Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading - futures io
futures io



Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 27 posts (84 thanks)
    2. looks_two vmodus with 11 posts (32 thanks)
    3. looks_3 sysot1t with 10 posts (8 thanks)
    4. looks_4 cami02 with 7 posts (5 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one George with 10.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two soumi71 with 6.7 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 3.1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 vmodus with 2.9 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 48,072 views
    2. thumb_up 639 thanks given
    3. group 166 followers
    1. forum 249 posts
    2. attach_file 3 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading

(login for full post details)
  #201 (permalink)
 deaddog 
Legendary Market Wizard
Prince George BC Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IBs TWS
Broker: IB
Trading: Stocks
 
deaddog's Avatar
 
Posts: 868 since May 2013
Thanks: 135 given, 2,341 received


ClearTrades View Post
So basically at this time we have allocated 25% of our life savings to the trading account. We can "afford to lose" it but it is really painful to see a drawdown. I can see where she is coming from because the loss represents like a months salary. That cannot keep happening in a row...
Edit: i believe i am getting better. But basically im at breakeven atm.

What % of your account are you losing. 25% of life savings and a months salary have no context.
If you are losing 1 or 2 %, then that is to be expected in trading. If you are losing 10% then you are eventually going broke.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to deaddog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #202 (permalink)
 bob7123 
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, IRT, ToS, Ninja
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: NQ
 
bob7123's Avatar
 
Posts: 658 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 133 given, 2,645 received


ClearTrades View Post
I have an agreement with my wife to tell her how my trades went each day. She wants to know and be informed. So today my stop loss was hit and so i told her what i lost. Now she is super frustrated with me and doubting me and is moping around and getting upset and slamming doors and just left the house. I figured out the reason for my poor trade and have made adjustments to my strategy. But she doesnt get it and every time i have a loss and fix my strategy to make it better, all i can say to her is say, i think i figured it out so i can do better next time. And she says thats what you always say... And you still lost.
But each loss has been for a different reason and i am learning from my mistakes but it doesnt look that way to her.
Now she is saying things like she is questioning decisions she made to trust me etc. Etc. Basically trying to save the relationship etc. Anyone have any advice?

I think you need to do a better job of informing her.

I see her as an even less experienced trader than you, emotionally anyway, and as anyone in this game for any length of time can tell you, it's pretty much all emotion.

You need to do a better job ensuring she understands how much of a drawdown can happen and accept it BEFORE it happens. You also need to show her you are following your rules; its not up to her to believe you. How well are you tracking your performance?

Trust is not owed, it's earned.

Sorry if that's a bit hard to hear, but you asked.

Two other pieces of advice, worth every cent you paid for 'em: a) BOTH of you go read What I Learned Losing a Million Dollars and discuss it. b) Go back to sim until the E-micros come out next week.

I hope trading enhances your relationship, but for now it sounds like it's corroding it. Time to update more than just your trading plan.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to bob7123 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #203 (permalink)
 xplorer 
Site Moderator
London UK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: CQG
Broker: S5
Trading: Futures
 
xplorer's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,354 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 13,486 given, 12,952 received

@ClearTrades

Firstly I agree about what @bob7123 said. People who do not trade are unlikely to understand that trades may fail for a variety of reasons and fixing something today does not necessarily guarantee a winning trade tomorrow. So trying to articulate as fully as possible the randomness in markets as well as human nature's of making mistakes is helpful.
All the above provided you are 100% confident you already have a positive expectancy of course.

I would also review the values you and your wife share, i.e. revisit the fundamentals of your relationship (e.g. love, trust, passion in something, etc.), whatever they may be. I'm sure money is important in relationships but remembering why one got together in the first place is always worth pointing out (not to us here on FIO, I mean between the two of you).

My 2 c.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to xplorer for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #204 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


ClearTrades View Post
I have an agreement with my wife to tell her how my trades went each day. She wants to know and be informed. So today my stop loss was hit and so i told her what i lost. Now she is super frustrated with me and doubting me and is moping around and getting upset and slamming doors and just left the house. I figured out the reason for my poor trade and have made adjustments to my strategy. But she doesnt get it and every time i have a loss and fix my strategy to make it better, all i can say to her is say, i think i figured it out so i can do better next time. And she says thats what you always say... And you still lost.
But each loss has been for a different reason and i am learning from my mistakes but it doesnt look that way to her.
Now she is saying things like she is questioning decisions she made to trust me etc. Etc. Basically trying to save the relationship etc. Anyone have any advice?

I've been on the other side, where it was my wife trading and me supporting her process. She went 10 years without being profitable, but I supported her, even during some dark times (she is now regularly profitable). I was the one who pointed her in the direction of trading and she loves it. Now I am at my own trading desk (starting at the beginning of this year), so she is now required to have the same level of patience as I work through losses and systemic failures. Fortunately, she understands because she has been there and has been completely supportive.

One thing that is deadly to your day-to-day trading, in my opinion, is that she is inserting her FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) into your process. I would recommend nixing the daily updates, because it will affect your psychology deeply as her stresses will seep into your trading. You will be trading to satisfy her inherent need for security (or other needs), and her risk tolerance is probably not the same as your risk tolerance. Cut those updates to weekly, or ideally monthly. Unless you are losing $1k+ per day.....then maybe you need to work on your system before trading live.

If you are trying to earn and learn at the same time, that is probably a bad idea. You will have plenty of losses while learning and ti may be months or longer before you are regularly profitable. It is part of the process. As someone mentioned, work in sim first or what for the e-micros to come out this month and trade those. I think the sim idea is probably the best, because you can then show her how it should look. It won't necessarily allay her fears, but maybe it will bring some understanding and empathy.

I am guessing she is not a trader. I encourage you to invite her into your trading room and walk her through your process. Describe how you feel before, during, and after you make a trade. Talk about risk, money management, and psychology. Don't try to impress her with numbers.

One of my friends here on FIO is @snax, who has a really disciplined approach to training and developing as a trader (the good trading habits) in sim, before actually jumping into live trading. I recommend looking at his journal.

If trading is ruining your relationship, then you may want to reconsider trading. Your wife needs to be patient and supportive. Success doesn't happen in a day, week or month. This is a lifetime thing, and you and your wife need to be committed together on this or everything will come falling down. If you (and wife) don't have the time, patience and resources (money) for the long haul, then you need to decide what is more important. You can ask around here, but a trading account is much easier to replace than a spouse.

I kind of went all over the place with this response, but I do agree with a lot of other's responses. I sincerely hope this helps and best of luck.

~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #205 (permalink)
 bob7123 
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, IRT, ToS, Ninja
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: NQ
 
bob7123's Avatar
 
Posts: 658 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 133 given, 2,645 received


vmodus View Post

[...]

One thing that is deadly to your day-to-day trading, in my opinion, is that she is inserting her FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) into your process. I would recommend nixing the daily updates, because it will affect your psychology deeply as her stresses will seep into your trading. You will be trading to satisfy her inherent need for security (or other needs), and her risk tolerance is probably not the same as your risk tolerance. Cut those updates to weekly, or ideally monthly. Unless you are losing $1k+ per day.....then maybe you need to work on your system before trading live.

If you are trying to earn and learn at the same time, that is probably a bad idea.
[...]

I am guessing she is not a trader. I encourage you to invite her into your trading room and walk her through your process. Describe how you feel before, during, and after you make a trade. Talk about risk, money management, and psychology. Don't try to impress her with numbers.

One of my friends here on FIO is @snax, who has a really disciplined approach to training and developing as a trader (the good trading habits) in sim, before actually jumping into live trading. I recommend looking at his journal.

[..]

I kind of went all over the place with this response, but I do agree with a lot of other's responses. I sincerely hope this helps and best of luck.

~vmodus

Far from being all over the place, I think that was a great post. I think it's a great template for talking to your spouse, as well as how to have productive self talk too.

Thanks, and thanks for the tip about @snax's journal.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to bob7123 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #206 (permalink)
ClearTrades
Yakima WA
 
 
Posts: 28 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 67 given, 20 received

My wife is not a trader, and she is very emotional. I have a very high risk tolerance (she does not). She really enjoys the feeling of security a steady paycheck can bring and up until a week ago I had one. Now I am out of a day job and steady paycheck so the stress of adjusting to that plus the timing of the drawdown sucks and threw her over the edge because the plan is me to earn by trading for a living instead of getting another job.
I do have a trading journal i keep in a spreadheet on my computer so i could show her that with all my notes and color highlights etc. But not sure she would get it so it would even help her. So much of getting better comes with experience and being immersed in it and being able to "see". Non trader will not understand what you see.

Basically every day I make money she says good job. But if I lose its like she loses all hope. I told her if it gets to the point I have to go get a job I will. Trying to calm her down.
I am not at the point of needing to do that though because I track my trades on a daily basis and cannsee how much on average I will make a week. And i keep a weekly budget tracking every single expense and have projected that out for the year. So when i compare the gains in trading projected against the budget, it all maths out fine. But trying to restore faith in me is tough since i have lost a lot of money in the past... With different failed strategies, and so even though my strategy now is different, she sees any loss as cumulative of instead of seeing a loss from an old trading strategy as an isolated event that is unrelated to my current method/system.

I have found that she usually calms down if she goes out and gets exercise, or i buy her roses and a card if it gets really extreme (which is what I did when she found out I was out of a job). She is very sensitive. Fortunately am usually quite stable emotionally so we make a good team. Usually i can calm her down.

So far everything today seems alright since I made money today Lol.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #207 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


ClearTrades View Post
Basically every day I make money she says good job. But if I lose its like she loses all hope. I told her if it gets to the point I have to go get a job I will. Trying to calm her down.

This is why maybe weekly updates are better than daily. The big picture is hard to see when you're in the thicket. If you believe that your system has a statistical edge, then you need to convince her that your system is sound. Then just go and execute your plan.

~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #208 (permalink)
 centaurer 
south africa
 
 
Posts: 169 since Dec 2018

25% of your life savings IMO is totally irresponsible in a partnership. I don't care how passionate you are, the overwhelming chance is you are going to lose that money actively trading.

If you are old and don't have a ton of time left to live that amount is too high.
If you are young you are risking the capital with the longest time to compound so it is a bad idea.

Personally, I would get a second job and tell the wife the money from this second job is for your trading bankroll.
So what if it takes you a few years to save up.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #209 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received

@centaurer
I would agree to a point. However, if you treat your trading like a business, i.e. entrepreneurial, then it would not be irresponsible. I cashed out a 401k to start one of my businesses, which went on to be successful. Then I funded another company that was mildly profitable, then another that was barely profitable, then another that was a disaster (not our fault, rather a vendor that became insolvent before delivering equipment). And one more that is profitable.

All of my/our capital was/is at risk, whether we were providing services, selling retail, or manufacturing (we have done all of these). We would do it all over again for any of these businesses, given the same circumstances, despite major losses or lean times along the way. That is probably why we can trade like we do. When we accept the risks and reward of our trading business, it is no different than when our vendor screwed us out of $50k in inventory. And when you lose $50k like that, it makes a $500 trading loss feel like nothing.

Like you, I would probably drive an Uber, substitute teach, or do whatever if I needed to bootstrap my trading business. Whatever it takes...

~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #210 (permalink)
 centaurer 
south africa
 
 
Posts: 169 since Dec 2018

@vmodus It is no different than if your wife has been really inspired by watching James Holzhauer on Jeapordy and wants to use 25% of your combined life savings to fund a sports betting business.

Of course she could find edges like James Holzhauer but the overwhelming chance is that is not the case.

I guess it depends though how much you value the marriage. If you don't value the marriage much then it makes sense with basically using the wife's income stream as leverage.

IMO it is best to just avoid having the wife altogether and answer to no one when it comes to your capital.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #211 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


centaurer View Post
IMO it is best to just avoid having the wife altogether and answer to no one when it comes to your capital.

That's my dad's approach to trading (though he still has the wife). She doesn't bug him about the trading, so he answers only to himself in that respect. It helps that he is regularly profitable.

Answering to no one definitely has it's appeal. Speaking for my wife and I, we are both quantifiably better traders with each other than by ourselves. If I didn't have a wife who totally understands the business, then I would definitely be flying solo.

cheers,
~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #212 (permalink)
 santino 
barcelona (Spain)
 
Experience: None
Platform: ninja.....
Trading: ES,
 
Posts: 22 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 30 given, 10 received

I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT MY WIFE KNOWS PERFECTLY WELL HOW HARD THIS TRADING IS; I HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION BECAUSE MY WIFE HAS A BAD CHARACTER AND YET WHEN SHE SAW THAT THINGS WERE NOT GOING VERY WELL, SHE NEVER SAID ANYTHING UNPLEASANT.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to santino for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #213 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
Webinar Host
Indianoplace, IN
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart
Broker: CQG
Trading: All Micros, especially the ones that move
 
Rrrracer's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,400 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 16,602 given, 9,091 received


vmodus View Post
Speaking for my wife and I, we are both quantifiably better traders with each other than by ourselves. If I didn't have a wife who totally understands the business, then I would definitely be flying solo.


I like this... a lot. Amy has recently expressed some interest in trading... I would be thrilled if she decided to take the plunge, think it would be great to bounce off each other. Hmmm..

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Rrrracer for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #214 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,489 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 2,427 given, 3,758 received


ClearTrades View Post
Anyone have any advice?

I read your comments and interaction.

Here is the problem; you are trying to calm your wife down without being factual and saying what trading is all about. Telling her that it's hard makes your argument weak, and this ongoing interaction does not create a positive environment for you. Markets are hard enough, and "trying harder" doe not make you a better trader.
Sit down with her, and tell her that there would be many consecutive losses, there are drawdowns and a learning curve that may take years. Most reasonable people who faced with facts become very understanding.

Most independent business people who rely on varying business cycles are faced with good periods, bad periods, and lackluster, just like any trader! If every businessperson came home and his/her spouse was breathing down his/her neck, we would still be hunting for mammoths while living in a cave.

Create a positive environment for you in every aspect of life. It's the first foundation of success in my opinion.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #215 (permalink)
 centaurer 
south africa
 
 
Posts: 169 since Dec 2018


vmodus View Post
That's my dad's approach to trading (though he still has the wife). She doesn't bug him about the trading, so he answers only to himself in that respect. It helps that he is regularly profitable.

Answering to no one definitely has it's appeal. Speaking for my wife and I, we are both quantifiably better traders with each other than by ourselves. If I didn't have a wife who totally understands the business, then I would definitely be flying solo.

cheers,
~vmodus

I know I am an outlier in the other direction just because I am so bad at lasting relationships even without money being an issue.

Statistically though, money is the #1 cause of divorce. So if you introduce volatility to your cash flow and savings you introduce volatility to the marriage at average.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/20101101/why-so-many-entrepreneurs-get-divorced.html

I am sure you are an outlier in the trading business. I have dated so many women and none were anything like Tracy Alloway.

That might be a good measure for guys here. How far is the woman in your life from posting this on her social media:


vmodus is going to be hard to beat I think.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #216 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


centaurer View Post
I know I am an outlier in the other direction just because I am so bad at lasting relationships even without money being an issue.

Statistically though, money is the #1 cause of divorce. So if you introduce volatility to your cash flow and savings you introduce volatility to the marriage at average.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/20101101/why-so-many-entrepreneurs-get-divorced.html

I am sure you are an outlier in the trading business. I have dated so many women and none were anything like Tracy Alloway.

That might be a good measure for guys here. How far is the woman in your life from posting this on her social media:


vmodus is going to be hard to beat I think.

@centaurer thanks for sharing that article. About 20 years ago, I used to work for an entrepreneur and I asked him his key to a happy marriage: "Separate bank accounts". He also said, "having money helps".

My wife and I had a money fight once and only once, before we were married, and it was not what you would think. We had plenty of money, but it was a practical consideration of combining our finances to pay a mortgage, bills, etc., versus having our own money. We both grew up poor and are pretty confident in our ability to earn money doing something, anything. In our businesses, we both have to be comfortable with a financial move or we don't make that move. I think we work because our philosophies on money are pretty well aligned. And we may be the outliers.

My wife is probably closer to Tracy Alloway than any one else that I've known, aside from despising social media. She can totally geek out on charts, patterns, movements, technical analysis, etc. So I count myself lucky.

Maybe a way to think of a spouse's/significant others involvement in your trading/business it is this: if you want to dabble in my business, you better be ready to get your hands dirty.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #217 (permalink)
 MiguelCoast 
Lisbon Portugal
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 17 since Nov 2017
Thanks: 4 given, 49 received

Hi All,

I had a trading "disaster" about two years ago, you can read ir at the elite fórum discussion, but to sum up, I Gave away everything I made+original investiment. Looking back my falults were:
- too much to handle at same time: new baby, my business, family affairs
- too much of a gambling approach vs investiment

- trading without knowing what I was doing and literaly too much leverage

I invested All savings I had left on stocks ( Msft, fbook, tndm diabetes, etc) and made 5 Times the original investiment in roughly two years.

Basically I was trying too hard to BE a futures trazer instead of a slow boring stock investir without realising I am much more Talented in reading earnings reports that analysing the futures market on a short term ( which honestly for me seemed like trying to Guess the wind Direction).

All in all I feel we must stick with what que know/like and avoid costly adventures for the sake of our ego.
Sometimes I still Invest in the futures market but just 1 lot at a time without putting too much emotion on a trade. One trade every 3 days or so and thats it.
Last 2 years I am up only 14% and that reminds me of how volatile and hard this type of investment is for me.

Take care and whatever you do think about tour family and yourselves first before doing something stup.d.

Miguel
( Sorry for my English not a native speaker here)

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to MiguelCoast for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #218 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


MiguelCoast View Post
Hi All,

I had a trading "disaster" about two years ago, you can read ir at the elite fórum discussion, but to sum up, I Gave away everything I made+original investiment. Looking back my falults were:
- too much to handle at same time: new baby, my business, family affairs
- too much of a gambling approach vs investiment

- trading without knowing what I was doing and literaly too much leverage

I invested All savings I had left on stocks ( Msft, fbook, tndm diabetes, etc) and made 5 Times the original investiment in roughly two years.

Basically I was trying too hard to BE a futures trazer instead of a slow boring stock investir without realising I am much more Talented in reading earnings reports that analysing the futures market on a short term ( which honestly for me seemed like trying to Guess the wind Direction).

All in all I feel we must stick with what que know/like and avoid costly adventures for the sake of our ego.
Sometimes I still Invest in the futures market but just 1 lot at a time without putting too much emotion on a trade. One trade every 3 days or so and thats it.
Last 2 years I am up only 14% and that reminds me of how volatile and hard this type of investment is for me.

Take care and whatever you do think about tour family and yourselves first before doing something stup.d.

Miguel
( Sorry for my English not a native speaker here)

It is great that you are self-aware enough to know that you are better at stocks than futures. Get rich slowly.

~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #219 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,009 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given, 98,301 received

Speaking of kids, I found this infographic interesting as a way to teach kids the value of money.



It was in this article:
https://www.gobankingrates.com/banking/savings-account/best-savings-accounts-for-kids/

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #220 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


Big Mike View Post
Speaking of kids, I found this infographic interesting as a way to teach kids the value of money.



It was in this article:
https://www.gobankingrates.com/banking/savings-account/best-savings-accounts-for-kids/

Mike

Thanks Big Mike. I will share this with my people. I am happy to say that we already do most of this with our kids.

Have a great weekend and stay safe!

~vmodus

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #221 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,009 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given, 98,301 received

@iqgod,

In your recent journal post which I do not want to link out of fairness for the ongoing competition, you mentioned that:


iqgod
I'm happily married but my spouse does not like me trading at all.

In addition, @LastDino, I saw you posting along the same topic but you didn't say how it applies to you regarding your loved ones supporting your trading.

I wanted to make certain that both of you (and others) knew that this thread existed, because we've been talking about the critical importance of having support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading for many years here in this thread, and I welcome it's ongoing continuation because I hope that it will help people.

That said, @iqgod, can you elaborate on the relationship you have with your spouse over trading?

And @LastDino, care to comment on the same?

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #222 (permalink)
 iqgod 
Market Wizard
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ChartNexus
Trading: Stocks, Commodities, Futures
 
iqgod's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,802 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 3,650 given, 3,093 received

I wrote this poem sometime in the lockdown, and though my wife did not offer support for trading (and equated it to gambling), she was eventually to point the way to the golden middle that came to me as 'balance'. I wrote this poem for her, even though there is no direct support - sometimes 'no support' can actually mean tonnes of silent support by offering discipline instead of pandering to and spoiling an 'already spoilt child':


When I was
an incomplete person
From work I took a pause
To quickly earn a ransom

I took to trading
it seemed
a quick way of printing
Money in reams

I made a pile
Thousands by the hour
And my bile
Tasted my tongue, was sour

I did not mind
My deteriorating health
I was focused hook, sinker, and line
On wealth, wealth, wealth.

She warned me of a-change in Miss Market's style
Dangers of these easy riches without strife
And told me to look yonder
On this thing called life.

But, you know, as it always happens
I ignored her sage advice
But was disappearing, my confidence
And slowly lost most of my dimes.

I almost lost my mind
And though she wouldn't pet me
Her look was both stern and kind
And she gently stood beside me.

Many a time I ignored my duties
And spited her for working overtime...
But suddenly in her words, I could see beauty
Slowly but surely her words began to rhyme.

When I took it slowly
And focused on myself, my family for a while
I sensed how trading turned holy
And finally could take it in my stride.

Sometimes when your wisdom lights go out
Your spouse sometimes holds a candle
In the middle of your dark blackout
And it's a faint glimmer in a losing battle.

The light that shines
Illuminates
Deepest recesses of your mind
And liberates both you and your soulmate.


My humble attempt at poetry.


Thank My New Journal https://futures.io/trading-journals/56579-just-being-trader-letting-go.html
Please visit and thank individual posts if you feel they are / will be serving some purpose for someone! Remember: Gratitude begets gratitude!
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to iqgod for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #223 (permalink)
 LastDino 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradingView & ZerodhaKite
Trading: Crude, NIFTY, BANKNIFTY
 
LastDino's Avatar
 
Posts: 890 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 2,744 given, 2,579 received


Big Mike View Post
@iqgod,

In your recent journal post which I do not want to link out of fairness for the ongoing competition, you mentioned that:



In addition, @LastDino, I saw you posting along the same topic but you didn't say how it applies to you regarding your loved ones supporting your trading.

I wanted to make certain that both of you (and others) knew that this thread existed, because we've been talking about the critical importance of having support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading for many years here in this thread, and I welcome it's ongoing continuation because I hope that it will help people.

That said, @iqgod, can you elaborate on the relationship you have with your spouse over trading?

And @LastDino, care to comment on the same?

Mike

I'm not married yet, that will change on this 28th Feb, that was the reason for me asking about it.

Other than that my father is squarely opposed to me trading but we can have disagreements and still live since I do have other income sources. My rest of the family thinks I'm a wastrel and has no clue about what I do, even other than trading. So their opinions I don't really consider much.

Having said that, I feel things will be very different with the wife, and I've been trying to warm her up for that all this time. But still, you never know, time changes things

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to LastDino for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #224 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,009 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given, 98,301 received


LastDino View Post
I'm not married yet, that will change on this 28th Feb, that was the reason for me asking about it.

Other than that my father is squarely opposed to me trading but we can have disagreements and still live since I do have other income sources. My rest of the family thinks I'm a wastrel and has no clue about what I do, even other than trading. So their opinions I don't really consider much.

Having said that, I feel things will be very different with the wife, and I've been trying to warm her up for that all this time. But still, you never know, time changes things

Congrats on the engagement!

May I ask how old you are?

So when you saw "warm her up", just exactly how forthcoming have you been about your trading? Such as how much time you spend on it, how much money you've made or lost, and what it means to you either as a passion/hobby or profession?

If I could probe further, how long have you been living together for her to observe you and your trading, including your good and bad days?

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #225 (permalink)
 LastDino 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradingView & ZerodhaKite
Trading: Crude, NIFTY, BANKNIFTY
 
LastDino's Avatar
 
Posts: 890 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 2,744 given, 2,579 received


Big Mike View Post
Congrats on the engagement!

May I ask how old you are?

So when you saw "warm her up", just exactly how forthcoming have you been about your trading? Such as how much time you spend on it, how much money you've made or lost, and what it means to you either as a passion/hobby or profession?

If I could probe further, how long have you been living together for her to observe you and your trading, including your good and bad days?

Mike

32 This year.

I've shown her all my trading history, I've also made my businesses and passive income open to scrutiny to her family as well. Problem is second part of your question, will she be able to deal with my excessive screen time? As we have not lived together yet, in India if I tried to pull that off, it would be more of a problem than me trading

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to LastDino for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #226 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,009 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,469 given, 98,301 received


LastDino View Post
32 This year.

I've shown her all my trading history, I've also made my businesses and passive income open to scrutiny to her family as well. Problem is second part of your question, will she be able to deal with my excessive screen time? As we have not lived together yet, in India if I tried to pull that off, it would be more of a problem than me trading

Understood, and thanks for answering! I had forgot to look at your location before writing my message, so that is understandable of course.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #227 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


LastDino View Post
I'm not married yet, that will change on this 28th Feb, that was the reason for me asking about it.

Other than that my father is squarely opposed to me trading but we can have disagreements and still live since I do have other income sources. My rest of the family thinks I'm a wastrel and has no clue about what I do, even other than trading. So their opinions I don't really consider much.

Having said that, I feel things will be very different with the wife, and I've been trying to warm her up for that all this time. But still, you never know, time changes things

Congratulations on your engagement and upcoming marriage!

Your comment is loaded with meaning.... so here goes....

As long as you are making a good living and continuing to improve your skills to make that living, then I do not think other people's opinion matters too much. There is no single right way to make a living.

"Time changes things"....kids and a spouse change things even more. You may very well find your risk appetite changes, so don't be surprised when that happens.

I wish you and your future wife the best of luck and happiness in your new life together.

~vmodus

Enjoy everything!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #228 (permalink)
 LastDino 
Legendary Pratik_4Clover
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradingView & ZerodhaKite
Trading: Crude, NIFTY, BANKNIFTY
 
LastDino's Avatar
 
Posts: 890 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 2,744 given, 2,579 received


vmodus View Post
Congratulations on your engagement and upcoming marriage!

Your comment is loaded with meaning.... so here goes....

As long as you are making a good living and continuing to improve your skills to make that living, then I do not think other people's opinion matters too much. There is no single right way to make a living.

"Time changes things"....kids and a spouse change things even more. You may very well find your risk appetite changes, so don't be surprised when that happens.

I wish you and your future wife the best of luck and happiness in your new life together.

Thank you and yes, "fun money pool" will decrease so obviously how much I can lose before one of the kitchen utensils land on my head will also shrink - I jest

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to LastDino for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #229 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
Legendary Market Wizard
Ilsede, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Rithmic / CQG / Ninja Trader Brokerage
Trading: NQ
 
Daytrader999's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,377 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,538 given, 2,021 received


LastDino View Post
Thank you and yes, "fun money pool" will decrease so obviously how much I can lose before one of the kitchen utensils land on my head will also shrink - I jest

Hehe....well, seems like you already know what's coming up next my friend....

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Daytrader999 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #230 (permalink)
 IFeelLikeNeo   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 26 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 35 received

Such a long, great thread I hope no one has beaten me to it with the following;

Top trader and futures.io all-round-nice-guy Kevin K Dog (I think that's his handle?) taught me a great idea... "The Spouse Test."

It's simply this; your spouse/ partner shouldn't be able to tell from week to week, month to month, year to year if you're up or you're down.

If they can, then you're making the fatal (to your trading account!) mistake of being too emotionally involved in your trading.

It's incredibly hard to achieve (passing "The Spouse Test") but it's a superb goal that I aim for.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to IFeelLikeNeo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #231 (permalink)
 Arseno 
Ramstein, Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
Arseno's Avatar
 
Posts: 15 since Apr 2019
Thanks: 2 given, 12 received

It is difficult. I came to the realization that I'm on my own, and this is my challenge. Every time I would bring up trading to my parents/ extended family, they would change the subject.
I'm 40, have a baby daughter, and a career, but they make me feel like I'm a teenager.
I'm done trying to explain trading or what I love about the journey. It would be nice to have some support and interest from those close, but everyone's family dynamics are different.
My wife is not particularly interested, but she does let me do what I need to do, so that's good. She is not against it, and doesn't complain, so at least I have that going for me.
You know, actually it would be good just to talk to someone sometimes about the market, and maybe I haven't reached out enough to the resources here, without having to pay someone.
It's time I expand my trading network, thanks for pushing this out.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Arseno for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #232 (permalink)
CyclingFunds
Coachella Valley, CA USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 5 given, 12 received

Man, this thread/email couldn't have popped up at the perfect time. Just had an argument with the wife that she stems from my "emotional swings" since I started trading. My point to her was that the emotions would be there whether or not I was or was not doing this. They'd be just as "hot" if I had gone back to school and was trying to study with three kids at home at the same time. To be honest, she has not been home (she works part time) to see my breakdowns struggling through this. I keep those emotions private.

When I started this venture I wasn't working, furloughed, and am guided my father who is a skilled trader. He is on the other side of the country so it has all been done over the phone and setting up my metrics like his to see what he sees. Returning to work in August slowed my progress slightly but being on the West Coast I am able to login to my combines during premarket hours and log back in after work for some of the PM session.

Other than emotions she says that although I'm here I am "not here." That side is bull as I am the one that cooks dinner for the family and I sit down with them to eat. I also take breaks to go outside with the kids whey THEY are not on their electronic devices. It gives me the opportunities to step away.

While I am back to work, it isn't full time. I am in the hospitality industry and even with an important support role, things have been questionable. Will we stay open, will the state drop the hammer again? My industry growth that I was planning has officially been halted due to the pandemic. My question to her was "would you rather I got an evening minimum wage job?" This would keep me from being home at all and stop any extra fluff I might get from unemployment.

Major bills are paid, food is on the table and I am here. Things settled a bit and she may understand the why of why I'm doing this. We've all sacrificed a lot.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to CyclingFunds for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #233 (permalink)
 IFeelLikeNeo   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 26 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 35 received

On this topic too, I'm getting an enormous benefit from reading a classic book on this;

The Disciplined Trader: Developing Winning Attitudes

by Mark Douglas, that I started a week ago.

Worth every penny/cent so far. I've had a ton of "OH WOW YES" moments... and have already seen improvements in my mental state.

Also, I have had enormous benefit from reducing as much as possible my view of day to day and moment to moment price and P&L moves, instead focussing on the process.

Is it broken? If not, I can ignore the account balance.

How do I know it's broken? Monthly review of standard deviation, and drawdown vs max historic drawdown, plus making sure broker positions match what my systems expect them to.

I don't need to know if I'm up or down from day to day, or even week to week. That's distracting and harmful to my emotional state.

And I've learned from Douglas' book, that a damaged emotional state becomes a self-fulfilling path to ruin.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to IFeelLikeNeo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #234 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
Posts: 4,053 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 3,357 given, 8,004 received


IFeelLikeNeo View Post
Top trader and futures.io all-round-nice-guy Kevin K Dog (I think that's his handle?) taught me a great idea... "The Spouse Test."

@kevinkdog

IFeelLikeNeo View Post
It's simply this; your spouse/ partner shouldn't be able to tell from week to week, month to month, year to year if you're up or you're down.

Except when you tell them. Communication is key in any successful relationship, not just in trading.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #235 (permalink)
 IFeelLikeNeo   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 26 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 35 received

"Except when you tell them."

Yes! Thanks, good spot... totally!

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #236 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
Legendary Market Wizard
Ilsede, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Rithmic / CQG / Ninja Trader Brokerage
Trading: NQ
 
Daytrader999's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,377 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,538 given, 2,021 received


IFeelLikeNeo View Post
It's simply this; your spouse/ partner shouldn't be able to tell from week to week, month to month, year to year if you're up or you're down.

If they can, then you're making the fatal (to your trading account!) mistake of being too emotionally involved in your trading.

It's incredibly hard to achieve (passing "The Spouse Test") but it's a superb goal that I aim for.

Well....are you really married? If so, this relationship won't last very long....

And to be honest, I fully agree with @SMCJB that communication and honesty is essential in any kind of partnership. Otherwise you may end up lying to your spouse (e.g. in case of bigger losses and therefore failed vacations, etc.), which definitely won't turn your relationship to the good....

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Daytrader999 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #237 (permalink)
M4STR0
Florence
 
 
Posts: 18 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 12 given, 6 received

My Mum does not like this but she is starting to understand that what I am doing is serious business, my father initiated me to trading so he is supporting me a lot. One of my sisters does not like that I am into trading she does not think I can make it a profitable way of living.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to M4STR0 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #238 (permalink)
 Harveys 
brisbane queensland australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG
Trading: SPI 200futures
 
Posts: 4 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received

Great story and extremely important point to emphasize the importance of internal support to enable a trader to operate successfully in an extremely testing environment.I thank the writer for their article.regards Harveys

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #239 (permalink)
ursus
Sydney NSW Australia
 
 
Posts: 13 since Jun 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received


IFeelLikeNeo View Post

It's simply this; your spouse/ partner shouldn't be able to tell from week to week, month to month, year to year if you're up or you're down.

If they can, then you're making the fatal (to your trading account!) mistake of being too emotionally involved in your trading.

It's incredibly hard to achieve (passing "The Spouse Test") but it's a superb goal that I aim for.


Spot on. If you get too emotional your exposure is probably too big. If not trading may not be for you.

There is another level to it, the out of fashion old school "boys don't cry". Trading is simple: you take a view and enter a position. If you are right - enjoy and reap the benefits. If not - cut your losses and move on. Sure, there is a lot behind the process. But my wife has enough of her own problems to worry about, so I am not going to emotionally lean on her for my troubles in the market. Like for most other troubles. I reckon having one depressive in the family is better than two. You decide to get involved in the market, you make the trading decisions. It's your shit, own it.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #240 (permalink)
 brach 
Austin
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, SC, MT
Trading: NQ, ES, Micros
 
brach's Avatar
 
Posts: 78 since May 2018
Thanks: 159 given, 203 received


IFeelLikeNeo View Post
Such a long, great thread I hope no one has beaten me to it with the following;

Top trader and futures.io all-round-nice-guy Kevin K Dog (I think that's his handle?) taught me a great idea... "The Spouse Test."

It's simply this; your spouse/ partner shouldn't be able to tell from week to week, month to month, year to year if you're up or you're down.

If they can, then you're making the fatal (to your trading account!) mistake of being too emotionally involved in your trading.

It's incredibly hard to achieve (passing "The Spouse Test") but it's a superb goal that I aim for.

I haven't seen Kevin's commentary on that but I would guess that it was a comment about the trader's emotional reactions to success and failure, and not on the level of transparency with the trader's spouse. We'll be celebrating 32 years later this year and I can assure you that being transparent about activities of mutual concern has been key to our success.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to brach for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #241 (permalink)
 IFeelLikeNeo   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 26 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 35 received


brach View Post
I haven't seen Kevin's commentary on that but I would guess that it was ..... not on the level of transparency with the trader's spouse.

Oh, yes, 100%, that's assumed, but perhaps I could have explained better. Thanks!

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #242 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


CyclingFunds View Post
Man, this thread/email couldn't have popped up at the perfect time. Just had an argument with the wife that she stems from my "emotional swings" since I started trading. My point to her was that the emotions would be there whether or not I was or was not doing this. They'd be just as "hot" if I had gone back to school and was trying to study with three kids at home at the same time. To be honest, she has not been home (she works part time) to see my breakdowns struggling through this. I keep those emotions private.

Emotions caused by trading (elation, despair, etc.) can creep into your personal life, even if you are not conscious of it. We have two traders in my house... so imagine that. You have to learn to compartmentalize and set trading aside when you are not doing it. It can creep into your life and your family will feel it. Like @Big Mike stated at the very beginning of this thread.... you have to treat it like a business. COVID has changed the rules and life and work boundaries are blurred, but we have to have a short memory and leave the work at work.

I will relay a quote from Laurent Bernut that fits (paraphrased): "When good traders have a good trade, they feel great. When great traders have a good trade, they feel nothing." (source: Episode 177 Superior returns from superior risk management-Laurent Bernut - Better System Trader. He spoke of one of his worst and best trading days of his life, which happened to be back-to-back days. His wife said she couldn't tell he had good or bad days. I recommend listening or watching this episode on YouTube. You can skip the technical analysis if that doesn't interest you, but Laurent has some sage advice scattered throughout the video, plus it is pretty funny episode.

~vmodus

Enjoy everything!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #243 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,057 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,290 given, 2,204 received


Arseno View Post
You know, actually it would be good just to talk to someone sometimes about the market, and maybe I haven't reached out enough to the resources here, without having to pay someone.
It's time I expand my trading network, thanks for pushing this out.

@Arseno , that is why we are here. As I say to the newcomers here, you get out of FIO what you put in. Ask questions, start a journal, answer questions, join conversations. This is a diverse community of people of all stages in their trading journey.

~vmodus

Enjoy everything!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #244 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
Legendary Market Wizard
Ilsede, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Rithmic / CQG / Ninja Trader Brokerage
Trading: NQ
 
Daytrader999's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,377 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,538 given, 2,021 received


vmodus View Post
Emotions caused by trading (elation, despair, etc.) can creep into your personal life, even if you are not conscious of it. We have two traders in my house... so imagine that. You have to learn to compartmentalize and set trading aside when you are not doing it. It can creep into your life and your family will feel it. Like @Big Mike stated at the very beginning of this thread.... you have to treat it like a business. COVID has changed the rules and life and work boundaries are blurred, but we have to have a short memory and leave the work at work.

I will relay a quote from Laurent Bernut that fits (paraphrased): "When good traders have a good trade, they feel great. When great traders have a good trade, they feel nothing." (source: [url=http://bettersystemtrader.com/177-superior-returns-from-superior-risk-management-laurent-bernut/]Episode 177.

I fully subscribe to that!

And on the other hand, it seems like I'm still 'only' a good trader....so apparently I need to work on my further evolution and development.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Daytrader999 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #245 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


CyclingFunds View Post
Man, this thread/email couldn't have popped up at the perfect time. Just had an argument with the wife that she stems from my "emotional swings" since I started trading. My point to her was that the emotions would be there whether or not I was or was not doing this. They'd be just as "hot" if I had gone back to school and was trying to study with three kids at home at the same time. To be honest, she has not been home (she works part time) to see my breakdowns struggling through this. I keep those emotions private.

When I started this venture I wasn't working, furloughed, and am guided my father who is a skilled trader. He is on the other side of the country so it has all been done over the phone and setting up my metrics like his to see what he sees. Returning to work in August slowed my progress slightly but being on the West Coast I am able to login to my combines during premarket hours and log back in after work for some of the PM session.

Other than emotions she says that although I'm here I am "not here." That side is bull as I am the one that cooks dinner for the family and I sit down with them to eat. I also take breaks to go outside with the kids whey THEY are not on their electronic devices. It gives me the opportunities to step away.

While I am back to work, it isn't full time. I am in the hospitality industry and even with an important support role, things have been questionable. Will we stay open, will the state drop the hammer again? My industry growth that I was planning has officially been halted due to the pandemic. My question to her was "would you rather I got an evening minimum wage job?" This would keep me from being home at all and stop any extra fluff I might get from unemployment.

Major bills are paid, food is on the table and I am here. Things settled a bit and she may understand the why of why I'm doing this. We've all sacrificed a lot.

Howdy Brother!

You are living in a challenging situation. The economic state of workers in Ca. is very unsettling. Don't forget to BREATHE and as my 92 year old mother would say..... "Don't take things too seriously"!

Consider some of these thoughts presented here. You are probably my own adult childrens age.

The real reason we want to trade .... let's face it! It's because we want to be rewarded from our efforts in interacting with the market. We want that venue to be our money stream because we like the simplicity of working from home etc. etc.

The problem is that we want success NOW! Or at least SOON! Consistency takes a long time. Sure you can have those odd wins, but they usually are outnumbered by the losses.

So... here is my suggestion if you don't mind me sharing:

1. Keep your family life in order. You are blessed with a wife and children.
2. Just make money. You have to do it to keep your family safe and secure.
3. Purpose in your heart to be a life long student/trader.
4. Loosen your emotional belt and give yourself room to breathe.
5. Share with your wife your long range goal of being a trader.
6. Forget the notion that you will be a money making machine in the short term.
7. Plot a course and wait for your wife's emotions to grasp what you want. Don't brow beat her into understanding your desire. Just plot your course and with authority that you have as a man, husband and father, move in that direction tempered by the other points listed above.

I understand your frustration and emotions when it comes to trading. Those emotions are a result of our brains reacting to the fact that things did not go the way we really anticipated.

Make money the way you know how to and use the sim. for thousands and thousands of demo trades until you start to weed out all the poor habits that we seem to have as humans. This way you can really get to know yourself and get familiar with the market. If you are trading futures, pick just one. I only trade the Nasdaq 100. It's always moving and provides ample opportunities.

As time passes, you and your family will benefit from your diligence and vision. You never need feel apologetic for being a MAN! Men are trail blazers, explorers and even conquerors by nature. Self control will pay off if you apply it to your personal life and your trading life.

As a kid, I learned to play an instrument. Quit in high school and started back up when I was 18. I loved it. Before I became a soloist to play for 35 years as a weekend entertainer, I practiced countless hours before I ever made a dime! Trading is pretty much the same.

I hope that you find some encouragement in these comments. As my wife who also trades would say "Trading has help me rid my life of unwanted habits and emotional crap".

Best wishes to you!

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #246 (permalink)
CyclingFunds
Coachella Valley, CA USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 5 given, 12 received


vmodus View Post
Emotions caused by trading (elation, despair, etc.) can creep into your personal life, even if you are not conscious of it. We have two traders in my house... so imagine that. You have to learn to compartmentalize and set trading aside when you are not doing it. It can creep into your life and your family will feel it. Like @Big Mike stated at the very beginning of this thread.... you have to treat it like a business. COVID has changed the rules and life and work boundaries are blurred, but we have to have a short memory and leave the work at work.

I will relay a quote from Laurent Bernut that fits (paraphrased): "When good traders have a good trade, they feel great. When great traders have a good trade, they feel nothing." He spoke of one of his worst and best trading days of his life, which happened to be back-to-back days. His wife said she couldn't tell he had good or bad days. I recommend listening or watching this episode on YouTube. You can skip the technical analysis if that doesn't interest you, but Laurent has some sage advice scattered throughout the video, plus it is pretty funny episode.

Thank you. I will most definitely look at this video. I shared the OPs post with my wife to read to maybe get an idea of what I've already tried to explain. She is still pushing the thought of me "not being present" which I don't fully agree. I've spent a few years priors to getting into trading training for endurance events and that took up much more of my time and I see those as being more selfish as the gain is only for me. Maybe it helps motivate my children a tad.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to CyclingFunds for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #247 (permalink)
CyclingFunds
Coachella Valley, CA USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 5 given, 12 received


redbarntrades View Post
Howdy Brother!

You are living in a challenging situation. The economic state of workers in Ca. is very unsettling. Don't forget to BREATHE and as my 92 year old mother would say..... "Don't take things too seriously"!

Consider some of these thoughts presented here. You are probably my own adult childrens age.

The real reason we want to trade .... let's face it! It's because we want to be rewarded from our efforts in interacting with the market. We want that venue to be our money stream because we like the simplicity of working from home etc. etc.

The problem is that we want success NOW! Or at least SOON! Consistency takes a long time. Sure you can have those odd wins, but they usually are outnumbered by the losses.

So... here is my suggestion if you don't mind me sharing:

1. Keep your family life in order. You are blessed with a wife and children.
2. Just make money. You have to do it to keep your family safe and secure.
3. Purpose in your heart to be a life long student/trader.
4. Loosen your emotional belt and give yourself room to breathe.
5. Share with your wife your long range goal of being a trader.
6. Forget the notion that you will be a money making machine in the short term.
7. Plot a course and wait for your wife's emotions to grasp what you want. Don't brow beat her into understanding your desire. Just plot your course and with authority that you have as a man, husband and father, move in that direction tempered by the other points listed above.

I understand your frustration and emotions when it comes to trading. Those emotions are a result of our brains reacting to the fact that things did not go the way we really anticipated.

Make money the way you know how to and use the sim. for thousands and thousands of demo trades until you start to weed out all the poor habits that we seem to have as humans. This way you can really get to know yourself and get familiar with the market. If you are trading futures, pick just one. I only trade the Nasdaq 100. It's always moving and provides ample opportunities.

As time passes, you and your family will benefit from your diligence and vision. You never need feel apologetic for being a MAN! Men are trail blazers, explorers and even conquerors by nature. Self control will pay off if you apply it to your personal life and your trading life.

As a kid, I learned to play an instrument. Quit in high school and started back up when I was 18. I loved it. Before I became a soloist to play for 35 years as a weekend entertainer, I practiced countless hours before I ever made a dime! Trading is pretty much the same.

I hope that you find some encouragement in these comments. As my wife who also trades would say "Trading has help me rid my life of unwanted habits and emotional crap".

Best wishes to you!

I guess the hardest part is maybe my wife's understanding, or lack, of what I'm doing. I find it difficult to try and explain, doesn't help that I am fairly new at this, what we are doing in trading. It's nothing tangible. She see's graphs and numbers flashing Green and Red. I like to believe I have a good grasp on my metrics and techniques. And like you mention, finding that self control, loosing the emotional belt will benefit ten fold.

On a side note, I was able to breathe easy and essentially passed my combine today. Just two more "official" trading days to throw in a quick one or two micro trades and I can move on to potentially bringing in revenue.

Cheers all and thank you!

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to CyclingFunds for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #248 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Trading Technologies
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
 
Posts: 4,053 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 3,357 given, 8,004 received


CyclingFunds View Post
It's nothing tangible. She see's graphs and numbers flashing Green and Red
...
On a side note, I was able to breathe easy and essentially passed my combine today

Isn't passing the combine something tangible?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #249 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


CyclingFunds View Post
I guess the hardest part is maybe my wife's understanding, or lack, of what I'm doing. I find it difficult to try and explain, doesn't help that I am fairly new at this, what we are doing in trading. It's nothing tangible. She see's graphs and numbers flashing Green and Red. I like to believe I have a good grasp on my metrics and techniques. And like you mention, finding that self control, loosing the emotional belt will benefit ten fold.

On a side note, I was able to breathe easy and essentially passed my combine today. Just two more "official" trading days to throw in a quick one or two micro trades and I can move on to potentially bringing in revenue.

Cheers all and thank you!

Hey that's great! Progress!

Maybe you can set your wife up with her own sim acct. Have her use one 2-5 minute chart or??? Show her one strategy such as Oliver Velez's "Elephant Bar" trade set up. He has 6 simple videos on it. Just a simple breakout strategy with a defined stop just below the long breakout candle. Nothing complex.

She might get hooked or at least start to see what's possible.

Success to you!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #250 (permalink)
CyclingFunds
Coachella Valley, CA USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jan 2021
Thanks: 5 given, 12 received


SMCJB View Post
Isn't passing the combine something tangible?

To us it is, yes. But I would say from the outside it isn't. What I mean is, she doesn't understand the basics of the markets. It's not like me going out, buying something for cheap and selling it to someone else for a profit. She isn't seeing an asset in hand.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to CyclingFunds for this post:


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Support from wife/kids/loved ones in your trading


Last Updated on February 27, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts