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Primary source of income: how many have made it?
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Primary source of income: how many have made it?

  #611 (permalink)
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traderx4 View Post
Mike, I've found out to my detriment, that short term sclping simply does NOT work in the long run!
I'm probably going to take a break for awhile, then look at what Itchymoku as advised- Looking at longer term swing trading trading. Just place the trades and walk away for two to three months with a 500 pip SL. Probably more my style!

I have not yet met a trader that consistently makes profit short-term scalping. Actually, all of them have blown accounts, and most are struggling to just break even. They all dream of getting consistent results while failing to acknowledge that perhaps the market is not willing to give them these consistent results.

Regarding the walking away bit, it could lead to some missed trades. Equity markets went nowhere in 2012, but suddenly perked up in Dec 2012. 2013 was a great year, and missing that initial upswing would have been detrimental to the 2013 returns. For my style of trading, missing that initial upswing is not very nice. Perhaps monitoring the markets outside of market hours or over weekends may work better. Granted, you still need to trade your plan and not interfere with it which can be tough if you monitor your trades at all.

Based on the above, it can be seen that riding out positions can be quite tough. There is always an urge to protect profits which means you miss out on potential large gains. These large gains are literally what kept my portfolio alive over the years. If I take those away, my performance would be really terrible.

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  #612 (permalink)
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Thanks for your advise guys, but the stress of trading and loosing just lately is just simply killing me.
Best I just walk away for awhile and engage my brain in doing something else. The markets will always be there if and when I decide to return.

A man can only take so much kicking before he has to put his hand up.
A trader said to me awhile back that it is no shame if you have to take a break!!



Last edited by traderx4; March 2nd, 2015 at 06:34 AM.
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  #613 (permalink)
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traderx4 View Post
Thanks for your advise guys, but the stress of trading and loosing just lately is just simply killing me.
Best I just walk away for awhile and engage my brain in doing something else. The markets will always be there if and when I decide to return.

A man can only take so much kicking before he has to put put his hand up.
A trader said to me awhile back that it is no shame if you have to take a break!!


I also stepped away from the markets in the past. Helped me put things in perspective and come back with a) more realistic expectations, and b) a much more concrete plan.

One thing I would suggest though, is even if you don't trade now, try and save up as much capital as you can. If you then restart trading, you will have a decent bankroll, and if you don't then at least you have some rainy day savings.

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  #614 (permalink)
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webart View Post
The figures come from brokers, actually the figures for those that make money for more than a year are 98%/2% according to a CBOT lecture I was listening too ... and they should know.

Yes, how it works, is the professional traders, get there money from the newbies, and there is a constant supply of newbies into the market convinced by the marketing of the educators (who also feed on the newbies) that they will be able to make a living using their $5000 account. The market works by offering Hope, but not delivering what was Hoped for, that is what keeps the market moving.

The problem with making a living out of it, is the amount of capital you really need to have to handle draw downs and to give yourself the leverage you need and that's assuming you know what your doing (which takes years). When your under capitalized you have scared money, so you run tight stops and make poor decisions.

If you can make 2% per month consistently, then you are up there with the best traders.

And no, I don't make 100K per year from trading !

There are much easier ways to make money than from trading.


How True...Some one has worked out how this Industry actually works!!

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  #615 (permalink)
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Slipknot511 View Post
This makes sense because a small account always forces traders to overtrade in an attempt to get meaningful returns.
When you have a sufficiently funded account, it's easy to be patient and disciplined, because you know that one good trade is going to pay the bills. When you have a small account and you see you only made $100 for all that hard work, there is immense pressure to continue trading... often giving back most of your profits.

Another true statement!!!

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  #616 (permalink)
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traderx4 View Post
The reason hardly anyone has posted is because many are loosing their accounts including myself.
After 8 years of trying this, I'm about to call it a day!


This market is simply rigged against day traders unless you can take longer term trades with a minimum of 500 pip
stops.It's simply no point in even attempting to be involved in this so called day trading pipe dream that most of us are lead to believe will give you consistent returns.

The market was NOT made for us small boys.
Unless you have insider info, you are going to struggle.

There may be traders here making money but they are but a few!!

traderx4:

Shoot, as a newbie looking to soon enter the trading arena, this is a post I really not need to read. Man, I sure feel for you. All the hard work invested for so long. Sure rooting that this break gets you back in the game.

Currently I am practice trading. I will begin my trading as I continue to work 1st shift. This will allow me to begin trading without scared money. Also, with the small lots available to trade, this gives me the opportunity to begin with a small account.

No, this is not my primary income.
N/A to the $100,000 (50,000 would be a big number).
2,200 hours invested so far.

Living in the U.K., I'd think you could be shorting your currency as the USD continues it's strong move long.

Tim


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  #617 (permalink)
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Hmm...after skimming through this thread, I decided that an alternative take on this issue might be helpful.

Now I would suspect that my aggregate account values are much larger than the average participant in these forums. (If I were to hazard a guess by reading the trading journals, a $50k account is already at the top end of the spectrum of account sizes at futures.io (formerly BMT), and if I'm testing a strategy with live funds, that's already about the minimum amount a strategy gets tested in a live environment for me).

Despite this, a successful track record, and also devoting a considerable amount of time to trading, I would not consider trading to be my "primary" source of income, because the "trading" funds never get withdrawn because they are re-invested in investment accounts in the truest since of the word. Other sources of investment income and consulting fees pay the bills and put the food on the table so to say.

I would say though, that perhaps the biggest psychological edge I have over normal retail traders is being able to treat trading as a secondary source of income rather than primary.

A good analogy would be this: let's imagine that we lived in a primitive society. My neighbor is a nomad hunter and therefore must find something to hunt and kill in order to eat. I have a farm, and can also choose to hunt. Let's assume the farm in this analogy provides a steady source of food that I can just harvest something from the fields and droughts are not a concern.

The farm affords me the luxury of not having a lot of psychology issues. When I decide to pick up a bow and arrow to go hunt, I don't have to take very many risks. I can patiently wait until a very slow, nonthreatening, and fat animal comes across my path before I decide to waste any energy, because worst case scenario, I can go home and earn corn instead of starving and picking fight with a big bull or big bear.

However, my neighbor that only has a single source of food from hunting, has to be successful in his/her hunt every day/week. No success that day = no food. This makes my neighbor more prone to taking risks I wouldn't have to take. Maybe it's being forced to chase small game instead of big game, or picking a fight with a big dangerous bear just to get food. But on a per hunt basis, maybe 95% of my hunts will be successful because I can afford to be patient for the easy prey, but my neighbor can't.

So this is all to say that having a primary source of income outside of trading provides a huge psychological edge.

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  #618 (permalink)
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But the farm DOES indeed encounter foul weather: be it drought, saturation or just too cool...and harvest is not what it should be.
Been there, done that.

Tim

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  #619 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post
I have about 1200 hours of screen time. I think its more but not really sure at this point. A lot of it was spent jumping around from trading room to trading room and trying different indicators. This means that of the 1200 hours of screen time, I really have only about 200 hours per method. This is not good. However, I dumped the trading rooms a month ago, got down to business developing my own methods and now have about 200 hours on my OWN method. i am getting comfortable with it.

As to the money part, I have not made any money yet. But I have not blown up an account yet either.Yes I've lost money but not enough to get me out of the game.

I know the odds are against me, but in business, the odd are always against you. I came from an industry where even in the good times with money growing on trees, the wash out rate over 5 years was 95%. I managed to make it into the top 20% of all performers in the country. It took me 3 years to do it but I did it. And I will do it again with trading.

I too like Sharky, paid thousands of dollars for training and mentor-ship in my previous career. It paid dividends like I never imagined it would. In trading, I am getting my education by reading everything I can get my hands on, participating in forums like this one and spending as much time in front of the market as possible. In the end, like every thing else that has enormous profit potential, trading is simple, not easy. I am trying my best to simplify everything I have read and learned into a simple (not easy) to understand and execute trading methodology.

The most difficult question for me to answer is how to find a mentor thats not a scammer. Its more easy to teach 100 students at $5000 tuition a pop (thats half a million dollars a year) than actually day trade. Ive come across quite a few vendors and all they teach is something like "after your price breaks through the midband of your bollinger and comes back to midband take trade in direction of the market"....Personally I only want to trade Futures and I cant seem to get beyond break even on a net monthly basis.

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  #620 (permalink)
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siewen View Post
Hello all,

1 - No, but the true answer is: I would like to be a good trader, lets say earning enough to live from it.
2 - No I never earn anything from real trading, I am mostly on SIM and looking for a new strategy. I try more times real money ( 3 times) but each time that I had a lost of money, then I was feeling not good. I think all of you know this strange feeling. Now I will trade without any feelings, meaning my strategy is there, i go into the market, CAUSE i know i can trust the strategie.

I trade something like 8-9 months now on SIM, trading the ES but now I will change it to the YM. I do not trust the ES anymore, and I feel better in the YM. I started to trade with indicators, a lot of them, so much that i can not see the market anymore. but now i deleted all and i trade lets say without any. from time to time i look on BigMike forum to see if an indicator can help me but i am not an indicator-freak anymore.

I use also this post to say THANKS to Mike for the forum, but also THANKS to all traders too. I really learned a lot here. AND I hope i will continue like this...

Sorry I continue the post regarding the hours on screen. it is really hard to say. 8 months ca, 8-10 hours per day. week end looking to ananlyse strategie and creating a new one. lets say minimum 200 hours per month, ca 1500 hours in 8 months (i cut holidays day and day i do something else). like i say 200 hours per month is the minimum. But actually it is more 12-13 hours per day on the screen.


Frederic

Ive lost all faith in indicators, even if they work its only in certain market conditions for each indicator...there has to be a simpler solution than mastering an indicator. Usually the most genius solutions are the simplest!

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