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growing account vs. withdrawing profits
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growing account vs. withdrawing profits

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Santa Monica, California/USA
 
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growing account vs. withdrawing profits

Some background: I've been a profitable trader, scalping the /ES for several months. 2016 YTD I have a 92% probability of profit averaging ~44pts a day. I typically trade 5 to 15 contracts at a time, depending on strengths of moves and some indicators and calculations I utilize.

Question: I have a, in my opinion, decent account size - enough to place appropriate trades with 5-15 contracts with enough account size to hold those positions overnight (though I've never done that before, and don't plan to either).

With futures do most people work to increase their account size so they can trade with larger positions, and thereby increasing profits, or is the more common practices to withdraw funds every X days/monthly and work with the same size account?

I'd appreciate some feedback, or links to relevant threads and responses.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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TheBouncyTrader View Post
Some background: I've been a profitable trader, scalping the /ES for several months. 2016 YTD I have a 92% probability of profit averaging ~44pts a day. I typically trade 5 to 15 contracts at a time, depending on strengths of moves and some indicators and calculations I utilize.

Question: I have a, in my opinion, decent account size - enough to place appropriate trades with 5-15 contracts with enough account size to hold those positions overnight (though I've never done that before, and don't plan to either).

With futures do most people work to increase their account size so they can trade with larger positions, and thereby increasing profits, or is the more common practices to withdraw funds every X days/monthly and work with the same size account?

I'd appreciate some feedback, or links to relevant threads and responses.

Can't help you with the withdrawing vs increasing account size issue, but out of pure curiosity is that 44pts a day based on making 44pts x number of contracts or for example, making 11 pts on 4 contracts and calling that 44pts?

Either way, keep doing what is working for you and keep pushing it.

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  #4 (permalink)
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TheTradeSlinger View Post
Can't help you with the withdrawing vs increasing account size issue, but out of pure curiosity is that 44pts a day based on making 44pts x number of contracts or for example, making 11 pts on 4 contracts and calling that 44pts?

Either way, keep doing what is working for you and keep pushing it.

Total points, so daily profit --> pts*4*12.5.

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  #5 (permalink)
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First off, congrats on finding success.

A few things to consider:

A) How scale able is your strategy? For example, if you end up finding that trading 100-150 contracts at once for the same scalping strategy is the optimal size before your own stops start becoming hunted, AND you don't feel as if you need to generate more profits, then maybe you stop scaling.

B) Are you concerned about brokers going broke and losing your capital or having your capital locked up while assets are unwound with a bankrupt broker? Imagine having your prime account with Lehman, or even the retail PFG's of the world. If you only need $100k of capital to property trade your margin requirements comfortably, then maybe hold the rest in secure banks until you need it, just to prevent all of your hard work from being gambled away by some rogue trader.

If you need to top up your account to be fully capitalized, just drop it back into your brokerage account. Good protection against black swans of all types, except the nuclear war type, but in that scenario, your brokerage account is probably the least of your worries.

C) What is your wealth building strategy? The classic pay yourself first comes to mind to make sure that you are actually building liquid, cash net work which is not at risk. Whatever that payment rate is after your own living expenses, make sure that get's drawn out of the account.

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  #6 (permalink)
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TheBouncyTrader View Post
With futures do most people work to increase their account size so they can trade with larger positions, and thereby increasing profits, or is the more common practices to withdraw funds every X days/monthly and work with the same size account?

I think it's all terribly subjective and depends on (a) your account-size and (b) your personal financial circumstances, among other factors?

Personally, because I more or less need it to live on comfortably and conveniently, I withdraw a proportion of profit monthly (unless I've had a losing month, but that's mercifully rare as I'm not far off being a scalper and my trading-style is to accumulate smallish profits very frequently). I always leave a minimum of one third of each month's profits there, and sometimes as much as two thirds, to grow the account too - however gradually. If my non-trading income were higher, I'd probably try to leave more in the account and grow it more quickly. I currently trade 3-4 lots/contracts and would like to increase that, but not at the cost of "living on credit-cards".

Other than the very valid observations in the post immediately above this one, I don't think there are "right answers" to this question: it necessarily depends on your personal circumstances?

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  #7 (permalink)
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I trade stocks.

When I day traded I swept the cash out of the account daily. When I had a losing day I did not add cash and did not with draw until I got back to my minimum capital.

Now swing trading and withdraw cash at the end of any day that I have more than my minimum capital.

This method keeps me aware of how important preserving my capital is.

It is hard to find the Truth when you start your search with a preconceived notion of what the Truth will be.
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  #8 (permalink)
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Really 44 points a day?????
I thought even specialists average 20 points in a week.......
12.5x4x44=2200
2200x5=11000
2200x15=33000
$11,000-$33,000 a DAY WHAT???

If this is true, please tech me sensei. I will be your slave. =]


Last edited by emptymind; February 15th, 2016 at 04:07 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)
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emptymind View Post
Really 44 points a day?????
I thought even specialists average 20 points in a week.......
12.5x4x44=2200
2200x5=11000
2200x15=33000
$11,000-$33,000 a DAY WHAT???

If this is true, please tech me sensei. I will be your slave. =]

Lmao I was going to say the same thing

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  #10 (permalink)
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TheBouncyTrader View Post
Some background: I've been a profitable trader, scalping the /ES for several months. 2016 YTD I have a 92% probability of profit averaging ~44pts a day. I typically trade 5 to 15 contracts at a time, depending on strengths of moves and some indicators and calculations I utilize.

Question: I have a, in my opinion, decent account size - enough to place appropriate trades with 5-15 contracts with enough account size to hold those positions overnight (though I've never done that before, and don't plan to either).

With futures do most people work to increase their account size so they can trade with larger positions, and thereby increasing profits, or is the more common practices to withdraw funds every X days/monthly and work with the same size account?

I'd appreciate some feedback, or links to relevant threads and responses.

Do u use intera market correlations and fundamental to make intraday decision or just order flow profile price and volume?

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