes I don't agree with the particular suggestions. So, it's excellent that he is telling you verbatim what's on the tapes. Also, there are a lot of different ones for different types of trading. It's cool that he really gets specific. I combined phrases from the wide variety of trading scripts he has on there to make my own, which I read through sometimes.

Trading Hypnosis

This one I actually own myself: Trading Psychology | Self Hypnosis Downloads

This one is really NLP and is by Patrick Stockhausen. The five part course is great and you don't get a bunch of never-ending e-mails. In fact, I don't recall getting a single one after I took the free course. I do own the Millionaire Mindset Program and listen to it frequently. There are three sessions, one of which you're supposed to listen to before trading and another during the trading session.
Here's the website for that one: The Millionaire's Mind Set : For Traders & Investors

I've really considered buying these: E-Mini DayTrading Course | Trading Psychology CDs

LOVE this one: EOC Institute- EquiSync- Brainwave technology for deep meditation.
I own the Equisync Enlightenment. Listen to it nearly every night as I'm falling asleep. You do need headphones, though. It just sounds like rain, not a thunderstorm. This site is extremely rich with information and I found it extremely interesting. There's no talking or anything on the CDs.

Hope it helps . . .

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tmmaggi View Post
If your hypnotherapist is making a recording during your session for you play at home, I urge you to consider having him or her make general references to your current problems and pausing to give you a chance to think about your issues as you're listening. Mine had me empty a very heavy backpack and I was supposed to visualize myself taking each trouble out and throwing into a lake and watching it sink, while she named each specific problem. But when the problems trading in real life, the recording was obviously still naming my old problems.

.

The way the person I worked with suggested I do it was to: "to release all negativity into a backpack" sort of thing. So, without even trying to consciously identify any limiting beliefs or hurtful situations, to let them all go.

This way, according to the hypnotherapist, one's subconscious mind could let go of the foundation of issues vs. one particular issue, which might really be just a symptom of a deeper thing showing up in all sorts of ways.

Anyway, I'm still not a millionaire, but I don't overtrade as much. LOL.

Thanks.

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“You are an excellent STOCK TRADER. You focus your mind on studying and mastering all aspects. Your strategy is perfect. You have a natural and intrinsic talent and skill......." from the stock trader page (STOCK TRADER)!

Okay, I suppose you're buying the tape and you manage to get yourself into the deep trance, and you start to listen to these tapes! Would you become a great trader?!

Let me tell you this!

Have you ever heard of "Your Biggest Enemy is YOU"! I'm sure you have!, But have you ever thought of what it really means?

It means that you have to get pass yourself by yourself through yourself!. It's like smoking. Why in the whole world does one smoke cigarettes (or whatever they smoke), even though he/she, consciously knows that it is not good for them!

Because it has a function. And that function is fulfilled by the mind. And if your mind, thinks that what it does, it does it for your own good. Believe me, it will do everything in it's power to keep on supporting that!.

It's like a gatekeeper. It doesn't matter how much you tell it that this thing is not good for you. All it's telling you is "Ye shell not pass"!

And that's exactly what happens when you consciously try to pass the gatekeeper. It is not allowing you to pass. And in order to get the change you have to get through the gatekeeper that will not let you pass because it thinks in terms of protection!

That's why YOU are you biggest enemy! It simply means that even if you consciously have realized that you need the change. That beast inside of you (and trust me, it does not think of it self that way), will put on it's armor in order to protect you against everything that can threaten it's role of keeping you safe!

Now, is it possible to get pass that? YES, big YES!
How?

You have to send it away (and it is possible to do that, even though it is temporary)!

How do you do that?
You'll need a very good hypnotist! One that's both able to measure and feel that you, while you're lying there really has gone beyond and has managed to send away the gatekeeper!

Can you do that by yourself?

Well, in theory yes! But it a lot more difficult because, it's a bit difficult to fool yourself!

That's why I believe that tapes don't help, and are either a tool in the hypnotist box, that tells us a lot about the hypnotist! Meaning that he/she is using this more in a commercial manner, or that they don't really are that good, and has not really understood this whole concept at all!

So really guys! Remember this one thing! Hypnosis is really, really powerful.
But in order to make it work for you you have to have two things with you.

1. You have to be ready to let go of things, and let yourself flow into the unknown (after all you'll be getting reprogrammed, and your perspective will be unknown from your current perspective seen)!
and
2. You'll have to get yourself a really good hypnotist!
I've posted some links, and I've already done some writing about that. And I'm not telling you to listen to what I am saying, but please for your own sake, if you've gone that far that you're passed point 1 here, do some background research, look them up, study a bit the schools that are out there, and get yourself a hypnotist that knows what the $@£€ he/she is doing!








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Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #67 (permalink)
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George View Post
“You are an excellent STOCK TRADER. You focus your mind on studying and mastering all aspects. Your strategy is perfect. You have a natural and intrinsic talent and skill......." from the stock trader page (STOCK TRADER)!


I agree with what you're saying George. When you hear stuff like the above quote, your gatekeeper knows you're just a big liar. (That's why I didn't buy it). But, there are some valuable phrases here and there in this script and a couple others on the site. That way you can pick and choose which sentences work for your circumstances and your brain will actually listen to.


"You'll need a very good hypnotist! " THAT is a tough task all by itself! For me, it was tough to find a hypnotist at all, and apparently the one I found wasn't a good one, since she counted on my listening to a CD of our session every night. Still, I keep dreaming of strategies to get the demons out of my head.

Thanks for those links, by the way, George.

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Hello George,

Great post. For me hypnosis would never work, as I would not be able and willing to let go things and let myself floating into the unknown.

Your gatekeeper is the bad habit. What we need to do, is unlearning our habits. If hypnosis is one vehicle that can be used for unlearning, there are other vehicles.

Let me discuss one example.


Impatience

I am used to work. I do not want to sit in front of my screens doing nothing, I am also eager to trade. So I will enter a trade within the first 10 minutes after I switched on my equipment.

Ooops! More often than not it will become a loser.

I should have waited to allow myself to inhale the mood of the market and to get into the zone. Also go through my daily check list first. An airplane pilot will not take off, before he has done his homework and got the clearing of the tower. Fine, I don't have a tower, nobody prevents me from killing myself.

So what to do about this? How can I unlearn to trade during the first 15 minutes?

First I need to be aware of the problem. For example I can write a post on Big Mike's Forum convincing myself that I should not trade during the first 15 minutes.

Then I need a mechanism for unlearning. For example I can take my little Buddha and put it in front of my screens. I am not a buddhist, but this Buddha is a laughing Buddha, so if I put it in front of my screens, it will laugh at me. Put that on my daily check list: Little Buddha sits in front of the screens during the first 15 minutes and tells me that I should not trade. This should work to trigger the unlearning of the bad habit. I willl save the money for the hypnotherapist and buy a bottle of good wine instead.

Once I have successfully learned to be patient, little Buddha goes back to his little corner, and I will look for the next bad habit.

So far the theory. Did you really stop smoking? Have you done as much exercise as you need? Did you stop eating cookies? How many bad habits did you unlearn during the last month?

Maybe I should try a hypnotherapist instead. But then I do not like fairy tales and I do not believe in Father X-mas. How the hell should hypnotherapy work? Little Buddha will even laugh more at me.

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...

Maybe I should try a hypnotherapist instead. But then I do not like fairy tales and I do not believe in Father X-mas. How the hell should hypnotherapy work? Little Buddha will even laugh more at me.

I do not believe in a lot of things, and do not believe in those too, but hypnotherapy works.
Well, it depends what we mean by "it works", an how deep is the problem involved, but some people really stop smoking, are able to remember very old/forgotten souvenirs, don't feel pain during surgery, etc, it's a fact.

You should try it, just to be sure it's not working

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I do not believe in a lot of things, and do not believe in those too, but hypnotherapy works.
Well, it depends what we mean by "it works", an how deep is the problem involved, but some people really stop smoking, are able to remember very old/forgotten souvenirs, don't feel pain during surgery, etc, it's a fact.

You should try it, just to be sure it's not working

I also believe that it works. I am not sure that it works for everybody, though.

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I also believe that it works. I am not sure that it works for everybody, though.

That's right, we agree then, and George will do I think.
Some people won't stop smoking with hypnotherapy, and some people are impossible to hypnotize (I think you may be one of them ).
But some people are very good "clients" for this, easy to hypnotize, and good results for them.

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Great info!

Thanks for sharing Tmmaggi.






tmmaggi View Post
Jagui,

Here are my favorite hypnosis websites. I am not affiliated with any of them.

My favorite one: STOCK TRADER

The reason it is my favorite is because he gives you the exact words he is using. I've bought some general ones in the past about money and success, but sometimes I don't agree with the particular suggestions. So, it's excellent that he is telling you verbatim what's on the tapes. Also, there are a lot of different ones for different types of trading. It's cool that he really gets specific. I combined phrases from the wide variety of trading scripts he has on there to make my own, which I read through sometimes.

Trading Hypnosis

This one I actually own myself: Trading Psychology | Self Hypnosis Downloads

This one is really NLP and is by Patrick Stockhausen. The five part course is great and you don't get a bunch of never-ending e-mails. In fact, I don't recall getting a single one after I took the free course. I do own the Millionaire Mindset Program and listen to it frequently. There are three sessions, one of which you're supposed to listen to before trading and another during the trading session.
Here's the website for that one: The Millionaire's Mind Set : For Traders & Investors

I've really considered buying these: E-Mini DayTrading Course | Trading Psychology CDs

LOVE this one: EOC Institute- EquiSync- Brainwave technology for deep meditation.
I own the Equisync Enlightenment. Listen to it nearly every night as I'm falling asleep. You do need headphones, though. It just sounds like rain, not a thunderstorm. This site is extremely rich with information and I found it extremely interesting. There's no talking or anything on the CDs.

Hope it helps . . .


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I managed to improve some important things in my mind by using psycho-cybernetics.
It is not hypnotims, but it teaches you how to relax, how to get rid of bad things in your mind (or unlearning) and how to reprogram your mind through visualization.

I think it is a kind of Neuro Linguistic Programming.

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I managed to improve some important things in my mind by using psycho-cybernetics.
It is not hypnotims, but it teaches you how to relax, how to get rid of bad things in your mind (or unlearning) and how to reprogram your mind through visualization.

I think it is a kind of Neuro Linguistic Programming.


That sounds very interesting!!! Did you learn it from a book, CDs, website? I have trouble relaxing, hence all the CDs I own and websites I visit looking for help.

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That sounds very interesting!!! Did you learn it from a book, CDs, website? I have trouble relaxing, hence all the CDs I own and websites I visit looking for help.

I learned from the book:

The New Psycho-Cybernetics, by Maxwell Maltz and Dan S. Kennedy.

Maybe NLP has evolved since then, but I think this book is the best start.

I must confess that relaxing is the thing that I do better, I must be born to relax :-)

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tmmaggi,

You're most welcome!
And remember if you've managed to get yourself into trans, then every sentence (affirmation etc.), will work! Why? The gatekeeper is gone, and the information is allowed to enter directly into the subconscious! That's the trick, and what differs a good hypnotist from a bad one, is that he/she is able to see if you're passed your gatekeeper!

One idea is to do this before you've fallen a sleep! Just before we've fallen into sleep our brain goes into (one of the Greeks, can't remember which one Alpha or ....) state, and that's as near as trans as we can come! So, when you go to bed, start by relaxing, and go on after that to your sentences, and repeat them till you've fallen a sleep.



tmmaggi View Post
I agree with what you're saying George. When you hear stuff like the above quote, your gatekeeper knows you're just a big liar. (That's why I didn't buy it). But, there are some valuable phrases here and there in this script and a couple others on the site. That way you can pick and choose which sentences work for your circumstances and your brain will actually listen to.


"You'll need a very good hypnotist! " THAT is a tough task all by itself! For me, it was tough to find a hypnotist at all, and apparently the one I found wasn't a good one, since she counted on my listening to a CD of our session every night. Still, I keep dreaming of strategies to get the demons out of my head.

Thanks for those links, by the way, George.


We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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Sam!

I couldn't agree more!


sam028 View Post
That's right, we agree then, and George will do I think.
Some people won't stop smoking with hypnotherapy, and some people are impossible to hypnotize (I think you may be one of them ).
But some people are very good "clients" for this, easy to hypnotize, and good results for them.


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Past performance is not indicative of future results.
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Fat Tails View Post
Hello George,

Great post. For me hypnosis would never work, as I would not be able and willing to let go things and let myself floating into the unknown.

Your gatekeeper is the bad habit. What we need to do, is unlearning our habits. If hypnosis is one vehicle that can be used for unlearning, there are other vehicles.

Let me discuss one example.


Impatience

I am used to work. I do not want to sit in front of my screens doing nothing, I am also eager to trade. So I will enter a trade within the first 10 minutes after I switched on my equipment.

Ooops! More often than not it will become a loser.

I should have waited to allow myself to inhale the mood of the market and to get into the zone. Also go through my daily check list first. An airplane pilot will not take off, before he has done his homework and got the clearing of the tower. Fine, I don't have a tower, nobody prevents me from killing myself.

So what to do about this? How can I unlearn to trade during the first 15 minutes?

First I need to be aware of the problem. For example I can write a post on Big Mike's Forum convincing myself that I should not trade during the first 15 minutes.

Then I need a mechanism for unlearning. For example I can take my little Buddha and put it in front of my screens. I am not a buddhist, but this Buddha is a laughing Buddha, so if I put it in front of my screens, it will laugh at me. Put that on my daily check list: Little Buddha sits in front of the screens during the first 15 minutes and tells me that I should not trade. This should work to trigger the unlearning of the bad habit. I willl save the money for the hypnotherapist and buy a bottle of good wine instead.

Once I have successfully learned to be patient, little Buddha goes back to his little corner, and I will look for the next bad habit.

So far the theory. Did you really stop smoking? Have you done as much exercise as you need? Did you stop eating cookies? How many bad habits did you unlearn during the last month?

Maybe I should try a hypnotherapist instead. But then I do not like fairy tales and I do not believe in Father X-mas. How the hell should hypnotherapy work? Little Buddha will even laugh more at me.


Fat Tails my friend,

I liked your other picture better! But maybe this one is giving your more justice !

So apart from the jokes! I totally agree with you!
The unlearning is the most important key in this whole equation called life! The irony is that, we have to learn first in order to unlearn later. And by the time we've learned, we've already paved our paths with concrete!

The key is still the one you're hiding constantly behind! Dump the monkey! And reach out!
I'm in a bad mode right now. Could be the bottle of wine, you suggested!

Let me give you a hint!

When do you do your best trades? And really just stop over rationalizing, and just be fair to yourself. When, do you always, always get your best trades?


Al right, I confess, I guessed here! But I do dare to guess, that this is the case for almost all of us!
The best trades, we do, ALWAYS when we don't give a damn about the outcome!

Correct me if I'm wrong!

Now, why is it that way? Very simple answer! NO FEAR!

When we don't give a damn about the outcome, we simply don't care. We just throw the trade out there, and we don't care if it's going against us, or if it's with us. We simply don't care. And because we lack fear, - that indeed allows us to perceive the trade very much differently from our "normal" we do care about the outcome trade - our perception shifts to a much more objective one, you're getting in sync with the market! That's what's happening to you (you meaning all of us) when you trade on sim. You're trading without the fear of loosing money.

It's called "LETTING GO"!


Now, would hypnosis even reach that far, and help you? Yes if you dare to let go of things!
Would the unlearning process allow you to give up your safety?! No, because we're so keen to get our so beloved past to be projected onto our future!



PS: Impatience is also based on fear!

Oh and by the way! One thing about habits. Try to look at it this way instead!
The moment you've realized that your so beloved habit exists then it's not a habit anymore. It shifts. And it shifts to a choice you're making. The question to be asked then is WHY?
Why am I choosing to do this?


And Fat Tails, once again thanks for your wonderful injections! I do enjoy, and appreciate them.

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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George View Post
Fat Tails my friend,

I liked your other picture better! But maybe this one is giving your more justice !

So apart from the jokes! I totally agree with you!
The unlearning is the most important key in this whole equation called life! The irony is that, we have to learn first in order to unlearn later. And by the time we've learned, we've already paved our paths with concrete!

The key is still the one you're hiding constantly behind! Dump the monkey! And reach out!
I'm in a bad mode right now. Could be the bottle of wine, you suggested!

Let me give you a hint!

When do you do your best trades? And really just stop over rationalizing, and just be fair to yourself. When, do you always, always get your best trades?


Al right, I confess, I guessed here! But I do dare to guess, that this is the case for almost all of us!
The best trades, we do, ALWAYS when we don't give a damn about the outcome!

Correct me if I'm wrong!

Now, why is it that way? Very simple answer! NO FEAR!

When we don't give a damn about the outcome, we simply don't care. We just throw the trade out there, and we don't care if it's going against us, or if it's with us. We simply don't care. And because we lack fear, - that indeed allows us to perceive the trade very much differently from our "normal" we do care about the outcome trade - our perception shifts to a much more objective one, you're getting in sync with the market! That's what's happening to you (you meaning all of us) when you trade on sim. You're trading without the fear of loosing money.

It's called "LETTING GO"!


Now, would hypnosis even reach that far, and help you? Yes if you dare to let go of things!
Would the unlearning process allow you to give up your safety?! No, because we're so keen to get our so beloved past to be projected onto our future!



PS: Impatience is also based on fear!

Oh and by the way! One thing about habits. Try to look at it this way instead!
The moment you've realized that your so beloved habit exists then it's not a habit anymore. It shifts. And it shifts to a choice you're making. The question to be asked then is WHY?
Why am I choosing to do this?


And Fat Tails, once again thanks for your wonderful injections! I do enjoy, and appreciate them.

Absolubtly brilliant post george thank you very much!

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George View Post
Fat Tails my friend,

I liked your other picture better! But maybe this one is giving your more justice !

The key is still the one you're hiding constantly behind! Dump the monkey! And reach out!

PS: Impatience is also based on fear!


George,

I really enjoy reading your posts. It is a challenge to find an appropriate answer.

"Dump the Monkey". I am still laughing. Seems you prefer an orang utan baby with pampers to a grown up gorilla? Do you feel that the monkey is a threat to the dogs?

No, that monkey won't be dumped. When I first visited this forum, I was not sure whether it was trader's forum or a forum for dog breeders. A dog is a follower, representing the trading crowd. It stands for the retail bus people. Dogs of the Dow. The monkey tends to do the unexpected and for me it has several meanings:

It is a contrarian response to a crowd of dogs (including your beloved bat).

I think it was Konrad Lorenz who compared humans to a carriage with rocket propulsion, the carriage being our instincts and the rocket propulsion our intellect. There is a lack of equilibrium, as the carriage is not adapted to the propulsion system. The monkey represents our lower instincts, those instincts and impulsive reactions which make trading that difficult. The monkey is part of every traders personality and it needs to arrange itself with the rocket propulsion. Nothing wrong there.

The monkey also stands for fugacity. The orang utans ("orang hutan" Bahasa Indonesia for forest man) and the gorillas are near extinct, because humans are badly exploiting the planet's resources. The climatic change and the extinction of a large variety of species may well be a 7-sigma-event in the Earth's history. It is a fat tail or black swan, which is now inescapable. It paralles events such as the Flash Crash. Both the evolution of species and the markets are nonlinear dynamic systems, the extinction of the species is the evolutionary crash.

I agree that this leads a bit away from the subject of this thread, just wanted to explain why I do not intend to "dump the Monkey". Byhe way, it is not yet sure that Homo Sapiens will prove superior to the rats or monkeys.

You say that impatience is based on fear.

This could well be in some circumstances. But I do not agree in general. At the origin I would rather see a conflict between something that holds you back - typically an external cause - and the wish to follow an already activated plan or idea. Impatience is bad a way to cope with this conflict. I think it is also part of our Western culture. Actually I am much more patient when in Asia or on a holiday trip.

Impatience can be based on fear, if you cannot stand the tension any more and follow an impulse. But I think that the other reaction is predominant, that fear prevents you from trading.

Impatience is just a habit. If your mind is trained and used to a certain level of noise, it asks you for some entertainment. If I put on the first trade too early, it is not fear, it is rather boredom, as I do not want to follow the exercise of my prefabricated plan. Charts are like shadow plays, you get five new ideas every minute, and then you are curious, you want to try what happens, if - and oops - you will be find out.

It is the difficulty to reach the zone. If you go to a piano concert, usually the pianist has a hard time during the first 15 minutes, the audience also has. So he does not play well. If am listening I cannot fully concentrate either, it takes me at least 20 minutes to settle down and to focus my attention to the music. So you will not have a flow experience, when starting out, and the flow experience is what every top performer needs. The flow protects you and actually activates you mental capacities, which are not present during the first half hour.

So I am not in the zone during the first 20 minutes for any activity. In the morning these 20 minutes can easily become 30 minutes, in the evening I can adapt somehow faster.

Slowly diving into another world.

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I have tried hypnotherapy and it works great! It's called Lexapro.

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George View Post
Hypnosis works!!!

NOW!
In order to get hypnosis to work, one has to have the right mental attitude. There are normally four mental attitudes counted. Here they are:
(the process of hypnosis is based on suggestions given by the hypnotherapist)


# 1
"I like that suggestion. I know it's going to work for me!"
# 2
"I don't know; it sounds a little uncomfortable to me. It just doesn't fit me."
#3
"I'm neutral about it. I don't care if I get it or don't get it."
# 4
"I like that suggestion. I hope it works!"


ONLY ONE WORKS! Guess which one?!

Now you do the math, and ask yourselves if hypnosis is something dangerous, or if it is something very powerful, that is very much controlled by you and no one else!

Hi @George,

I started a thread called psychological reversed. While reading the threads I came across this post. I do and don't agree with your premise that only the 1st one works. What if the suggestion was that the subject was invisible, or he/she can travel into the future, or that he/she is Tom Cruise or Paris Hilton. Clearly if the subject thought these things it would be far from the truth and it would fail horribly.

...your thoughts

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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rtrade,

My thoughts are that, IF you were to like the suggestion and accept it to be true, then it would work. Just watch a show of stage hypnosis and look at all those people doing stupid things when the hypnotists suggests it. Why do they do that?

Simply because they've conditioned themselves to accept the whole idea about being hypnotized. Now, Tom Cruise is one thing. But what if the hypnotist suggests to you that you should clean your account and transfer all your money into his account! Would you like that suggestion to be true?

I'll tell you this one thing, if you accept it to be true and if you like it, then you're gone transfer all your money into his account!

The question remaining here is still: "Would you like and accept that suggestion to be true"?



rtrade View Post
Hi @George,

I started a thread called psychological reversed. While reading the threads I came across this post. I do and don't agree with your premise that only the 1st one works. What if the suggestion was that the subject was invisible, or he/she can travel into the future, or that he/she is Tom Cruise or Paris Hilton. Clearly if the subject thought these things it would be far from the truth and it would fail horribly.

...your thoughts


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Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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George View Post

The question remaining here is still: "Would you like and accept that suggestion to be true"?

Of course not...thus rendering it ineffective...it won't work. But let me change the Tom Cruise to a subject related to trading, Warren Buffet.

So now I'm on stage, you are the hypnotist, I want to improve my trading because I'm psychological reversed, you suggest I am Warren Buffet. Now, I meet the criteria...I like the suggestion, and I know it's going to work for me.

How will I act on stage?

or better yet, suppose the exercise was performed in the office of my trading desk...

How will I perform?

thanks

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Again,

If you accept the suggestion as one that you like and you know works for you, it will work. You'll be implementing the suggestion into your system!

Now, my question to you is how would a suggestion like that serve you in improving you trading?



rtrade View Post
Of course not...thus rendering it ineffective...it won't work. But let me change the Tom Cruise to a subject related to trading, Warren Buffet.

So now I'm on stage, you are the hypnotist, I want to improve my trading because I'm psychological reversed, you suggest I am Warren Buffet. Now, I meet the criteria...I like the suggestion, and I know it's going to work for me.

How will I act on stage?

or better yet, suppose the exercise was performed in the office of my trading desk...

How will I perform?

thanks


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Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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George View Post

Now, my question to you is how would a suggestion like that serve you in improving you trading?

@George, George, George, I have to admit...you're good, you do know your subject matter. Initially, I was annoyed that you answered my question with a question and normally, I would push for you to answer my "specific" question I asked. But you actually intertwined the answer within your question. I see what you mean....or should I say, "Ahhhh Haaaaaaa!"

There is one thing I would like to ask. On one of your sticky thread, you touched on the particular subconscious that controls our breathing, heart, etc...perhaps you can call it the Super Conscious? But if you ever get to writing a thread on it please let me know...I suspect it directly ties in why a person is successful in one aspect of his/her life but not in another...

Thanks again George

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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rtrade,

You're most welcome!

We're getting deep here my friend! It would kind of make us jump a bit off the topic if we're to start talking about destiny and other stuff. But let me put it to you this way.

That part of our inner subconscious mind, has actually nothing to do with what you're looking for. It's just the part of us that goes on automatic so that we don't have to think on a conscious level when we're supposed to breathe and so on.

Now the question remains. Can everyone of us become Warren Buffet? My answer to that is NO. Why? Because Warren B is Warren B and you are you. What makes you YOU is unique and it's based on every programe implemented in your system (subconscious mind). See yourself as a computer. In order to be able to write on your pc you'll be needing a software in order to be able to do that. Unless you don't have the software, you can wish yourself to be able to write but it won't happen.

Now, by being in the markets people do eventually get the proper software in order to be able to perceive the markets. But you see a lot of times that software is becoming infected by all the losses that are aquired by ones system. So now we do have the software but we also have a virus. Would your pc work properly if it's infected?

Hypnosis takes away your viruses. Hypnosis can also install a proper software that would make you act in a desired way. But the whole issue is unfortunately more complex than that. Why?

Because what we perceive consciously is just a small fracture of how we actually are working on the subconscious level. You see the role of your subconscious mind is to protect you. Let me give you an example. You've done three trades losing trades in a row. The program we all have in our subconscious minds that is linked to money is that we all need money in order to survive. So your subconscious mind knows that, and all it wants to do is to protect you in order to keep you safe. In order to do that, it projects fear into your future in order to keep you out of losing trades (you've just lost three times in a row).

The next trade shows up, and what do you do? You get what's called fear of pulling the trigger. Where does that come from? You've figured it out by now!

Is that bad? No. It has a proper function. It wants to keep you safe.

Now turn over to the sim and start trading that one instead. Are you able to pull the trigger now? Of course you are. Why?; because your mind knows that it does not have to use those safety mechanisms in order to keep you safe. You are already safe, because it is not for real.

But then again, my question to you: Is it really not real?




rtrade View Post
@George, George, George, I have to admit...you're good, you do know your subject matter. Initially, I was annoyed that you answered my question with a question and normally, I would push for you to answer my "specific" question I asked. But you actually intertwined the answer within your question. I see what you mean....or should I say, "Ahhhh Haaaaaaa!"

There is one thing I would like to ask. On one of your sticky thread, you touched on the particular subconscious that controls our breathing, heart, etc...perhaps you can call it the Super Conscious? But if you ever get to writing a thread on it please let me know...I suspect it directly ties in why a person is successful in one aspect of his/her life but not in another...

Thanks again George


We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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George View Post

Because what we perceive consciously is just a small fracture of how we actually are working on the subconscious level. You see the role of your subconscious mind is to protect you. Let me give you an example. You've done three trades losing trades in a row. The program we all have in our subconscious minds that is linked to money is that we all need money in order to survive. So your subconscious mind knows that, and all it wants to do is to protect you in order to keep you safe. In order to do that, it projects fear into your future in order to keep you out of losing trades (you've just lost three times in a row).

The next trade shows up, and what do you do? You get what's called fear of pulling the trigger. Where does that come from? You've figured it out by now!

Is that bad? No. It has a proper function. It wants to keep you safe.

Now turn over to the sim and start trading that one instead. Are you able to pull the trigger now? Of course you are. Why?; because your mind knows that it does not have to use those safety mechanisms in order to keep you safe. You are already safe, because it is not for real.

But then again, my question to you: Is it really not real?


I don't want to seem like I'm hogging this thread, but give me some leeway to expound a bit and I'll bring the subject to hypnosis...self hypnosis via affirmations.

A while back my wife and I went to see a marriage counselor, it was the typical men think like this and women think like that....example I would say,"I think two plus two equals four." and she would say, "I feel two plus two is 7." I would say, "you're wrong." and she would reply, "I don't feel I'm wrong." And on and on it goes...So the therapist, who I paid $300.00/hr for, said to me..."Would you rather be right or happy?" Being a guy I rearranged the saying to...."Would I rather be right or have those natural DD's hanging in my face." I realized it wasn't worth fighting for my EGO.

I bring this up because this forum is filled with egos and when you get burned by PHONEY traders peddling CRAP you have to sometimes challenge what is said (a defensive mechanism, perhaps). So when you gave those 4 options and 1 being the correct one...my EGO immediately tried to find FLAW...and it did. And from your answer we both can agree. But by letting go my ego I realized what you were getting at.

You see option 1: I like the suggestion, I know it's going to work for me; Is like an indicator we use in our charts on certain conditions it will not work, but in the Majority of conditions it will...Thus CHOOSING the CORRECT suggestion that will bring the trading results that I desire.

So on to your question, Is it real or not real? I don't want to fall to deeply into this one so I'll limit it to - the subconscious makes no distinction from what is a dream or what is reality, it will function how it was programed sort of speak. This is only from what I read, I have no real practice on this matter. So I don't want to sound like a successful LIVE TRADER and when I'm just a Sim Trader. Thus by providing affirmation in self hypnosis, I can reprogram the subconscious to make me conscious of my trading plan. Also I will be able to execute my plan in a disciplinary way. How would I do it? Well, I can't affirm, "I am a good trader." My subconscious is going to say, wtf is this?, too general...I want something more specific. So I'll go over a plan tonight and try this self hypnosis tomorrow before the market opens.

Oh, and George...I read what you said on EFT thread...I like you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you 100% of the time...sorry, but that youtube clip lost if for me...

thanks

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if you can see it, you will gain, because you attitude will chance to the right side

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.
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Anybody do any EFT's?

Emotional Freedom Technique's. They have rocked my world. The challenge is to have someone do them that knows your issue.

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sharky View Post
gary i studied remote viewing and it has helped my trading...sharky

Ok @sharky, I'll bite...how has studying remote viewing improved your trading?


wh View Post
if you can see it, you will gain, because you attitude will chance to the right side

@wh, can you expound on this "Cause and Effect" principle?

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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  #93 (permalink)
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Gary,

I have just gone through the first couple of pages in this thread and would like to thank you for sharing and being so honest about your self. I think it is really cool and marvelous to see people being open minded enough to explore and doing what ever it takes.

Regarding faith, I would like to comment that what ever we do to evolve, that be psychotherapy, hypnosis or so on, it all comes down to our neural networks programmed belief system, perception of reality, reality paradigm, or what ever one would like to call it. But if you are referring to the book Evolve Your Brain by Joe Dispenza you already know this. I think he is one of the top resources on the matter. I got to know about him through the movie What The Bleep do We Know - Down the Rabbit Hole where he talks about it.

The thing that gave me the big shift in both life and trading was that I had to take a step back and take a serious look at my reality perceptions. At the same time as I went through them I studied things like in Evolve Your Brain, The Field by Lynn McTaggart and other stuff that concerned subjective evaluation of self worth to come up with the facts and the obvious. Then from the best-as-I-could-facts I decided what to believe in and take a leap of faith into my new reality. A fantastic experience. My ego got proof that there actually were better realities than the one I previously lived in, it was safe to believe in something more positive, not at all dangerous . Crazy right? but as you most probably know this is how the ego works. One of the simple more important sentences of wisdom that came out from my process was; If something makes you feel bad or gives you a destructive behavioral pattern, it is simply put always based on a lie in your fundamental belief system. If one have the truth, things works effortlessly and ones system falls into wholeness and good health.

Thanks and the best of luck,
Laurus

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.” - Hsin Hsin Ming
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  #94 (permalink)
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from my understanding all information is already availble asout side gravity the is really no such thing as time so when the christians say god knows the past present and future i understand what that means,remote viewing trains your hand to draw what your minds already sees but what your concience mind doesnt relize at the moment.there are several approaches to it,i just used it as a means to relax my mind more and get in the "zone"...sharky

KILLING THE MARKETS DAILY
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  #95 (permalink)
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I see a ton of great comments/suggestions/questions here on this thread and wanted to ask about a related subject....

Lucid dreaming.

I have been studying lucid dreaming for many months now, and have had a handful. The last one happened about 2 weeks ago, and was very fun. Anyway, I think this is another tool we can use to gain access to our subconscious or to help perform visualization and practice for certain activities we may want to improve upon. Based on what I have read, in many cases, the mind works in a very similar way when we perform a physical activity, and then when we visualize the same activity on a regular basis through hypnotherapy, meditation, or lucid dreaming, for example.

I am still very new to this subject, and would love to hear other's thoughts and experiences on this subject.

I can tell you I believe keeping a dream journal is an important step, and I have tried a number of techniques including MILD, DILD, and WILD. I have also tried various audio tools to help create the opportunity for a lucid dream to occur.

No matter what you believe, lucid dreaming has the potential to be a ton of fun, if nothing more. But, me personally, I believe it to be another powerful tool of the mind, which when used properly can help you improve on a number of things more quickly than without.

Thoughts/comments?

Gary

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  #96 (permalink)
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Gary View Post
....Lucid dreaming.

I have been studying lucid dreaming for many months now, and have had a handful. The last one happened about 2 weeks ago, and was very fun. Anyway, I think this is another tool we can use to gain access to our subconscious or to help perform visualization and practice for certain activities we may want to improve upon.....

Thoughts/comments?

Gary

Hello Gary.

I am working on a project for myself, and if you would be interested I would suggest that you get hold of a Silva CD where the whole spectrum of Silva sounds are recorded without any voice. With the whole spectrum I mean Delta, Theta and Alpha wave frequencies. What one can then do is to write down the behavior affirmations one wish. Like trading rules and so on, but be aware that you don't use negative affirmations like "don't do that, or never do this and so on", instead use affirmations where you tell your self what you are doing as you are already doing it, like "every time this happens I do...". Then record this with each of the different wave spectrums, meaning you are repeating your text three times and thus programming your self on three levels in a row in one session. During the sessions you visualize doing the affirmations.

The advantage of both Delta, Theta and Alpha is that we often do not know when a behavior or perception was adopted. So we make sure that we program on all three levels. Another advantage with all three levels is that we are enforcing the affirmations. One of the reasons for using positive affirmations where you act as you already do it is because of the same principle of "power of example" which is what children use when they learn their behaviour from looking at us grown ups.

I do not remember exactly, but I think I am pretty accurate when I say Delta is dominant from birth to about three years old. Theta is from about three years to seven, and Alpha is from seven to about fourteen. It is not until after fourteen years of age that we get the Beta as the dominant wave frequency. What this means is that things happening from birth to three years old is most effectively accessed and reprogrammed when you go down to Delta level and so on. This is why telling your self positive affirmations when walking around in Beta state does not work very well. What I also think is interesting about this on a personal level is that we have different needs and phases for developement when we grow up. As an example, if one then go back and see that when we were four years old we had those and those needs which was not met, we can go down to Theta level and work with it effectively.

Laurus

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  #97 (permalink)
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Just saw this thread last night and caught up w it today while the russell has stopped producing signals I like...

I know the hypnosis aspect of this thread has been covered a bunch but thought I'd weigh in. I think hypnosis is a tool and can have an effect on our behavior. I don't subscribe any special status to it other than it is an effective way to encourage mindfulness at times when we need to be more mindful. Mindfulness is just being able to "keep our cool" under pressure in a way that allows us to remember how we want to behave under given circumstances. For instance, when we're watching the market and a pattern comes up that we traded in the past but no longer view as a valid signal - we want to be mindful and NOT take the trade although if we are "off-center" (by this I mean overly influenced by our emotional state be it fear, greed, hope, etc) we may react and enter a trade.

One trap I believe exists in the hypnosis/self-hypnosis field is that of "something for nothing". Because hypnosis is a technique that is reported to "work on your subconscious" and is done "to you" by someone else, it seems to hold the promise of change without effort. One thing I do believe is that changing habits of thought and emotion is not easy - however this is not to say that they must take a long time. If you've ever had experience (yourself or with someone else) with PTSD then you know that significant change can take place rather quickly if the emotional experience is powerful enough. Any program of change that you commit to is going to take engaging powerful emotions over time - if you think that hypnosis will sidestep this then we disagree about what hypnosis is.

I like Fattails suggestion of the buddha statue - using a talisman of some sort has a long history in human societies - having a physical representation and reminder of your desire to be mindful is an effective technique if used over time.

Steenbarger has a great lecture on behavior change techniques that I found helpful.

Something else I wanted to mention is Ed Seykota's Trading Tribe project (see here) - basically a group therapy process to understand and overcome the emotions that prevent you from trading as would like to trade.

Gary - I'm curious how you plan to use lucid dreaming to help you in your trading? Or is it a way to just explore some of your subconscious? or something else?

I'm struggling with behavior change right now (I guess when am I not?) - just trying to let go of some past ways of thinking and reacting. I'm using a daily scorecard to give myself intra-day scores on how I'm doing at practicing some of the things I've written in my journal as needing to change (e.g., rehearsing trading rules and principles, recognizing "anti-rule" thoughts, actively stopping "anti-rule" thoughts, etc).

thanks for the thread.

Surly

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  #98 (permalink)
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Surly View Post
... Gary - I'm curious how you plan to use lucid dreaming to help you in your trading? Or is it a way to just explore some of your subconscious? or something else?
Surly

Hi Surly,

Thank you for the reply.

To answer your question, I became interested in lucid dreaming mostly as a way to explore the subconscious, our dreams, and learn more about how our brain works. I have had a handful of them, and the last one I had was months ago, but was the most vivid by far.

I also agree with much of what you said about hypnosis, and that is it definitely not 'something for nothing'. I think much of how effective it is comes down to how much you believe it can/will work.

Have a good day,
Gary

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  #99 (permalink)
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Gary - you're welcome, thanks for all your contributions here - I've benefited from them.

Have you read the daily trading coach yet? (I'm guessing you have but if you haven't, its a great book). Something I did which I found helpful was I got a pdf of the book (I bought the original) and converted it into an audiobook using speech generation software. I now listen to that book all the time when I'm riding my bike or driving, etc. So many good lessons on self-coaching and self-development in there and the repetition has been helpful.

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  #100 (permalink)
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Surly View Post
Gary - you're welcome, thanks for all your contributions here - I've benefited from them.

Have you read the daily trading coach yet? (I'm guessing you have but if you haven't, its a great book). Something I did which I found helpful was I got a pdf of the book (I bought the original) and converted it into an audiobook using speech generation software. I now listen to that book all the time when I'm riding my bike or driving, etc. So many good lessons on self-coaching and self-development in there and the repetition has been helpful.

Hi Surly,

Great to hear that you have benefited from some of my contributions here at futures.io (formerly BMT)! I love hearing that kind of stuff.

With regards to The Daily Trading Coach. I have read it, and agree, it is a great book! I get everything on my Kindle now, so I can read on the Kindle, my phone, or my PC, and it has an option on the Kindle to read many books aloud as well. Now, if I just used it when I was exercising or driving.

Have a good one,
Gary

As consistently profitable traders.. "We get paid to wait, and we wait to get paid."
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