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Stop Size for ES
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Stop Size for ES

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Stop Size for ES

How you guys set the stoploss for ES? ive noticed most of the time that the ES moves up 1 or 2 points then down 1 or 2 points then up again when its choppy however when its moving real fast, it doesnt go back down or up so a very low stop could be used. On average ive found that a stop between 1.5 and 2.5 points or between 6 and 10 ticks works best. Any thoughts?

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I usually set my safety stoploss to about +1 point more than the average rotation when it's a normal rangey type of day. Other times, I'll use some variation of a percentage of an ATR (i.e. 25% of 10-day ATR). Just depends on what I feel like at the moment.

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I'd say the vast majority of traders use a stop between 2 and 2.5 points. If you use tools like market profile or the vwap along with a volume ladder aka footprint you could lower it (stop) between 3 to 5 ticks. However, lately on futures.io (formerly BMT) we have seen proponents favoring a no stop loss scenario and averaging down when price goes againts you.

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trendisyourfriend View Post
I'd say the vast majority of traders use a stop between 2 and 2.5 points. If you use tools like market profile or the vwap along with a volume ladder aka footprint you could lower it (stop) between 3 to 5 ticks. However, lately on futures.io (formerly BMT) we have seen proponents favoring a no stop loss scenario and averaging down when price goes againts you.

I think you should clarify adding when price goes against you and is still within context of the plan and you are able to buy more for better price vs adding more in hopes of minimizing loss. The 2 activities can look identical without a plan and discipline. The first option will allow the trader to add more while still being confident and perhaps even just getting out when they realize they are wrong. The latter option leads to hoping for a rebound and probably emotional puking and capitulation.

Addendum: I just want to add that I'm not trying to correct you, be offensive, or sound like an arrogant know-it-all in any way. Just adding my thoughts on what I've realized so far in my journey.

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Last edited by fminus; April 24th, 2015 at 06:13 PM. Reason: addendum
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Here is a potential scenario using today's price action...

When price begun to retrace, you could have started a buying campaing at today's VAL then add at Yesterday's VPOC and finally attempt to add at the Low of the day (RTH session). Your mental stop loss could have been placed below support as seen on the picture.

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elitetradernyc View Post
How you guys set the stoploss for ES? ive noticed most of the time that the ES moves up 1 or 2 points then down 1 or 2 points then up again when its choppy however when its moving real fast, it doesnt go back down or up so a very low stop could be used. On average ive found that a stop between 1.5 and 2.5 points or between 6 and 10 ticks works best. Any thoughts?

Discussion on stops is massive, do a search.

If you can read the market to be fast moving or choppy then good skills, whether its trending or ranging may also impact your stop placements. And theres a potential myriad of other factors which may influence your stop, like indicators and dare I say recent price action.

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Thanks but what do you mean when you say average rotation? How do you determine it?


fminus View Post
I usually set my safety stoploss to about +1 point more than the average rotation when it's a normal rangey type of day. Other times, I'll use some variation of a percentage of an ATR (i.e. 25% of 10-day ATR). Just depends on what I feel like at the moment.


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elitetradernyc View Post
Thanks but what do you mean when you say average rotation? How do you determine it?

By average rotation, I am referring to the average harmonic rotation of the markets (in whatever timeframe you are trading). It is the ebb and flow of the market as it rotates back and forth, back and forth. If you don't have IRT or SC to conduct this research you can even get a feel for it just by placing a simple Swing indicator (also on futures.io (formerly BMT) download section) and you'll start to notice that on average price will move a certain number of points before turning around. Obviously you just can't just use this in a blind mechanical way but it helps me get an idea on the flow of the markets and where I'm probably wrong if wrong. FT71 talks about harmonic rotations in his webinars (i forget which ones), so I highly recommend you check them out when you get the chance. There are also some stats on this posted in the master homework thread. Hope this helps.

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Thanks a lot the swing indicator is EXACTLY what i needed, u a godsend.

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