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Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading


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Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading

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  #1 (permalink)
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I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business.

First, notice I used the word business. Trading is a business! If you run it any other way, it's just gambling.

From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc.

Why do you think this happens?

I think that unless you are a trader yourself, it is about impossible to fully respect the emotional roller-coaster trader's experience, the psychological impact, the stress, the preparation required, the concentration, all of it.

So you cannot completely fault an outsider, even your wife or kids, for not being able to fully appreciate it. They can't, not until they are no longer an outsider!

Needless to say, trying to succeed in trading is hard enough without problems of lack of support from your loved ones.

I think there are a few angles to approach this from. One, if your family is not in a financially stable situation and you are "home all day playing on the computer" instead of out in the "real world looking for a job", then you can expect this is not a good situation and you have to understand that you are risking a lot for your own personal happiness.

But two/second, if you are in a somewhat stable situation, then it is possible your loved ones still do not appreciate or possibly even condone trading because they feel it is just a toy/hobby or even gambling, a "no win" situation, etc.

Assuming the second situation, one possible way to overcome this barrier is to involve your loved ones more. In fact, doing so will almost certainly dramatically improve your trading since most trading mistakes are due to psychological missteps, by thinking things through more carefully so you don't make mistakes when explaining them to others and look like a fool, you'll find that you're actually a much better trader for it.

The first two to three years of your trading business is probably a losing proposition in terms of your bank statement. That's true of any business of any nature. It's also true most businesses fail within two years, just as most traders do. Your wife and kids need to understand that this is a business, and just like if you opened a restaurant, or a fitness club, a computer/electronics storefront, any of these things --- they are all risks and require support as well as "leaps of faith" in order to be successful.

Just like you could hopefully turn to your wife and kids to support you in your new business venture of starting a "fitness club", and get them involved and make them feel like they are contributing, you can also do the same thing with trading!

Most families and outsiders think trading is pure gambling and frown on it. They think you are a degenerate for trading and spending your life savings or not looking out for your family. I think there are two extremes here -- one, it is possible to treat trading like a gambling addiction in which case you don't know when to stop. But it's also possible to treat trading like any normal business. If you started a coffee shop and invested 50k of your own money, and 3 years later it failed, most likely your wife and parents and friends would not disown you. However, in trading, they just might. It's a stigma.

Unless you are willing or capable of doing this on your own, the best way to combat this stigma is by involvement. Not just involvement for the sake of understanding of the complexities of trading by your loved ones, but involvement for the sake them better understanding the pleasure and joy it brings to your life. Most men would do anything for their wife and kids if they knew it would bring them joy and happiness, even at great financial cost. The same is true in reverse, your wife and kids need to give you some freedom and room to experience these things even at great financial cost.

So what are some of the better ways to involve your wife and kids? Well, I hope to hear from you guys! But here are some of my suggestions (although I'm not currently married, and have no kids!)

- Don't just make them watch. Give them something to do.
- What they do needs to have meaning. It needs to have an impact and even consequences.
- Make it consistent. If it is not consistent they cannot appreciate both up's and down's.
- Let them control some of their own trades. Sim at first, but move them to a small cash account. For kids, you can make it tangible (more for teenagers). Rewards for certain percentage gains like clothes, ipod, movies, xbox games, etc. For wife it can be stuff a bit more extravagant, like hit 'xx%' gain and we'll add that new deck in the backyard you wanted, or a weekend get-a-way trip for family, etc etc.

What do you guys think?

Mike

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  #3 (permalink)
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Mike,

Congrats man! It takes a great man to run this show and you're doing a great job, as always!

Wonderful topic! So, so important and highly present, and yet so hidden and not exposed.
I myself have struggled throughout my whole trading path with those things you're mentioning, and I believe you're putting the dot above the i, in a very complete way!

And yes it is very true. How come our loved ones never come to understand us, and our eternal struggle out there on the greatest battlefield ever created?

Well, I guess trading involves a lot of mysticism. Maybe we can understand this approach better by trying to become aware of our forgotten perspective on trading. Do you remember how you thought of trading before you became involved in it?

I myself saw it as some kind of alchemy. It looked very fascinating and, if I may confess, very easy to do as well. I mean, all you have to do is to buy low and sell high. And if you were unhappy enough to get acquainted to trading at the end of a great bull market, as most people do (there's actually a logic reason for that, but we can talk about that some other time). Then the game becomes even more difficult for you, because you've proven to yourself, that it is about buying low and selling high (that's the pattern of a bull market, everybody is making money in a great bull market).

Your loved ones, are actually there for you and with you for that matter. Even if they're not involved in the game, they're sitting on the bench watching the game as your greatest public applauding you.

Unfortunately, that's where the first bad brick is set. And what do I mean by that?
Well, they start to hope and pray for more of this wonderful alchemy happening in front of their eyes. The only problem here is the development of the traders future. We all know that, it definetelly gets worse before it gets better, and that the trader has to dive into his own darkest abbys before he/she starts to get back to the surface again.

That's when we start to lose our loved ones! And it's not because they don't love us. It's simply because we go on misleading them constantly.

Our greatest need here in life is the need for security. One of the ways to get that is through consistency. That's what a normal day job is offering us. Consistency that stands against our fears, pretty much based on lack. It's all about the money right?!
(if you're red my previous posts, then you'll know what I mean).

Unfortunately we delude our loved ones during this very dark period of our trading path, and believe me, it's highly involuntary. But we keep on asking them to believe in us, and to keep on supporting us.

That by itself, is a very, very difficult demand from someone that keeps watching failure after failure. Can we blame them? Well, you decide for yourself!

If we fail from a business, or if we fail by getting fired from a job, or whatever, then it is cemented into what's collectively accepted, and it is automatically accepted by everyone, because it is what it is. In other words it is possible, and that's the name of the game.

When we speak about trading, we do have to accept its mysticism and we have to recognize that it's is not like anything out there. Maybe that's what it takes, in order to survive through this game, and keep it all. Maybe it takes an extraordinary life partner.

But after all, what it takes is C O N S I S T E N C Y! That ought to be making everybody happy, including the trader him/herself.

And by the way, I love Mike's ideas, especially those about the kidds. If we as traders are recognizing a certain inclination in our kidds, that lends towards trading. My Goodness, just imagine yourself having someone taking your hand, and get you through that abbys, by keep on holding your hand. I mean we could create little trading Einstein's.

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #4 (permalink)
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Thanks George. I've seen several remarks/comments on the forum about traders teaching their kids to trade, and I think it's a good idea for a lot of reasons.

But there are many traders here on futures.io (formerly BMT), some who are now reading this thread hopefully, that need help. Their loved ones are not supporting them. They are still moving forward with trading, but they are now at an even bigger disadvantage than "normal".

What can these traders do in this situation? I know there has to be traders out there that have successfully involved their kids, their wife/spouse, etc in their trading and have some comments and tips on what worked well and what didn't. I'm also looking to learn how it changed your relationship and how it impacted your trading career and business.

I think some people are perhaps afraid to participate in the discussion. It is not logical, if I can summon Mr. Spock for a minute. You need to participate in order to learn and expand your own awareness and knowledge. If you know this to be a problem area in your relationship with your wife, kids, or other friends/loved ones, then you should proactively take steps to improve it. Unless of course you plan to just give up. And if you plan to give up then feel free to not post or reply, because giving up doesn't help anyone.

Mike

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  #5 (permalink)
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I think you have raised a very very important point here Mike, and delighted to see George put input into it; His section of the site is my most visited.

I don’t have any amazing story to say, just what I did. Firstly I am blessed that Sarah (my partner) is in no way material, all she wants is a happy home, doesn’t care how big the house or car is. I have one son from a previous relationship who stays every weekend.

When I started in this business, I like others I’m sure went in all guns blazing, placed a trade and it won and my attitude towards this craft was appalling if im honest. Anyway I blew an account needless to say, wasn’t massive but blew it anyway. I took some time out and reflected, I decided I wanted one more crack at it, it is what I wanted to do for a living, but this time do it right and listen to people. I spoke to Sarah and explained that it could take about 2 years to get into decent profit. I showed her things to do with trading , asked her to at least read a couple of books and not throw it out the window shall we say. Sarah agreed to emotionally support me, but on condition that if I blew this account I had to accept it was not for me and move on. That was the key to me that I had her emotional support and patience. How can you relax with the markets, get in the zone if the environment in which you live is not happy. When I was learning candles, I made flash cards and Sarah would test me, When I was learning harmonic numbers I again made flash cards and Sarah would test me, when I was running a sim account (I did this before I funded a second account) Sarah and me would go threw my trades in my journal and talk about how to improve. It was like she was learning with me. Now when she walks into my office she can see patterns better than me, i.e. this week she came in and pointed out a gartley setting up which I had missed! I have included Sarah in as much of my trading as she wants, we talk about it, talk about money management etc, but she understands the psychology importance of it. On the other hand I am very supportive of her career, and help and encourage in anyway I can. To get support it has to work both ways, you can’t just take and be selfish. What is important to your partner has to be important to you also.

Regarding my son, he also has a mini account and on weekends we spend an hour going over the weekly and daily charts for the £$ and Euro$, and on Monday I place his trade. We have games whilst doing the charts, and make it fun. I don’t think it is what he wants to do when he grows up, but he enjoys it for now, it is quality time for the two of us, and we make it fun, and throw in rewards. On the phone during the week he brings up the markets, he has a pc in his mums and has a platform on there which he looks at, I never bring up the markets in our conversations, he brings it up because it is fun to him, and he gets to buy things from his profit, but he is learning about money management at an early age, he knows about risking a percentage of his account per trade, and building his account. Its his part time job if I could call it that.

I wish I had a better story for you, but I am very lucky and have a very supporting family. I never had to fight to get it, it was there, I just had to explain, show and compromise

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  #6 (permalink)
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Hey Mike,

Good post / question.

I too am lucky enough to have a supportive wife. Kids are too young to get involved. I have not involved the wife with details, but she has a basic understanding of the psychological battle that takes place every day with trading. I have told her of good days, and of bad days (not as easy of course). We have laughed at a large number of days in which I told her if I would have just followed my rules, then blah blah blah...

I remind her and others that this is one of the only jobs which you can work hard all day, and not only not get paid, but actually pay to work.

There are some days I would hear my wife saying "follow your rules then", when considering a trade or managing one, and it would remind me to ask myself if I am following my plan as I should. And, surprise, there were times in which I was no where near my setup, was being impatient, etc.

I have to say, trading is pressure enough when putting real money on the line every day, and for me it is a great relief to have a supportive family.

I think a big part of it for me was the trust my wife had for me. When I told her how badly I wanted to trade as a career, and how I know I can do it consistently/profitably, even when having bad days; she still backed me up. She trusted me enough to know I would not put our family at risk simply because of my own selfishness. We would also discuss the pros/cons of trading, and how just like going to school or starting a business, and like you said, it will take time and money to "learn" what you need to be able to trade consistently.

Does your spouse trust you?

Do you trust yourself to be able to make the right decision not only for you, but for your family?

People with a day job who want to trade, take advantage while you have a consistent income, and be thankful for the income while you learn. I started trading futures while I still had a day job, lost my job unexpectedly, and that is when the pressure increased for obvious reasons, which made it much more difficult to follow my plan.

Anyway, I am getting off topic a bit..

In my opinion, if your spouse trusts you, and you can trust yourself to make the right decisions for your family, then you shouldn't be having issues. Be realistic with your expectations of yourself and your family, and step back once in a while and make sure you are on track as you imagined you would be when you started. Don't be afraid to go back to the day job until you can work out the issues. If you really want to trade, then you can see the long term picture, and realize there are many hurdles along the way.


Gary

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  #7 (permalink)
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When I first started in this business , it was my husband 's idea , he suggested I learn trading ( being a fast learner myself ) and then I will teach him later , I started with a 10K account , it was some savings that my husband put aside for a down payment , he was busy with his day job and I got busy trading , I started live trading only a week after being on this , the guy who taught me claimed that it was best to do it live then to do it on paper , I got lucky and made 2K the first week , no strategy just shorting the resistance and buying the support , no stop loss , no money management and the worst of all , averaging down on a loosing position , I blew up the account and stopped for a few months , I had to do some research trying to understand what was the best way to recover the money , in the meantime , my husband was getting impatient because the money did not come as fast as he thought , I felt guilty after what happened that I find it really hard pulling the trigger and getting back on the business , all the support that I had when I first started disappeared , I suffered alot psychologically because I felt like I gambled with the family's savings , I re-opened a small account again last september but my emotions where taking the lead , my husband lost all interest in this busy with his job and career , I am still struggling to find a way to show him that I can do it , my ego is hurt but I find my strength everyday in myself because I really believe that I can make it one day , I am sure that some of you can relate to my story , being a woman in this business is even harder because I have the responsibility of my kids , my house etc ...
I am working on it and I strongly believe that I will find a way ..

"Risk more than others think safe.
Dream more than others think practical.
Expect more than others think possible.
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  #8 (permalink)
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Its hard for me - the wife thinks I 'play' computer while she teaches my two (2) sons.
Stay in Malaysia +GMT 8 - didn't help either.. . I made the family knows that trading is a SERIOUS business. There occasions that the potential profits went in smoke when everybody 'yelling' right behind me- I trade near a living room. I dont want to explains much to them, I dont expect they understand now. Online trading is not a big 'culture' here....

To motivate them, I just say that the next new car depends on my TRADING profit. I made a white lie that I already profitable with about USD 500 yesterday ....and I barely have 6 months exp trading....

I had to convince myself that I will succeed in this business. A positive PnL certainly helps

I will change location to a special room for trading for a better environment and hope that Allah (the force) helps me in trading.

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Great post Mike,

since Trading is my passion and all i do is talking about trading reading about trading sometime even dreaming about trading (LOL) , i got my wife involved in trading.

two years ago i teaches my wife how to swing trade stock and today my wife in the R&D in our business.

she in charge on all daily chart for out Options and stock play and i am in charge on all our futures/day trading.

having your partner understanding and involving in what you do is very helpful , stress about how your family react when you have a down day is out of the equation

you have your best friend(your wife) brainstorming with you about what will to do next
and has you know woman have more disciplined approach so this help too.

what i am trying to say is having a family business make it easier for me

Ben

Keep on sowing your seed, for you never know which will grow -- perhaps it all will.

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  #10 (permalink)
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re:
I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business.

First, notice I used the word business. Trading is a business! If you run it any other way, it's just gambling.

From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc.

Why do you think this happens?

I think that unless you are a trader yourself, it is about impossible to fully respect the emotional roller-coaster trader's experience, the psychological impact, the stress, the preparation required, the concentration, all of it.

So you cannot completely fault an outsider, even your wife or kids, for not being able to fully appreciate it. They can't, not until they are no longer an outsider!


I don't want to take this off track...but the business aspect of this to me is crucial. Everyone is at a different stage of this process. 1st - are you personally emotionally and financially ready to have your own business? Have you ever worked on commission before? Where is your spouse or partner in this process? What is their security level like when you are paid for performance vs a salary? What level of success do you envision your business obtaining. Are you going to have a weekend lemonade stand or a full time career (pay the bills) type of business. If you chose the 2nd option...have you approached the process as you would any serious career. Trading is similar to other professions in many aspects. If you want the upper levels of success you will have to put in comparable effort/resources/planning. I think the lack of respect given by spouses or the stigma associated with "day trading" is when you don't start out respecting the craft yourself and treat it as a lottery ticket or a weekend lemonade stand and say "well let's see how this works out...."

You can make more money trading than any doctors in the world... do you think that someone can just say I think I want to be a doctor..."let's see how that works out... I'll learn it from the internet." What would your spouse think of this idea...would they respect it? Would they want you to put what they see as the family nest egg at risk for it?
Now let's say you don't have much capital or education but you look your spouse in the eye and say - My life's dream is to be a doctor. I know this will take a lot of sacrifice from both of us and I am willing to do this but I need your help. We will have hard times but quit isn't in me. When we come out the other side...and we will...we will be in a wonderful place economically and emotionally. Here is the plan I have worked out...Will you work with me to make this happen?

little different, huh? I feel like Dr Phil


You need -
a plan and a path involving education, capital, and consistent plan execution. If you treat your business seriously then your spouse will also. Be realistic. Trading has to be your baby and the way you personally trade will most likely have to be something you come up with on your own. If you were able to buy a "trading franchise" what would it cost? What would your risk be? How long until you would be profitable? Does your partner understand this concept or are you just shutting yourself up in a room with a large computer and your 401k money and telling your spouse don't worry about it...you are going to "make it". uh-huh. That stressed me out just typing that.

Here is what a McDonald's franchise takes to get started...
Purchasing Your Franchise - About McDonald's
An initial down payment is required when you purchase a new restaurant (40% of the total cost) or an existing restaurant (25% of the total cost). The down payment must come from non-borrowed personal resources, which include cash on hand; securities, bonds, and debentures; vested profit sharing (net of taxes); and business or real estate equity, exclusive of your personal residence.
Since the total cost varies from restaurant to restaurant, the minimum amount for a down payment will vary. Generally, we require a minimum of $500,000 of non-borrowed personal resources to consider you for a franchise.


and the whole thing might just go flop bad location or whatever...sorry about your luck...thanks for playing. Are you ready for that?

Maybe your wife doesn't want a part of this but you might be surprised. Try a bring your spouse to work day and have them sit with you as you trade... It is an interesting experience trading places. They will build confidence watching you...think it's easy, etc. "So I just buy on green sell on red, huh? That's what you've been doing in here all this time....?" but when you let them do it on their own on a small cash account all of a sudden all the emotional aspects that they had no idea about will come into play. This is where it gets fun. You will learn all kinds of stuff by watching someone else trade. I have never traded around someone else and get a real kick out of this.

Imagine having a business of some sort and then having someone you know and trust but that doesn't know the business come in and try to run it. Most likely you will reaffirm why you do things the way you do them... but if you are clever you just might pick up a different way of looking at things. Fresh eyes on the problem. This really works. I guarantee someone who doesn't know indicators (and doesn't care to) will quickly get rid of the useless ones you have been hanging on to for sentimental reasons. It goes like this - "what does this squiggly thing at the bottom do" Well honey that's the stochastic indicator and it tells you if the price is too high or too low...we in the business call it overbought and oversold. "neat - does it work all the time?" well no. "can you take it off the chart" um yeah ok alright....

sooooo. after all the business talk.
you got teenagers? They play xbox? whadda you think ninjatrader is? It's just a big video game. Give'em a sim account and see if they beat you at the game. If they do... then ride'em all the way to the bank....J/K sort of.

tired of typing
great post idea Mike
nice post Gary

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  #11 (permalink)
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I think I am a lucky few where my wife actually a non-negative support. What i mean by that is she does not supports it, but will not put pressure on me if I do trade. My two kids are too young to understand it. They are two and one, but will get them involve when they are around five or six years old.

However, my friends do not look at it this way. I was actually talking about this business to a close friend yesterday, a tax professional, about it. Even after I explain to her that trading is a business just like other, losing is a business expense. But throughout our conversation, she has referred trading as gambling and comment if gambling can make you rich, then everyone will be a billionaire.

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  #12 (permalink)
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Mike,

Great post. This will also help me understand how trading is going to fit into my life. My wife is pregnant with our 3rd child. She doesn't really care much for my trading business as long as she thinks its going to make $$. I've tried to explain to her that I need my space and my time in order for it to succeed and that it will take time.

I think its absolutely critical to be up front and honest. I've blown an account or two in the past and simply told my wife. I'm relatively young so blowing through my savings wasn't too dramatic 5 years ago. However if I'm not careful and blow my current savings at 30, well it might be a bit scarier.

Anyways, what I'm trying to do are a few of these things concurrently:

1. Learn as MUCH as possible in terms of money mgmt, psychology...
2. Learn as MUCH as possible in terms of indicators and how markets move
3. Setup trading environment (NT7, servers, databases, development env, etc)
4. Building funds. Learn, THEN trade SIM, THEN put cash in.

I've convinced my wife (for now) that I need a separate space and will need some resources and will need to spend alone-time learning. The next thing is to convince her that putting money into the market (if strategies prove worthy) will be worthwhile and profitable.


Again, thanks BM for the post. Any more that will help me understand how to get my trading business underway will be appreciated!

thanks!

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  #13 (permalink)
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Great topic Mike . Im married and my wife and I have 3 kids up to 16 in the house and I started the 1st steps in trading when my wife and I got married . Were both divorced previously and have kids with us now from our 1st marriages and I feel we both are a little more tolerant with each other as far as careers go because we know what negative criticism leads to - heartaches . I support her endevours and she supports mine and if we dont agree 100% with what the other is doing we talk it out and build up not down . The kids are not as easy because - theyre kids ! But as they grow more they are more interested in money and what is involved in making and more importantly keeping and growing money . They can explain to you what taxes , interest , assets , liabilities and mortgages are since they were little . They dont teach that at school so its our job to do that for them .

As far as what people think about trading - I think most people dont undersatand business and money in the first place so it doesnt bother me when they express an opinion . Many of my friends punch a clock and make the employer wealthy and let the boss focus on business while they collect the paycheck on friday and couldnt care less how that money came to be . They still think trading is gambling and irresponsible but those same people buy scratchoff tickets and play the lottery religiously . They talk about how theyll spend the millions theyre going to win someday .

All that matters is that Im a responsible parent and husband and what I do is my business . My family and I work like a team and have empathy for one another and give each other the benefit of the doubt .

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  #14 (permalink)
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If you have read my price reading thread you know that this is a part time endeavor for me since I have a full (more than most of the time) job. I am very good at what I do but only became good with experience, hard work, studying, discipline, and watching/learning from others. I am lucky also that I am paid well and have a stable career. With that said, there is also a lot of stress with the delivery of projects that I manage. So I started looking for a way to start a business without needed to quit my current job. Trading seemed like a good fit since I need to manage my savings and this is something I can do for a lifetime.

My wife is very supportive in everything that I do. Although she may not always agree with me she has always supported me. We have lot of respect for each other and we are best friends. Since I started researching and studying trading we have had a lot of conversations about the length of time it would take me to develop the necessary skills, not only because this is part time but because nothing is ever done well without a lot of hard work. If it were easy then everyone could do this. And if everyone could do this then who would we take our profits from? So we both understand that I am competing with full time traders and professionals with substantial backing.

The neat thing about this journey is that my wife has seen the potential and has indicated that she wants to trade also. I will start a different thread on this because I will need some help getting her started.

I believe she will be more disciplined than me and ultimately a better trader. However, I don't mind researching and trying new things (probably a hinderance) whereas she wants a proven set of rules provided that she can learn and execute. She won't mind studying and won't mind working hard but she does not want to start from scratch. I'm not a good enough trader nor do I have a stable trading plan for myself to teach her. So I'll start another thread for advice from everyone.

As always, you are appreciated Mike.

Andrew

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  #15 (permalink)
wny
 
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Big Mike View Post
From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc.

Why do you think this happens?

I think though you also need to keep things in perspective. Most people that suceed in business are leveraging a skill they already have....
I don't know why we have such problems admitting this isn't much different than gambling honestly. Trading is certainly much closer to becoming a professional poker player than it is to opening a restaurant.
For me, the only logical thing I could see to truely give myself a shot was I had to give up on the idea of getting married until I've done what I want to do at this game. I'm in my early 30s and don't even really bother with serious relationships. To me its the trade off of wanting a profession so outside the norm. I just don't have the time to give a relationship right now, its too hard to explain and I wouldn't expect people to understand much anyway.
Once you have found what you are looking for in this game the bankroll size will speak for itself.
If you are married and have kids and haven't found much trading success, I don't know..Maybe you are just in the wrong business. I can't imagine having to deal with a spouse during a drawdown, let alone kids.
The difference between a total degen gambler and single minded obessesion developing your craft in trading is really only the difference between how much money is being made/lost....I'm sure there is not a spouse on the planet that complains about a successful speculators ways of making coin.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Thanks BM and all, Great Post

The importance of family support and understanding plays an important role in our successful as individuals in any field of industry. However it is the very nature of trading as a business that makes it difficult for non traders to relate, especially our immediate family.

The truth of approaching trading as a business is a realization that dawned on me, later on during this journey. It was this and a change in my world view, which changed my relationship with my wife dramatically. The level of support and interest increased much, much more.

Traders are like the early pioneers, undertaking a journey into the unknown for a better life for our families. After all isn’t that why got into this, a better life!

Like any business, establishing the boundaries between family and work are very important. Furthermore identifying the nature and structure of the business is critical to a reaching this happy balance between personal and professional life.

There are few things that we forget as traders. When most people startup a business, the husband/wife/family can physically see the business. They can come down and visit you at the shop or go out with you on the road. With most businesses or jobs when we clock out, we closes shop and return home to your family. Also depending on what your job involves, sometimes it’s not appropriate to discuss every little detail with your family.

As traders, the venture capital is ones and zeros on the screen. Our office is our home and our tools of the trade are our monitories and PCs. We spend hours, days, weeks, years learning the trade not generating an income. We are on an emotional rollercoaster until we reach the level of psychology need to be in this business. If the business goes belly-up, there are nothing lift to sell.

When we begin to see the world through our partner’s eyes, it tells a different story. The fact they have not packed and left when you have blown the bank on tuition fees, is in itself an immeasurable amount of support and love.

Let me ask you, would you stick around with your business partner if they blew the venture capital you work so hard to build. How would you feel if you stood 8 hrs a day in the joint partnership retail store, trying to make money for the business, while your partner stayed at home staring at the PC drawing a wage and telling you - I’ll makes us money in the future!

What I’m saying is - when we exchange our self with ours, and we look at our self through their eyes our world view changes. We become the ones giving the support; we become the bouncing board of which their concerns are heard. And this in turn gives us all the happiness that there is, whether our trades succeed or fail.

Alex

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  #17 (permalink)
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soumi71 View Post
When I first started in this business , it was my husband 's idea , he suggested I learn trading ( being a fast learner myself ) and then I will teach him later , I started with a 10K account , it was some savings that my husband put aside for a down payment , he was busy with his day job and I got busy trading , I started live trading only a week after being on this , the guy who taught me claimed that it was best to do it live then to do it on paper , I got lucky and made 2K the first week , no strategy just shorting the resistance and buying the support , no stop loss , no money management and the worst of all , averaging down on a loosing position , I blew up the account and stopped for a few months , I had to do some research trying to understand what was the best way to recover the money , in the meantime , my husband was getting impatient because the money did not come as fast as he thought , I felt guilty after what happened that I find it really hard pulling the trigger and getting back on the business , all the support that I had when I first started disappeared , I suffered alot psychologically because I felt like I gambled with the family's savings , I re-opened a small account again last september but my emotions where taking the lead , my husband lost all interest in this busy with his job and career , I am still struggling to find a way to show him that I can do it , my ego is hurt but I find my strength everyday in myself because I really believe that I can make it one day , I am sure that some of you can relate to my story , being a woman in this business is even harder because I have the responsibility of my kids , my house etc ...
I am working on it and I strongly believe that I will find a way ..


Soumi,


It seems to me as if you're on the wrong path, if you're going to construct your trading path based on an outcome where you'll get confirmation from your husband. Things are just going to get worse. Imagine you're going to fail once again. Or what is going to happen if you succeed, and then fail after that again.

You see, a successful trading carrier is build upon these premises. Being successful doesn't mean that you're going to be making 2k out of 10k, and after that compound it. No, it means that out of the 10k you're maybe going to be making 2k and lose 1k, and out of the 11k you make another 3k and you lose 1k.

Being successful means to be consistent and faithful to your system, and to what works for you. It means that you have to lose less then you win. Unfortunately, we're never gone get rid of the roller coaster. But we can learn how to control it, so that when we summon up our fights and struggles, the outcome is more positive then negative.

I think we're all better of if we follow Ronan's example or Gary's. Talk to your husband and tell him, what you've been through, and what you're up to. How and why things happened the way it happened, and that you've decided to proceed and how things are going to look like in the near future.

Ask him to support you, because that is what you really, really want to do, and that this is your highest wish. Not because you want to show him that you can make it out there, but because this is what your heart is telling you do be the right thing for you.

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #18 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Important to have support and coverage, as tensions do reinforce irrational behavior. Best thing is not to trade, if things are not in line. Family support is as important a factor for me as physical fitness and mental preparation!

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  #19 (permalink)
Toronto
 
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Thanks George for your advice , my main concern is that I want to get rid of that psychological barrier , it's really important for my psyche to be able to do that even if it takes months and weeks and days , I know that Rome was not built in one day ... That will be a big step towards a more relaxed state of mind ,
I will be involving him soon , as he was really interested in doing it but got caught in the daily job cycle , which is important in these kinds of situations where one of us has to bring a paycheck to sustain the family .
hopefully things will get better once he starts sim trading , I will be the master then lol
Thanks for all the support , I really appreciate it .


"Risk more than others think safe.
Dream more than others think practical.
Expect more than others think possible.
Care more than others think wise"
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  #20 (permalink)
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I do not day trade for a living, but I do have a business for end of day trading in equities and options. However, I am becomming more interested in day trading but I have yet to take the plunge and leave my day job. I should say that my job, like a lot of others in this economy, is not very secure so you could say that I am hedging my employment

My wife supports my trading 100% so long as it doesn't turn into a gambling habit and I am bringing home the money. What is having an impact on our relationship (and that of my 2 kids) is my day job. Because of current economic conditions, my company knows it can take advantage of their employees (more work hours and less benefits). It is not unusual for me to work 90 hour weeks including weekends. A recent announcement regarding a change in company policy axed 5 vacation days in the name of "being competitive with current economic conditions". I could go on with other issues, but I don't want to turn this into a rant. At the end of the day, I have very little time for my family and my wife is aware of that.

My wife and I have discussed several times the possibilities of leaving my job to do trading full time. We discussed issues and milestones for making progress to ensure a smooth transition when the time comes. I know she feels more secure in this venture so long as we keep an open dialog going.


Regards,
-C

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu
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  #21 (permalink)
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It seems everyone who has posted so far has support from their family.

What about the members who explicitly lack support from their spouse and family? What about the members who's spouse wishes they would stop trading altogether and "get a real job", but the trader keeps pushing forward because "he knows the huge upside potential of trading", and he looks back on how much time (and money) he has invested in it and doesn't want to just walk away from that.

It is these traders who need advice on how to handle the situation. Their current situation is bad for everyone. The spouse is upset, and the trader is left without support that is needed to overcome the psychological aspects of trading.

Mike

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  #22 (permalink)
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Thanks Mike , I relate to these traders , and I tell them to follow their passion with great discipline , only time will show that they were right one day , do not be quitters , keep going towards your goals , practice a hobby to ease stress and frustrations , join a forum ( Big Mike's ) talk to traders , share ideas and advices , you will make it if you believe in yourself most of all ,
"Obstacles do not have to stop you , if you run into a wall , don't turn around and give up , figure out how to climb it , go through it or work around it "
Michael Jordan

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  #23 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
It seems everyone who has posted so far has support from their family.

What about the members who explicitly lack support from their spouse and family? What about the members who's spouse wishes they would stop trading altogether and "get a real job", but the trader keeps pushing forward because "he knows the huge upside potential of trading", and he looks back on how much time (and money) he has invested in it and doesn't want to just walk away from that.

It is these traders who need advice on how to handle the situation. Their current situation is bad for everyone. The spouse is upset, and the trader is left without support that is needed to overcome the psychological aspects of trading.

Mike

My advice to them would be to analyze your home/family obligations carefully BEFORE considering a career in trading . I understand its probably too late to tell them that if they already feel heat from those around them but better late than never . Its critical to any relationship to have mutual understandings about things like careers . Ive seen a lot of friends and family members of mine blindsided by career disputes with their spouse and it turns out most of them didnt have a clue about their partners ultimate career ( or lack of career ) goals . If I didnt have peolple around me that believe in me and understand my core values and my goals I would be trading toast by now - would have quit trying long ago .

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  #24 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
It seems everyone who has posted so far has support from their family.

What about the members who explicitly lack support from their spouse and family? What about the members who's spouse wishes they would stop trading altogether and "get a real job", but the trader keeps pushing forward because "he knows the huge upside potential of trading", and he looks back on how much time (and money) he has invested in it and doesn't want to just walk away from that.

It is these traders who need advice on how to handle the situation. Their current situation is bad for everyone. The spouse is upset, and the trader is left without support that is needed to overcome the psychological aspects of trading.

Mike

I think a lot of what you mention above has to do with the lack of understanding of the job (trading) and also that unless you are at a firm how do you know what to do? The transition will normally be from hobby / part time and so on, therefore it doesn't exactly come across as a profession as such to those who don't know about it. Also the main thing to any family / parent is security and stability for their kids so that adds a whole new level of potential conflict.

Having said that retraining for any job in the current climate is not sure to succeed.

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  #25 (permalink)
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I will admit to not having total support from my family. My current wife soon to be ex encouraged me to start trading and was very supportive so were my children.I have blown up two small accounts .
My wife then just lost confidence in trading and in me. My children are still supportive though.
The thing is that I closed my business which I had run for 20years and got myself in a position where I didn't have to work for two years (but she did) and we had a plan but after 12 months she has just decided that she is opting out .
So consequently I feel a little betrayed .
Even though my wife supported the idea of me trading she was not prepared for the amount of work required so she still asked for a lot of my time which affected my psychology . I have always remained positive as I know how difficult it is to remain successful in business and the work required and I believe that trading requires a similar amount of effort.
The thing is my second wife and I were having relationship problems not helped by a blended family and I suffered a lot of criticism over the years I think the trading just brought things to end which seems a relief in a lot of ways.
At least in the new year I will be living in a loving fully supportive home with two of my children without a partner and will be able to focus on trading without feeling guilty or compromised.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting @waza1960. Sorry to hear of your marital problems.

Just thinking out loud...

I think that in marriage, no single person can bear the full responsibility of the relationship working. It is a joint endeavor.

However, with trading, I feel that you have to take complete ownership and responsibility for your trades. Unless your wife was trading the same account, I think you have to separate the two issues here --- one is your trading performance, and two is the support from your family.

Without doubt, someone with a lot of support from their family is likely to do better. But, I don't think that lack of support from your family is a reason to perform poorly with trading.

Now that you are head of household (presumably) with your children living with you, you have to re-evaluate the priorities. I do not have children, and am not married, so I can pretty much do what I want -- but even I still have family obligations like caring for my mom, and those responsibilities come first before all else. In your case, I would imagine your kids come first before all else, so that may mean that one day you have to give up on your own dreams and ambitions because your kids take priority over them.

I hope it won't come to that, and I wish you success in being able to live your own dream while simultaneously taking care of your children. Hope you find happiness, that is what it is all about!

Mike

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  #27 (permalink)
the congo
 
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I know from personal experiance it is all too easy to neglect loved ones due to the constant persuit of your goals and aspirations. This can be extreemly detremental to a relationship. Its not just time spent with them but how you are with them, the way you react, where they feature in your priorities...so many things.

I think the most important thing to remember is that the markets will always be there, your loved ones may not. Also physical and mental excersise is imperative to success, you need to be healthy and happy to succeed.

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  #28 (permalink)
NSW Australia
 
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Quoting 
However, with trading, I feel that you have to take complete ownership and responsibility for your trades. Unless your wife was trading the same account, I think you have to separate the two issues here --- one is your trading performance, and two is the support from your family.

I am not blaming anyone for my lack of trading success to date . Its just that my wife was always criticising my business and really pushing me to go into trading and then she's not prepared to let me stick to the plan that we agreed on.
I always put my family and children before all else I also look after my mother as well as my immediate family.I have tried to make the marriage work and put myself last to the extent that I am now on anti-depressants.
I am looking forward to just learning to trade/trading and looking after my children without constant criticism.
The trading is not the issue that has caused the marriage to break up its the fact that my wife can't handle living with my children and that I have aspergers which is hard to live with apparently the only positive for me is that once I have had enough I can cut emotional attachments fairly easily an advantage of aspergers I guess.
Thats one of the reasons that trading appeals to me it goes well with my aspergers traits like computers/maths/no need for much socializing etc.
My children don't want for anything and if I become short of money I will work if the trading doesn't provide an income. Hope this post is not too long or personal.
As far as the psychology goes having initial verbal support is one thing but if the other person doesn't understand trading then that support is very limited in that they often have unrealisic expectations no matter how hard you try and explain it to them.
Also the other thing is that if the other person has not had a business or achieved a successful career then they are naive about how much effort is required to become an expert or master in their field.I am lucky that I have achieved a high level in two previous careers and now hope to achieve this in trading.

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  #29 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business.


What do you guys think?

Mike

The preceding posts are compelling, and while the theme remains the same throughout, the individual stories are different and unique.The family-work dynamic is a very complex subject; it involves gender roles, career paths, time management, and even egos. In addition, cultural biases and the way we were raised by our original families, play an important role in how our current families respond and react to our vocational travails.

However,
I believe this issue transcends trading and the family-work dynamic, and goes to the very core of relationships. Support is one of the key components of a successful relationship. Especially when times are difficult or life changing, it is important that families work together and support each other while working toward a common goal. This doesn’t mean that your interests have to be perfectly aligned. But you should respect what your partner is trying to achieve, and allow them the freedom to pursue these interests while being supportive.

I have always believed that my family’s support is somehow implied, and have therefore, always taken it for granted. This expectation was natural because I had been raised in a very traditional 1950’s family structure, where the primary gender responsibilities were defined. The husbands were the “breadwinners”, and the wives were the “ homemakers” and caretakers of the children. “Father Knew Best”, and to say that the husband's role and career was somewhat more “prioritized” than the wife’s, is kind of like saying there was a “ little” racial discrimination during that era.

I have also taken my family’s support for granted, because it has always been there. My wife is extremely supportive and always encourages me to enjoy and excel at whatever endeavor I choose to undertake. Part of the reason for this unconditional support may be related to this 50’s ideal, but the predominant reason is our mutual respect for each other, and each others right to pursue our individual passions, while maintaining a common goal and purpose.

It is also important to keep one’s interests in the proper perspective. Trading provides me with an independent way to support my family, and also provides me with enjoyment and purpose. Yet, my family is my highest priority and is of the greatest value to me. I recognize that it may be necessary to compromise some of my goals and aspirations, in order to protect this higher priority, and fortunately my family has always appreciated my balancing act, and reciprocated with their understanding and unconditional support.

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  #30 (permalink)
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I have made a conscious decision not to educate my wife about trading. She has brought the beauty of art, travel and design in my life, which has become my second nature. It's exactly the opposite of trading.
This is the part where you do get excited, get emotional and get attached.
Introducing her to trading where you need to be stone cold calculated and disciplined would be like taking away from what I see as beautiful about her.

Now, if I was blowing up accounts left right and center, I would probably see some flying plates in the house which is a form of abstract art in motion.

All jokes aside, we cant blames spouses for lack of support if the bank account is going south.
Getting unconditional support is when one sees there is progress and advancement in one's career choices.
The key is honesty and telling your spouse the possible outcome ahead of starting not half way through.
I was honest, I said there are no guarantees and laid out all the possible out comes in my trading and career choices.

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  #31 (permalink)
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Nobody supports me in my quest to trade for a living, only this forum understands what I'm trying to accomplish...I liken it to a small puny company that no knows about and when they do, they don't give it any thought...kinda like companies like Intel, Google, etc. But when they get BIG, oh...those folks that didn't buy shares are just dieing to get a piece of it...ha!

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  #32 (permalink)
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My wife supports me at the moment. I've been involved in the markets since my days in the Marines, as I came to quickly understand, that had ZERO bearing on futures. However, it has provided me with the proper mindset, more of a propensity to follow my rules and in addition to my service has helped me to be, well, cold and calculating. My wife is a social butterfly and very outgoing and willing to talk to anyone and everyone. I'm not. I've asked her if she wants to and she said she doesn't understand math very well and can't read charts. That's fine. As Matt said previously, thinking about it...I'm not sure I'd want her to trade with me.

We have our first child on the way with her being 8 weeks preggers and my main goal is for her to be safe and comfortable, economically, mentally, and emotionally.

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  #33 (permalink)
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johnnycakes78704 View Post
My wife supports me at the moment. I've been involved in the markets since my days in the Marines, as I came to quickly understand, that had ZERO bearing on futures. However, it has provided me with the proper mindset, more of a propensity to follow my rules and in addition to my service has helped me to be, well, cold and calculating. My wife is a social butterfly and very outgoing and willing to talk to anyone and everyone. I'm not. I've asked her if she wants to and she said she doesn't understand math very well and can't read charts. That's fine. As Matt said previously, thinking about it...I'm not sure I'd want her to trade with me.

We have our first child on the way with her being 8 weeks preggers and my main goal is for her to be safe and comfortable, economically, mentally, and emotionally.

My wife would also say that she doesn't understand math very well. Teach her to read the charts. You can do it. Check it out in the elite section:



Andrew

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  #34 (permalink)
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AR01, it isn't a matter on whether or not she can do it, but rather she doesn't want to. We, as traders, do have a emotions and while we do our best to be robotic, we are two things at the end of the day, every day (generally speaking). One is less emotional than a woman and Two, not pregnant. I don't want her to have the stress hormones coursing through her veins. I want her to feel loved, comfortable, and safe as that would provide the best environment for our as yet unborn child. As such, I don't want her to trade yet either. She has her pursuits which make her happy and I am happy to let her enjoy those pursuits.

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  #35 (permalink)
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johnnycakes78704 View Post
AR01, it isn't a matter on whether or not she can do it, but rather she doesn't want to. We, as traders, do have a emotions and while we do our best to be robotic, we are two things at the end of the day, every day (generally speaking). One is less emotional than a woman and Two, not pregnant. I don't want her to have the stress hormones coursing through her veins. I want her to feel loved, comfortable, and safe as that would provide the best environment for our as yet unborn child. As such, I don't want her to trade yet either. She has her pursuits which make her happy and I am happy to let her enjoy those pursuits.

Got it. If she doesn't want to do it then she doesn't want to do it.

Andrew

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  #36 (permalink)
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I brought this up in another thread and Mike pointed me here so I'll make a post.

I live with my girlfriend who detests trading in all its forms. She has a few basic tenets for this:
First, trading is not a job because it is not work. I sit in front of a computer screen all day and listen to a news service I pay for, on a computer I pay for, with software I pay for and no guarantee I will make money.
Second, again, trading is not work. I sit in front of a computer all day, alone, at home. I don't put a suit on, I don't have a business card, and much worse than that, I don't sweat and I don't lift heavy things (i.e. real work).
Third, and most egregious of all, if I'm trading I can't do anything worthwhile. I can't do the laundry or pick up her dry cleaning or go grocery shopping so I'm just sitting in front of a computer and accomplishing not even the most basic task.

Yeah, I've tried to explain how this works and I have clients from another business who are traders and millionaires many many times over so she sees it can be done but anytime I try to explain the process of becoming successful at this I get the old "I don't care, whatever".

So I guess this puts me in the minority of traders on this site but that's ok. She isn't responsible for a single loss I've taken and definitely not a gain. I and I alone put my trades on and take my trades off. I decide my risk and I won't for one second tell you anything different. Does it make my job harder? Hell yes it does. No one ever said it would be easy. Besides, this is a woman we are talking about, the minute I turn profitable and start making money she will leave a burn mark on the ground she'll do a 180 so fast (then I'll have to hear about how it was her support that allowed me to be successful and without her yadda yadda)... just better hope I can keep it going.

It's all good, keep your eye on the prize, work harder than the guy to your left and right, above all stay focused. There are I-banks and institutions out there just dying to give you their money... so go take it.

Good luck.

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  #37 (permalink)
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jtradr View Post
I brought this up in another thread and Mike pointed me here so I'll make a post.

I live with my girlfriend who detests trading in all its forms. She has a few basic tenets for this:
First, trading is not a job because it is not work. I sit in front of a computer screen all day and listen to a news service I pay for, on a computer I pay for, with software I pay for and no guarantee I will make money.
Second, again, trading is not work. I sit in front of a computer all day, alone, at home. I don't put a suit on, I don't have a business card, and much worse than that, I don't sweat and I don't lift heavy things (i.e. real work).
Third, and most egregious of all, if I'm trading I can't do anything worthwhile. I can't do the laundry or pick up her dry cleaning or go grocery shopping so I'm just sitting in front of a computer and accomplishing not even the most basic task.

Yeah, I've tried to explain how this works and I have clients from another business who are traders and millionaires many many times over so she sees it can be done but anytime I try to explain the process of becoming successful at this I get the old "I don't care, whatever".

So I guess this puts me in the minority of traders on this site but that's ok. She isn't responsible for a single loss I've taken and definitely not a gain. I and I alone put my trades on and take my trades off. I decide my risk and I won't for one second tell you anything different. Does it make my job harder? Hell yes it does. No one ever said it would be easy. Besides, this is a woman we are talking about, the minute I turn profitable and start making money she will leave a burn mark on the ground she'll do a 180 so fast (then I'll have to hear about how it was her support that allowed me to be successful and without her yadda yadda)... just better hope I can keep it going.

It's all good, keep your eye on the prize, work harder than the guy to your left and right, above all stay focused. There are I-banks and institutions out there just dying to give you their money... so go take it.

Good luck.

Trading is one of the most demanding professions out there. The demand is on mental capacity/strain, not physical.

Here are my thoughts on your post:

- If you and your girlfriend are living well, no money issues, and you aren't trading the rent money --- then I would find a new girlfriend, one that actually supports and encourages you with your dreams and aspirations.

- If on the other hand money is tight, and you are to some extent trading rent money, then your girlfriend is right - you should stop trading immediately, go get a "guaranteed income" job, and start putting some money away so that in a year or two you can fund your live trading account without it effecting rent money etc. Over the next year or two you can continue to spend 2-3 hours a day and some weekends learning all you can about trading, including sim trading as much as you can (from market replay, most likely).

Mike

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  #38 (permalink)
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Make sure your sister, who lives in a different state, doesn't have a stroke right when you are about fire up a new trading plan for the year. She's improved a lot since then by the way.

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  #39 (permalink)
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This is a great thread - thanks to all who've contributed.

I'm wondering though, how do you guys get support if you have no wife/girlfriend or kids? Or no friends who understand trading? Any tips?

I understand this is somewhat 'part of the deal', but honestly, I annoys me that there's so little (if any) support and interest. I don't expect any cheer leading, but it wouldn't hurt to sometimes ask how it's going - just like you do with other entrepreneurs or people with a 9-to-5 job.

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  #40 (permalink)
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I would suggest not starting out with aim to make a living. Start out to make extra income. If at some point you are making so much extra income that you can step out of your job and focus on trading then do it. Plus the added pressure of having to depend on trading to pay the bills can be crushing and cause you to make many mistakes.

The reality is most will fail in trading. If you have others who are depending on you to bring home a paycheck they will suffer if it does not work and odds say it won't work. It is not worth the stress it can cause in relationships. Most likely if you fail in trading you have eaten up your savings and are possibly in debt. It can be a double kill on your finances that can set you back years financially and ruin your relationships.

I really think the ultimate is if you can get some other type of business going that allows you to keep an eye on markets. Then instead of taking money out of your trading account every month you just let it build and scale.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #41 (permalink)
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Jura View Post
I'm wondering though, how do you guys get support if you have no wife/girlfriend or kids? Or no friends who understand trading? Any tips?

You can find plenty of like-minded traders here on futures.io (formerly BMT). When you read posts by a certain user that you agree with or feel compelling, then just send a Friend request to that user, exchange Skype info, etc, and you've now got an extra buddy who understands trading.

Mike

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  #42 (permalink)
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Thanks Big Mike for another great thread. I'm glad that so many traders have a good family support structure when it comes to their trading.

I have a very guarded approach when it comes to the family and their support of the trading business. For me, I'd rather NOT get into specifics when talking to my wife about trading.
Background: I'm fairly new to trading. I've lost money in stocks and options, but currency futures have shown promise since I implemented a trading plan last January. I have a day job that pays the bills, but I want to develop a backup plan-- I'm highly motivated to learn trading to serve as this backup plan. I consider myself an optimist, but some more "realistic" people may call me a dreamer.
What I'm about to say is only my current opinion, with slight hyperbole, based on my level of experience, my situation, and my location along a flight path that might be long and arduous with several to-be-determined course corrections down the line.


Try not to let your wife/family know about your trading business.

Trading equates to gambling, according to a high percentage of the population. Gambling evokes visions of ruin, of having to short-sell the house, sell the furniture, and live in a car because the mortgage payments can't be made.

When starting your trading career, only you and your most trusted associates can be aware of your actions. Consider trading to be Top Secret - Sensitive Compartmented Information. Don't be cavalier about talking about it, for information leaks can lead to grave damage to your mission of attaining a trading education. Learning how to trade is difficult enough, and people's negativity will severely impact the acquisition of your skills and erode your confidence.

I've let my wife know about my journey as a trader. She is my wife, and I believe in having a high level of trust in a marriage. I consider my wife having a Top Secret clearance, but the details about trading are on a need-to-know. She understands the sensitivity of the topic, and my reasons for keeping it under wraps. My kids are too young to learn about trading, and only one child so far exhibits the personality traits for the business. But the extended family will not be told until this information becomes declassified, which is years away at best.

People's negativity is a killer. As my trading success is unproven, I cannot afford to have people tell me that "it's not possible to make money trading", or "the system is rigged", or "only Goldman Sachs can do it." I'm fine with people saying that only a small percentage of would-be traders succeed or that the path is difficult and requires a vast amount of self-study. But I've seen some of my extended family kill people's dreams or even their own dreams because of their negativity.

I consider futures.io (formerly BMT) forum a place where others have the security clearances to know about my trading actions. The support I've seen is amazing-- tales of failure have been met with encouragement from others, and overconfidence has been reigned in by constructive comments.

Thanks to all you members for being my support system.

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  #43 (permalink)
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The easiest way to get approval from others is simple:

LET GO OF WANTING TO SEEK APPROVAL FROM OTHERS!!!!

You already have their approval and support. You don't have to make it a bigger deal than it is.

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  #44 (permalink)
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@dc618, why not share all the intimate details with your wife? Withholding details is akin to withholding truth, aka lying.... it won't do you any favors in the stress/psychological department. If you are concerned she will not be understanding, it is probably because you are losing more money than she thinks is acceptable... and maybe she has a point...

I can't really give marital advice, as I am divorced. But I can talk about a hypothetical marriage, and that is one where you openly share, and you use her as a "rock" to anchor you, lean on, support you, etc. She does the same. Even if you disagree with her (for example, if she feels you are risking too much) then you should find compromise, as she may have a point you are missing yourself.

I find that most of the stress in the relationship over trading comes from two points. 1) Money, 2) Time. The money one is pretty easy to reduce actually, just by moving out of costly futures trading and into less costly forex trading with a mini or micro lot account at a reputable broker like MB Trading. The time issue is more troublesome, as it takes years to master trading - so you might try involving your wife in your trading by getting her interested enough to take her own trades, so it feels like you are doing something together instead of apart.

Mike

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  #45 (permalink)
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
@dc618, why not share all the intimate details with your wife? Withholding details is akin to withholding truth, aka lying....

I have to disagree on that... one can be truthful and not have to disclose every single detail of what one is doing. That is like saying that if my wife asks me what I am doing when I get up at 4AM and I say I trade, but dont bother to include the details of what I trade or if I made $$$ or lost that day or if anything else.. by your definition, I would be lying to her since I am not sharing the details.

I just have to disagree with withholding details is akin to lying...

a lie is a lie... and truth is truth... details on truth dont make the truth any different or change it in any way.


Big Mike View Post
I can't really give marital advice, as I am divorced. But I can talk about a hypothetical marriage, and that is one where you openly share, and you use her as a "rock" to anchor you, lean on, support you, etc. She does the same. Even if you disagree with her (for example, if she feels you are risking too much) then you should find compromise, as she may have a point you are missing yourself.

let me know when you find that marriage... reality, unfortunately is much different..


Big Mike View Post
I find that most of the stress in the relationship over trading comes from two points. 1) Money, 2) Time.

I will expand your argument and say the stress in any relationship has to do with those two things you mention.

the way I do it is simple... I dont recommend it for everyone.. I have been married for 10 years, it works for me..

my wife knows I work and what I do for a living, and that I trade as a hobby to fund our retirement and nothing else. She has no idea how much money I make on either ventures. She gets an allowance for her, outside of the houes and kids, even though she works on the side doing her own thing. I cover all family costs. I dont trade with money that I cant afford to lose, so what I do with those funds is my business as long as I dont put the family at risk, and that would never be the case. My family present and futures are well protected, and she knows how to access that protection in the event that something happens to me.

the only thing that stresses my wife is time... not much I can do about that variable but to try and maximize the quality of time spent with the family.

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  #46 (permalink)
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sysot1t View Post
I have to disagree on that... one can be truthful and not have to disclose every single detail of what one is doing. That is like saying that if my wife asks me what I am doing when I get up at 4AM and I say I trade, but dont bother to include the details of what I trade or if I made $$$ or lost that day or if anything else.. by your definition, I would be lying to her since I am not sharing the details.

If your wife asks how your trading went, and you conveniently leave out the fact that you lost 10% of your trading account today and simply answer with "it was fine" - you have left out the details, but in my opinion, you've also lied.

It's my view that you need your wife to fully support you, and not have to withhold info from her to gain that support or steer that support in your favor, as doing so only adds stress.

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
If your wife asks how your trading went, and you conveniently leave out the fact that you lost 10% of your trading account today and simply answer with "it was fine" - you have left out the details, but in my opinion, you've also lied.

I will agree that saying "it was fine", when in fact it wasnt, is lying. However, that was not your original post..


Big Mike View Post
Withholding details is akin to withholding truth, aka lying....

lets say that day I lost 10% because I revenge traded... if my wife asks me how it was today, I would say "it sucked"... no details provided as they are not needed... as per your definition, I would be lying... so I still disagree with that original post.


Big Mike View Post
It's my view that you need your wife to fully support you, and not have to withhold info from her to gain that support or steer that support in your favor, as doing so only adds stress.

Mike

I guess that I am pscyhologically made up differently from most given that I dont need my wife's support to trade... after all, this is a hobby.. is not like i am risking the cost of living money.

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  #48 (permalink)
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sysot1t View Post
I guess that I am pscyhologically made up differently from most given that I dont need my wife's support to trade...

From my experience with helping other traders, support is very critical from a spouse. If you lack your spouse's support, then it really places you in a difficult position to be a successful trader.


Quoting 
after all, this is a hobby.. is not like i am risking the cost of living money.

I didn't realize you weren't a full time trader.

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  #49 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
I would suggest not starting out with aim to make a living. Start out to make extra income. If at some point you are making so much extra income that you can step out of your job and focus on trading then do it. Plus the added pressure of having to depend on trading to pay the bills can be crushing and cause you to make many mistakes.

The reality is most will fail in trading. If you have others who are depending on you to bring home a paycheck they will suffer if it does not work and odds say it won't work. It is not worth the stress it can cause in relationships. Most likely if you fail in trading you have eaten up your savings and are possibly in debt. It can be a double kill on your finances that can set you back years financially and ruin your relationships.

I really think the ultimate is if you can get some other type of business going that allows you to keep an eye on markets. Then instead of taking money out of your trading account every month you just let it build and scale.


I think this is great advice. I am not sure if I would ever want to have trading only as my sole source of income. The markets changes and I am not sure if I would be able to make a living from trading for the next 10 years and beyond even if I am doing well now.

In trading everyday you starts from zero, yesterday's success means nothing today. You start all over again day after day, year after year.

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Big Mike View Post
From my experience with helping other traders, support is very critical from a spouse. If you lack your spouse's support, then it really places you in a difficult position to be a successful trader.


I guess we are all different; my wife would crack under the pressure if she ever saw how much I am willing to lose in a single day; she is too emotional while I am more logical, I can justify the VaR while she would just think how that is the monthly mortgage on her parents condo. Less stress for me not to share details, less stress for her not to know details.



Big Mike View Post
I didn't realize you weren't a full time trader.

Mike


and no, I dont trade full time, and by full time I mean for a living ... I dont think I would ever trade for a living... I need a job to actually keep me intellectually challenged.

Trading for me, is only a 2-3 hour a day affair of actual trading, and about 2 hours of research and prep; sometimes less, comes down to what markets interest me that day or if I am looking to do some options for income.

Trading to me is really no different than gambling in a casino; if I sit there all day long, I will give back the winnings because I will over trade out of boredom. Trading is really, really, really boring; but that doesnt mean one should trade for excitement, it should be boring IMO.

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  #51 (permalink)
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There's been a lot of great points on both sides of the coin regarding letting the spouse know about your trading. I do keep my wife in the loop about the account level-- she actually wants to know more about losses than wins. But when it comes to the details, she doesn't want to know too much. It's mostly a lack of interest about the risk management strategy, Fibonacci exits, reward-risk minimums, and win-loss ratios. Plus, I haven't been able to explain some things to her very well-- such as how a 52% win-loss ratio is actually pretty good if the reward-risk is consistently near 3-to-1. Not that I'm consistent yet with achieving a 3-to-1 on the average trade, but it's something I want to attain in my trading.

For those of you who do have involvement and interest about trading from your spouse, how did you get him/her involved? And how did you increase/maintain their interest level?

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I decide to handle this aspect in my own way.

I would never tell another man how to handle his relationship with his wife. All women are different and the way your own relationship works best may not be best for someone else.

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dc618 View Post
For those of you who do have involvement and interest about trading from your spouse, how did you get him/her involved? And how did you increase/maintain their interest level?

My wife has been involved w/ the business ever since I started almost 3 years ago. I don't need anyones permission to do anything, but out of a TON of respect for my wife she is always in the loop. My issue was never winning or losing, but rather all the money (over 30K) we have sunk into this business. She knows about every penny and knew about every decision to buy into the garbage no matter how stupid it was (dream merchants, super secret magic indicators, and trading rooms). I figured I would always let her know what was going on because "I" feel that if you can't be honest with your spouse, it's not worth being with that person. If she had disagreed with my decision to trade full time I would have kept my crappy City job I hated no matter what. The last one I was married to was never honest with me and I was seldom honest with her, needless to say it was doomed from the get-go.

My wife stays interested not because of the money aspects but because of the psychological aspects. It's funny because she is a trading illiterate and has no idea of how to trade, but when I was having issues pulling the trigger she was the one that said "you will never know the true outcome of your trade unless you try", and that "failure only really comes when you don't try". I try not to keep thing from my spouse, it just doesn't seem right to me. I am very, very fortunate that my wife supports what I do and is there for me no matter what. If I blow it all up my wife will still love me and be there for me no matter what; it definitely makes it easier for me to trade. I will actually tell my trading woes to my wife rather than other traders as she knows how jacked up my noggin is more than others; she has the misfortune tom live with me and this easy-breezie, get rich quick business

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  #54 (permalink)
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sysot1t View Post

and no, I dont trade full time, and by full time I mean for a living ... I dont think I would ever trade for a living... I need a job to actually keep me intellectually challenged.

Trading for me, is only a 2-3 hour a day affair of actual trading, and about 2 hours of research and prep; sometimes less, comes down to what markets interest me that day or if I am looking to do some options for income.

Trading to me is really no different than gambling in a casino; if I sit there all day long, I will give back the winnings because I will over trade out of boredom. Trading is really, really, really boring; but that doesnt mean one should trade for excitement, it should be boring IMO.


I am curious if you would be willing to share, are you consistently profitable in your trading? While I trade only part time, I never see it as a hobby, its stressful.

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If you're a trader prior to meeting someone that later becomes your spouse...its much easier to have support or approval of you as a trader. In contrast, if you're already married and you change careers to become a trader...its more difficult to get support in comparison to the other situation I mentioned. This is normal in any situation where a career change has occurred.

As to the OP (thread starter) thoughts about getting the family involved with actual task that you would normally do when preparing to trade...I do not agree with such unless you're approaching your trading as if its a family business instead of as your business. Regardless, any support you have will eventually be dependent upon your profit level especially if you're the sole income provider of the family.

I myself am from a family that had two prior traders. My old man was a floor trader at the exchange and a cousin that maintain the computers for an institutional firm along with another cousin being an institutional trader. In addition, a few close personal friends are institutional traders (one of them remote at home). Therefore, the support I got from my immediate family, relatives and friends was much easier as a retail trader in comparison to other retail traders that typically switch careers or don't personally know other traders that they hang our with...something I'm very grateful about. In fact, I think retail traders (that's most of us here at BigMikes) should make a strong effort to meet other traders in person from their local areas (within 3 hours driving distance) for get togethers and bring their families along for these get togethers (e.g. dinners, family barbecues, group picnics or any other outings that families typically do). This is a very easy way to strengthen support or get it when you don't have it.

In addition, I completely agree with the OP about treating trading like a business especially if you want any longevity as a career trader. It starts with having a tax accountant, business relationship with your banker, member of local entrepreneur club, community or neighborhood involvement et cetera. These are other easy ways to get support about what you do beyond your immediate family. Ignoring these things can put you in isolation and the feeling that you are alone as a trader...eventually such will have a negative impact on your trading.

Therefore, if you want continue/long lasting support from those you personally know...use your trading to help others and it doesn't need to involve anything financial.

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jonc View Post
I am curious if you would be willing to share, are you consistently profitable in your trading? While I trade only part time, I never see it as a hobby, its stressful.

consistent, yes but not how I want it to be... profitably every month? no, every year? not always... I trade "size" only on my IRA account and I dont try to double my money like most do, my annual goals call for for 20-40% returns... sometimes I only end up 15%...

consistently to me would be every week and month closing possitive P&L, well about 90% for the year realistically... and I dont mean by P&L +$1 .00 like a guy I know who likes to claim he is profitable every month (which technically, he is)...

btw, my biggest impendiment to consistently profitable by my definition is my what I would classify as overtrading... I am working on controling it by using time as a variable and by setting daily goals... but daily goals make me question myself and create doubt... and time restrictions at times lead to missing bigger moves which create more doubts... so I have not found the right combination ...

I treat everything in my life as a business.. not just trading.. my wife hates the fact that I have a budget and she has to submit funding requests for anything she did not identified at the end of the preceeding year when I do my planning... but that is how I manage my money.

I manage my tax liability on a quarterly basis, and I prefer not to overpay in taxes; hence why majority of my trading takes place on the IRA account; and also because I use those generated funds to acquire real estate within the IRA. The real estate stuff is also a hobby to me...

anything that is not my primary function is a hobby...

I dont watch sports, or have vices (smoke, drink in excess, adrenalyne junkie, etc), or care about cars, or most things that most men care about or make hobbies out off... I do technology for a living, and it became kind of stressful to also have it as a hobby... so I switched to finance as a hobby since I've always worked in financial services.. it made sense that I understand the businesses I support and for which I design infrastructure.

I would offer you a suggestion, try treating your PT trading as a hobby... but conduct it as a business... you will see how it changes your mind and behavior... or it might not... something being a hobby just means that it is not your primary source of income. (at least it means that to me)

trading is only stressful if you have to pay bills from it (hence why I will never do it for a living unless my account has grown to where I can draw 100K on dividends without touching the principal) ... if you are trading with money that you can burn, and you have a real source (a job) of income to pay the bills... then there is no stress to any trading...

the whole burning the money thing I came to realize was critical after I read online some document from someone that I cant recall that basically said that dramatically... it was the trigger for me to stop using my whole IRA account and just switching to what I had been thinking and use only a portion...

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  #57 (permalink)
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Hello,

few months ago, i have noticed this thread.

Yesterday my girlfriend said: "Trading or me".

And I have got period (time) for decision. I am quite decided - I love both (trading and girlfriend), but question is: Will I love man, which disable me love thing? Answer is: "No."

On the other side, I am influenced, that successful traders must do sacrifices, so I am not sure, that is some "autodestructive" acting.

I dont want from you advices. I want some independent view or experience with same/similar problem...

There is something, what you should make differently?

Thank you for posts!

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  #58 (permalink)
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If you are successful and consistently profitable, take TRADING and send the girlfriend to get help to deal with her own internal issues.

If you are not making money trading, perhaps quit trading, try going to Gamblers anonymous and still check the girlfriend into a place to get help.

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  #59 (permalink)
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Baseheadz View Post
If you are successful and consistently profitable, take TRADING and send the girlfriend to get help to deal with her own internal issues.

If you are not making money trading, perhaps quit trading, try going to Gamblers anonymous and still check the girlfriend into a place to get help.

I am in learning phase... now i am finishing my system, and preparing for papertrading. I am with markets only 1,5 year and lost $ 347 (at the beginning i was rush and after this lost (this lost was after month and many mistakes) i realized, that trading is not so easy). So i think, that i am not gambler...

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  #60 (permalink)
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I don't recommend that every trader goes to Gamblers Anonymous, BUT I do recommend that almost every daytrader goes to Gambler's anonymous at least for a couple of times to hear stories about how these people have totally ruined their lives. It's quite entertaining.

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  #61 (permalink)
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Baseheadz View Post
I don't recommend that every trader goes to Gamblers Anonymous, BUT I do recommend that almost every daytrader goes to Gambler's anonymous at least for a couple of times to hear stories about how these people have totally ruined their lives. It's quite entertaining.

Interesting... good point, I look for it in my town...

Thank you.

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gerimo View Post
I am in learning phase... now i am finishing my system, and preparing for papertrading. I am with markets only 1,5 year and lost $ 347 (at the beginning i was rush and after this lost (this lost was after month and many mistakes) i realized, that trading is not so easy). So i think, that i am not gambler...

perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way... specially if you are not yet really trading but still learning ... first, why dont you see if you understand why she gave you that ultimatum... is it because you are spending lots of time in front of a screen and not paying attention to her? is it because you are spending the rent money on the trading effort? find out from her what is making her give you that ultimatum, dont guess at it. Once you know, it is easier to figure out how to make a compromise and keep both...

if you are spending every hour online trading, then there is something wrong... and you should look at that... you might need to learn some time management and ensure to schedule your trading efforts when she is not around so there is no conflict for attention... women are simple, yet complicated, it is all about them and what they want.. which makes them rather easy to manipulate.. same thing for man, we are simple and we are all about ourselves, which is why woman find it so easy to manipulate as well.. so understand where the friction comes from and deflect or work around it..

there is always the option to find someone else... or just tell her no, it is the way it is... but I dont think that will end up the right way since she is not married to you or anything like that and can replace you quite easily..

it would all also be a different story if you were making money off the trading, then you could ask her if she wanted to give up whatever you were obtaining with the trading money and that would be the end of it..

oh, dont make the mistake that some might make to get her involve... she might turn out to understand things better than you and be a better trader than you... and if your ego can tolerate that, the relationship will pretty much be over... not many man can tolerate competition from their woman...

that is how I would proceed in any event, understand the issue at hand first, find the source, and address it..

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Baseheadz View Post
It's quite entertaining.

I am not sure I get the entertaining part of the experience of a gambling adict... that would be like saying that a cancer survivor support group member experience is entertaining... which to me is rather short sighted and close minded ... if I was to show up to a group of any kind that would be relating their experiences, it would be to learn from their mistakes and to recognize the signs of trouble... not to "entertain" myself... for that I would go to vegas and gamble or go to a firing range and fire a few shots at a few targets..

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  #64 (permalink)
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I agree, entertaining is not the word. Enlightening is more accurate.

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  #65 (permalink)
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Thank you for your responses. Very useful see other angle of view. The core problem I see in paying attention. We see each other mainly in weekends (we are living 40 km apart). She is studying at university and I have a job, so common living is not possible yet. I should make some compromises, if she approach on that. Maybe she is just despair, and give me ultimatum...

Once again, thank you for other view. Now it is up to me.

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Posts: 52 since Jun 2011

good article on addiction from MSNBC today.



updated 8/15/2011 1:15:01 PM ET 2011-08-15T17:15:01
Addiction is a chronic brain disorder and not simply a behavior problem involving alcohol, drugs, gambling or sex, experts contend in a new definition of addiction, one that is not solely related to problematic substance abuse.

The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) just released this new definition of addiction after a four-year process involving more than 80 experts.1.

its core, addiction isn't just a social problem or a moral problem or a criminal problem. It's a brain problem whose behaviors manifest in all these other areas," said Dr. Michael Miller, past president of ASAM who oversaw the development of the new definition. "Many behaviors driven by addiction are real problems and sometimes criminal acts. But the disease is about brains, not drugs. It's about underlying neurology, not outward actions."

The new definition also describes addiction as a primary disease, meaning that it's not the result of other causes, such as emotional or psychiatric problems. And like cardiovascular disease and diabetes, addiction is recognized as a chronic disease; so it must be treated, managed and monitored over a person's lifetime, the researchers say.
Two decades of advancements in neuroscience convinced ASAM officials that addiction should be redefined by what's going on in the brain. For instance, research has shown that addiction affects the brain's reward circuitry, such that memories of previous experiences with food, sex, alcohol and other drugs trigger cravings and more addictive behaviors. Brain circuitry that governs impulse control and judgment is also altered in the brains of addicts, resulting in the nonsensical pursuit of "rewards," such as alcohol and other drugs.
A long-standing debate has roiled over whether addicts have a choice over their behaviors, said Dr. Raju Hajela, former president of the Canadian Society of Addiction Medicine and chair of the ASAM committee on addiction's new definition.
"The disease creates distortions in thinking, feelings and perceptions, which drive people to behave in ways that are not understandable to others around them," Hajela said in a statement. "Simply put, addiction is not a choice. Addictive behaviors are a manifestation of the disease, not a cause."



Even so, Hajela pointed out, choice does play a role in getting help.
"Because there is no pill which alone can cure addiction, choosing recovery over unhealthy behaviors is necessary," Hajela said.
This "choosing recovery" is akin to people with heart disease who may not choose the underlying genetic causes of their heart problems but do need to choose to eat healthier or begin exercising, in addition to medical or surgical interventions, the researchers said.
"So, we have to stop moralizing, blaming, controlling or smirking at the person with the disease of addiction, and start creating opportunities for individuals and families to get help and providing assistance in choosing proper treatment," Miller said.

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gerimo View Post
Thank you for your responses. Very useful see other angle of view. The core problem I see in paying attention. We see each other mainly in weekends (we are living 40 km apart). She is studying at university and I have a job, so common living is not possible yet. I should make some compromises, if she approach on that. Maybe she is just despair, and give me ultimatum...

Once again, thank you for other view. Now it is up to me.

her a student and you have a job... easy to handle... some advice.. take it as you will.. ... not perfect advise, just drawing from my own experience, nothing more.

1) send her flowers, or teddies, or chocolates, etc... sporadically but scheduled (the scheduled part is so that you dont forget, but make it randomly really, setup your computer to generate ramdon alerts for you to send them) women love to receive presents.. and to showcase in front of her friends, so find out her class schedule and send it to her when she is in class... let her know you are thinking of her... that will score major points (and get you L**d) she will then be getting attention from all angles.

2) when you do see her, dont even look at a computer or even talk about trading... cook for her or take her somewhere on a picnic (whatever is cost effective, aka cheap).. and engage her on conversation that is about her.. keep her talking about her issues and challenges and listen and suggest, etc..

3) f*** her brains out when she comes around (assuming that you are having a sexual relationship of course, no offense intended with that suggestion) ... make her know that she has been missed, if you know what I mean.

those few things alone, will eliminate your problem.... guaranteed...

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  #68 (permalink)
 
 
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with all due respect to the "experts" ... addiction is not a disease... it has to do with a weak mind and character..

an addict finds fullfillment on their addiction because something else is amiss in their lives.. and as such they seek escape on that addiction... cigarretes, drugs, alcohol, gambling,sex, etc... they all try to address our needs differently.. many alter our brains chemically, and as such we chase the feeling to escape... usually the part that is missed is the whole: we are trying to escape, we will chase what makes us feel better, and because we want to continue to escape rather than fixing the source, we become adicted to chasing what makes us feel better.

addiction is very much a choice that a human makes over time to give into their desire to escape from their reality and rather accept their "new" reality... in which they are happy.. even if that in fact is short lived and it destroys them...

I am not an addict, but I have seen plenty of people who are and it all comes down to their character and what they are addressing internally (emotional/psychologically).. nothing more, or less...

society just seems to like excusing their members...



shah1266 View Post
good article on addiction from MSNBC today.



updated 8/15/2011 1:15:01 PM ET 2011-08-15T17:15:01
Addiction is a chronic brain disorder and not simply a behavior problem involving alcohol, drugs, gambling or sex, experts contend in a new definition of addiction, one that is not solely related to problematic substance abuse.

The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) just released this new definition of addiction after a four-year process involving more than 80 experts.1.

its core, addiction isn't just a social problem or a moral problem or a criminal problem. It's a brain problem whose behaviors manifest in all these other areas," said Dr. Michael Miller, past president of ASAM who oversaw the development of the new definition. "Many behaviors driven by addiction are real problems and sometimes criminal acts. But the disease is about brains, not drugs. It's about underlying neurology, not outward actions."

The new definition also describes addiction as a primary disease, meaning that it's not the result of other causes, such as emotional or psychiatric problems. And like cardiovascular disease and diabetes, addiction is recognized as a chronic disease; so it must be treated, managed and monitored over a person's lifetime, the researchers say.
Two decades of advancements in neuroscience convinced ASAM officials that addiction should be redefined by what's going on in the brain. For instance, research has shown that addiction affects the brain's reward circuitry, such that memories of previous experiences with food, sex, alcohol and other drugs trigger cravings and more addictive behaviors. Brain circuitry that governs impulse control and judgment is also altered in the brains of addicts, resulting in the nonsensical pursuit of "rewards," such as alcohol and other drugs.
A long-standing debate has roiled over whether addicts have a choice over their behaviors, said Dr. Raju Hajela, former president of the Canadian Society of Addiction Medicine and chair of the ASAM committee on addiction's new definition.
"The disease creates distortions in thinking, feelings and perceptions, which drive people to behave in ways that are not understandable to others around them," Hajela said in a statement. "Simply put, addiction is not a choice. Addictive behaviors are a manifestation of the disease, not a cause."



Even so, Hajela pointed out, choice does play a role in getting help.
"Because there is no pill which alone can cure addiction, choosing recovery over unhealthy behaviors is necessary," Hajela said.
This "choosing recovery" is akin to people with heart disease who may not choose the underlying genetic causes of their heart problems but do need to choose to eat healthier or begin exercising, in addition to medical or surgical interventions, the researchers said.
"So, we have to stop moralizing, blaming, controlling or smirking at the person with the disease of addiction, and start creating opportunities for individuals and families to get help and providing assistance in choosing proper treatment," Miller said.


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  #69 (permalink)
hartford
 
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2011

I agree in part systot,they are replacing something in their lives with these addictions but that does play into their chemical balance issues. As the 'high' does affect their chemical makup in their brains. Alot of drugs like Prozac affect the neurotrasmittor levels as helpful in increasing serotonin or norepi instead of the person looking for that high through those activities. I think the moral/weak will was used soley as the basis for addiction in days past,not so much anymore. Though I think it takes both. Cheers

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sysot1t, physical and psychological addiction are very real and expecting people to "just quit" is ignorant and naive. Now whether their "character", as you put it, determine their choices is another argument, but I think lifes choices are much more complicated than that.

Unfortunately people want simple black and white solutions, but this isn't reality.

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  #71 (permalink)
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It's amazing how supportive family can be after you're making consistent, big, money. Prior to that, there is little respect for the endeavor. My wife still doesn't quite understand that my research is 'work'. I'll chalk this phenomenon up to societal conditioning. We have been weaned on the idea that income comes from traditional means. We learn that anything else is somehow less valid. Sadly, it seems, respect and true support only come from provisions that successful trading effort can supply. If these provisions are large enough; ill-begotten feelings are replaced with admiration and approval.

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“Never believe that body is permanent. Body is like a water bubble. Mind is like a mad monkey.”
- Sri Sathya Sai Baba

May I remind us to give ourselves and each other approval today.

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MrYou View Post
sysot1t, physical and psychological addiction are very real and expecting people to "just quit" is ignorant and naive. Now whether their "character", as you put it, determine their choices is another argument, but I think lifes choices are much more complicated than that.

Unfortunately people want simple black and white solutions, but this isn't reality.

no, not really... I dont see how the expectation of someone to be able to apply themselves, fix their problem (the true one) addressing the source of the addiction, and quit their addiction is "ignorant" or even "naive"... I just believe that people have choices and they have to assume responsibility for their decision; but in this society we live in we have come to expect to not have any personal responsibilities for our choices and decisions.. and there are plenty of "experts" out there willing to go along with the flow and certify things that come down to the human state of mind...

and please note, that I never said it was black and white... I dont think of things on those terms...

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zer0 View Post
Sadly, it seems, respect and true support only come from provisions that successful trading effort can supply. If these provisions are large enough; ill-begotten feelings are replaced with admiration and approval.

there is a reason why everyone on the king pin drug dealer's family looks away from the illegal business of trafficking or dealing, right?! regardless of where profit comes, money changes the perspectives of those around you rather quickly if you start sharing said $$$...

of course, I used the most illegal example to demonstrate my point.. note that I am not suggesting that anyone should go out there and start doing illegal stuff that will get them in trouble.

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  #75 (permalink)
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Everyone respects a famous (rich) actor, musician, or actor as well. Starving artists and traders will not likely ever get respect. That makes the endeavor ever the more daunting, since there are additional pressures, other than from within, to generate success.


sysot1t View Post
there is a reason why everyone on the king pin drug dealer's family looks away from the illegal business of trafficking or dealing, right?! regardless of where profit comes, money changes the perspectives of those around you rather quickly if you start sharing said $$$...

of course, I used the most illegal example to demonstrate my point.. note that I am not suggesting that anyone should go out there and start doing illegal stuff that will get them in trouble.


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I am wondering if the posters in this thread that were involving their wife/spouse in their trading have anything new to report?

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  #77 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I am wondering if the posters in this thread that were involving their wife/spouse in their trading have anything new to report?

Mike

I wouldn't wish it on her!

Like many people, I did the 'trading is my passion' thing. I was hungry for information, spent all of my free time researching, reading books, forums etc.etc.etc.

It sucked the spare time out of me.

Now - here's the odd thing. I got to the point where it was simply not necessary to spend this time on trading any more. I'd learnt what I needed to learn but I still ended up spending all my time on this thing. This does not mean there is no room for improvement but that's different from that whole 24x7 research thing.

For some reason, I could not bring myself to take the time back.

Even quite recently, I found myself watching the markets at 3pm my time, 3am EST. I finished at midnight my time, lunchtime EST. You know what - even though I'd been making out of hours trades, this was not really making me any more money.

In the end, as of the start of this year, I promised myself I'd scale back. I still catch myself doing the odd out of hours trade but now, I'm more inclined to have a look see and then go to the park with the kids. Now I try to stick to 8:30pm->midnight my time.

It almost feels like cheating now. Spending a little over 15 hours a week actually trading.

Trading isn't my passion. The family is my passion. I guess maybe I needed to 'pay my dues' time-wise but really, 99% of my time was spent on stuff that was of no use at all, not to mention programming all sorts of nonsense systems that were worth $0.

I'm glad I got out from under it.

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  #78 (permalink)
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Trading is so very difficult. I think you have to set things up in a way that family can handle. Trading is not worth damaging relationships and can do it quickly. There are many things I did in the learning curve that affected my family in a negative way that I regret. Honestly in hindsight there are many things I would do differently.

Something to consider is allocating a certain amount of capital that you and your significant other agree can be lost. If it's lost that is it your trading career is over. I think hard part on family is the endless black hole of losses that can be created. It can be hard to stop and can burn up everything you have. Would not hurt to have some accountability on that from someone else.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #79 (permalink)
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I am a full-time swing trader and father of two. One of the big challenges for me is that since I work from home, I get drawn more and more into domestic chores and distractions. For instance, every day I take my girls to school and daycare. We leave a little after 11 am ET and I get back at around 1230. This is usually a bit frustrating, but manageable.

This morning I had a couple of smallish, but significant, positions on in precious metals and was looking to possibly add on a pullback. Although I realized that PMs were very overbought, given all the recent positive economic news I underestimated the extent to which the market was expecting QE3. My stops were set to a little above breakeven. Anyway, as I see gold start selling off, I had to get my girls up for school. I was trying to watch the Bernanke testimony, but I had to feed them and make school lunch. The girls were watching Big Time Rush, so I was streaming the testimony from the web in my office while cooking in the kitchen. My wife who went part time at her job last year, had an early meeting so I was largely left on my own to get them out the door on time.

After cooking, brushing teeth and potty, I found a couple of minutes to sit down, evaluate, and double check my stop placements before leaving. At this point my 4 year old, came to me asking for pigtails for school. I can usually manage this, but I'm a lot more comfortable with just a ponytail. Anyway, as I sat at the computer losing thousands in unrealized profits per minute, I struggled with making pigtails for a while and then tried to convince my daughter to go without today. Of course, she started crying and ran to tell Mommy on me.

Anyway, I finally delivered them to school and have returned, but I agreed to a late menu change, so I've got another 45 minute trip now that Comex pit trading has closed to deliver the revised lunch. Although I gave back more than my wife's salary today in unrealized gains, it was according to my (somewhat flawed) plan, so I am not really too frustrated. I will just wait again for the next opportunity and start all over.

I guess the lesson learned from this morning is that I need to practice up on my pigtails so that I can execute them quickly under stress.

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  #80 (permalink)
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Jolew View Post
I am a full-time swing trader and father of two. One of the big challenges for me is that since I work from home, I get drawn more and more into domestic chores and distractions. For instance, every day I take my girls to school and daycare. We leave a little after 11 am ET and I get back at around 1230. This is usually a bit frustrating, but manageable.

This morning I had a couple of smallish, but significant, positions on in precious metals and was looking to possibly add on a pullback. Although I realized that PMs were very overbought, given all the recent positive economic news I underestimated the extent to which the market was expecting QE3. My stops were set to a little above breakeven. Anyway, as I see gold start selling off, I had to get my girls up for school. I was trying to watch the Bernanke testimony, but I had to feed them and make school lunch. The girls were watching Big Time Rush, so I was streaming the testimony from the web in my office while cooking in the kitchen. My wife who went part time at her job last year, had an early meeting so I was largely left on my own to get them out the door on time.

After cooking, brushing teeth and potty, I found a couple of minutes to sit down, evaluate, and double check my stop placements before leaving. At this point my 4 year old, came to me asking for pigtails for school. I can usually manage this, but I'm a lot more comfortable with just a ponytail. Anyway, as I sat at the computer losing thousands in unrealized profits per minute, I struggled with making pigtails for a while and then tried to convince my daughter to go without today. Of course, she started crying and ran to tell Mommy on me.

Anyway, I finally delivered them to school and have returned, but I agreed to a late menu change, so I've got another 45 minute trip now that Comex pit trading has closed to deliver the revised lunch. Although I gave back more than my wife's salary today in unrealized gains, it was according to my (somewhat flawed) plan, so I am not really too frustrated. I will just wait again for the next opportunity and start all over.

I guess the lesson learned from this morning is that I need to practice up on my pigtails so that I can execute them quickly under stress.

Trading with distraction will lead to losing long term. One way you might overcome that is developing and AT system. Also the tighter the time frame day vs longer term will punish you more for distraction. Shorter time frame demands less distraction to be successful.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #81 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Trading with distraction will lead to losing long term. One way you might overcome that is developing and AT system. Also the tighter the time frame day vs longer term will punish you more for distraction. Shorter time frame demands less distraction to be successful.

I am definitely a longer time frame trader, so I figure I can't totally avoid distractions. This kind of thing happens to me several times a year and is actually part of my system. I can't say with certainty that I would have done better totally without distraction. I was actually thinking of it more from the point of view of being able to operate under stress and it made me smile as I thought about how to handle pigtails better next time.

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  #82 (permalink)
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Jolew View Post
I am definitely a longer time frame trader, so I figure I can't totally avoid distractions. This kind of thing happens to me several times a year and is actually part of my system. I can't say with certainty that I would have done better totally without distraction. I was actually thinking of it more from the point of view of being able to operate under stress and it made me smile as I thought about how to handle pigtails better next time.

@Jolew

Hermione, "Im going to bed before you two get us killed... or worse ..... expelled!"

Ron Weasley to Harry Potter, "She really should sort out her priorities"

The markets will always be there .... daughters asking you to braid their hair... not so much

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #83 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@Jolew


The markets will always be there .... daughters asking you to braid their hair... not so much

Couldn't agree more. That's why the remedial action will be more hairstyling practice!

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  #84 (permalink)
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I plan on coming back to this thread read the title page of thread , I got here from another thread of Mikes , this thread hits home for me
it is very difficult to express what Trading is , It really messed me up mentally when close friend's condemned me for Trading. My wife does support me also have a close friend who is also a counselor support me . I also talked to a pastor at Church who supports me. The snag is I still remember the negative comments more than the positive.
My wife encourages me to not even talk about what i do , people would not understand anyhow all they care to know is how much money you are making or loosing and or how you did it

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  #85 (permalink)
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overall, i'd say hubby's been very patient while i take up this new skill. i've lost about half my stake between "education", "alerts" and plain old losses, and for him to still support me at all is really testament to his faith in me. which is not unfounded - learning to trade reminds me of when i was in college and had to fill a science requirement. i went from having a D average to ending the class with a B+ and that was back in the day, before grade inflation. i went to every tutorial, help session, and got help from friends - i was like, B or bust. i've also learned how to do other things i wasn't particularly good at to start with, out of interest in the subject. i know if you work hard and are determined, you can succeed. and after 23 yrs dh knows me well enough to know once i get into that taurus bull-determined state, just step aside. it's gonna take longer than i anticipated, though. that's ok, i have a good 20 yrs of trading ahead of me - i don't need to make it happen ASAP.

this has been good for my husband, too, as now he has total responsibility for the kids while i trade. this happens to be in the early AM - otherwise we could never do it as has to leave for work around 10. at first, he literally could not make their sandwiches for school lunch and was always forgetting to check their backpacks for homework, etc. now i hear him really in charge, making sure they have all their stuff, combing their hair, making sure they get to school on time.

at first nobody understood trading takes *total focus* and would ask me questions while i was concentrating on my position. i just kept repeating, i can't talk to you right now. they get the picture now, all of them.

my older boy is the one i can most easily talk to about trading. he understands the charts, he can just *see* it. he in fact gives me good advice. hubby is starting to catch on but he gets a faraway look still when i go into details about time decay, strike price...but he does make an effort and is catching on.

so basically, so far, so good.

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  #86 (permalink)
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They keep trying to take my computer away from me. You fall asleep in the middle of a couple of trades and people start freaking out... sheesh...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #87 (permalink)
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i see you are highly experienced. nice to think eventually, it gets boring enough you can fall asleep. sleep is good...speakng of which, it's midnight! time to crash!

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  #88 (permalink)
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As traders we all read a lot of trading books, both technically and psychologically oriented. Personally I think it would be extremely valuable to have a book aimed specifically at wives/husbands who do not trade. No need for a 500 page epic, just a few chapters bringing the partner into the picture of what's involved.

"Married to a trader - by DarkPool" The book would have the following chapters:
- Trading basics
- The psychological battle
- Losses: They're part of the business
- Trading: It's a business
- The journey: The process your significant other must go through to be become successful

hmmm, i've always wanted to be an writer/author...

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  #89 (permalink)
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
As traders we all read a lot of trading books, both technically and psychologically oriented. Personally I think it would be extremely valuable to have a book aimed specifically at wives/husbands who do not trade. No need for a 500 page epic, just a few chapters bringing the partner into the picture of what's involved.

"Married to a trader - by DarkPool" The book would have the following chapters:
- Trading basics
- The psychological battle
- Losses: They're part of the business
- Trading: It's a business
- The journey: The process your significant other must go through to be become successful

hmmm, i've always wanted to be an writer/author...

Just like some people want each spouse to have their own separate checking account and their "own" money, some do not want to share details of trading. Especially since it will involve a lot of personal mistakes that aren't easy for most people to own up to.

But I think that if you are the kind of person that shares with your spouse, then I believe you could gain a lot of support by involving your spouse with your trading. Not just telling them what happened each day, but trying to get them to experience it for themselves, by making their own trades.

Mike

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  #90 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Just like some people want each spouse to have their own separate checking account and their "own" money, some do not want to share details of trading. Especially since it will involve a lot of personal mistakes that aren't easy for most people to own up to.

But I think that if you are the kind of person that shares with your spouse, then I believe you could gain a lot of support by involving your spouse with your trading. Not just telling them what happened each day, but trying to get them to experience it for themselves, by making their own trades.

Mike

Agreed. For me personally, I want my wife to know as much about my trading as is reasonably possible. We are both very open with each other about finances and because of that we seldom fight about money. I dont expect my wife to know the finer details of trading (because quite frankly she's in marketing and has no interest in it), but she does I feel need a good overview of what it involves.

My thinking is that when things are going well, your spouse will support your trading. But when things are not going well and you're on a losing streak, only then will you find out if your spouse really supports you or not. And it is at that point, that if your wife understands what you do, she will be more likely to continue supporting you through the hard times.

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  #91 (permalink)
Harrisburg pa
 
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the snag talking to others about trading the market who are not traders , is trading is an learned experience , unless someone else has experienced what it is to trade , there's nothing to talk about , , with out expressed experience , how can others support what a trader does ?

those on the outside only have 2 question's they would like to know , how much $$$$ is made or lost and or show me how

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  #92 (permalink)
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A couple of recent posts from @GaryD and @tderrick made me wonder if these two guys would mind sharing more about how their wife views their trading.

Are they actively involved? Do they take an interest? Do they just want a reliable check?

Have they ever traded on their own, to see how hard it is?

Do you guys ever fight about trading?

Sorry for being nosy, I am a bit jealous in this regard as I have no spouse (just my dogs!) and just wonder what you guys are going through.

Mike

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  #93 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
A couple of recent posts from @GaryD and @tderrick made me wonder if these two guys would mind sharing more about how their wife views their trading.

Are they actively involved? Do they take an interest? Do they just want a reliable check?

Have they ever traded on their own, to see how hard it is?

Do you guys ever fight about trading?

Sorry for being nosy, I am a bit jealous in this regard as I have no spouse (just my dogs!) and just wonder what you guys are going through.

Mike


OK.. I'll start...

Let me tell you about my wife.

I met her at a club in Ft Walton Beach FL. She was waiting tables and I was running sound for a rock band.
We (the band) were on the South Eastern Rock club circuit in the 80's... well you can imagine... I was about as free as a man could be. We were like nomads.

Nancy has always been a "Saver".... birds, squirrels, dogs.. whatever. She took one look at me and
knew I needed "Saving" ... not in the religious sense mind you.

She "ensnared" me by breaking a glass next to me and she fell for me when I helped her clean it up. !!
Sneeky!!

It took me much longer to fall, as I simply was not looking. I slowly changed as we started dating.
The rest is history.

When I said I wanted to go Nashville during the Garth Brooks boom, to be a recording engineer, she
never flinched. We loaded up a Ryder truck and hit the road. Me, her and two dogs in the front of that
truck.

She supported us for the first year waiting tables as I beat the pavement around Nashville looking for that
door to open... Taking the odd live sound gig here and there. But always "having big fun"!!

So, to the present. I have been engineering music for 22 years now. Good pay when it comes.
Being self employed only works if you are doing what you love. The future is always in doubt. But, then
I have always lived like that.

So, to my wife, trading is nothing. We have been through so much together, this is just the next phase.
I will show her some trading stuff and she will politely sit and try to understand, but it truly is rocket science
to most, as I explain support and resistance and how I can deduce if price does this, it will probably do this.

She see's the potential and seem's genuinely excited. She also understands when I say when I trade live
money, my mind works differently. Exactly how I used to blank out when I was first engineering. Trial by fire
is the only cure. Then she understands. It is just a matter of time before I can trade and make all the money
we need. We will then just sit on the porch and watch the horses on the farm.

We will go to the grave together. True soul mates and critter lovers.
9 horses
7 dogs
and 1 cat.

All "saved" ... just like me.


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
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  #94 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post

Sorry for being nosy, I am a bit jealous in this regard as I have no spouse (just my dogs!) ....

Mike

@Big Mike

In my life there have been women and there have been dogs....

No matter what time I came home....

No matter what shape I was in....

The dogs were always glad to see me...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #95 (permalink)
Data Wizard!!!
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Big Mike View Post
A couple of recent posts from @GaryD and @tderrick made me wonder if these two guys would mind sharing more about how their wife views their trading.

Are they actively involved? Do they take an interest? Do they just want a reliable check?

Have they ever traded on their own, to see how hard it is?

Do you guys ever fight about trading?

Sorry for being nosy, I am a bit jealous in this regard as I have no spouse (just my dogs!) and just wonder what you guys are going through.

Mike

I thought I would share...

I asked my wife tonight what she thought of my trading. To be honest I don't think I have ever asked before. She said "Its your passion what you love to do. I totally support it and would never keep you away from what you love to do. But there have been times you get so involved that you fail to see the world around you. That's when I have to drag you back to reality.. " She knows someday I will go full time trading. She understands all to well the mortality rate of trading accounts. This scares her a little. I don't blame her there. With my day job I get a steady check but with trading you never know.

We have never had a fight about trading and she has no interest in learning. She is always interested in what I am working on even though she does not totally understand it.

Her biggest contribution to my trading is her listening. When I am frustrated what I am working on she listens to what I have to say and gives me advice or just lets me vent.

When I am on the computer too much she always ask "Are you working on work stuff or Silver Dragon stuff?" This is my queue that I need to come back to reality

Robert

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  #96 (permalink)
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i have a slightly different perspective to offer.

I am only 22, single, and currently living with my parents. So I do not have a wife and kids take, but I do have a parents, friends, and family take.

I started trading because my father had started. He has not yet had success in the market, as we are struggling financially which has forced him to spend his time on his reliable job (construction), at the expense of learning trading. last summer, before my senior year of college, I "interned" with him as he paper-traded the ES, and when I left again for college a year ago I began trading on my own.

Needless to say, my father is my biggest supporter. He understands just how difficult trading is, and is as supportive as one could be. My mother took a little longer to come around. she is supportive of everything I work towards, so she was never unsupportive, but I think for a while she thought I was simply trying to get rich quick, and was afraid I would hurt myself in the process. Once I began taking it very seriously (that is to say preparing for the business that it is, and putting in hours after the market closed), she became very supportive. Once she saw that I was going to work my ass off for this she understood that I was not looking for a shortcut to wealth, and she became as supportive as a kid could ask for. the fact that my parents are letting me live at home - for free - while I choose to day trade instead of get a "real job," even though I'm not yet making profits, says it all.

My siblings are also very supportive. My sister supports me, but also makes comments about how she's waiting for me to get rich for, and how if it works out for me maybe she'll try. She is supportive, but also a classic example of someone who doesn't understand that trading is a full time job/business, and not a shortcut for people hoping to get rich quick. My brother, who is the fiscally secure one in the family, is very supportive, as he happily wrote me a check so that I could open up a trading account, under the negotiation that he would receive a cut of my profits. It is an investment, but you also don't simply write $2000 checks to people when you're in grad school unless you believe in them.

My best friends are very supportive but I don't think they understand that this is work in the true sense. My parents friends certainly don't understand. I don't know if this is true for the older adults here, but people who don't trade tend to look at people my age (again, 22) who trade and think that they're playing online poker. They think we're trying to get rich, we don't know what we're doing, we don't know how to work, and that we're too lazy to get a job. They don't see that I wake up at 6AM (i'm in CA), and spend late nights studying and reading psychology books. I don't hold this against them, because I had some similar apprehensions about my father starting trading.

Anyway, that's how my parents, siblings, and friends feel about it. Hope this provides some insight to others.

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  #97 (permalink)
Miami/FL/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Trading: FDAX,TF,EMD
 
Posts: 34 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 20 given, 40 received

As a mother of four little kids and a full time trader of Futures & Stocks,i couldn't do it without my Husband
Support,Its not about the passion of trading,For me it's all about makeing money at home.

I have been a Lawyer for 12 Years and i couldn't take it any moreI never spent time with my Kids and my
Husband,I was Stuck in the Court House for hours without getting pay,meeting with clients etc...So my Husband
Had to take care of the cleaning,the Kids,cooking etc...

Trading as you know can be Ups and Downs,Good days and bad days,making money or losing money,so if
You don't have a Spouse to back you up,its a very risky business...

I am thanking G-D every morning that i have my Kids(which don't know nothing about trading because their age)
but i am Thanking G-D for my Husband more than anything else because without him i could't do what i am doing.

I also would like to thank futures.io (formerly BMT) for opening my eyes for a lot of things that i did"t know about trading,There are
a lot of traders in futures.io (formerly BMT) Forums that helped and supported me for almost 1 year already

I would like to thank Fat Tail for his amazing support and Tips and ideas,I also would like to thank TMFT for his
Great indicators and replay for my request and questions,and i owe a lot of thank you to the Wizard that was the
the first member in futures.io (formerly BMT) Forum that
help me starting understanding futures.io (formerly BMT) web-site and gave me lots of help,templates,Indicators etc...

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  #98 (permalink)
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
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caryn23 View Post
As a mother of four little kids and a full time trader of Futures & Stocks,i couldn't do it without my Husband Support...

I am thanking G-D every morning that i have my Kids(which don't know nothing about trading because their age)
but i am Thanking G-D for my Husband more than anything else because without him i could't do what i am doing.

@caryn23

My hat is off to you ... ma'am ...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #99 (permalink)
Miami/FL/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
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Posts: 34 since Oct 2011
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Dear TMFT.

You are so sweet!!! Thank you again for sharing your great
Indicators and tools,G-D bless you for your big heart,You
Are always willing to help traders including myself.

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  #100 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@Big Mike

In my life there have been women and there have been dogs....

No matter what time I came home....

No matter what shape I was in....

The dogs were always glad to see me...

After all my failed dates and still being single, even though finding success in trading is a poor substitute, it's better than being with someone that I definitely do not want to be with.

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futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading


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