Primary source of income: how many have made it?

November 14th, 2011, 11:36 PM

Init

well, I can tell that both of you(last 2 posts) make money because it sounds like you stick to your R/R.
As for me, The last big loss was me being pigheaded about my view of the longterm trend. (I was playing 1000 to 1500 point dow moves) and in the past, I never needed to have a stop. But that was the best thing that ever happened to me. I wouldnt take the money back for nothing. Cause when I get slapped like that, It drives me on mission to make sure it never happens again.

Ohhhh that sounds so familiar in one day of my trading when i have turned around

. Not sure if this is the right place to discuss the specific of one's methods, if you wish i am happy to start the thread and we can compare the notes, i do as well trade Dow, FTSE 100, ASX 200, and DAX, as currencies. Would be very keen to discuss the approaches. I'll get my plan and setups up and start the thread if you wish to discuss further.

November 14th, 2011, 11:48 PM

JSTNBRG,

I agree with you on both.

I agree weekly goals can have the same effect as daily goals but the disadvantage is less likely on a longer time frame, that's all.. Its possible that you can meet your monthly goals with 1 good week or your annual goals with one good month, but would you stop trading the rest of the month or year? I wouldn't, but I may become choosier on the days I trade.. On the other hand, I may take a lot less trades or trade smaller when the R/R don't look as attractive.. Those are days to trade smaller and less often.. Other days, you may want to increase your size and even frequency.. Approaching it this way will only increase your edge..

Everyone achieves their edge in a slightly different way.. For the trader whose performance will be reduced after the morning, its part of his edge to reduce his trading during those times.. Its much like the tennis player that has a great forhand and a weak backhand.. Its to his advantage to run around his backhand whenver possible to hit his forhand... He should do it every opportunity he gets..

Every little edge in every aspect of trading all adds up to your total performance.. For those that play blackjack and count cards, how much of an edge do they really have?

November 15th, 2011, 12:02 AM

Init

well, I can tell that both of you(last 2 posts) make money because it sounds like you stick to your R/R.
As for me, The last big loss was me being pigheaded about my view of the longterm trend. (I was playing 1000 to 1500 point dow moves) and in the past, I never needed to have a stop. But that was the best thing that ever happened to me. I wouldnt take the money back for nothing. Cause when I get slapped like that, It drives me on mission to make sure it never happens again.
I had never been a good daytrader because I am so emotional. Thats why that longer term system worked for me because I wanted to be wrong on my first three scale in's. Even if I was way off, I knew I could short in other accounts. But I was down 250 untill I added more and Got too exited when the dow fell off a cliff in march.
When I trade these type positions, My profit target is about 400-600. I call these my retirement trades.
But its a whole new ball game now. In the last 4 months, I got back 50 by daytrading, using the same strategy but this time I added my mental stops. I learned how to identify swing highs and lows with at least an 80% probability.
So I just short (it has to qualify) the retest of swing high on lower vol. (sometimes it takes 3 trys) (even on up days) and according to vol action is how I scale out. On these 20point es ranges, I usually get 3-12 points
I have also been listening to the S&P pit on squawk because it allows me to feel the action and tell when the breakouts are real (at tops and bottoms)
I would be glad to share specifics with you, because some of them make up the majority of my gains.
I would like to hear your general methodology also.
I would never criticize anyone, but I URGE people to pick mine apart, I believe strongly in opposing opinions because If I cant justify EVERYTHING I do to be the absolute best, I'm not going to do it.
Thanks

Actually, I have not made significant money trading on the screen (and I haven't traded at all the past 6 months because I'm too busy being a general contractor renovating my summer home, too many distractions to trade). I made enough in 16 years in the pit to set me up comfortably for life, and really I'm most interested in making sure I don't do something dumb and blow it. Though there is something to be said for being hungry...

One thing to consider with the large trades you're making: the flash crash. The flash crash showed us that the new technology we are all using to trade is not well understood or reliable. It taught me that using stop market orders is out of the question on ANY trade. If I were you, trading in size for large directional moves, I'd look at using options instead of futures or stocks, in particular deep in the money options. I see two benefits and one or two costs to trading this way. The first benefit is obvious: your risk is limited to the premium you pay, and on a deep in the money option the time value of that premium should be small. The second benefit is that the directional risk reward on an option is not symmetric; the more in the money an option becomes, the closer the delta of that option is to 1 (that is, the more closely the option moves tick for tick with the underlying instrument). The advantage here is that if the position moves against you, and the option becomes less in-the-money, the option will move less against you than the underlying instrument.. (I'm assuming you are long calls or long puts). The largest disadvantage to buying options is that the time value of the option decays the longer you hold the option. A potential disadvantage to trading deep in the money options is that they may be less liquid than at the money options; it seems like most of the action and liquidity takes place at strike prices near the current market price.

November 15th, 2011, 12:16 AM

That is exactly what i'm talking about. That Is probably the biggest edge any trader can have. but hardly no one uses it. "Position sizing"
When all your things line up and you you thought that price had left you behind from that double bottom that you missed, then it comes back down and hugs the low a third time on trickle vol, you say, come on, break the low. Then it breaks and your looking for that fake break. the tape speeds on the bounce with big blocks, You put all you can handle on.
Thats the edge, not an indicator(too laggy for me)

And yes, I would like you to start that thread. But try to name it something catchy like, My trading secrets or whatever.
Dont worry about people taking your ideas, because thats why 90% lose money. They all know what they should do, They just cant.
Every time I give something away for free, it always comes back
Thanks

November 15th, 2011, 12:29 AM

Position sizing is a definite edge given that you already have an edge in the other aspects of trading.. In trading, no matter how strong each individual link is, the chain will always break at its weakest link..

November 15th, 2011, 12:31 AM

Init

And yes, I would like you to start that thread. But try to name it something catchy like, My trading secrets or whatever.
Dont worry about people taking your ideas, because thats why 90% lose money. They all know what they should do, They just cant.
Every time I give something away for free, it always comes back
Thanks

I am not worried about giving away stuff for free, that is why we are all here, i've got a lot of help from those forums and am happy to give back. I dont care if people like it or not, if discussion is constructive i will listen to it, otherwise i can quite easily ignore it

Will get something started tonight and let you know the name of the trade, i might actually start trading journal... that might be more effective...

November 15th, 2011, 12:39 AM

jstnbrg

Actually, I have not made significant money trading on the screen (and I haven't traded at all the past 6 months because I'm too busy being a general contractor renovating my summer home, too many distractions to trade). I made enough in 16 years in the pit to set me up comfortably for life, and really I'm most interested in making sure I don't do something dumb and blow it. Though there is something to be said for being hungry...

One thing to consider with the large trades you're making: the flash crash. The flash crash showed us that the new technology we are all using to trade is not well understood or reliable. I taught me that using stop market orders is out of the question on ANY trade. If I were you, trading in size for large directional moves, I'd look at using options instead of futures or stocks, in particular deep in the money options. I see two benefits and one or two costs to trading this way. The first benefit is obvious: your risk is limited to the premium you pay, and on a deep in the money option the time value of that premium should be small. The second benefit is that the directional risk reward on an option is not symmetric; the more in the money an option becomes, the closer the delta of that option is to 1 (that is, the more closely the option moves tick for tick with the underlying instrument). The advantage here is that if the position moves against you, and the option becomes less in-the-money, the option will move less against you than the underlying instrument.. (I'm assuming you are long calls or long puts). The largest disadvantage to buying options is that the time value of the option decays the longer you hold the option. A potential disadvantage to trading deep in the money options is that they may be less liquid than at the money options; it seems like most of the action and liquidity takes place at strike prices near the current market price.

Thats the one of many crazy things about me. Things like the flash crash is what My main reason is for keeping a large short position on in the core account. Thats all i've done for years is go "short only". During the flash crash I was short but out in town. When I heard it on XM, I raced back to cover and it had bounced 300 points. Im short right now and down 30k and hoping we get a final blowoff top so i can load up. I'm not doing it blind, I have very reliable reasons. Plus i'm hedged good with gold
It sounds like your set, I would just have fun with it then. As long as you know that hobbies cost you money, and this is an expensive hobby.

November 15th, 2011, 12:52 AM

sinisa

I am not worried about giving away stuff for free, that is why we are all here, i've got a lot of help from those forums and am happy to give back. I dont care if people like it or not, if discussion is constructive i will listen to it, otherwise i can quite easily ignore it

Will get something started tonight and let you know the name of the trade, i might actually start trading journal... that might be more effective...

That sounds good, but tell me where its located. I know nothing about chat rooms, forums or hardly anything program related. These are the first times I've ever talked to anyone about trading. Always been by myself. I'm going to try to figure out how to put a picture up sometime.

November 15th, 2011, 01:41 AM

jstnbrg

Actually, I have not made significant money trading on the screen (and I haven't traded at all the past 6 months because I'm too busy being a general contractor renovating my summer home, too many distractions to trade). I made enough in 16 years in the pit to set me up comfortably for life, and really I'm most interested in making sure I don't do something dumb and blow it. Though there is something to be said for being hungry...

One thing to consider with the large trades you're making: the flash crash. The flash crash showed us that the new technology we are all using to trade is not well understood or reliable. I taught me that using stop market orders is out of the question on ANY trade. If I were you, trading in size for large directional moves, I'd look at using options instead of futures or stocks, in particular deep in the money options. I see two benefits and one or two costs to trading this way. The first benefit is obvious: your risk is limited to the premium you pay, and on a deep in the money option the time value of that premium should be small. The second benefit is that the directional risk reward on an option is not symmetric; the more in the money an option becomes, the closer the delta of that option is to 1 (that is, the more closely the option moves tick for tick with the underlying instrument). The advantage here is that if the position moves against you, and the option becomes less in-the-money, the option will move less against you than the underlying instrument.. (I'm assuming you are long calls or long puts). The largest disadvantage to buying options is that the time value of the option decays the longer you hold the option. A potential disadvantage to trading deep in the money options is that they may be less liquid than at the money options; it seems like most of the action and liquidity takes place at strike prices near the current market price.

Sorry about the last post, I realized just now you meant the trading pit. they say thats its a hard transition because you dont have the energy to gauge the flow. Thats why I listen to the squawk box and use it to feel the demand at the open, last hour and at swing highs and lows. I love it, It took a while to know when to go with paper or the locals. I lean with the locals on light volume.
You could get used to screen trading, but would prob be boring for you.

November 15th, 2011, 11:46 AM

Init

You could get used to screen trading, but would prob be boring for you.

It is boring for me. That's my biggest problem.

Primary source of income: how many have made it?

Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Primary source of income: how many have made it?