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Account blown up
Updated: Views / Replies:17,813 / 155
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:2

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Account blown up

  #131 (permalink)
Elite Member
Detroit, Michigan, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7 w/EW and MG
Favorite Futures: CL and ES (sometimes)
 
t0030tr's Avatar
 
Posts: 60 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 14 given, 47 received


lemons View Post
If you are beginner and don't know how to trade,
don't know how to make money then starting from 2 day
after you have practiced 1 day clicking on damn trading platform
is not intelligent move.

Do you think 1st year medical students start operate on live people
or do they first practice on donated dead bodies ?

I see direct relationship. My successful start on TST live account is based
years COMBINE ( TST SIM ) trading.

Yes it toke longer that expected.
And the route from sim to live shoud have been shorter.
I made all the classic mistakes.

SUCCESS THOUGHT THE PROCESS OF ELIMINATION


There is my results for first 16 days.
By the way my own trading rules are even tighter then TST demands.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Nice..

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  #132 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York City + New York/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 19 since May 2014
Thanks: 12 given, 11 received

I have been trading for about 2 years and have blown up about 4 accounts, always due to overtrading. Discipline is so key in this business.

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  #133 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,892 since Apr 2012
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mangolassi View Post
Who cares? Sim trading does nothing for real practice, which comes from putting real money on the line and learning skills WHILE building psychology.

Medical students are simply reading and studying, and the cadaver serves the purpose of learning gross anatomy. Medical residents in surgery, on the other hand, start their real learning at the live operating table under the guidance of seasoned surgeons. They don't learn real skills in the simulator, or in medical school. Residency training in surgery is real.

Do you consider back-testing and simming the same thing? Would you consider back-testing pointless as well?

Would you rather a surgeon not study and start simply in residency training?

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  #134 (permalink)
Elite Member
Baltimore MD US
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ
 
DeadCatBounced's Avatar
 
Posts: 283 since Apr 2013
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Is there a difference between someone who sim trades for years and years and years and never goes live, and the person who sim trades for a couple months. Goes live, experiences a blowout or large drawdown. Realizes what he needs to work on. Goes back to sim trading to work on those problems and then goes live again?

For the person who is just simming away year after year I don't see the value in that. But I can see the value in someone who has experienced live market conditions and goes back to sim, taking it very seriously to figure out what they need to do.

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  #135 (permalink)
Elite Member
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: corded black telephone
Favorite Futures: ticker tape
 
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DeadCatBounced View Post
Is there a difference between someone who sim trades for years and years and years and never goes live, and the person who sim trades for a couple months. Goes live, experiences a blowout or large drawdown. Realizes what he needs to work on. Goes back to sim trading to work on those problems and then goes live again?

For the person who is just simming away year after year I don't see the value in that. But I can see the value in someone who has experienced live market conditions and goes back to sim, taking it very seriously to figure out what they need to do.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Losing money live does teach a trader something, but one can't keep losing the same amount of money testing out what they think might or might not work. Sim or no sim, there needs to be some sort of re-evaluation phase either simming, back-testing, or trading incredibly small sized trades to the point the losses don't really affect the account size. I would consider the latter to be simming to a certain extent before consistency or growth is attained considering the results of such small size is simulation for larger proportionate size.


Last edited by Itchymoku; May 22nd, 2015 at 09:48 AM.
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  #136 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Boston, MA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: N225M (Osaka), ES
 
Posts: 165 since Dec 2014
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Itchymoku View Post
Do you consider back-testing and simming the same thing? Would you consider back-testing pointless as well?

Would you rather a surgeon not study and start simply in residency training?

Of course the studying is done first - medical school is the studying of basic science and general observation of some specialties, then if you become a surgeon you will go through a residency which DOES consist of studying behind the simulator - but there is only so much stuff you can do with that.

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  #137 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Kansas City, MO U.S.
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ToS, Ninja
Favorite Futures: ES, Currency, Tacos
 
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Posts: 211 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 301 given, 118 received

At some point you do have to make the leap. I think the best way to not fuck yourself is put a trailing stop on your own equity. So you kick yourself back to sim before you actually blow up. Or even just take time off if that seems to be more in order. I do think, though, if this is what you want to do, you shouldn't give up. And you shouldn't trade with negative emotional capital (I can't recall who coined that one but it's a good phrase), either. If anything, trading is about acceptance, more than it is about anything else.

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  #138 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, New York, United States
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: Options
 
vitrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 53 since Jul 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 6 received

Everyone has their own style as well as different situations in life. There are so many very deep emotions regarding people's relationships with money and everyone learns at their own pace.

While people give analogies to go against simulating, I can think of athletes that practice their swing, throw, lift, run thousands and thousands of times before becoming a professional. Trading with real money gives experience with one's attachment to the money, but doesn't allow the trader to develop their technique.

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  #139 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, New York, United States
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: Options
 
vitrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 53 since Jul 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 6 received


nourozi View Post
Yea, I didn't mean it literally. The trader you traded with could also be profitable. You don't buy and sell from the exact same trader. You buy from one, and sell to another. Hence, your trade being profitable does not rely on the other traders trade being at a loss.

BUT, considering the % of players who are long term profitable, It's more like for every win, there are 5 losses...

Anyway, that's another thread.

That's an extremely interesting concept that I thought about before. How many hands did that that asset, contract, etc. go through and how many people lost money for that 1 winner? How many commissions were paid? It's pretty crazy to me.

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  #140 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.probabletrades.com 
OC, California, USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB/TWS, NinjaTrader, thinkorswim
Favorite Futures: stocks, options, futures, VIX
 
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Posts: 1,860 since Jun 2009
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My $0.02


I've never blown up an account, i.e., taken account down to a cash balance that was untradeable, but I have had a few large losses that resulted in margin calls and/or being numb for several days, leading me to stop trading or just cash out my account in surrender.

The most memorable one was the last time I did this. At the time I was trading money I got from a credit card cash advance 0% interest for 12 months. I figured any idiot can make more than 0% in 12 months so I went for it. It took me a while to pay that back but at least I've gotten trading loss write-offs from on my taxes for years. It was primarily from selling naked options on 3x levered ETFs like FAS/FAZ during the height of the 2008/2009 financial crisis. I was collecting fat juicy premiums for a while and then the market went hard against me. The funny thing is that if I could have just held on for another day or two I would have made a sweet profit. I was margin called right before the bottom of the market on March 9th, 2009. I was trading way too much risk. Shortly after that I discovered Ninjatrader and BigMike's blog.

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