The figures come from brokers, actually the figures for those that make money for more than a year are 98%/2% according to a CBOT lecture I was listening too ... and they should know.

Yes, how it works, is the professional traders, get there money from the newbies, and there is a constant supply of newbies into the market convinced by the marketing of the educators (who also feed on the newbies) that they will be able to make a living using their $5000 account. The market works by offering Hope, but not delivering what was Hoped for, that is what keeps the market moving.

The problem with making a living out of it, is the amount of capital you really need to have to handle draw downs and to give yourself the leverage you need and that's assuming you know what your doing (which takes years). When your under capitalized you have scared money, so you run tight stops and make poor decisions.

If you can make 2% per month consistantly, then you are up there with the best traders.

And no, I don't make 100K per year from trading !

There are much easier ways to make money than from trading.

This is comment is old, but the issues are timeless.

Fixation with undercapitalization is one of the most pervasive and disabling myths about trading, specifically when referring to futures markets. $5,000 is easily enough funding to not only trade with successfully, but to build wealth from, for an advanced trader. Yes, easily. The point is really this: You can pi$$ away $100,000 just as readily as $5,000; perhaps easier. You must know what you are doing. It won't matter at all what your account size is, if you don't sufficiently know what it is that you are doing.

Regarding the 2%/month comment... If you are referring to CTAs swinging billion dollar bats, sure, but what we are concerned with here, are individual traders with comparatively small accounts. Let's call such traders micro traders. Micro traders, by virtue of their account size, are afforded nimbleness, and also cannot, at any serious level, affect the market in which they trade. The micro trader is not bound by liquidity concerns in the same way CTAs are, and a micro trader's gains are not softened by their impact on their market.

The takeaways are these:

1) You need an account that is just a few times larger than the margin requirement for your market. The exact amount is dictated by your trading style, obviously.

2) You need to be aware of your market's offer in ticks. Hint: It's much greater than the ATR or ADR values. For example, the NQ, of which requires only $500 in intraday margin (sometimes less), offered approximately 4,200 ticks of potential profit yesterday, Friday, August 5th, 2011. How much money that is? It's roughly $21,000 per contract. Of course nobody expects to take all or even most of that potential, but then, if astute, one should discern quickly that they don't need to.

3) Micro traders need to set a course to take a percentage of that offer, which incidentally, if modest, will still net them substantially more than the 2%/month figure. Revisiting NQ from yesterday, taking just 1% of the ticks offered, or ~ 42 ticks, would net a micro trader ~ $840 before costs. Such a return would equate to a ~ 68% return on margin. That's one trading day. Of course, most micro traders do not calculate their returns on required margin, so let's calibrate to accommodate. Assuming the trader allots 4x the necessary margin intraday, the ROI is still an impressive ~ 17%, before costs. Sounds crazy? It isn't. I won't assert specifically what is possible, since it might stir the nest, but a micro trader can take much more than 1% of their market's intraday offer, all without disproportionally high risk.

4) Drawdowns are not necessary. Of course there will be losses and washes intraday, but with a logical methodology, interday, and certainly interweek losses, are unnecessary. If you are experiencing them, your method isn't, or you simply are not good enough.

This leads me back to my emerging futures.io (formerly BMT) theme: Forget the conventional wisdom. Think for yourselves. Save the time.

Fixation with undercapitalization is one of the most pervasive and disabling myths about trading, specifically when referring to futures markets. $5,000 is easily enough funding to not only trade with successfully, but to build wealth from, for an advanced trader.

The Truth is that not one person on this futures.io (formerly BMT) is willing to produce anything that proves they have made it. However they are all willing to make indicators, and write their journals, and "join the elite" team. And those same people will defend themselves by saying " I do not have to prove anything to you"! Well, ok, I guess ya don't. But then dont say you make your living from trading, that's pretty generic. I mean come on, your making your living from trading, and your hanging around here? That doesn't even sound right, Come on....!!!

The truth is that all the people who sell programs, and systems and on and on, have figured it out. Big Mike himself has figured it out. They have figured out how to make money from trading, TEACH IT, write about it, talk about it, make indicators for it, write journals for it, do everything under the sun except actually make money from it. The Bible says their is "Nothing new under the sun" and thats true here too.


Why is it that we see this same question? "Can a trader make it " Why is that? It's because no one is making it, and everyone is experiencing the exact same thing. You know why you do not find a person willing to prove it, because would you, if you had it! No..no you wouldnt, and their is no man or woman that is making a living trading sitting at their computer on a Sunday night or whatever night for that matter, scrolling through futures.io (formerly BMT) website.

Thats the truth.

As mentioned in my intro earlier, I am now into Year 14 of trading for a living. Why do I hang around in forums? I don't. I pop in and skim briskly through a handful of posts every week or two, if and when I feel like doing so.

Because despite having 'made it' I am still always learning a new point or two from others, and never too smug to do so. And because personal case histories in forums of this type were a very significant factor in providing me with self belief in my own early years. If I can return the favour by pointing out that success is achievable, I am happy to do so. I have nothing to sell or promote.

If a few people scoff at what I write or dismiss it as fantasy, so be it. I am not discouraged. It's water off a duck's back.

In forums such as this, people normally write under the guise of a username - so fantasising is perfectly possible. But over the years I have met with several forum traders who I now count as friends out there in the real world.We know each other well enough to exchange details of how we trade. So yes, Skyfly, we do exist - but you are of course perfectly entitled to disbelieve if you want - and I take no offence at you doing so.

How would you describe you style of trading? As a veteran in this business, it's good to know what approaches can stand the test of time.

I guess I would describe my style as opportunistic. "Get in, grab it, get out; don't still be there when the roof falls in."


I appreciate that some countries do not allow spreadbets on stocks and indices, but here in the UK they are quite widely used in preference to actually buying stock.

I don't employ fancy indicators or sophisticated software - I merely climb aboard what's moving and jump off when it isn't going my way. I don't study company accounts attempting to calculate value - I just play the price movement and keep in touch with related news that might affect it.

I would assume that the US Does NOT allow Spread Bets with stocks. Is this correct?

This is comment is old, but the issues are timeless.

Fixation with undercapitalization is one of the most pervasive and disabling myths about trading, specifically when referring to futures markets. $5,000 is easily enough funding to not only trade with successfully, but to build wealth from, for an advanced trader. Yes, easily. The point is really this: You can pi$$ away $100,000 just as readily as $5,000; perhaps easier. You must know what you are doing. It won't matter at all what your account size is, if you don't sufficiently know what it is that you are doing.

Regarding the 2%/month comment... If you are referring to CTAs swinging billion dollar bats, sure, but what we are concerned with here, are individual traders with comparatively small accounts. Let's call such traders micro traders. Micro traders, by virtue of their account size, are afforded nimbleness, and also cannot, at any serious level, affect the market in which they trade. The micro trader is not bound by liquidity concerns in the same way CTAs are, and a micro trader's gains are not softened by their impact on their market.

The takeaways are these:

1) You need an account that is just a few times larger than the margin requirement for your market. The exact amount is dictated by your trading style, obviously.

2) You need to be aware of your market offers in ticks. Hint: It's much greater than the ATR or ADR values. For example, the NQ, of which requires only $500 in intraday margin (sometimes less), offered approximately 4,200 ticks of potential profit yesterday, Friday, August 5th, 2011. How much money is that? It's roughly $21,000 per contract. Of course nobody expects to take all or even most of that potential, but then, if astute, one should discern quickly that they don't need to.

3) Micro traders need to set a course to take a percentage of that offer, which incidentally, if modest, will still net them substantially more than the 2%/month figure. Revisiting NQ from yesterday, taking just 1% of the ticks offered, or ~ 42 ticks, would net a micro trader ~ $840 before costs. Such a return would equate to a ~ 68% return on margin. That's one trading day. Of course, most micro traders do not calculate their returns on required margin, so let's calibrate to accommodate. Assuming the micro trader allots 4x the necessary margin intraday, the ROI is still an impressive ~ 17%, before costs. Sounds crazy? It isn't. I won't assert specifically what is possible, since it might stir the nest, but a micro trader can take much more than 1% of their market's intraday offer, all without disproportionally high risk.

4) Drawdowns are not necessary. Of course there will be losses and washes intraday, but with a logical methodology, interday, and certainly interweek losses, are unnecessary. If you are experiencing them, your method isn't, or you simply are not good enough.

This leads me back to my emerging futures.io (formerly BMT) theme: Forget the conventional wisdom. Think for yourselves. Save the time.

The Truth is that not one person on this futures.io (formerly BMT) is willing to produce anything that proves they have made it. However they are all willing to make indicators, and write their journals, and "join the elite" team. And those same people will defend themselves by saying " I do not have to prove anything to you"! Well, ok, I guess ya don't. But then dont say you make your living from trading, that's pretty generic. I mean come on, your making your living from trading, and your hanging around here? That doesn't even sound right, Come on....!!!

The truth is that all the people who sell programs, and systems and on and on, have figured it out. Big Mike himself has figured it out. They have figured out how to make money from trading, TEACH IT, write about it, talk about it, make indicators for it, write journals for it, do everything under the sun except actually make money from it. The Bible says their is "Nothing new under the sun" and thats true here too.


Why is it that we see this same question? "Can a trader make it " Why is that? It's because no one is making it, and everyone is experiencing the exact same thing. You know why you do not find a person willing to prove it, because would you, if you had it! No..no you wouldnt, and their is no man or woman that is making a living trading sitting at their computer on a Sunday night or whatever night for that matter, scrolling through futures.io (formerly BMT) website.

Thats the truth.