Welcome to NexusFi: the best trading community on the planet, with over 150,000 members Sign Up Now for Free
Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
Quality education from leading professional traders
We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free for basic access, or support us by becoming an Elite Member -- see if you qualify for a discount below.
-- Big Mike, Site Administrator
(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)
I see the contrast between S1 and S2 when I go out for a long walk after an intense trading session.
Walking is S2 time for me and I often come to realizations that I cannot see at all when in the heat of battle. How could I have been so blind, I ask myself.
The more walking the better.
"Persistence is very important. You should not give up unless you are forced to give up." -- Elon Musk
There is truth in it but the model is flawed. Its like a Picasso of reality. One problem is the labels are misleading. The other problem are the suggested tools for self management. You cant make muddy water clear by stirring and agitating. That's the issue I have with all these self management techniques. They give you a stick and tell you to stir.
Our minds are not computers, we don't think linear. Our minds are parallel processors. Internal events are composed of multiple factors all occurring simultaneously. Each and every moment you are a constellation of recognisable patterns. You will react according to the current configuration your reality occupies whether you like it or not. If you are not happy with the current config you must first observe. No amount of self talk will get you out of it
The best you can do is nothing. Just observe. Its the hardest thing to do and something mind avoids at all costs. It is far easier and way more exciting to create a reality where you are in charge and center of attention explaining this and that, putting monkeys in cages, defining strategies (but never following through), telling yourself how it all works etc. Takes up far too much energy.
All models of mind are at best wishful make-believe psycho-babble; just like physics - there are dozens of models that get the maths and the answers right, but are they close to reality? Nope. I prefer to keep it simple a la Damasio - we are exactly what our brains and bodies feel we are, and we have to live with it. If we can find useful tools that can help along the way that's a big help, but they don't suddenly become 'the way'.
The fast-slow system split is clearly present and the latest brain scanners and brain injury cases tell us where the major components are, and the colour of some of the wiring, but do any of us use the same channels for exactly the same jobs? I doubt it. I would like to experience a bit of synesthesia now and again though.
@Grantx so I could replay your 'just because you think that, doesn't make it true' card, but I'd like to take a step back and ask you and @ratfink, what is true then? What is real?
It sounds like it boils down to this, i.e., when science does not yet have the answer we are looking for, we need to confront how well our model of reality works against the outside environment.
Your first sentence...? You must define what you are referring to otherwise I dont know what the questions is.
See now there is a part of the loop you are caught in, attempting to model reality/impose a scaffolding / create structure/ provide explanation. You dont need to confront anything, or explain anything. Why? Majority of the time you experience your thought of reality and not reality itself.
xplorer you suck as a person and your opinion is utterly useless and irrelevant.
NOt true of course but I want to illustrate a point. You read that and it went into your brain and you could not help thinking about it and reacting to it in some way. You had no control over that little event, it just happened. But is any of it true? Does it reflect reality? Was your mental model there to help you in the instance you felt that reaction grenade going off in you? I bet it all happened before you had a chance to react. Surprisingly we talk to ourselves like that on a daily basis. I used to do that. BUt you can get past it without all the heavy lifting and thats my point.
Going swimming now will continue discussion later if you care to comment. I think this is an iunteresting subject.
All of this is good and well but, since you brought reality into the equation, it does not answer the question: what is reality?
I found Thinking Fast and Slow interesting because I believe that it fits with my own experience of reality: I find that if I confront myself with a model that offers an S1 and S2 paradigm I am better able to relate to my day to day behaviour. That is my explanation of why I think it fits.
Most of the stuff in the book is also based on scientific experimentation. That is how scientists evaluate stuff, according to the conventional rules of reality.
I agree @xplorer its an excellent book. Being able to identify how you react from a level1 or level2 perspective is vitally important to trading. When I feel impulsive I simply stop what Im doing because clearly I havent thought something through. The chatter is always present and always will be. There is no controlling it but it can be used as a signal service and its actually quite a reliable source of information too!
On this topic I don't think we differ much. Questions of ultimate truth and reality are above our ability to answer, and asking them only frustrates. I am just as fascinated by the science and the art of thinking about these topics as anyone, but I don't kid myself that the answer or the messiah exists. It's no different to our search for chart patterns, some are pragmatically real, many are just the next illusory oasis that disappears as soon as the next bar appears.
Using 'best-fit' models is all we can do, and the S1-S2 description is certainly one of the more useful we have for the human condition.
I believe you disagreed with me first
Great to have discussions like this. A topic I love.
On a sidenote it is half time on the England Croatia soccer game and think Ive drawn a parallel between soccer and trading. Im watching this game and wandering why the hell the England players keep going backwards, they keep kicking the ball back to goalie and its frustrating ... attack damnit whats wrong with you people?
Then I realised that every opponent they manage to draw out of position, they 'create' an extra attacking player when the kick goes back up field. Similar to trading. When traders want to bust a move through a level they dribble the market in the opposite direction pulling in opposing traders and generating stops. When they are ready and have enough traders out of position they have a run at the defensive line and if they manage to show sufficient force - the opponents close positions and all those stops help propel the market in the attackers favour.
I found Thinking Fast and Slow interesting because I believe that it fits with my own experience of reality: I find that if I confront myself with a model that offers an S1 and S2 paradigm I am better able to relate to my day to day behaviour. That is my explanation of why I think it fits. 
and its actually quite a reliable source of information too!