this thread has been going for 5 years and i have only seen about 2 people answer the SIMPLE question that was posted.
makes me wonder!!
1. Is trading your primary source of income? for now, yes (unemployed)
2. Do you make over $100k/year in trading (NO)
3. How long did you trade prior to making trading your primary source of income - or if not primary income yet, number of years trading? (been paper trading/swing trading for 5 years, unsuccessfully...recently took on day trading, lost half my account a few weeks ago, now going at it again one last time)
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The reason hardly anyone has posted is because many are loosing their accounts including myself.
After 8 years of trying this, I'm about to call it a day!
This market is simply rigged against day traders unless you can take longer term trades with a minimum of 500 pip
stops.It's simply no point in even attempting to be involved in this so called day trading pipe dream that most of us are lead to believe will give you consistent returns.
The market was NOT made for us small boys.
Unless you have insider info, you are going to struggle.
There may be traders here making money but they are but a few!!
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Could you please explain what method(s) you attempted to use while trading 8 years? It's hard to verify such statements you've made without further investigating the reason why you lost. Why would you continue after year 1 if you didn't have any signs of success. If you kept losing what would make you stay for 8 years?
R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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I did what most traders do.
I was excited when I first became a trader, then realized after some classic mistakes that this is going to take some work. (No problem with the learning curve).
After a few failed attempts, I took a break for a year and studied- read books etc.
Came back, refunded the account, joined trade room after trade room etc.
Continued trading, and making a little then giving it back, then make a little again, then gave more back!
Just about tried EVERY Method out there!
The reason I stayed in the business for eight years is I believed I could make a success of it!
Some traders have got a military discipline in order to succeed in this market. Unfortunately It's not something I posses.
I have to face the facts after trying to have a more disciplined approach I find I'm unable to exercise this on a daily basis successfully.
After this vicious cycle, I think my stress levels have finally taken it's toll, and have decided to become part of the 95%
failure statistic.
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Have you tried trading where you simply place a target and stop and walk away until one or the other are hit? If discipline is your problem there are solutions for finding a less intensive system that doesn't require all of your attention during the trade, only the beginning. This in effect will build your discipline if you can withstand the urge to check on the trade's PnL.
R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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These posts are timely. I am approaching the time frame of going live within a few months. I currently hold a 1st shift job that destroys my love of life...so be it. It provides me with the essentials to survive and nothing more. Plans are to trade 3 hours before work, have a mobile account that I can peek at during work and watch for the rest of the evening. I have always had an eye to the market as my Dad worked at and held GE stock. Tried options 15 years ago and blew through a grand in 2 1/2 months...not bad for not knowing a thing. What I did do was chart 6 stocks in different colored inks on graph paper. Now I have the time and desire to pursue this game.
Last April, a trading platform was downloaded on my computer to begin my journey. Tried all kinds of setups, tweaking periods and what not. My guess is 50-50...not good. Put the toy down and started to research the markets themselves and how they work. Supply and demand makes the most sense as the biggest moves occur at the reversals of these levels. We need traders to come in AFTER us to push us to profitable levels, survive the pullbacks and sideways movements. If it goes against us, we have that cushion for getting in first and to bail with a smaller than expected profit. I find revengeful trading hides in my brain and at the time I do, it turns and heads the other way...never works. There is a newsletter written by a trading school online that dates back to 2005...I am now in the year 2009, and their trading core is supply and demand. I love it. Even took a break from here to concentrate on it as this is my first day back after 5 months. Trying to locate a trusted forex broker as I want to start my trading at a buck a move. Check out the British pound against the US dollar...sold off Feb 26, hitting exactly the supply that was evident from Jan 2.
Full time job, soon to be part time trader and of coarse the goal of full time trader. If it's only 5% making it, it is being done. My plan is to be included in that minority as the majority are freely giving it away.
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For anyone struggling, in my opinion it's likely because you have adopted a losing strategy that most retail traders seem to suffer from -- which is short-term scalping.
I've been sharing my trades, statements, PnL, statistics etc on my journal thread for the last few months. I've done this in an effort to demonstrate a different way to trade compared to how most retail thinks.
Mike, I've found out to my detriment, that short term sclping simply does NOT work in the long run!
I'm probably going to take a break for awhile, then look at what Itchymoku as advised- Looking at longer term swing trading trading. Just place the trades and walk away for two to three months with a 500 pip SL. Probably more my style!
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lol I dk about walking away for 2-3 months. That's a little too far out there imo. I would definitely suggest to aim for something on the day to day time frame. Remember there is news that comes out that can be impossible to predict the volatility spikes. Fundamentals change with forex from day to day. What you're suggesting is more on the lines of investing but you have the concept right about walking away.
Good luck,
Itchymctofu
R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
I have not yet met a trader that consistently makes profit short-term scalping. Actually, all of them have blown accounts, and most are struggling to just break even. They all dream of getting consistent results while failing to acknowledge that perhaps the market is not willing to give them these consistent results.
Regarding the walking away bit, it could lead to some missed trades. Equity markets went nowhere in 2012, but suddenly perked up in Dec 2012. 2013 was a great year, and missing that initial upswing would have been detrimental to the 2013 returns. For my style of trading, missing that initial upswing is not very nice. Perhaps monitoring the markets outside of market hours or over weekends may work better. Granted, you still need to trade your plan and not interfere with it which can be tough if you monitor your trades at all.
Based on the above, it can be seen that riding out positions can be quite tough. There is always an urge to protect profits which means you miss out on potential large gains. These large gains are literally what kept my portfolio alive over the years. If I take those away, my performance would be really terrible.
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Thanks for your advise guys, but the stress of trading and loosing just lately is just simply killing me.
Best I just walk away for awhile and engage my brain in doing something else. The markets will always be there if and when I decide to return.
A man can only take so much kicking before he has to put his hand up.
A trader said to me awhile back that it is no shame if you have to take a break!!
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I also stepped away from the markets in the past. Helped me put things in perspective and come back with a) more realistic expectations, and b) a much more concrete plan.
One thing I would suggest though, is even if you don't trade now, try and save up as much capital as you can. If you then restart trading, you will have a decent bankroll, and if you don't then at least you have some rainy day savings.
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Shoot, as a newbie looking to soon enter the trading arena, this is a post I really not need to read. Man, I sure feel for you. All the hard work invested for so long. Sure rooting that this break gets you back in the game.
Currently I am practice trading. I will begin my trading as I continue to work 1st shift. This will allow me to begin trading without scared money. Also, with the small lots available to trade, this gives me the opportunity to begin with a small account.
No, this is not my primary income.
N/A to the $100,000 (50,000 would be a big number).
2,200 hours invested so far.
Living in the U.K., I'd think you could be shorting your currency as the USD continues it's strong move long.
Hmm...after skimming through this thread, I decided that an alternative take on this issue might be helpful.
Now I would suspect that my aggregate account values are much larger than the average participant in these forums. (If I were to hazard a guess by reading the trading journals, a $50k account is already at the top end of the spectrum of account sizes at futures.io (formerly BMT), and if I'm testing a strategy with live funds, that's already about the minimum amount a strategy gets tested in a live environment for me).
Despite this, a successful track record, and also devoting a considerable amount of time to trading, I would not consider trading to be my "primary" source of income, because the "trading" funds never get withdrawn because they are re-invested in investment accounts in the truest since of the word. Other sources of investment income and consulting fees pay the bills and put the food on the table so to say.
I would say though, that perhaps the biggest psychological edge I have over normal retail traders is being able to treat trading as a secondary source of income rather than primary.
A good analogy would be this: let's imagine that we lived in a primitive society. My neighbor is a nomad hunter and therefore must find something to hunt and kill in order to eat. I have a farm, and can also choose to hunt. Let's assume the farm in this analogy provides a steady source of food that I can just harvest something from the fields and droughts are not a concern.
The farm affords me the luxury of not having a lot of psychology issues. When I decide to pick up a bow and arrow to go hunt, I don't have to take very many risks. I can patiently wait until a very slow, nonthreatening, and fat animal comes across my path before I decide to waste any energy, because worst case scenario, I can go home and earn corn instead of starving and picking fight with a big bull or big bear.
However, my neighbor that only has a single source of food from hunting, has to be successful in his/her hunt every day/week. No success that day = no food. This makes my neighbor more prone to taking risks I wouldn't have to take. Maybe it's being forced to chase small game instead of big game, or picking a fight with a big dangerous bear just to get food. But on a per hunt basis, maybe 95% of my hunts will be successful because I can afford to be patient for the easy prey, but my neighbor can't.
So this is all to say that having a primary source of income outside of trading provides a huge psychological edge.
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But the farm DOES indeed encounter foul weather: be it drought, saturation or just too cool...and harvest is not what it should be.
Been there, done that.
The most difficult question for me to answer is how to find a mentor thats not a scammer. Its more easy to teach 100 students at $5000 tuition a pop (thats half a million dollars a year) than actually day trade. Ive come across quite a few vendors and all they teach is something like "after your price breaks through the midband of your bollinger and comes back to midband take trade in direction of the market"....Personally I only want to trade Futures and I cant seem to get beyond break even on a net monthly basis.
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Ive lost all faith in indicators, even if they work its only in certain market conditions for each indicator...there has to be a simpler solution than mastering an indicator. Usually the most genius solutions are the simplest!
Sounds as if you are trading live where as I am not. Started market replay using indicators and did not improve my positions much. I have opted for supply and demand as my core strategy. Longer term trading without the anxiousness of scalping for a few. Can I say it is more forgiving? Plenty of info on the net about it and the only indicator I use from time to time is a horizontal line. Thing about Bollinger bands, it can give me a heads up, but it won't whisper in my ear when that next candle is going to turn. Only price can do that.
Tim
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Finding a legit mentor can be tough....there are several recognized traders that provide coaching and instructional services but those can be very limited AND quite pricey....Micheal Martin comes to mind.....I think he's in the $3000 range...can't quite remember to be fair but I know its up there.
The other option is to follow a known successful trader here on the forum. There are a couple that trade regularly and post their results and thought processes. Some of those require reading mountains of superficial nonsense to get to the meat but could be worth it for you.
Another idea is to ask someone if you can trade with them via skype or something like that to get a feel for how they approach the market. This is hit and miss depending on the person and how good they are.
Or you can simply get in front of the charts and just observe price action for several months until you are comfortable with how your instrument moves and then start trading small and build up.
If you are in fact break even most months, you are ahead of the pack. I suspect one of the main things you probably need to do is learn money management AND learn to let your winners run a bit more.
These two things will most likely improve your results tremendously.
Cheers and good luck.
Note: If you are willing to relocate, SMB in NYC could be a great place to go and learn. A buddy recently went there and is doing great so far.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci
Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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I'd totally agree with number 1
Number 2 is debatable - Gold has high volume, but awful slippage (I was slipped 5 points on a 2 lot market order a few weeks ago)
Number 3 is debatable - Silver, Cattle, Hogs, Nat Gas - just to name a few - have been manipulated over the years
I'd agree with number 4, although many people don't realize that leverage is a double edged sword. Leverage can be really, really dangerous
I'd add number 5: Easier record keeping for taxes
For futures taxation, the overall tax rate is much lower than for stocks (point #1), and record keeping (point #5) is a breeze - I only have to enter 2 numbers on Form 6781 every year. I don't have to worry about holding periods, wash sales, etc.
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1. Yes
2. Yes, Over
3. about 6 years. Every waking free moment was spent in front of the screen. Simulation trading, demo trading, live trading, etc. I would wake up at 1 a.m. so I could catch the Frankfurt open at 2 and traded until I had to leave for work. Then I would come home, eat (usually in front of the screen) and review the market moves during the day. On weekends I would practice using historical data and an EA for Metatrader that actually didn't do anything. It allowed me to use the strategy tester as a trading simulator. Main thing is I didn't give up.
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