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1 losing day kills me


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1 losing day kills me

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  #1 (permalink)
JoeMich
california los angeles
 
 
Posts: 21 since Jan 2016
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Sup guys

new trader question

Just wondering does day trader. make money every single day? how many losing days you guys have in a month. how long was your longest losing strike?

I could be profitable for 4 days straight days, but if I have 1 losing day in a week. i felt really bad as a trader. I tend to stop trading when I am ahead, when I am in red, i traded a lot more because I felt like I need to have a green day.

How many losing days you guys have in a month, does a losing still bother you?

Thanks for sharing guys!!!

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  #3 (permalink)
 Itchymoku 
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JoeMich View Post
Sup guys

new trader question

Just wondering does day trader. make money every single day? how many losing days you guys have in a month. how long was your longest losing strike?

I could be profitable for 4 days straight days, but if I have 1 losing day in a week. i felt really bad as a trader. I tend to stop trading when I am ahead, when I am in red, i traded a lot more because I felt like I need to have a green day.

How many losing days you guys have in a month, does a losing still bother you?

Thanks for sharing guys!!!

A losing day is similar to a losing trade, It doesn't feel good. Losing day after day is what really decapitates the ego, especially after you've found a system and have done all the legwork to get it live.

From a mathematical standpoint you can calculate the odds of having a losing day if you have a finite amount of losing trades before you stop for the day and your average accuracy percentage. Most profitable traders have a losing day somewhat frequently. If they trade everyday, they'll probably have at least one losing day a week.

Don't think it won't ever happen to you. Be prepared for it to happen and how to limit it. These types of days will determine the outcome of your career. If you find yourself continually shorting an uptrend, or going long in chop, you'll need to ask yourself if you're trading to make money, or throwing money at the market for the sake of trading.

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  #4 (permalink)
JoeMich
california los angeles
 
 
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Itchymoku View Post
A losing day is similar to a losing trade, It doesn't feel good. Losing day after day is what really decapitates the ego, especially after you've found a system and have done all the legwork to get it live.

From a mathematical standpoint you can calculate the odds of having a losing day if you have a finite amount of losing trades before you stop for the day and your average accuracy percentage. Most profitable traders have a losing day somewhat frequently. If they trade everyday, they'll probably have at least one losing day a week.

Don't think it won't ever happen to you. Be prepared for it to happen and how to limit it. These types of days will determine the outcome of your career. If you find yourself continually shorting an uptrend, or going long in chop, you'll need to ask yourself if you're trading to make money, or throwing money at the market for the sake of trading.

Thanks for sharing, after I got stopped out, I tend to get more aggressive and ended up getting chop. You mind sharing how many losing day you have in a month?

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 Itchymoku 
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JoeMich View Post
Thanks for sharing, after I got stopped out, I tend to get more aggressive and ended up getting chop. You mind sharing how many losing day you have in a month?

When you get stopped out because the trade was wrong and not just an execution error, then you should do the opposite and get less aggressive. I'd probably say about half the days I trade are losing days, but they're small and usually made up for by winning days. If I'm not feeling the market structure I'll often times even take a small loss of commission or one negative trade and do something else. I've learned not to reserve to take a set number of trades for each day because the market may not reciprocate my eagerness to cooperate.

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  #6 (permalink)
 tturner86 
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You have to get over that. Losing a day is part of the game. Heck for some traders losing weeks or months can be part of the game. The key is to ensure you have a positive expectancy.

Expectancy

The key is to ensure that over time you will be profitable. The timeframe doesn't matter. Whether it is individual trades all the way up to a complete career (20+ yrs).

Being afraid to take a losing day can cause you to compound the loss by trying to dig yourself out. Key for me is to have a daily stop loss. At that point the day is over move on. In the beginning it was tough but over time that has really worked out for the best.

You have two kinds of capital when it comes to trading. Cash and Mental. Cash can be replenished. Mental, not so much. Take too many big hits, blow out the account too many times, etc etc and you can drain that mental capital and may never be able to recover and successfully trade.

The best trading systems have plans for wins and plans for loses. Key is to have a tested system and to stick to those plans.

Also remember there is always tomorrow. The market will always be there. Unless you destroy the account today.

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  #7 (permalink)
JoeMich
california los angeles
 
 
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tturner86 View Post
You have to get over that. Losing a day is part of the game. Heck for some traders losing weeks or months can be part of the game. The key is to ensure you have a positive expectancy.

Expectancy

The key is to ensure that over time you will be profitable. The timeframe doesn't matter. Whether it is individual trades all the way up to a complete career (20+ yrs).

Being afraid to take a losing day can cause you to compound the loss by trying to dig yourself out. Key for me is to have a daily stop loss. At that point the day is over move on. In the beginning it was tough but over time that has really worked out for the best.

You have two kinds of capital when it comes to trading. Cash and Mental. Cash can be replenished. Mental, not so much. Take too many big hits, blow out the account too many times, etc etc and you can drain that mental capital and may never be able to recover and successfully trade.

The best trading systems have plans for wins and plans for loses. Key is to have a tested system and to stick to those plans.

Also remember there is always tomorrow. The market will always be there. Unless you destroy the account today.

Good advise, May I know on average how many points you would profit from ES? Is your daily stop loss bigger than your average win?

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 Tymbeline 
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JoeMich View Post
I could be profitable for 4 days straight days, but if I have 1 losing day in a week. i felt really bad as a trader.


This makes me wonder whether you're losing more, on average, on your losing days, than you're winning on your winning days? If not, I'd be happy with that, I think.



JoeMich View Post
I tend to stop trading when I am ahead


I know that you're by no means alone, there, though I admit I never quite understand this perspective.

It always seems to me that once one has one's edge, one should simply be trying to apply it to the market as frequently as possible, within one's trading hours?



JoeMich View Post
Just wondering does day trader. make money every single day? how many losing days you guys have in a month. how long was your longest losing strike?


It all depends on one's trade-frequency, win-rate and expectancy, doesn't it?

I don't trade every day, but take an average of 7-8 trades per day on the days I do trade, and the majority of my trades make very small profits, with occasional bigger wins of partial trades after locking in small profits, and very occasional losses, so I have few losing days, now. I sometimes wonder whether I'd do better, overall, with more losing days, actually, but it's hard to quantify.

Losing still bothers me, because I'm very risk-averse.

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  #9 (permalink)
JoeMich
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Tymbeline View Post
This makes me wonder whether you're losing more, on average, on your losing days, than you're winning on your winning days? If not, I'd be happy with that, I think.





I know that you're by no means alone, there, though I admit I never quite understand this perspective.

It always seems to me that once one has one's edge, one should simply be trying to apply it to the market as frequently as possible, within one's trading hours?





It all depends on one's trade-frequency, win-rate and expectancy, doesn't it?

I don't trade every day, but take an average of 7-8 trades per day on the days I do trade, and the majority of my trades make very small profits, with occasional bigger wins of partial trades after locking in small profits, and very occasional losses, so I have few losing days, now. I sometimes wonder whether I'd do better, overall, with more losing days, actually, but it's hard to quantify.

Losing still bothers me, because I'm very risk-averse.

Thanks for the comment. Yes, on my losing day, i lose a lot more than my average winning day. I had times where I have no losing day in weeks, but when I am wrong one day, I push alot harder and overtrade which is what kills me. sometimes this kind of mentality carry to the next day. very frustrating. Sometimes I think my winning days is because I stop trading while I am ahead, I average 2-4 points a day in ES. my stop is at most 2 points for each trade. is my profit in my winning days too low?

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 Tymbeline 
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JoeMich View Post
Sometimes I think my winning days is because I stop trading while I am ahead


I hear you. I'm wondering (and I suspect that you're wondering?) whether you're really trading a system/method that actually has a proven edge?

The point being that if you're not, but it's just a system/method which fluctuates frequently between winning and losing, it's hardly going to be a recipe for success to try to make it profitable by trying to stop, each day, at some point when it happens to be ahead. That will work, perhaps, briefly, to some extent, on the days when it goes positive at some point, but in the long run that's going to "find you out".

Everything starts from having a system/method that has a proven edge in the first place.



JoeMich View Post
is my profit in my winning days too low?


It's difficult to say more, without analysing detailed results - and a statistically significant number of them.

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jaytrades
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If you can duplicate the winning days, then your method may be sound as long as you have a plan and are consistent with it on the up days.

If you are looking at your pnl and feeling pride in having a winning streak, then you are investing emotional capital in your statistics.

If you work too hard to fix a day that begins with a loss, then you are not trading to accumulate the capital from your winning days, but you are trading to feel pride in your statistics of having a streak of up days in your pnl.

The fact is that you will have a bad day, so when you determine today is starting bad, then stop entering the market and do other trading work so you feel like a trader but you are saving your capital for a better trading day.

...and finally, analyze everything you can think of in your journal so you might find clues as to what is different about you on your good days vs your bad days.

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 SBtrader82 
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Tymbeline View Post
I don't trade every day, but take an average of 7-8 trades per day on the days I do trade, and the majority of my trades make very small profits, with occasional bigger wins of partial trades after locking in small profits, and very occasional losses, so I have few losing days, now. I sometimes wonder whether I'd do better, overall, with more losing days, actually, but it's hard to quantify.

Losing still bothers me, because I'm very risk-averse.

For what you say, I think that the problem you have is that you just scalp some 100USD here and there.... I went through that phase and it's a nonsense. In the best scenario you break even, or get eaten by commissions.

Focus on the analysis, put a bigger sto loss and only make operations that have some wide vision. You want see the wood not he trees. There are two ways to trade:

1) scalping: If you scalp you must have a high win rate and little losses.... but then you make money with size and precision. You work with 10 contract or more, if you go for a win of 5/8 ticks in the ES it's 600 USD per winning trade, and maybe you risk just a couple of ticks. This is doable, but you must be very technical, it's very very for experts.... usually people do it on Treasuries

2) day trading: you put on a position with smaller size and wider Stops, if you focus on strategy you can make some nice money. I had 5K days with just 3 contracts, it's doable. But.... you must focus on strategy. I don't know your level of understanding on the markets, but there are really asymetric oportunities.

I am always fighting to stay in the second option..... but sometime you see an oportunity to make some "easy" dollars with a quick scalp and it's irresistible.
Anyway....I always found that in 1) the trees don't let you see the wood.

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