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Primary source of income: how many have made it?
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Primary source of income: how many have made it?

  #171 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
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rassi View Post
i appreciate your dedication is impressive but when it comes to actually trading it is this attitude that will be most effective in ensuring you do not make it.

I understand why you had said this, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Perseverance alone will never bring success without the proper mental and psychological tools and mindset. Trading IMO is 95% psychological.

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  #172 (permalink)
The fun is in the numbers
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Day Trading Fool View Post
I keep hearing the 95/5 percentage of failing/successful traders used. This sounds reasonable to me.
Here we go:
1. Is trading your primary source of income? (Yes or no)
2. Do you make over $100k/year in trading (Over, under, NA)
3. How long did you trade prior to making trading your primary source of income - or if not primary income yet, number of years trading? (Approx. # hours on screen)

I have been working on my systems for 2 years for daytrading - full time and living on my savings. So daytrading is my sole source of income though no income. I traded a bit earlier on before I was ready, lost some money, and quickly stopped. While my system is not yet ready for prime time - I must start trading soon as I am approaching the end of my savings. I am on the computer from 6:30 CT to 8:30, "on screen" watching the ES, doing hand graphs and calculations form open 8:30- 15:15, and 15:15 to 17:00 or 18:00 doing end of day wrap-up.


1. Yes
2. No
3. NA

Thank-you for posing the question. I think it is a good one.

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  #173 (permalink)
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sharky View Post
rassi i dont have any systems everything i post is to teach people what to look at and to train their minds on how to see price action easier,to let them pratice stuff on sim over and over again until a light goes off and they say oh thats what he means,i look at charts 15-20 hrs per day for about 5 years and paid thousands and thousands for my school and mentored under real traders its not easy or cheap to trade i sacerficed relationships and lost friends,its a long hard lonley road and you have to decide how bad do i really want this and is there a eaiser way to make a buck...sharky

Thank-you Sharky for this great post!

Your sharing of the investment in time, education, dollars, practice and relationships that you sacrificed is helpful to others who have chosen this challenging endeavor.

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  #174 (permalink)
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itrade2win View Post
I understand why you had said this, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Perseverance alone will never bring success without the proper mental and psychological tools and mindset. Trading IMO is 95% psychological.

you do not understand why i said it then. sometimes trying to hard and wanting it too much inhibts you from succeding, this is especially true in trading.

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  #175 (permalink)
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aquarian1 View Post
I must start trading soon as I am approaching the end of my savings.


Be careful with that. Trading with your last savings is extremely dangerous. In that situation your chances to succeed drop drastically. It's because of an emotional issue, nothing to do with your system...
Before get to that point look for alternatives (i.e. a part time job, a trade sabbatical, etc.).

UC

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  #176 (permalink)
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rassi View Post
you do not understand why i said it then. sometimes trying to hard and wanting it too much inhibts you from succeding, this is especially true in trading.


I do understand why you said it, and I appreciate that. But, you don't know me. And that's why psychology is the MOST important factor. I have my methodology and money management in tact. My main focus is on me psychologically. Reading only psychology books, but keeping a journal and statistical records of winning % of my setups is only part of the game.

All I'm saying is to me, trading is a game of mental strength. And if you can't take the challenge and prepare yourself to win then no, you won't be successful at trading or in most businesses.

I have overcome some of the highest odds against me in the past. And it wasn't because I worked 80+ hours a week. It was because I had the mental toughness to achieve the high levels of success. I have acquired levels of success that most people can only dream of. I know my DNA and I know that I will accomplish my goals

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  #177 (permalink)
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itrade2win View Post
I don't want to be, or am trying to be Michael Jordan or even Steve Kerr. I just want to be me and make my own mark in life and in this world. And who says that I can't be better than Michael Jordan or any other trader in the world? No one and I know for a fact that NO ONE works harder than ME. I spend every waken moment studying charts, reading books, writing in my journal, taking notes and creating statistics 18+ hrs a day. I have sacrificed everything to this point to be a professional trader. When I mean professional trader, I am talking more than just being consistent. I will master this and I will succeed beyond most imaginations. I have done this before with other business ventures and I will do it with trading.

itrade2win,

Sounds like you are making all the right steps in the beginning of your trading career. Because you've pursued other business ventures in the past, I would assume you have a solid business plan which would include your strategy, money management, goals and any contingency plans. I believe if you stick to your plan, have a positive mental attitude and a profitable edge, you will make it. Whether you want to be compared to another athlete, that's up to you. No one will ever know how successful you are (other than your broker) but it doesn't matter. You're in it to win and have a comfortable lifestyle for yourself and not for bragging rights. Don't listen to nay sayers. You've sacrificed everything so there's no turning back now. You can do it.

These conversations are very high level and at the risk of going a bit off topic from the original question but I'll keep it going if allowed. As I mentioned somewhere on this forum, trading is a very individualistic, cognitive activity. It will bring out the best and worst in you. It's how you handle it all and stick to your plan that defines the winners from the losers.

On the lighter side of things, from the words of the great Rocky Balboa "Let me tell you something you already know, the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now, if you know what you're worth, go out and get what you're worth! But you've gotta be willing to take the hits! And not pointing fingers saying, you aren't where you want to be because of him, her or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! You're better than that! "

As funny as it may seam (and the risk of sounding crazy), his message has some very valuable advice when it comes to trading. You should always be managing your risk and keep moving forward. Take your stops when they need to be stopped, follow your plan and the money will take care of itself. The over all concept is fairly simple. The hard part is the psychological aspect. Just remember what Rocky has to say

Best,
PB

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  #178 (permalink)
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itrade2win, I wish you all the best. But you sound like a little too overconfident, what I read from you did not made me profitable, it was not only psycho stuff, so probably I take your money faster in this game than you can blink your eyes.

Why ? Because you will be focused on your psycho strength and you will have that in the back in your mind while trading, and meanwhile I will have your money.

The only psychological thing for me is that there is no emotion left anymore. Zero.

People do not become profitable because they read the right books, believe in themselves or treat trading as a business. These 3 items are heavily overrated. In fact, normal business rules don't apply to trading, that's why TREATING TRADING AS A BUSINESS IS PLAIN BULLSHIT.

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  #179 (permalink)
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itrade2win View Post
I don't want to be, or am trying to be Michael Jordan or even Steve Kerr. I just want to be me and make my own mark in life and in this world. And who says that I can't be better than Michael Jordan or any other trader in the world? No one and I know for a fact that NO ONE works harder than ME. I spend every waken moment studying charts, reading books, writing in my journal, taking notes and creating statistics 18+ hrs a day. I have sacrificed everything to this point to be a professional trader. When I mean professional trader, I am talking more than just being consistent. I will master this and I will succeed beyond most imaginations. I have done this before with other business ventures and I will do it with trading.

I was not actually the one who brought up Jordan in the first place, but being from Chicago and having watched him in his glory years I like to use his skill set as a metaphor for a trader who has it all. Jordan played great offense, great defense, was a great clutch player and a great team player, and was a motivator for his teammates. Steve Kerr was a role player who made critical contributions to the team, but he did not "have it all" like Jordan.

The trader you aspire to be is Michael Jordan-like, i.e. someone who has it all. Your work ethic will get you far but it will not guarantee that you have it all. Superstars like Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Cristiano Ronaldo worked hard like you do but they also have huge talent or preparation from such an early age that it's indistinguishable from talent. My point was that even if you don't "have it all", for example if you discover that no matter how hard you try you simply can't make money in CL and GC but you do consistently well in ZN, ES, and 6E, or that you can make money day trading but not position trading, you can still make a huge fortune with the proper business plan. And trading in the privacy of your office, no one but you will know, and no one but you will care, if you "have it all". But if you have a successful business from trading with all the lifestyle perks that come with it, i.e. nice home, nice vacation home, nice car, nice spouse, etc. and most importantly the time to enjoy all those nice things, you will have the envy and the respect of everyone who knows you, as long as you are not a total dickhead. You will have made that mark, even if there is some aspect of the business you can not master.

I spent 6 years in cash grain trading offices, 16 years in the pits, and 6 years trading in arcades with other professional traders. Like tigertrader, I have spent my entire adult life, over 30 years, being exposed to probably a thousand other traders. I've seen traders with huge talent but huge egos and poor discipline make 8 figures on a single trade and then be in debt two years later. I've seen traders with much less talent but a great work ethic make a solid, high six figure income, never be considered a superstar, but still be in possession of their money and a very nice lifestyle indeed after 20 years in the business. I've seen one of the biggest names in the game, one of maybe the two most famous names in this business in Chicago with probably a nine figure lifetime income from trading, one of Jack Schwager's "Market Wizards", lose all his money in an unrelated business.

What all this exposure to other traders over decades gives a person is perspective. Not only have I had to win my own psychological and financial battles, I've gotten to witness hundreds of other traders coping with those issues in their own way. This is unfortunately a perspective that is does not exist for the trader laboring in the privacy of his or her own office.

So, after all this, I'm just saying, you can make your mark in this business just fine with a limited skill set, as long as you have the right business plan, and you can utterly fail in this business with a terrific skill set and a bad business plan. Don't give the plan short shrift because you spend all your effort at analysis.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..."
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  #180 (permalink)
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Private Banker View Post
itrade2win,

I believe if you stick to your plan, have a positive mental attitude and a profitable edge, you will make it. Whether you want to be compared to another athlete, that's up to you. No one will ever know how successful you are (other than your broker) but it doesn't matter.


Best,
PB

A little spooky. Are you my long lost twin or something?

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..."
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