Account blown up - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Account blown up
Updated: Views / Replies:17,812 / 155
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:2

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 2  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Account blown up

  #91 (permalink)
Elite Member
milwaukee,wi, usa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Mobile TWS & mobile TOS. Dough.com
Broker/Data: IB, TOS, FXCM
Favorite Futures: futures and options. looking into forex
 
lrfsdad's Avatar
 
Posts: 186 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 302 given, 160 received


ron99 View Post
and I'm debt free.

Funny how money takes on a different meaning when u reach this point. Should almost be a prerequisite to trading on margin. Especially in futures.

I've blown an account or two. First was after a guy in a cowboy hat sold me a course buying 123 tops/bottoms. First trade was corn and I made money.(this was the late 90's so paper trading was the way to learn)$1200 profit I think. Easy. Then I lost that in pork bellies. "So the money is gone?" I remember asking the broker. Then I kept buying "deep out of the money options" (this is the opposite of how @ron99 makes his money) till the money was gone. Every time I had a couple hundred bucks laying around I would send it in to buy a lottery ticket.

There was also the time I took a $1000 acct to 10k then back to just over 1000. I closed the acct and decided I did better than if a savings acct. the wins were in cotton and I think cattle futures going with the trend. I probably ignored this fact when I placed the eventually losing trades.

Then there was the time not long after I was married, I opened a trade station account and traded live with a strategy after I optimized it. Yeah, that money is gone too. I remember watching $800 disappear in seconds cause I pushed the wrong button during the nfp report. I think I told my wife over the phone about that one.

Somewhere in this time line my broker convinced me selling options wasn't a bad idea. I did good during 07 08 selling es strangles in my Ira. Volatility was so high I remember collecting around $1000 for an es 500 or 600put. Ahh the good ole days.

I eventually lost my job due to the recession and pissed away almost 2 years trying to day trade on sim. Es only ticked up and didn't give many opportunities for back and forth trading so switched to cl. Never got successful with what I thought was a method. There was even a couple of times I felt so good about a setup that I took it in my Ira only to lose money.

Everything I do now is cash secured. I do a lot of options and stocks. I'm self employed and manage my accounts from my phone during the day. Using options I can for lack of a better term, "un fuck myself" from a losing position.

I should probably note that the drawdown ' s in my business account to pay suppliers, overhead, etc while waiting for payment has probably made me somewhat immune to drawdown ' s in my trading acct.


Last edited by lrfsdad; April 3rd, 2015 at 12:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to lrfsdad for this post:
 
  #92 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Vancouver Island, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: T4, Ninja, MetaTrader, IB, Oanda
Favorite Futures: Oil
 
Posts: 36 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 87 given, 86 received

Topstep combine?


Big Mike View Post
I think the whole sim argument is very painful to a lot of people because it basically means they must give up on their dream to be a trader.

There is a large group of people that have been on sim for a long time, months, years. They have no business trading, but they like to think they do -- it is a dream of theirs, which is certainly understandable.

By advocating that sim is virtually worthless as a learning tool, people can't reconcile that with still achieving their dreams to become a trader one day.

The fact is, the majority of people are not good traders and are not cut out to make it in this business. It is a very harsh reality, but there is no denying it. Unfortunately, everyone thinks they are the exception to the rule.

If you want to be the exception to the rule, then you have to be put yourself in a competitive position. That means being sufficiently capitalized, and having sufficient real trading experience (again, sim does not count).

You don't have to take my word for it. Everyone that goes from sim to cash loses money, no matter how much of a rock star they were on sim. It's my belief (as I said before) the longer you are on sim, the worse you condition your mind for bad behavior and thus the more likely you are to fail as a real trader. Again, you don't have to take my word for it, it's been proven countless times before. You have to look no further than countless journals on futures.io (formerly BMT).

The entire point I am making -- sim trading is not trading education. The real education is obtained once you start trading cash. You do not need to risk your monthly salary. Just start by risking a small amount and get off sim.

Mike

Mike,

First off this is an excellent topic and thread. I don't want to high jack it off topic, but based on your above response I would appreciate your feedback if this would also apply to taking a combine at Topstep where there is something on the line.

Thank,
Yukoner

Ps. My big blow up happened while living overseas trading full time ... Then 2008 hit... And not only did the markets go nuts, but I got sick and on drugs all the while trading, but losing an average of a couple thousand every day... Just watched my accounts shrink. Finally in a fit of frustration, I emailed my broker and had all funds in the largest account wired back to Canada... 45 mins later, I called them and cancelled it.

Went on to lose some more thousands... Finally, finally stopped trading... Left with about $25,000 in my accounts. Months later I went back and looked at history, and almost from the day of taking prednisone you could see the equity curve start to drop... Sad story.

Now, I am just working to build back my confidence as a trader and get over that 2008 trauma.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Yukoner for this post:
 
  #93 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dallas, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: AAPL, /ES, IWM, SPY Options
 
Posts: 208 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 440 given, 101 received



lrfsdad View Post
Funny how money takes on a different meaning when u reach this point. Should almost be a prerequisite to trading on margin. Especially in futures.

I've blown an account or two. First was after a guy in a cowboy hat sold me a course buying 123 tops/bottoms. First trade was corn and I made money.(this was the late 90's so paper trading was the way to learn)$1200 profit I think. Easy. Then I lost that in pork bellies. "So the money is gone?" I remember asking the broker. Then I kept buying "deep out of the money options" (this is the opposite of how @ron99 makes his money) till the money was gone. Every time I had a couple hundred bucks laying around I would send it in to buy a lottery ticket.

There was also the time I took a $1000 acct to 10k then back to just over 1000. I closed the acct and decided I did better than if a savings acct. the wins were in cotton and I think cattle futures going with the trend. I probably ignored this fact when I placed the eventually losing trades.

Then there was the time not long after I was married, I opened a trade station account and traded live with a strategy after I optimized it. Yeah, that money is gone too. I remember watching $800 disappear in seconds cause I pushed the wrong button during the nfp report. I think I told my wife over the phone about that one.

Somewhere in this time line my broker convinced me selling options wasn't a bad idea. I did good during 07 08 selling es strangles in my Ira. Volatility was so high I remember collecting around $1000 for an es 500 or 600put. Ahh the good ole days.

I eventually lost my job due to the recession and pissed away almost 2 years trying to day trade on sim. Es only ticked up and didn't give many opportunities for back and forth trading so switched to cl. Never got successful with what I thought was a method. There was even a couple of times I felt so good about a setup that I took it in my Ira only to lose money.

Everything I do now is cash secured. I do a lot of options and stocks. I'm self employed and manage my accounts from my phone during the day. Using options I can for lack of a better term, "un fuck myself" from a losing position.

I should probably note that the drawdown ' s in my business account to pay suppliers, overhead, etc while waiting for payment has probably made me somewhat immune to drawdown ' s in my trading acct.

Thanks for your story. I trade cash secure options also and it has taken me years to work some of my positions back to break even from 2008. Using margin incorrectly and being over leveraged have attributed to many blown accounts.

Reply With Quote
 
  #94 (permalink)
Elite Member
Toronto, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Questrade
Broker/Data: Questrade
Favorite Futures: Options
 
Posts: 99 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 190 given, 25 received

I blew up my account twice in the past and almost blew it up again just recently.

The first time, I didn't do any research at all. I had about $1500 and I just wanted to be in the stock market. I got exactly what I got out of it though as I used that money to help me learn more about the stock market. I learned well alright. I blew that account by not looking properly at the companies I was investing in. Bought a company that was well on its way down and when it went down, I bought more of it. It was only after it went bankrupt did I find out that they had a huge debt that they couldn't pay and they weren't making a profit on their business.

Second time was when I was still fairly new to options trading. I took a big gamble based on my biased view of a company and took a position that I couldn't exit if things went against me. Things went against me and I couldn't get out. Blew up $15-16k that I had managed to work my way up to.

I almost blew it again recently. I mean...I know that a lot of the markets I was going into had entered a consolidation phase and that for my trading style was a bad thing. But I ignored the signs and kept going in and making a lot of losing trades. And then for a bit, I just froze being unable to take action while I was sitting on a loser. Thankfully, the lesson I learned from busting the second time, saved me in time to still remain in the game. It also taught me a valuable lesson as well about getting a big head. Also I feel like if the market starts to consolidate again, I'll be more likely to stay out of it.

Reply With Quote
 
  #95 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Singapore Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: X-Trader
Favorite Futures: Nikkei 225 Futures
 
Posts: 17 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 17 given, 59 received

Big Daily Losses Just As Devastating, Lost 20% Today


JacLau View Post
I lost control and blew up my trading account 3 times.

I started trading SGX derivatives full time from mid 2004 with S$200K capital after being retrenched at age 42 from my Engineering job with Chevron in Singapore. 1 USD = 1.37 S$ (SGD).

I made money 7 out of the last 10 years. My total net profits from 2005 to 2014 is about S$1,288,000.

On 15 Feb 2007. I lost S$191K trading SGX MSCI Singapore Index futures. After trading for 2 years, I had zero profits and about S$70K of savings left to support a family with 2 young kids. Lowest point in my life.

On 30 Apr 2009, I lost S$224K trading SGX MSCI Taiwan Index futures and another S$116K the next trading day on 04 May 2009. Total S$340K in two consecutive trading days. I surrendered my life insurance policy the next week, and an investment condominium a month later, to raise additional trading capital after the loss.

On 16 Nov 2012 I lost S$570K trading SGX Nikkei 225 Index futures. Although my trading account was not completely wiped out, unlike the previous two major losses, I forced myself to take a temporary break from trading to reassess my situation. As a result of this major loss, my net trading income over the last 6 years, from 2009 to 2014 is next to nothing.

There were two other "near miss" trading days where my trading account had floating losses that exceeded my trading capital but the market recovered and I had profits at the end of the trading session.

On Tuesday 15 Mar 2011, after Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan said a “substantial amount” of radiation was leaking from a nuclear power plant affected by the Mar 11 massive earthquake and tsunami, the floating losses on my Nikkei 225 long positions touched S$2.5 million, roughly twice more than what I had in my trading account. At the end of the trading session I made S$120K. It was the most frightening day in my life, more scary than the time I got robbed at gun point in Phnom Penh a few years earlier.

I continue to trade daily, with a S$100K account presently, focusing mainly on Nikkei 225 Index futures. My daily profit seldom exceed S$500 per trading day, nowadays.

I am 100% certain I can lose every cent in my trading account again.

I had 33 trading days where I lost more than S$20K a day.

Total losses from my 33 greater than S$20K losing days is about S$1,093,000 (excluding the S$191K, S$340K & S$570K account blew up losses).

This morning I shorted 4 lots HSI, 3 lots Mini HSI, 2 lots HHI and 3 lots Mini HHI futures.

I lost about 20% of my S$100K trading account after I liquidated all my HSI/HHI shorts.

HSI futures opened at 26711, up 467 pts from its 26244 previous day close and traded one way up another 1288 pts within 15 mins from the spot/cash market open to a high of 27999.

At the peak, the floating losses from my HSI & HHI shorts is about 3 times more than my realized S$22.5K loss.

I could have escaped with profits, had I been able to hang on to my losers until they turned green.

Time for me to give up?


Last edited by JacLau; April 9th, 2015 at 11:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to JacLau for this post:
 
  #96 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, TOS
Broker/Data: Inifinity Futures, TOS
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 1,048 given, 198 received


JacLau View Post
...Time for me to give up?

I'm afraid so, Jac. You have already convinced yourself that you'll blow up this account too, based on your earlier post in this thread.

Reply With Quote
 
  #97 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Singapore Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: X-Trader
Favorite Futures: Nikkei 225 Futures
 
Posts: 17 since Dec 2014
Thanks: 17 given, 59 received


fourtiwinks View Post
I'm afraid so, Jac. You have already convinced yourself that you'll blow up this account too, based on your earlier post in this thread.

Either give up 11 years or screen time or try to make more money between the big daily losses.

I seldom trade HSI/HHI futures and this is the first time I went all in. I would have been profitable if I had scalped yesterday instead of selling and holding for more profits. I had about S$1.5K floating profit on my initial HSI/HHI shorts yesterday before the cash market opens. That S$1.5K floating profit which I did not take could have influenced my thinking and contributed to my eventual S$22.5K loss on my HSI/HHI shorts yesterday.

My HSI sell and hold strategy would have rewarded me handsomely today but I did not trade the open. I told myself to be patient and wait for prices to shoot through the roof like it did yesterday before selling. End up missing the entire 722 pts HSI move from its 27600 open to 26878 low this morning.

11 years of learning and training is still not enough or is this trading business today not fo me, nor matter how hard I try?


Last edited by JacLau; April 10th, 2015 at 04:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to JacLau for this post:
 
  #98 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Vancouver Island, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: T4, Ninja, MetaTrader, IB, Oanda
Favorite Futures: Oil
 
Posts: 36 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 87 given, 86 received


JacLau View Post
Either give up 11 years or screen time or try to make more money between the big daily losses.

I seldom trade HSI/HHI futures and this is the first time I went all in. I would have been profitable if I had scalped yesterday instead of selling and holding for more profits. I had about S$1.5K floating profit on my initial HSI/HHI shorts yesterday before the cash market opens. That S$1.5K floating profit which I did not take could have influenced my thinking and contributed to my eventual S$22.5K loss on my HSI/HHI shorts yesterday.

My HSI sell and hold strategy would have rewarded me handsomely today but I did not trade the open. I told myself to be patient and wait for prices to shoot through the roof like it did yesterday before selling. End up missing the entire 722 pts HSI move from its 27600 open to 26878 low this morning.

11 years of learning and training is still not enough or is it this trading business today not fo me, nor matter how hard I try?

Try this... give yourself a daily loss limit that for no reason can be exceeded. Work with that restriction as a friend who sits next to you trading, and wants the best for you the next day, and will protect you.

Secondly, you need to trade smaller... much smaller... until you can get a grip on yourself and show consistent repeatable following of your trading plan. I know that is hard, and I remember when I was trading big size all leveraged up with millions and thinking that was the way to trade... because I would take it more serious, or I could make back all my losses.

Yeah, it for sure isn't the way to trade.


Rather you have to humble yourself and trade very small (maybe 10% of what you are currently trading with)... you have to get back to the basics.... you must have consistent repeatable trading actions so that the merits of your trading plan can be fairly judged.... you have to journal each day what is happening so you can discover your blind spots.
If you can make it small, then you can power up larger...

You want to be a professional trader, then think and act like one in everything you do.

Good Trades,
Yukoner

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Yukoner for this post:
 
  #99 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, TOS
Broker/Data: Inifinity Futures, TOS
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 206 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 1,048 given, 198 received


JacLau View Post
... ...11 years of learning and training is still not enough or is this trading business today not fo me, nor matter how hard I try?

Sorry to hear that Jac. I remembered you used to post in the AFACT forum before it was hacked. You gave some good advice about trading then, so I hope you still held on to them.

11 years is a long time and you have far more years of trading experience than me. Unfortunately, if you're still struggling with success in trading, then you may wish to step back for a while to re-charge.. or trade smaller as Yukoner has suggested (very good advice imho).


Yukoner View Post
...Secondly, you need to trade smaller... much smaller... until you can get a grip on yourself and show consistent repeatable following of your trading plan... Rather you have to humble yourself and trade very small (maybe 10% of what you are currently trading with)... you have to get back to the basics.... you must have consistent repeatable trading actions so that the merits of your trading plan can be fairly judged.... you have to journal each day what is happening so you can discover your blind spots.
If you can make it small, then you can power up larger...

You want to be a professional trader, then think and act like one in everything you do.

Good Trades,
Yukoner

You may also check out this thread, which is the type of trading that Big Mike supports:
https://futures.io/index-futures-trading/13452-es-s-p-500-futures-contract-sp500-spoo-nalysis-1624.html

Don't be disheartened, but take good care of your trading psychology. To state openly that you're 100% certain that you can blow up this account seems to reflect a losing mentality, not an heightened awareness that one needs to respect the markets.

Reply With Quote
 
  #100 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg, Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 491 since May 2012
Thanks: 1,641 given, 1,126 received



JacLau View Post
I had 33 trading days where I lost more than S$20K a day.

Total losses from my 33 greater than S$20K losing days is about S$1,093,000 (excluding the S$191K, S$340K & S$570K account blew up losses).

This morning I shorted 4 lots HSI, 3 lots Mini HSI, 2 lots HHI and 3 lots Mini HHI futures.

I lost about 20% of my S$100K trading account after I liquidated all my HSI/HHI shorts.

HSI futures opened at 26711, up 467 pts from its 26244 previous day close and traded one way up another 1288 pts within 15 mins from the spot/cash market open to a high of 27999.

At the peak, the floating losses from my HSI & HHI shorts is about 3 times more than my realized S$22.5K loss.

I could have escaped with profits, had I been able to hang on to my losers until they turned green.

Time for me to give up?

Hi Jac,

Your numbers scare the living hell out of me. If I may ask, why do you feel the need to trade in such size? I mean we are not talking about the typical $10k account here. With the type of volatility you expose yourself to, it is going to be extremely difficult to avoid the effects of greed and fear. I mean, I get nervous when my account is down more than 2% for the day. I don't know how I would react if I had such large daily losses.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > Account blown up

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blown off Futures Demo account. futurestrader7 NinjaTrader 4 February 25th, 2014 07:34 PM
Can I use a Ninja demo account to trade with a live web-based account? budfox NinjaTrader 23 July 16th, 2013 08:49 AM
paper account real account interactive brokers Mehdi IB Trader Workstation 15 January 6th, 2012 12:16 PM
BP Hopes to Keep Blown Well Capped, but US Cautious Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 July 18th, 2010 04:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:09 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.22 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.91.38.173