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Ask any psychological trading thoughts you may have
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Ask any psychological trading thoughts you may have

  #11 (permalink)
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wal111 View Post
Yes one may earned $200.00 - $300.00 in three hours of trading yes that is good, but when you look at all the outside work one has to put in charting, mindset, risk management that $ 300.00 in three hours in broken down very low. Just my opinion

Indeed, I very well agree with you on this. I can directly relate to this, and here's why. I tutor all grade levels and any subject. Usually prospective clients come to me and they go I need help with grade 12 vectors and calculus. Now I haven't touched vectors and calculus in 3 years (almost 4), and I have to be prepared by the first lesson I give. I have to spend immense amount of time reviewing and refreshing the tiny details and concepts I had carefully learned and practised when I was in gr 12.

So I'd spend almost 9-12 hours the day before reviewing all of it so that I know what I am talking when I do teach. This has been the case for last few years, but my hourly rate is $30/hr. Yes I make 60 in 2 hours which 4 years ago, at McDonalds, it would have taken me 6 hours. but I made 60 over the span of 11-14 hours, so its very low as you mentioned.


But this was just a figure that I've never imagined one could earn in such a short span of time so it bogs me up whenever I go outside and I see other elderly individuals working low paying jobs just to make ends meet. For me the psychological pain and effort we go through as traders just doesn't feel like the same as if when you lets say worked physically hard.

I seem to have a strategy that is consistently profitable on sim, but we all know the whole debate regarding sim vs live. So I now want to go live so I can actually experience the REAL psychological emotions and take it from there. I'll report here to see if there are any changes in the way I view things about this topic after trading live for some time.

Cheers

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  #12 (permalink)
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noobforlyfe View Post
But this was just a figure that I've never imagined one could earn in such a short span of time so it bogs me up whenever I go outside and I see other elderly individuals working low paying jobs just to make ends meet. For me the psychological pain and effort we go through as traders just doesn't feel like the same as if when you lets say worked physically hard.

I seem to have a strategy that is consistently profitable on sim, but we all know the whole debate regarding sim vs live. So I now want to go live so I can actually experience the REAL psychological emotions and take it from there. I'll report here to see if there are any changes in the way I view things about this topic after trading live for some time.

Cheers

It is generally said that 95% of those who attempt trading fail. By "fail" is meant, lose all or most of the money in their account. This is probably true.

So, realistically, there is not an issue here at all. The small number who can make the money you are talking about (or any money) should not make anyone think that it is easy to make so much "in a short span of time." It is very, very rare.

I do wish you luck in your trading, but you will never know what trading is until you put some money on it. Make sure that it is money that you can put at risk. If losing it would affect your life in any important way, don't do it. It is possible to succeed in trading, and it is also possible to fail disastrously. You don't have that in the jobs you are talking about, or in almost any job for that matter. That's why there is no real comparison. Just looking at the possible profit is only a fraction of the story.

Good luck, and don't risk the rent money.

Bob.

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  #13 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
It is generally said that 95% of those who attempt trading fail. By "fail" is meant, lose all or most of the money in their account. This is probably true.

So, realistically, there is not an issue here at all. The small number who can make the money you are talking about (or any money) should not make anyone think that it is easy to make so much "in a short span of time." It is very, very rare.

I do wish you luck in your trading, but you will never know what trading is until you put some money on it. Make sure that it is money that you can put at risk. If losing it would affect your life in any important way, don't do it. It is possible to succeed in trading, and it is also possible to fail disastrously. You don't have that in the jobs you are talking about, or in almost any job for that matter. That's why there is no real comparison. Just looking at the possible profit is only a fraction of the story.

Good luck, and don't risk the rent money.

Bob.

Hello Bob, mhm definitely, I would not be risking money I cannot afford to lose. I'm most likely certain that I will over time end up losing the money I'm going to put in (like most of us have). but nonetheless it is a journey I want to take myself up on. Thanks everyone for their words of wisdom.

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  #14 (permalink)
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Sim vs. Live

Yes Cheers, there is a difference when going from Sim to Live trading and the difference I think is mindset. I will take myself sure I sim / demo traded for a very time and could not make all that great head way at some point I said to myself it I am going to learn, and focus I have to dive in live trading.
That's what I did it really made me have a complete different mindset on trading from a mental stand point. Sure sim / demo is good but, I think to much of it is bad. Because one has to ask themselves do I really want to trade or just for the excitement of trading.
Going live made me to really look as trading as a business, and with sim / demo I just couldn't get that.

God Bless
Thank

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  #15 (permalink)
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Futures Edge on FIO

Which products do you trade?

 

Barnacle Bill View Post
I have bought into the statement that, in business, your income has a lot to do with the VALUE you provide to your customer.

I'm wondering if the same applies to a Trading Business???

Do you feel like you are providing value when you click the mouse to enter and exit a trade?

If I am not trading someone else's money - Is there any Value in trading?

Oh, I may be providing value to my BROKER and some may say I'm adding liquidity to the market or adding to the general knowledge of the market in discovering "Fair Pricing" but is trading simply a selfish pursuit?

Have you found "Value" in trading?

Just wondering out loud here...
Is that why many traders fail?
Maybe they feel like Trading goes against their core values - Is it all about the money?
Am I contributing to anything other than myself?

How about you? -
1. Has trading helped you to make a contribution to your family, charity or world?
2. Could it - if you were successful?
3. Are we providing any Value when we click the mouse to trade?


I would be very interested and thankful for your thoughts - THANKS!

I think that trading is the only profession where one makes money for the sake of making money: all the other jobs you're supposedly doing something and then you get paid.

Of course the bottom line of any job is to get paid, and when you get paid you can pay your bills, your mortgage, your kids' college, etc. ......

Having said that, the trouble is, I think we've really moved away from a model of society where the majority of jobs are supposed to make a difference. Sometimes (check that: often) people are employed in corporate jobs where their role is to 'churn the wheel' as it were, kick the can down the road without making any meaningful progress (I have been there). Even professionals such as doctors, teachers, lawyers, journalists and so on which are supposed to help others have been turned into profit-making zombies (just think of doctors prescribing unnecessary tests just because the hospital can charge the insurance company, or lawyers soliciting all kinds of frivolous lawsuits, and don't get me started on the business of education which should be free, or how journalism has turned into a race to get a few more clicks).

I know I sound very negative, and certainly I don't mean to imply that no job provides any value.

But I digress. The main purpose of virtually any job is to get paid. How many would work for no money? Probably very few.

So I think that by comparing any other job and trading, we can at least say that the end-goal is the same.


Trading for me does not necessarily add value per se. But it is the profitable trader that, (I think, most often than not) adds value by investing or donating their money for worthy causes. I've seen examples here on FIO of people who support charities and similar initiatives.

I think trading can offer the potential to provide more value than most jobs as a by-product.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Barnacle Bill View Post
I have bought into the statement that, in business, your income has a lot to do with the VALUE you provide to your customer.

I'm wondering if the same applies to a Trading Business???

Do you feel like you are providing value when you click the mouse to enter and exit a trade?

Absolutely.

Buy low, sell high, right?

Well, when it's low it's because people desperately want to unload the risk. When it's high it's because people desperately want to own the risk. And that's where you, the speculator, come in. They should be grateful to have you.

But they don't have to thank you. You get paid for the service you provide. It's the very definition of profit in a free market and you Earn.Every. Damn. Penny you make.

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  #17 (permalink)
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It get worse.

In my case, I specialise in trading a derivative of a derivative of a derivative and the most widely reviled stock in the universe, UVXY.

"What could be more socially useless and meaningless than that?"

Which is what my 14 year old daughter would say.

I say, well, I am risking my capital to provide liquidity .

"But there's plenty of liquidity." She would say.

Say that to me the next time there is a volatility spike.

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  #18 (permalink)
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Barnacle Bill View Post
I have bought into the statement that, in business, your income has a lot to do with the VALUE you provide to your customer.

I'm wondering if the same applies to a Trading Business???

Do you feel like you are providing value when you click the mouse to enter and exit a trade?

If I am not trading someone else's money - Is there any Value in trading?

If you are not trading someone else's money then you are trading your own. You are still working for a business whether its yours or someone else's. As a trader, you provide value by recognizing when it makes sense to buy, sell and most importantly, stay on the sidelines.

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  #19 (permalink)
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Barnacle Bill View Post
Thanks for your response!

I don't disagree with what you are saying but who or what is it providing value to?

You?
The Market?
Your Business?
Your Family?

Who or what is receiving value and does that knowledge help you in your trading or is it not a factor?

I believe many traders struggle because they have conflicting values when it comes to trading.

Does it help you to know that you are contributing in some way when you trade or is it not a factor?

Maybe it's more of a JOB - You're providing for your family and "you've got to work somewhere" or...
Maybe it's something else-

I guess I'm going a 'round about way to get to the big WHY people trade


Thanks again!

Well, it is a job. Full time. Even right now, I have my screens up and I have an open position in 3 markets. I trade for a living just like I wrote software before for a living. As a trader, I provide value to my employer the same way I provided value to my employer before when I wrote software. In both cases I have worked for myself and a corporation. But in terms of what I bring to the table, it makes no difference.

I dont have any conflict regarding what I do and neither do any of the traders I work with. We do what we do to make money.

Traders struggle because of many reasons but I dont think conflicting values is one of them. The biggest reason for failure I believe is their inability to take risk. Everyone wants predictable results and certainty in trading when in reality, trading results are very asymmetrical.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Barnacle Bill View Post



Why are you trading?

And Why choose Trading... - Why not choose construction or computers or whatever




In my construction job I get up at 4:30 am then travel to the job site, then work 10 hours, then travel home. I get home around 5:45 at night. I don't enjoy it anymore. It's now just a job whereas previously it used to be a passion.

I think most people want to do something different for fulfilment. I used to love my job. I was pretty much married to it for a long time. Now I want something that I enjoy doing to make money, instead of something I do because I'm good at it and it's what I've done for the last 15+ years.


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