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Primary source of income: how many have made it?
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Primary source of income: how many have made it?

  #31 (permalink)
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Metal Trade - "It has something magic"

well said, charting and learning seems like a drug to em. new form of drug as we get addicted whether we get money or lose as we all expect to win one day. Eventually it leads to lot of frustration from addictiveness

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  #32 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
I just hope that you guys realise that if you really want to earn money, you should not be daytrading.

With these amounts of efforts time wise people put in to chase the dream of living of a computer screen, you could start up any business that sells something that people need everyday and really earn a lot of money.

I know it sucks but if only 2% succeed, what the hell are we doing here ? 2% ?? Statisticly that's the same as NOBODY. Why are we so blind ?

I love the trading game and all the learning about it. It has something magic. But I always have a feeling that I'm getting screwed by a happy few (those 2%).

Just keep in mind, just because you cannot do something, doesn't mean it cannot get done. Until you believe something is possible, it won't be.

If you don't think this is possible, then indeed, what are you doing here? Why waste your time on something you don't think is possible?

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  #33 (permalink)
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thatguy View Post
Just keep in mind, just because you cannot do something, doesn't mean it cannot get done. Until you believe something is possible, it won't be.

If you don't think this is possible, then indeed, what are you doing here? Why waste your time on something you don't think is possible?

I have no idea. Because of the magic ? Because I like learning all that stuff ? Because in the back of my mind I hope I can earn money out off it, while I have every proof that it's virtually impossible ? I'm having fun doing this stuff I must honestly say.

My post was also to explain that if you want to earn a good living and have freedom that it's WAY easier to do it to just start up a regular business.

Maybe I can succeed and I will come back and preach you that it is possible. But all the odds are against it, numbers don't lie!

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  #34 (permalink)
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MetalTrade View Post
I have no idea. Because of the magic ? Because I like learning all that stuff ? Because in the back of my mind I hope I can earn money out off it, while I have every proof that it's virtually impossible ? I'm having fun doing this stuff I must honestly say.

My post was also to explain that if you want to earn a good living and have freedom that it's WAY easier to do it to just start up a regular business.

Maybe I can succeed and I will come back and preach you that it is possible. But all the odds are against it, numbers don't lie!


This make no sense to me to say you know how to make money (opening a new business), but you rather spend your time on something you know will not make money. With other words, you are treating trading like a hobby and not like a business. When you have a hobby, you don't expect to make money and is doing it for pleasure and fun. If this is all you want, then great, but then you should expect to lose money and cannot use this an example that profitable trading is not possible since what you are doing is not trading; you are merely playing around.

Frankly, the statistics you mentioned is very misleading and is just used by people as an excuse on why they are not successfull. If you have a group of people wanting to become pilots and all they do is reading a couple of books about flying and play a few flight simulator games and then jump in a plane and fly, how many do you think will survive? Will you then say that becoming a pilot is virtually impossible based on this sample? The same for trading... if you just jump in and trade without any plan and with an underfunded account and treat it like a hobby, is this really fair to include those people in these "statistics" and to use that as proof that trading is virtually impossible?

I would go so far to say that if people open a new business without a business plan and not enough cash in the bank for cashflow, that the failure rate will be the same as the statistics you quote for trading.

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  #35 (permalink)
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thatguy View Post
This make no sense to me to say you know how to make money (opening a new business), but you rather spend your time on something you know will not make money. With other words, you are treating trading like a hobby and not like a business. When you have a hobby, you don't expect to make money and is doing it for pleasure and fun. If this is all you want, then great, but then you should expect to lose money and cannot use this an example that profitable trading is not possible since what you are doing is not trading; you are merely playing around.

Frankly, the statistics you mentioned is very misleading and is just used by people as an excuse on why they are not successfull. If you have a group of people wanting to become pilots and all they do is reading a couple of books about flying and play a few flight simulator games and then jump in a plane and fly, how many do you think will survive? Will you then say that becoming a pilot is virtually impossible based on this sample? The same for trading... if you just jump in and trade without any plan and with an underfunded account and treat it like a hobby, is this really fair to include those people in these "statistics" and to use that as proof that trading is virtually impossible?

I would go so far to say that if people open a new business without a business plan and not enough cash in the bank for cashflow, that the failure rate will be the same as the statistics you quote for trading.

Funny you mention but for my hobby I did my FAA-PPL, single engine and multi engine plus on top my instrument rating also !!!!

I'm happy that I can now study the trading art, I have read some really classic books about technical analysis.

The posts I make is because it makes me think about the whole 'day trading for living' thing. For the moment I'm not treating daytrading as a business, that is correct, but as a hobby I really enjoy doing. Does that mean it's only possible to earn a living if you look 12+ hours a day to the market ? Every day ? Please tell me. If so, how much do you think are the odds you earn a living if you are 12+ hours a day on the market ? 75% 50% 25% 10% 5% ?

You have to admit it's low, very low. Lower than having your own business.

I strongly also believe that daytraders should at least put in $50k in their account. $100k preferred if my ask me. You would need to be extremely lucky and good to make a living with $10k cash in this game.

Like I said, for the moment these posts are merely a philosophic thinking path...

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  #36 (permalink)
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I only have bad news (NT6.5, zenfire, mirus, dorman)
Next and lets say the unknown (NT6.5, DNT-IQ, AMP, CCG) plus downloaded futures.io (formerly BMT) Gold indicator and may need help with the setup.

Good question though -- huh trading

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  #37 (permalink)
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Thank you all for your inputs. It is great to read what others have being doing and to know that Im not alone in this game of trading.
What we have decided to do is difficult but not impossible and with time we all are going to get to our destinations.
As I have said trading game is hard and positive attitude is very important, because we do need to get up after that bad trade and look forward to better one next time.
However when I read something as MrtalTrade has posted I get a bit frustrated and hence I would love to ask why are you in this forum to start with?
Why dont you take your own suggestion and be wise enough and start your own business about something to sell something that people need.
Trading is a business and I guess we all have decided to stay with it.
Positive thinking is the best to stay in this game.

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  #38 (permalink)
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Tickvix, I have started and sold several business some good and others are a faillure.

So I know what I'm talking about.

I love the trading game though, that's why I'm here. I don't want to be negative, just realistic.

I also believe that being a member of big Mike's day trading forum puts us way higher on the 'succeed' scale... And maybe we increase the ratio to 25/75% success/faillure

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  #39 (permalink)
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Well success would be to also have a tread in this forum that is titled PAID-indicators and WINNING-setup. Could be futures.io (formerly BMT)-Best-Setup. How much? say $100 to access the tread. And I mean no BS. (im not looking for beauty and good looking indicators but practical fast and accurate signals) Stages? Say starting with less risky few opportunities going to more aggressive NO SIM please only live traders. Sure I would follow and post ratings on money making indicators (not paper).

Auditing: Another tread may be live-screen-captures to verify DATA and CHARTS on particular time periods. That is based on my experience and to ensure we all trading the same data and market. So far I am not convinced that all live-traders receive the same signals. I would leave this idea as to be my personal impression.

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  #40 (permalink)
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Starting a real business to make money...thats funny. The failure rate for small business over 5 years is 95%. Proven facts. Go check it out.

Why is it so? Same reasons people fail in trading: 1. Under capitalized 2. Un-realistic expectations about how much time and effort it takes to make a business successful. 3. Lack of knowledge and skill. 5. Limited upside potential for earnings for most kinds of business.

The truth is this: I have run several small and not so small businesses. I have had overhead of $80,000 a month with 20 employees. We made more than $2 million top line a year. It took MASSIVE effort and money to make this happen. Can you say $250K minimum first year! 14-16 hours a day for many many months in a row. No life and constant worry if it will succeed.

Now to trading: 1. Overhead, less than $300 a month for fixed expenses. 2. Learning curve is manageable, maybe a year if you really dig in. 3. Capital required is less than $250K and as little as $10,000. 4. Earning potential, off the charts. 5. Time required daily....variable depending on your other commitments but once you are profitable and depending on your income goals and needs, 3-4 hours a day is reasonable.

So yes it is hard to succeed in trading, but its just as hard to succeed in ANY other kind of business. The question is, how much risk do you want to take? The risk with a "real business" is you have no idea if you are successful or not until many months or even years down the road all the while risking your time, your capital, your health and relationships to make it work with limited income potential.

With trading, you risk all the same things but the big difference is this; your feed back is instant in most cases and there is a built in self improvement loop built in. To top it off, once you "figure it out", profitability is potentially unlimited.

I love the idea that I do not have to depend on employees to make things happen for me. Instead, I depend on myself and look to others for feed back, suggestions and accountability. I love that I don't have an $80,000 nut to crack every month just to break even. I love that I can trade for a couple hours in the morning and know that tomorrow the same opportunities await me. No so in a "real" business. You may have the right idea but the wrong time, or you may jump on an idea whose time is past. Too many variables for me. I've done both and I love trading!

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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