ES Mini Stop Loss and Exit price input - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


ES Mini Stop Loss and Exit price input
Updated: Views / Replies:1,316 / 11
Created: by Jdesey Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

ES Mini Stop Loss and Exit price input

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Camarillo CA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 3 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

ES Mini Stop Loss and Exit price input

I have searched for this and did not come up with a solid answer... I only trade ES Mini... I seem to struggle with my stops. I like trailing stops cause it is robotic, set it and let the trade take me out. But how wide? it seems to me lately the number is 2 points/8 ticks... one thing this forces me to do is keep losses manageable, but let my winners run... I have had a tendency to take profits too early...

anyone who trades the ES have input? what do you do for Stop loss and exit price

Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,220 received


Get out of the trade when the trade is no longer valid.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Other
Favorite Futures: ES, YM, 6E
 
Posts: 2,641 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 4,898 given, 6,428 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Answer
This post has been selected as an answer to the original posters question Answer


Jdesey View Post
it seems to me lately the number is 2 points/8 ticks...

To use an ES stop of only 2p, you are either a) trying to scalp the market or you b) have an absolutely
precise anticipation of each move the market will make. Chances of b) are low for most of us.

Find out what the average move of the ES for your trade periods is (mean, standard deviation etc.).
By doing that, you will find a distribution of noise - an area where your stops regularly will be triggered
"without any reason" just because markets tend to fluctuate. Since stops within the noise area aren't
a good idea: Pass these trades or close the position because normal probabilities show that the market
will close it for you anyway most of the time.

That said, choose meaningful stops outside of the noise. "Meaningful" means: stops that are founded
in market/price action, not in anything that you want to impose on the market externally - as the market
gives a s**t about what we want it to do


Last edited by choke35; August 19th, 2015 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to choke35 for this post:
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Leeds UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FXTrade
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers, CapitalSpreads, Oanda
Favorite Futures: GBP/USD
 
Tymbeline's Avatar
 
Posts: 401 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 894 given, 486 received


Jdesey View Post
I like trailing stops cause it is robotic

Superficially, it can look attractive.

In reality it can lose a lot of money, because of all the times that the price initially moves in your favour (and the trailing stop with it), then retraces just enough to take out the trailing stop before continuing in "your" direction and reaching your target.

For myself, before using trailing stops I'd want to see irrefutable evidence, proven over a few hundred trades with/without, that the system/method actually makes more overall profit with them than without them. I've looked and I still do, but I've never found that before. Perhaps there'll be a first time but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

I want to exit trades when the price developments since my entry have shown that the entry was invalid, i.e. that I no longer want to be in the trade. I can't do that reliably enough, myself, with trailing stops.

Reply With Quote
 
  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sydney, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, IRESS
Broker/Data: IB, IQFeed
Favorite Futures: ES, SPI, ASX stocks, options
 
Posts: 399 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 169 given, 446 received


Jdesey View Post
I have searched for this and did not come up with a solid answer... I only trade ES Mini... I seem to struggle with my stops. I like trailing stops cause it is robotic, set it and let the trade take me out. But how wide? it seems to me lately the number is 2 points/8 ticks... one thing this forces me to do is keep losses manageable, but let my winners run... I have had a tendency to take profits too early...

anyone who trades the ES have input? what do you do for Stop loss and exit price

Trailing stops is lazy... You'll catch a couple of big runners once in a while that you can tell your friends about but they won't pay for all the ticks you'll lose getting stopped out from a trail, just use targets.

If you give up 2 points every trade thanks to your trail, it stands to reason after 10 trades you are already behind by 20 points versus someone who used a target instead. You would have to catch an additional 20 points from one or more big trends within those 10 trades to have a better outcome.

Trails only work in really trendy markets, ES is not one of them.

Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Every Day I'm a n00b
San Tan Valley, AZ/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: IB, Tallinex, & 10 others.
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
FABRICATORX's Avatar
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 693 given, 160 received

A friend is an algo/HFT trader, one whom I have been learning under. He says that his methods for stops are simply minor/major s/r levels, or something to that effect.

Exits are a different strategy though. He claims he has massive, elaborate (yet fast) mm algos that determine exits and scaling. Listening to him is like listening to @Big Mike, "always scale, in and out; always."

These algos are dynamic, without fixed parameters, that are based on many metrics. They are constantly changing, and context that made a trade valid 10 minutes ago may not be valid right this second.

Now understand that your brain is like this. So the trade will be sustained as long as the parameters are all valid, which depend on one another to maintain validity. If one goes out of skew, and you see a trade setup, do you take it? What would the algo do?

Here's a scenario - Imaging you're outside, playing football in the street with your friends. Several things must be aligned before you throw the ball: there are no cars coming, you actually have someone to catch the ball, the sun is shining, there is little wind, the weather is clear, it's not snowing, it's not a dust storm, there are no mosquitoes out, etc.

If all the conditions are right, you definitely go out and play. Maybe you can play with a few adverse conditions, but they limit your fun. If a car starts coming, you definitely get out of the way (FOMC anyone?). If it starts hailing golf balls, you get out of the way. Start getting picked off by bugs, you go back inside and unload some cortisone cream.

Being flexible in your trading doesn't mean fudging your rules, it's knowing that the rules are never constant, so you merely flow with them.

Short version is beautifully simple, as Mike drives into my head every time I read his wisdom; exit the trade when it's no longer valid.

-Jimmy
Reply With Quote
 
  #8 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Amherst
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Trader
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 30 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 2 given, 15 received


FABRICATORX View Post
Now understand that your brain is like this.

The problem is your brain is fundamentally flawed when it comes to dealing with stochastic events like this. The best example is from Thinking, Fast and Slow by Kahneman:

3 sets of the sex of six babies born in sequence at a hospital:

B B B B B B

G G G G G G

B G G B G B

What one is more likely?

If you take this to 8 ticks, it doesn't matter at all about context because context in that scenario is just your brain creating narrative that doesn't exist in the same way it despises that all 3 of those events above are equally likely.

Reply With Quote
 
  #9 (permalink)
Every Day I'm a n00b
San Tan Valley, AZ/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: IB, Tallinex, & 10 others.
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
FABRICATORX's Avatar
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 693 given, 160 received

I get that, read the book, etc...but what's your point in regards to my point? I was implying that your brain is taking multiple streams of data, and makes a decision of validity based on all of those.

I'm actually a big fan of algo trading because of our cognitive faults in something that requires comfort with randomness.

-Jimmy
Reply With Quote
 
  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Calgary Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 23 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 10 given, 13 received

K.I.S.S.


Review Wyckoffs' work on price movement. The answer to your question will become self apparent when you note that wyckoff traded using point and figure (traditional type, not ATR) charts taking into account inflections of $1, $3, and $10. Lateral areas of multiple x's reveal balance points, vertical manage your risk.

And stay away from "mean reversion"...very few can identify any valid mean in the moment.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > ES Mini Stop Loss and Exit price input

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When a stop loss order is filled beyond limit price Big Mike Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 56 September 15th, 2015 10:01 AM
ES stop loss fills stefan416 Emini Index Futures Trading 28 August 30th, 2015 01:02 AM
Fee's For Stop Loss / Trailing Stop rkersh409 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 3 May 29th, 2014 05:15 PM
Ninjatrader strategy for Trailing Stop and stop loss. skann NinjaTrader 2 August 20th, 2013 08:34 PM
Gom volume/Price anomoly??Input please deercreek NinjaTrader 4 May 23rd, 2011 12:46 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-12 in 0.15 seconds with 37 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.163.209.109