NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Multiple non-correlating strategies or portfolio


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 10 posts (1 thanks)
    2. looks_two MXASJ with 7 posts (6 thanks)
    3. looks_3 darthtrader3.6 with 3 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 baruchs with 3 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one GoldStandard with 1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two sam028 with 1 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 MXASJ with 0.9 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Big Mike with 0.1 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 9,035 views
    2. thumb_up 10 thanks given
    3. group 6 followers
    1. forum 27 posts
    2. attach_file 4 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Multiple non-correlating strategies or portfolio

  #11 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,444 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,217
Thanks Received: 101,608


baruchs View Post
Mike,
Thats exactly what I was saying in .
I was even more bold and said that if you trade several setups, you will be better off even with a loosing setup. I wanted to prove this point, but got some stupid posts so I left it.
Thats why I'm against scaling. In the best scenario (both PT give positive outcome on their own) they have very strong correlation.

Baruch

You have to give some of us dumber people a chance to catch up

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
How to apply profiles
Traders Hideout
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
33 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
28 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
23 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
21 thanks
  #12 (permalink)
 MXASJ 
Asia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS
Posts: 796 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 109
Thanks Received: 800


Big Mike View Post
MX,

So your saying that using Kelly you can't find a mathematically sound risk/reward for intraday trading, which is why you need larger time frames and therefore more capital due to the increased volatility of a multi-day trade?

...

I'll read your PDF next MX. Hopefully there is minimal math

Mike

Well, no. I'm saying that the strategies I'm using for intraday trading no longer have a positive expectancy, so my bet is $0 on those strategies. I'm 75% in the longer time-frame stuff right now, while I work on finding some intraday strategies that work again. So its a question of my ability at this point in time rather than a question of whether short-term trading works at this point in time.

And... that PDF is an easy one .

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)
 baruchs 
Israel
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: pfg
Trading: eminis
Posts: 323 since Jun 2009


Mike,
Its OK to argue with me or to ask an explanation, but to state some stupid remarks is also OK (we need stupid traders to make money), only I'm out of this thread.

Baruch

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)
 MXASJ 
Asia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS
Posts: 796 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 109
Thanks Received: 800

If you look at the strategies I've posted over the past few months you will see there is a method behind my madness :

Faber(2009): Momentum, Monthly, Basket of Futures or ETFs, Long only.
Kleinman(2005): Momentum, Daily, Basket of Futures, Long and Short.
PimpMyStrat: Momentum, Intraday, Individual Futures, Long or Short.
NinjaSpreader: Mean reversion/Market Microstrucure, Intraday, Futures, Long and Short.
NinjaSpreaderEOD: Mean reversion, Daily, Individual Futures or ETFs, Long and Short.

So when they (or something simlar) actually works, that's a basket of strategies diversified over time frame, style, and asset type. One of the next steps would be to find a way to dynamically watch my deltas (or beta-weighted deltas) for hedging purposes if needed.

That is actually a seperate project where I want to get several Ninja Trader processes running on seperate machines to report positions to a central database on the same LAN. If everything decided to be long the ES at the same time, for example, I would definately want to know that.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #15 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,444 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,217
Thanks Received: 101,608


MXASJ View Post
If you look at the strategies I've posted over the past few months you will see there is a method behind my madness :

Faber(2009): Momentum, Monthly, Basket of Futures or ETFs, Long only.
Kleinman(2005): Momentum, Daily, Basket of Futures, Long and Short.
PimpMyStrat: Momentum, Intraday, Individual Futures, Long or Short.
NinjaSpreader: Mean reversion/Market Microstrucure, Intraday, Futures, Long and Short.
NinjaSpreaderEOD: Mean reversion, Daily, Individual Futures or ETFs, Long and Short.

So when they (or something simlar) actually works, that's a basket of strategies diversified over time frame, style, and asset type. One of the next steps would be to find a way to dynamically watch my deltas (or beta-weighted deltas) for hedging purposes if needed.

That is actually a seperate project where I want to get several Ninja Trader processes running on seperate machines to report positions to a central database on the same LAN. If everything decided to be long the ES at the same time, for example, I would definately want to know that.

First idea that came to my head was to have each strategy send its orders to a gateway, then the gateway knows everything. You could even have the strategy ask permission from the gateway before trading, or if you are super wild then the strategies themselves don't contain any EnterXX() commands and instead use custom commands to send orders to the gateway server, which then submits all orders and controls all positions for all strategies.

I will take a closer look at your other strats. I know you've done some great work, and I appreciate it!

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)
 MXASJ 
Asia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS
Posts: 796 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 109
Thanks Received: 800


Big Mike View Post
First idea that came to my head was to have each strategy send its orders to a gateway, then the gateway knows everything. You could even have the strategy ask permission from the gateway before trading, or if you are super wild then the strategies themselves don't contain any EnterXX() commands and instead use custom commands to send orders to the gateway server, which then submits all orders and controls all positions for all strategies.

Mike

On the broker side I can set that up on a per account basis as the broker has a risk package that can limit positions. If I ask for it I can have multiple accounts and a "dashboard" to monitor those accounts (this is using TT or PATS infrastructure) which may or may not come at a cost.

My problem is that I'll be using more than one broker, on a WAN.

That is something to keep in mind, BTW. Your orders always go through your clearing houses' risk system before they go to the exchange. If I have a server in Chicago and my broker is in Singapore... ouch.

Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,444 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,217
Thanks Received: 101,608


MXASJ View Post
On the broker side I can set that up on a per account basis as the broker has a risk package that can limit positions. If I ask for it I can have multiple accounts and a "dashboard" to monitor those accounts (this is using TT or PATS infrastructure) which may or may not come at a cost.

My problem is that I'll be using more than one broker, on a WAN.

That is something to keep in mind, BTW. Your orders always go through your clearing houses' risk system before they go to the exchange. If I have a server in Chicago and my broker is in Singapore... ouch.

So probably best to do a co-lo or get a dedicated box or VPS near your broker/exchange, and run everything there, and just have it send you the info to your home network or wan after the fact, when milliseconds don't count.

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)
 philloo 
Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multichart
Posts: 43 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 27

HI, I find this topic very important. I made 4 strategy that have a little bit of difference between them and trade on the same symbol all for but not at the same time frame. I must say that the 4 are not corrolated to each other and only trade maximum 1 contrat a day on each strategy. ANd I must say that it work so far. I watch those 4 strategy back in june 2009 and no optimization at all and the result seam to be constant so far. The 4 strategy are pratictly 0 correlation. I think it's the a good way to go. I backtest on minute bar 10 year of data.

phil

Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)
 MXASJ 
Asia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS
Posts: 796 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 109
Thanks Received: 800


Big Mike View Post
So probably best to do a co-lo or get a dedicated box or VPS near your broker/exchange, and run everything there, and just have it send you the info to your home network or wan after the fact, when milliseconds don't count.

Mike

Exactly. So the multiple-Ninja-Instances on a LAN (the WAN connections are VPN so it is actually on the LAN subnet) reporting to a database with a dashboard is what I need to do.

Longer term, though.

And we digress from the OP's post!

Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)
 Little Joe 
nn
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Broker: IB
Trading: forex, futures
Posts: 13 since Dec 2009
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 17


BM, I am very impressed with your forums and the knowledge of it's partcipants.
Currently, I am managing 6 Uncorrelated* Forex strategies on NT 6.5 24/5. Trades about 10 rt per 24hrs. 7 pairs using multiple timeframes. A few things from my interpretation.

1. Correlation- currently GBPUSD & USDCAD -94 based on 60min timeframe.
-7 on a 15min timeframe. Overall a moving target and beyond my knowledge to
predict how long this will last. My answer= reduce risk, trade them both with
a few strats on different time frames. Will my bet size be optimal..no but I can
control risk say up to 6 independent positions all risking 0.5% of equity.

2. Position sizing - Since I have no clue which strategy will work today they all get
a feeding of between 0.25-0.5% of total equity risk. Summary = reduce risk.

3. My Landscaper - Discovered an underground spring on my property.. My response
"Damn it". His response don't fight it, work with it.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on April 5, 2010


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts