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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)


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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)

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 George 
Sweden
 
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Al right guys itís time to sum it all up and go for the solutions to all this. Before I go on, please keep something in mind.
Thereís only one, and only one way to get disappointed in this life. And thatís when ones expectations arenít met.
Remember that talk about the Holy Grail and where it is?
You got it, it is right there, on the inside. Stop looking for it outside. The only thing is that, we have to uncover it first.


Have you ever wondered why, affirmations, confirmations, positive self talk, positive visualization, you name it, never works?
The market is full of all these techniques. Learn how to be positive, learn how to have discipline, learn how to be successful etc.etc.


Itís not working because of the program in our subconscious mind. If the program is negative, it doesnít matter how hard
you try to change it with your conscious mind. It wonít be persistent. Remember what you had in your conscious mind, the ďwill powerĒ?
And remember that it was temporary? Now you understand why it doesnít work. In order to change a habit one has to be persistent
for a period of at least 14 days. The only problem is that itís very difficult to follow a new habit, during such a long period because
youíre using your will power in that case. Plus that youíre going against yourself constantly. Youíre forcing yourself to go
against your program thatís running between 95-99% of your daily life with a conscious will power thatís temporary. Isnít life ironic?

But nevertheless, when you do understand this, youíve gained a huge awareness. For the first time youíll be able to look at yourself
from the outside. Youíve gained self distance. You start to understand why and how things work. That gives you a tremendous advantage.
And that is in case you want to change of course! If youíre content with your new findings, and you want to continue as a slave of your own program
and habits, then go on and live life as you did before. But if you want to make a change, then you have to get to the core.

In the last article I gave an example that explained how fear of success works. Normally it works like this.
An event that causes an emotion takes place, for i.e. whatever causes you to have that fear, or whatever causes you to engage the protective role of
your subconscious mind. Simultaneously two more things occur. The energy in that event is stored in your body and an association
is created in your brain. All this takes place in order to reward one thing, survival.

Since that event took place, and during every second of your life from back then till your present moment. Youíve had that process
(and all other processes, since their commencement) running constantly in the background.


In order to get rid of fear of success (or whatever change you need to make) you have to neutralize that stored energy. How in the whole world, will that be possible?
Time travel? Sorry guys, trying to be funny. Not working, right?

There are actually three ways that are working, and that I know of because Iíve been all over the place searching. You know, the usual stuff,
standing in front of the mirror, talking to myself ďyou are the worldís greatest trader; you can do this, bla, bla, blaÖ) Watching movies, like
ďThe SecretĒ, and feeling that itís speaking to me directly (by the way, great movie, I liked it, the only problem is that itís only giving you half of the equation).
Affirmations, visualization you name it. Itís not my point to criticize those techniques, itís just that it makes me mad, because theyíre hiding the other
part of the reality. Itís not possible to overlap a bad program. You have to get rid of the program first.

So here are the three techniques that work. All three helps you to get rid of the bad program in order to be able to put there whatever you wish, in order to
give you emotional freedom. Iíll explain shortly how they work and why they work.


1.EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique, EFT Home - World Center for EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques))

Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT) is an emotional, needle free version of acupuncture that is based on new discoveries
regarding the connection between your body's subtle energies, your emotions, and your health. EFT has been reported successful
in thousands of cases covering a huge range of emotional, health and performance issues.
Itís actually pretty easy to learn and to perform. Itís about putting your focus on an issue thatís bothering you and while you do
that tap on different spots on your face, upper body, arms and fingers. If you want details, youíll find them on their page,
specifically how and why it works.
Itís a great technique, if you can nail the issue. In other words, if youíre very aware of the event, that caused you problem,
or if you are persistent, youíll get great results. If the issue is more bothersome and hidden (my own experience tells me that, itís
better to seek a practitioner or to use the next method). But remember thatís my opinion, if you find the technique to be working
for you and it fits you, it can do wonderful things for you.



2.Hypnosis (Iíve studied hypnosis for this guy Ėa home study course-, and heís a living legend, -Gerald Kein
Omni Hypnosis Training - Onsite or Distance Learning Clinical Hypnotism Training
)

Usually, people are very judgmental about hypnosis, and their associationís runs directly to those stage hypnosis shows, or to mind control. Forget all of that.
Itís one of the most powerful ways to change your program. Iím not going to spend time defending it, and give you valid facts about it.
Instead, Iím going to tell you how it works, and tell you that it only work if you allow it to work. You can never, ever become hypnotized against your own will.

It actually works very simple. First we have the induction. Thatís a process that takes away your critical factor. In other words, it deactivates your
conscious mind, and youíll get access directly to your subconscious mind. When you are there, (itís actually like sending heat seeking missiles) you go
back to the event that caused the problem for the first time, and you neutralize it. By neutralizing the event, the energy dissolves and you are free.

So basically, hypnosis consists of two main parts, the induction and the hypnotic therapy session. During the induction, the subject is asked to relax. Itís being
constantly talked to by the hypnotist and led into a state of focused relaxation. The induction serves in order to send away the conscious mind
(the analytical and the rational mind), in order to get access to the subconscious mind, where everything is stored and still active. When you get there, then
youíre able to relive the event. By doing that youíre able to process it and to release it.

By reading my own words, Iím getting the impression of this might be a difficult process to grasp and to understand. If you by any chance are trying to
understand this method, it means that you have second thoughts about it and youíll be taking it to a very analytical and rational level. It simply wonít work then!

My recommendations are; if youíve come to an edge in your life, and youíve become aware of that impulse running in the background and sabotaging you on a
constant basis, AND youíre willing to get to the edge and jump no matter what. Then hypnosis will work for you!
Hypnosis can clear things in a couple of sessions (2-4, each being about 1,5h) that has bothered people for an entire life. It takes 4 sessions to free someone from alcoholism,
(you get the picture? it takes away the reason for it being practised, AA teaches people the discipline to keep themselves away from it instead. Unfortunately people are sceptical
about it and spend rather 20 years in classical psychotherapy instead of freeing themselves in a couple of sessions.

Remember, hypnosis is very, very powerful if you allow yourself to take that step. If you by any chance decide to try it out, please use that link, in order to
link yourself to someone recommended by Gerald Kein. Maybe you can call them and ask them for someone certified by them in your area.
There are a lot of bad hypnotherapists out there, so be sure to end up with a good one.


3.The Sedona Method (This is my favorite one, and Iím in the middle of learning it right now
Sedona Method (official site) The Secret self-help program; self-improvement technique
)

Itís a wonderful tool. Itís about letting go of things. Itís about releasing issues. Itís about becoming free. Basically, itís a very, very simple technique that teaches
you how to connect yourself to your feelings and how to free yourself from them. Remember the subconscious mind is the feeling mind. So youíre right on the spot again here,
because itís about reprogramming and uncovering.
The beauty of the Sedona Method is that, is very portable. You can put it in your mind, by learning it,
and you can use it whenever you need. You donít have to tap on spots, you donít need a hypnotherapist, and you can just bring it up in any situation needed. Plus that you can
benefit a lot from it in trading as well, by releasing all those negative emotions that you end up with from bad trades.



Basically all of them are very powerful tools. EFT, can very easily neutralize all those bad trades, you have behind you, by tapping on those spots.
Hypnosis can free you from all the junk, which prevents you from having the right perception and perspective while youíre trading. And the Sedona Method can help you
get rid of the stress thatís out there while youíre trading.


Some people collect stamps, some like to jog, and so on. Me myself, have been obsessed by these two words, ďwhyĒ and ďhowĒ. Since I got tired of losing and blowing
up my portfolios, and since that old friend of mine inflated his ego on my behalf. By the way, let us all send him a big Thank You! If it wasnít for him and him initiating me into
this business, I guess we wouldnít have met. So Thank You Ovidiu Ėhis name-!


By asking those two questions, why things work the way they work, and how do things work; Iíve come to gain all this knowledge that Iím sharing with you!
As you see, it has not so much to do with trading. In fact trading has not that much to do with anything. Trading is just trading, nothing else. It has all to do with you,
and the way you look at trading. In order to be able to look at trading, you have to get rid of all the filters that are holding you back from looking at trading the way you should be looking at it.

Iíve gained all this by asking why and how. What Iíve come to understand to this point is that ironically enough I have to learn how to let go of all this and get past all the
rational and analytical stuff because thatís where weíll be finding our own Holy Grail.


Iíve been through them all. I mean the methods and Iíve been wondering on those paths that took me here. What Iíve written and shared with you has been my reflections coloured
by my own journeys. Remember that every journey is unique, and has to be performed by the persons involved in them. Take my words, and this knowledge shared as guidance,
and go out there and make your own journey and find out what works for you!


Good luck and have a lot of fun, lifeís supposed to be fun to live!


THE END!


/George



Postum Script 4 years later:

I would like to add a fourth solution to the previous 3 ones. I know that if you read my posts below and the comments on the 3 solutions mentioned above, the Sedona Method will stand out. And yes it is a great tool still, but eventually
it only provided me with temporary solutions. That's why I am adding this fourth one!


The method is called the Emotion Code and it is based upon the same premises as everything else. It is based upon the fact that our experiences and our
interaction with the local environment leaves traces and has an impact on us. The result of that are these so called trapped emotions.
What are trapped emotions? Trapped emotions are trails of feelings we experience in negative situations that are left in our system and are triggered as soon as our mind
identifies a situation that reminds us of that particular event.


For instance, have you ever asked yourself what happens to you when you always give back all that money youíve made so fast and so easy? What really happens is that
your subconscious mind corrects the issue by helping you giving it back to the market. It simply corrects your particular situation
in order to match its programmed belief. Letís put it this way in order to throw further light on it. Assume that your father told you when you were a child that money are
to be earned the hard way. Here we have to add that children are very adept to be seeking confirmation from our guides and teachers
because they are the ones that holds the key to our interaction with the local environment in which we strive to become a part of. So together with that statement from the
father comes a need of being confirmed. If we trust and believe that statement we are good kids, and good kids
that behave according to what their parents says get love as a reward.

Is the picture complete now? You make money fast and easy, but that also triggers the emotion connected to that. We all need that confirmation because itís a part of
our designed societal needs and fast money is simply not a match for you (because in your subconscious mind
you still need that confirmation that will get you the reward in terms of affection) hence you give them back! Thatís where the Emotion Code enters into the picture.
It has a built in method that enables it to get feedback from the subconscious mind
making us able to aim for those feelings that are trapped and release them. When theyíve become released that need for confirmation/affection and we get to keep our money
because the subconscious mind is not active in that sense anymore and will not ďwork against usĒ.


Now, will the Emotion Code make us better traders? Yes and no! It is very important to emphasize that trading in itself has very much to do with mastering all the bits
and pieces in the whole trading package, from administration of your trades to your risk management etc. But one thing is for sure, it will
do wonders on the emotional part that is a huge part of trading. With a mastery of everything else in trading that can serve as the dot over the I in many instances.
But please do remember this, all the other puzzle pieces has to be mastered in order to make it all the way in trading.
If we are not doing that it is as if we put an athlete through a form of mind programming but we expect him/her to win without the proper training, systematic approach to wining,
diet, the proper mindset etc. etc. That is impossible right? So keep that in mind please!



What has the Emotion Code done for me? First and foremost it has had a huge impact on my mood. I have let go of an enormous deal of frustration and I have become
a very calm and patient person. It is like I have a sort of built in breaks now that are getting activated as soon as I get frustrated.
Even if I get mad (after all I am human being), my path to calmness has become greatly shortened. And it is not as if I get frustrated and then the thought
comes in telling me I am changed. No, it comes automatically, and it is due to the fact that those emotions
that were triggering that part of my brain/mind are released. My family is the biggest witness to these changes, and theyíre the ones that can truly testify to that because
theyíre the ones that are noticing the change mostly. For me things have become normal this way!

Iíve also got rid of this pollen allergy that has been bothering me for about 15 years. And that wasnít even on my list of things that I wanted to work with. You see, thoughts and
feelings are energy and energy gets stored into our organs. When you free the body from those negative emotions you actually free the organs from that stored energy,
therefore theyíre allowed to regenerate themselves in the proper way leading to recovery.

Oh, Iíve been through a couple of things/methods through the years, among other those 3 Iíve suggested before. The impact from those were temporary and not lasting
at least in my case. I started this work back in April and the changes are still here today, so I can testify to the part where the changes are there to stay!
Iím throwing this out there with myself exposed primarily because I owe it to this community constructed by Big Mike which intentions are to be continually applauded and second
it truly is something that has helped me a lot and I want to share it with my fellow traders that also can benefit from it.


There are a lot of practitioners out there. There might be one in your area or not. Sessions can be done either in person or by phone/Skype. I live in Sweden and I had sessions
over Skype in USA. When I decided to take the step and to employ a practitioner I started by comparing them all in terms
of experience and the value you get for your money. After choosing a couple of them I sent out emails to see what kind of response Iíd get. Some of them contacted me days later,
some didnít contact me at all etc. etc. Iím not gone get into particular reasons of why that happened and so on.
But there was this lady that contacted me very shortly after Iíve sent the emails telling me that she wasnít able to answer my questions right away, but that she wanted to
work with me and that sheíll contact me as soon as sheís able to. And so she did not long after that.


What really made me chose her was that she showed me from the beginning that she cared. Together with that she offered (and still does) most value for the money!
The rest is history and the changes are as Iíve told you above.
Her name is Jill Jolley and she lives in Arizona In case anyone wants to contact her. Here is a link to her web page: LIGHTBORN SERVICES - Home You can always refer to me (@George)
or to (Big Mike trading) in order to show that you have a traderís background.

PS: Here comes a link to an interview with Dr. Bradley Nelson : the founder of the method. It starts at about 0:04:00. Enjoy!

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 wh 
Neubrandenburg, Germany
 
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thanx for sedona, sounds good.

wh

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 RJay 
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Hi George,

Thank you for your postings.

I use both "The Secret" and EFT to pursue my goals.

I couldn't agree more with their potential to change your life.

If anyone is interested, The EFT "Palace of Possibilities" DVD set is nice.

Otherwise, Buy only the newer DVD sets. EFT is constantly evolving.

Some older techniques are no longer used.

"The Secret" DVD can be purchased used online for a couple bucks at the usual places. Amazon, Half, ect.

RJay

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 George 
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RJay, WH,
You're welcome, I',m glad you liked it!

Now, to the rest of you guys out there that's taking the time to read this topic. Please, give something back! I would like to ask you to start sharing your own reflections, perspectives, about where you're standing, or in case you've chosen to follow any of these methods, where it took you!

If we start by sharing our experiences and thoughts, then we can manage to narrow this process close enough in order to make it more (let's say) normal, ordinary, daily!

You guys understand the point I'm trying to make here?
If enough people share their experiences (and please do understand that, every single thought expressed is important, failure is as important as success) then we'll manage to make this mind thing and how it works more familiar then it seems right now!

So please do it in order to honor Mike, and this huge work he's been doing in order to help people out with one of the most qualitative forums that's out there!

/George

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 yiman 
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Hi George I found your articles very informative and reading and this is something i have been thinking about for some time.

I believe we are being programmed all the time. for example are we watching programs on TV or are we being programmed by The TV. Take care all you TV lovers.

What about all those newspapers out there, All that negative stuff being published is doing nothing but programming us to become negative.


Apart from the 3 techniques you mention I have found meditation to be a very effective way of removing negative thoughts. before going to sleep i will meditate for about 15 -20 mins to clear the day and concentrate on something positive. That way i will not be thinking about all the issues I had during the day. I do the seme thing when I get up and before trading.

I just thought I would mention this as It helps me. For anyone interested in learning about meditation the following website is very good. I hope its ok to post it here .
Brahma Kumaris Official Website - Homepage

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 wh 
Neubrandenburg, Germany
 
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George,

Years ago I attended a seminar. I learned a simple technique to know.

1. Reserve yourself a whole day. Only you, no kids, no wife, no pets, no drugs and so on.

2. Start with the exercise early in the morning.

3. Look in the mirror.

4. And say: I can do this. I am a Trader. I can earn 20 pips. I am good.

5. Be kind to your self .

6. Per session doing 10 to 20 repetitions.

7. Repeat it every hour throughout the day.

8. finish the day, if you believe it.

The secret lies so deep within us that we must struggle to find it.

My Problem on Monday i am a little bit choppy in my brain.

WH

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 wh 
Neubrandenburg, Germany
 
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It was not a trading seminar. It was a sales seminar for mobile communication products. But i will do this.

And tell you

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Maletor
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How about Holosync?

Those meditation CDs are powerful and Bill Harris and The Sedona Method are good friends. They basically do the same thing, but the mediation CDs work only on the sub-conscience level.

They are very helpful, and very, very, very powerful.
The change it elicits is emotionally moving. Many problems we are not even consciously aware of are being dealt with and the content happiness that arises is unparalleled.

The only way to try to describe it, because you can't really do it with words, is that it makes change easy.

There is certainly a time commitment for it though, but it is worth every minute.

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 wh 
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I'm not a spiritual man.

"Are you ready, really to be happy? Are you willing to make everything in life to achieve what you always wanted? Are you willing to find what your heart has always wanted?"

Nice intro of Sedona Method ... On this i am a oldschool type. I read the book.

WH

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 Luis_PT 
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I was looking for a method like this, but there are also a lot of a crap out there.

I also found this.
Subconscious Training Corporation

Does someone has any insights on that?


Luis

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 George 
Sweden
 
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wh View Post
George,

Years ago I attended a seminar. I learned a simple technique to know.

1. Reserve yourself a whole day. Only you, no kids, no wife, no pets, no drugs and so on.

2. Start with the exercise early in the morning.

3. Look in the mirror.

4. And say: I can do this. I am a Trader. I can earn 20 pips. I am good.

5. Be kind to your self .

6. Per session doing 10 to 20 repetitions.

7. Repeat it every hour throughout the day.

8. finish the day, if you believe it.

The secret lies so deep within us that we must struggle to find it.

My Problem on Monday i am a little bit choppy in my brain.

WH


WH,

If you really believe that you can stick to doing every one of these things, and if you really believe that you need them. Then do them every day for at least 21 days and you'll get yourself the benefits from them.

That's what it takes to adopt a new habit. "Repetition is the mother of all skills". If we constantly repeat a habit for about 21 days, then we get it in our subconscious mind and it's working for us automatically.
But remember this one thing, you have to be true to yourself. You have to like what you're forcing yourself to be doing, otherwise all you get is a living hell during 21 days, plus that you've got yourself an automatic conflict!


Good Luck if you decide to do it!
/George

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 George 
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Maletor View Post
How about Holosync?

Those meditation CDs are powerful and Bill Harris and The Sedona Method are good friends. They basically do the same thing, but the mediation CDs work only on the sub-conscience level.

They are very helpful, and very, very, very powerful.
The change it elicits is emotionally moving. Many problems we are not even consciously aware of are being dealt with and the content happiness that arises is unparalleled.

The only way to try to describe it, because you can't really do it with words, is that it makes change easy.

There is certainly a time commitment for it though, but it is worth every minute.


Maletor,

I've tried Holosync, but I didn't really got the desired results. Holosync is based on certain sound frequencies that your brain interprets on the subconscious level. It's a kind of subliminal frequency that will get you to change your subconscious program by listening to those sounds.



I believe that the power of intention and the power of the mind is big enough in order to make what you wish for, or what you don't wish for to work!


"Unfortunately there are no shortcuts till you get to the shortcuts".
/George

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 wh 
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WH,

If you really believe that you can stick to doing every one of these things, and if you really believe that you need them. Then do them every day for at least 21 days and you'll get yourself the benefits from them.

That's what it takes to adopt a new habit. "Repetition is the mother of all skills". If we constantly repeat a habit for about 21 days, then we get it in our subconscious mind and it's working for us automatically.
But remember this one thing, you have to be true to yourself. You have to like what you're forcing yourself to be doing, otherwise all you get is a living hell during 21 days, plus that you've got yourself an automatic conflict!


Good Luck if you decide to do it!
/George

george thanx you for your reply. I'm a little confused at the moment. to much input for my brain and new land.

I think that I practice the Sedona Method. have the book and read it now. then i will lock.

why 21 days??

wh

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 George 
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wh View Post
george thanx you for your reply. I'm a little confused at the moment. to much input for my brain and new land.

I think that I practice the Sedona Method. have the book and read it now. then i will lock.

why 21 days??

wh


WH,

Good choice, Sedona is great!

Why 21 days?

They made an experiment back in the 60's. A group of people were asked to wear a couple of special made glasses that turned everything upside down when looking through them. They were asked to use them on a constant basis during four weeks.

After three weeks, the brain made the shift. Everything was turned upside down again. When they were asked to take of their glasses, everything -again- was turned upside down.

That's how they came to the conclusion that it takes about 21 days to adopt a new habit and have it implemented into your system.

/George

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 deltason 
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Hi George I found your articles very informative and reading and this is something i have been thinking about for some time.

I believe we are being programmed all the time. for example are we watching programs on TV or are we being programmed by The TV. Take care all you TV lovers.

What about all those newspapers out there, All that negative stuff being published is doing nothing but programming us to become negative.


Apart from the 3 techniques you mention I have found meditation to be a very effective way of removing negative thoughts. before going to sleep i will meditate for about 15 -20 mins to clear the day and concentrate on something positive. That way i will not be thinking about all the issues I had during the day. I do the seme thing when I get up and before trading.

I just thought I would mention this as It helps me. For anyone interested in learning about meditation the following website is very good. I hope its ok to post it here .
Brahma Kumaris Official Website - Homepage

yiman, thanks for the reference. i've been looking into meditation and read The Relaxation Response not long ago and recommend it.

and thanks George. for a long time i thought that affirmations would work and they do work temporarily for me but then i end up not saying them consistenly and subsequently fall right back into my old patterns. my status as "Master Trader" falls into the affirmation category. anyway, it's great to know why certain things have happened. i have a copy of the Sedona Method and will keep you posted on my progress.

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Thank you for the IV part series and sharing your journey, very informative information that can be used in all areas of life. I also believe a change in diet can also be helpful when one is trying to make changes to "de-program"
Thanks again.

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yiman, thanks for the reference. i've been looking into meditation and read The Relaxation Response not long ago and recommend it.

and thanks George. for a long time i thought that affirmations would work and they do work temporarily for me but then i end up not saying them consistenly and subsequently fall right back into my old patterns. my status as "Master Trader" falls into the affirmation category. anyway, it's great to know why certain things have happened. i have a copy of the Sedona Method and will keep you posted on my progress.


Deltason,


I'm glad I could throw a light on the subject for you! And sure, it would be great to hear about your progress. Keep me posted.

Be well

/George

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 George 
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Thank you for the IV part series and sharing your journey, very informative information that can be used in all areas of life. I also believe a change in diet can also be helpful when one is trying to make changes to "de-program"
Thanks again.


BAP,

You're most welcome. You're right about the body mind connection. A healthy body helps one to see things more clear. So taking care of ones vehicle is very important as well!

/George

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 DiemTrader 
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George,

How is Sedona going? Coincidentally I started the book recently. It's pretty good but I think it's building up to taking the seminar or home study course. Are you doing the home study course?

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 George 
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George,

How is Sedona going? Coincidentally I started the book recently. It's pretty good but I think it's building up to taking the seminar or home study course. Are you doing the home study course?


Diem,

Sedona is awesome. It's by far the best tool I've ever used that truly speaks to me.

Yes I'm using the home study course and I highly recommend it. Do yourself this favour and have this course. Get the home study course, the book is not enough.

Good Luck

/George

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 DiemTrader 
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Thanks George! I will give it a look.

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kc8flq
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Hi everyone, this might not be the right thread for intro's but I had a link that went along with Psychology/Mind that I thought would be useful for some.

DailyOM - Body Mind Mastery by Dan Millman

Psychology is such a big thing in trading, if your mind aint right, nothing is!
Found that out the hard way and am trying to right myself since finding out about it.

Happy Pippin' All
KC

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 goldilocks 
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I feel kinda silly about my post in most Highly Recommended Books last weekend w/o having read this thread... I appreciate the comments here a great deal.

As a yoga instructor, I had the understanding of 2 brains (not that it matters really): primitive (reptilian - fight or flight) and the more advanced brain (non reactive).

My experience in yoga was initially (since I was so used to reacting vs feeling uncomfortable or painful feelings) that I preferred the very active yoga-- keep moving all the time was better for me (so I could avoid what was coming up for me).

Then, over time, I learned how to relax into being really uncomfortable (still not my favorite experience.) And, this is where/when I could choose new responses to my practice and outside of class, to people, life, etc.

It is said that yoga helps build the new brain- neocortex - and if one learns to really slow the breath and hold an uncomfortable posture and hang with it, that one really can increase the size and use this (non reactive/choose a response vs. the habitual kicking in) side of the brain more often.

I have been very interested in the mind/body connection, too. My experience is that the muscles/body hold memories/emotions... in fact, there is work (Upleddger: craniosacral therapy) where they took Vietnam Vets who had post traumatic stress syndrome and found that the body had contracted into a certain holding pattern and upon releasing the musculature, that the emotional release had to then be addressed. The body was holding in what was too painful to handle w/o assistance. So, teams have been set up at some forts (Ft. Benning, I think is one), where a massage therapist and a psychiatrist/psycholgist (preferably one with combat exp) helps guide the person thru...

I also see this in my yoga classes where a person holding a particular posture starts crying in class... their body has relaxed and released enough that they are having to deal with the emotional part that was "stuck" in the muscles, etc.

That said, I want to look at the Sedona Method. Have tried some of the other techniques mentioned by George and others.. But in terms of my trading, I clearly still need something. smile

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 George 
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Goldilocks,

I see you have good understanding of how things on this level works. I've been searching during the last 8-9 years of my life. I'm happy I've found sedona because I feel that the search for a tool that works is over. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that one's work is over only because one has found the ultimate tool. Just like in trading, mind is the biggest challenge to face and to conquer (one's own mind). But I believe that, if you have the passion to clean yourself, then this method is one of the most elegant on the planet.

Good Luck!

/George

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 wh 
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i agree with you george. it works also for me (the sedona method) and is so simple.
thanx for bring in my brain. now i understand my mistakes better and why i did.
i like the general cleaning, but i like also the advantages and disadvantages.

i release to money, trading, rules, lust and fear (my hopes, dreams and goals).

i cleaned myself to lose money and to break rules. I release every morning before i trade and after each trade.



sedona is the way for better trading.

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.
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 George 
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wh View Post
i agree with you george. it works also for me (the sedona method) and is so simple.
thanx for bring in my brain. now i understand my mistakes better and why i did.
i like the general cleaning, but i like also the advantages and disadvantages.

i release to money, trading, rules, lust and fear (my hopes, dreams and goals).

i cleaned myself to lose money and to break rules. I release every morning before i trade and after each trade.



sedona is the way for better trading.


wh,

You're most welcome! It's wonderful to hear that it works for you!

/George

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Diem,

Sedona is awesome. It's by far the best tool I've ever used that truly speaks to me.

Yes I'm using the home study course and I highly recommend it. Do yourself this favour and have this course. Get the home study course, the book is not enough.

Good Luck

/George

George,
Well, I got the book, not the home study course. Didn't see this post prior.. anyway, I plan to read the book thru the holidays and will keep track of WH's thread, too.

thanks!

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Al right guys itís time to sum it all up and go for the solutions to all this.
Itís not working because of the program in our subconscious mind. If the program is negative, it doesnít matter how hard you try to change it with your conscious mind.

In order to get rid of fear of success (or whatever change you need to make) you have to neutralize that stored energy.

Hi George,
I found someone and plan to try the hypnosis. I recall somewhere else on the site that you said it was important to have a neutral emotion whether losing or winning in using one's imagination to visualize a trading day in the markets.

Is this the primary thing I should request of the practitioner: to help me achieve a neutral state of mind about the above, success, etc.?

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

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Hi George,
I found someone and plan to try the hypnosis. I recall somewhere else on the site that you said it was important to have a neutral emotion whether losing or winning in using one's imagination to visualize a trading day in the markets.

Is this the primary thing I should request of the practitioner: to help me achieve a neutral state of mind about the above, success, etc.?

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Goldilocks,

I'm glad you asked these questions. I'll do my best in order to explain and paint out a road map for you!

First and foremost. You should know that there are two schools of hypnosis.
Miltonian hypnosis and Omni Hypnosis.


I would recommend you Omni Hypnosis, simply because it's a much better tool with greater effect and results then the Miltonian.

Now in order to get it right. Contact these guys (Gerald Kein is the founder of this one) at : Omni Hypnosis Training - Onsite or Distance Learning Clinical Hypnotism Training

and ask for someone in your area.

You should also know that hypnosis, is not working on someone who's not believing it to be working. It's been said that hypnosis works on everybody and that the hypnotist can hypnotize you and make you whatever he/she wants you to be doing. That's a myth and a lie.
It only works on someone that truly wants to believe in it, and is willing to let go of things in order to get themselves new programs.

Now, about your question whether you should ask the hypnotist to give you a program in order to have you neutralized.

Again, a bit on how hypnosis works. It's working as a wonderful tool for programing the mind, and it works as a therapeutic tool in order to get rid of junk that's stuck in the mind. IF you go to a hypnotist, and ask him/her to give your subconscious mind suggestions in order to get yourself neutralized, it will work 100% unless there's no junk in your subconscious mind that could be overlapping that.

You see my point?! For i.e. if you have issues with money, and that lies as junk in your subconscious mind, for different reasons. Then the suggestions part (programing) is not going to make a 100% improvement, unless the issues is solved first.

You have to understand that the issue is there for a logical reason, and has the function of protecting you. The moment the issue is penetrated, and the emotional charge is penetrated, then it let's you off it's hook, and the issue is gone. That's the part (meaning after you've resolved the issue) when you can ask the hypnotist to give a program that will keep you fit on trading the way you wish to.

You get my point!? You'd have to do some soul searching in order to grasp your problem. And by doing that you're already half way through it all. Now, if you find that difficult, I'd still recomend you to go to one of the guy's they'll recommend you and tell them about your issue, and they'll help you from there.

I hope I've cleared things for you a bit. Let me know if there's something else you wish to know.

/George

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mafuki
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thank you for this post. never thought of it that way before.

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 goldilocks 
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George View Post
You see my point?! For i.e. if you have issues with money, and that lies as junk in your subconscious mind, for different reasons. Then the suggestions part (programing) is not going to make a 100% improvement, unless the issues is solved first.

You have to understand that the issue is there for a logical reason, and has the function of protecting you. The moment the issue is penetrated, and the emotional charge is penetrated, then it let's you off it's hook, and the issue is gone. That's the part (meaning after you've resolved the issue) when you can ask the hypnotist to give a program that will keep you fit on trading the way you wish to.

You get my point!? You'd have to do some soul searching in order to grasp your problem. And by doing that you're already half way through it all.
/George

Thank you, George,
That was very clear and very helpful. We'll see how it goes. I'm not scheduled till January. In the meantime, I can get better in touch with "all my (many) issues" (LOL) using The Sedona Method that you and wh have mentioned. Thank you again.

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 cclsys 
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I feel kinda silly about my post in most Highly Recommended Books last weekend w/o having read this thread... I appreciate the comments here a great deal.

As a yoga instructor, I had the understanding of 2 brains (not that it matters really): primitive (reptilian - fight or flight) and the more advanced brain (non reactive).

My experience in yoga was initially (since I was so used to reacting vs feeling uncomfortable or painful feelings) that I preferred the very active yoga-- keep moving all the time was better for me (so I could avoid what was coming up for me).

Then, over time, I learned how to relax into being really uncomfortable (still not my favorite experience.) And, this is where/when I could choose new responses to my practice and outside of class, to people, life, etc.

It is said that yoga helps build the new brain- neocortex - and if one learns to really slow the breath and hold an uncomfortable posture and hang with it, that one really can increase the size and use this (non reactive/choose a response vs. the habitual kicking in) side of the brain more often.

I have been very interested in the mind/body connection, too. My experience is that the muscles/body hold memories/emotions... in fact, there is work (Upleddger: craniosacral therapy) where they took Vietnam Vets who had post traumatic stress syndrome and found that the body had contracted into a certain holding pattern and upon releasing the musculature, that the emotional release had to then be addressed. The body was holding in what was too painful to handle w/o assistance. So, teams have been set up at some forts (Ft. Benning, I think is one), where a massage therapist and a psychiatrist/psycholgist (preferably one with combat exp) helps guide the person thru...

I also see this in my yoga classes where a person holding a particular posture starts crying in class... their body has relaxed and released enough that they are having to deal with the emotional part that was "stuck" in the muscles, etc.

That said, I want to look at the Sedona Method. Have tried some of the other techniques mentioned by George and others.. But in terms of my trading, I clearly still need something. smile

Goldilocks. I found much of that quite interesting, esp. about the two brains business. What about the real lower brain aka the 'enteric'? In the West we have gone so far (until recently) as to actually deny the existence of the lower brain which is often the main focus in Asian techniques of totally different schools - such as hatha yoga and Zen buddhism for example, not to mention samurai-related martial arts, kung fu, Tibetan yogas and so on, all very different and yet all emphasising the real lower brain work (versus reptile element in upper/head brain). And yet even some Western scientists have documented how there is MUCH more synaptic activity in the gut - where supposedly there isn't a brain at all - than in the cortex area. For example: when you raise and lower your arms, the initial synaptic activity is in the gut and it takes more time for the signals to get into the brain area than it does for the arms to start lifting; in other words, the notion that 'the brain' tells the arms to lift is a modern myth akin to a superstition. So many modern people 'believe' that the head brain governs all that even when clear scientific observation documents that this is not really the case, it doesn't shake that belief. And yet if you look at any old Indian yoga chakra system chart (same with Chinese and Tibetan buddhist equivalents) you always see that the gut area chakra has at least double the 'petals' than the brain one, and sometimes far more. This is not new news, in other words, but very old news. The same sort of intelligence that could uncover and work with meridians even though us modern types can't see them with all our fancy technology and head-based analytical/abstract approach, i.e. it's not based on actual body/perception, rather mental theory which is not the same thing at all.

You might find doing some research into basic Chinese medical theory of great interest since their system (it is a multi-system approach but anyway) links various aspects of mind and emotion to various different core organs/energies, sometimes known as the 5 phases/energies. For example: emotions are stored in the central spleen/stomach-ruled complex; long-term memory in the ruling heart/small intestine complex; short term memory and immediate will power in the kidney/bladder complex. Indeed, they don't regard the head brain as very important at all since it is not related to emotions, rather being a switchboard for handling complex data input from the senses, i.e. it's mainly an information/data gathering point, but not the main thing at all in terms of living personality/experience.

I have yet to delve into the psychology-related material for traders, including Sedona etc. and am quite willing to believe that along with a lot of crap, there is some good stuff. I did notice with pleasure and approval that in some of the pieces of Steenbarger which I quickly skimmed through and hope to go through in more depth later, that he made the point that trying to eradicate emotions etc. is a false path.

Again, in the various different yoga traditions from Asia - several of which I was quite familiar with years ago - they agree in general though coming from very different points of view with different goals that, in the words of Peter Gabriel, 'you gotta get in to get out'. In terms of blockages, whether habitually rooted or in terms of ongoing fear/negativity/discomfort etc. the best way to deal with them is to accept them fully and feel them fully. The feelings themselves are the gateway into the solutions, whereas the typical response to unpleasant feelings, especially for example those like the sense of loss/fear that can occur in the trading dynamic, is to avoid them, overcome them, find a way around them.

I think this is the core inner battleground wherein combining method, strategy and experience separates those who can make it as traders and those who cannot. For myself personally, I know I am still on the edge there and the main issues are all involved with the mental/emotional aspect at this point, with various aspects that I am still unwilling to face/see clearly holding me up.

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 goldilocks 
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cclsys View Post
I think this is the core inner battleground wherein combining method, strategy and experience separates those who can make it as traders and those who cannot. For myself personally, I know I am still on the edge there and the main issues are all involved with the mental/emotional aspect at this point, with various aspects that I am still unwilling to face/see clearly holding me up.

Wow. You have lots of knowledge, for sure...

To respond to your subject about the number of brains.. LOL. I think George has pointed out several more than I have in this same thread. I would venture a guess that one can identify a certain number that effectively deals with whatever subject is at hand. In my case, reactiveness vs. non reactiveness was my focus. And, thus, I only dealt with the two mentioned.

One could also start a conversation about the right brain vs. left brain.... most people (Western world) stay in the left and have a difficult time shifting out of the mental body into the intuitive one. George, I believe, touched on this, too, with the theta/beta conversation. And, to me, this is an important conversation.... as if one can use the brain holistically, you have a much greater access to more of what is happening. Yoga helps train a person to use both sides of the brain and as one practices more often, it reinforces that cross over the corpus collosum, which connects the left & right brain to become more holistic.

Yes. Though I'm not professing to be an expert, I do know quite a bit about Oriental medicine, chakras, etc. I am going to sidestep a direct answer on some of what you brought up and merely try to get to something that may be helpful: I have learned that the abdomen is the "seat of wisdom." This has also been indicated as "listening to your gut."

To put them all together, when a person is breathing shallowly, chances are good he/she is in flight or fight mode (beta brain waves) OR can most easily go there. However, if one breathes slowly and deeply into the abdomen, a physiological response happens whereby a person now is more likely to be non reactive and shifts from beta into alpha (theta is even deeper than alpha) brain waves, a more relaxed, creative place.

Many to most people I initially teach in yoga --rarely, if ever, breathe deeply enough to engage the abdomen, but it is an important element. Until one does, chances are good that there is a confusion in the messages the person gets. They might merely be getting emotions: fear, etc. and feel it is their intuition. Or, they feel they ought to take action on emotion vs. allow a delay to check in (non reactive approach). The way I tell my students that they know they hear their intution is that the message comes before anything happens AND it is not necessarily urgent: it does not say "JUMP!!!," it says, "hmm. I think I should do this." And, the message repeats and nags and nudges repeatedly.

That said, many to most people also want to avoid their emotions. I probably used to and still have to watch this: where my head tries to help me avoid something that I fear will be overly painful. So, there is a desire to avoid -- or to try to use a saying/mantra/thought to replace something that hasn't been fully felt or identified yet. I don't think this works. I guess that's why the Sedona Method does: one first feels, identifies and accepts and processes the emotion. Then, it can be released and the person and system moves into a more non reactive (neutral) place.

For people who are extremely mental in their approach to living, trading, etc., I would say adding exercise could be very helpful. Anything that activates a different energy center (chakra), would reduce the overuse of the mind and allow a greater balance to occur in the body. Again, going deeper, down to chakras, 1 & 2, (down into the abdomen), would be logical.

Again, to respond with yoga, to get people out of their heads, one can move the body -- a more active style of yoga (or use cardio, etc.), followed by deep breathing. The deep breathing would follow a strong "workout," as the person has now begun to shift out of the head and into the body (instincts) and has a greater chance of being successful being still.

Thanks for an interesting discussion.

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 geronimo72 
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hi guys,
1. who believe there is no chance to change yourself ? yes , you can
2. what are our believes from childhood ? from any time .....did you believe rich peopele are not good ? cary on .......... are you better becauce you go to church ?

please find you believes about abundance.......
3. if you look at the chart, do you see signal to entry ? do you ? if you do , entry , nothing wrong................................folow the steps...........once you entered , can t change it...so there is no time to be stresed..........only if you want to be stresed.....do you ? no ? no reason
4. so please , make your plan , put all your thoughts into it ....step by step........
5.big mike says does anyone say you have to trade,......be pacient....wait for trend..please...wait...

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 geronimo72 
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hi anybody ,
another exercise to observe an actin is to observe all action during a day....let s pratcice......
morning......are you aware of brushing you teeth ? are you aware of making coffee ? are you aware of siting in a chair ?
well , there are lots of thoughts witch disturb our awarenes of yourself.............why ? because we use to thing...a lot.....about a future...about a past...thats disturbing.....

i tell you something.....become a master of you mind......focuse......martial art is an example........meditation is an example.......
start.....once you we have to start...........

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 traderTX 
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i think answers come from within. inventors have an idea but not the method, work at it until they finally get the right solution, voila, the light bulb. we have intuition also, a knowing and trusting of one's self, feelings, a hunch. i wont trade a hunch yet, but i will trust a hunch i have and test it, often we just discount a hunch with testing it. not because some hunches are incorrect, because we can fake ourself out, our mind has so many "programs" running they can conflict.

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 cory 
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this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually


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 Slipknot511 
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cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually

Funny how it usually takes a book, powerpoint presentation or government study before we accept what we knew all along.

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 nillz123 
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Great Video!

Explains alot.



cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually


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master
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Hi traders,

Have someone already watched "Letting Go" movie, related to the Sedona Method ?

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 Fat Tails 
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cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually

The US saltwater universities are full of ignorant socialists. How can they dare not to believe in the unviersal power of money? McCarthy would never have allowed that such subversive theories be published and undermine the foundations of capitalism.

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 George 
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The US saltwater universities are full of ignorant socialists. How can they dare not to believe in the unviersal power of money? McCarthy would never have allowed that such subversive theories be published and undermine the foundations of capitalism.

Fat Tails,

Have you abandoned the ape?! Looks to me as if you want to bring out the beast within you. This one is even more ugly than that big ape you had before. I still liked the baby ape best.

But I love the symbolic part, can't really decipher it but I'm sure it means something!

Now, pardon my nakedness and maybe illiterate attitude, but who is McCarthy, and why are you trying to provoke my thread in an ironical way!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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 Fat Tails 
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George View Post
Fat Tails,

Have you abandoned the ape?! Looks to me as if you want to bring out the beast within you. This one is even more ugly than that big ape you had before. I still liked the baby ape best.

But I love the symbolic part, can't really decipher it but I'm sure it means something!

Now, pardon my nakedness and maybe illiterate attitude, but who is McCarthy, and why are you trying to provoke my thread in an ironical way!

Hi George,

nice to hear you are still alive. How is your bat doing?

Asking about McCarthy, then you are probably not old enough to have known him. He stands for decision heuristics based on rooted beliefs and the subconscious. Just to say, the invisible hand and conventional economics has much in similar with creationism. It ignores empirical evidence and instead deducts its limited wisdom from whatever is availble. Minsky and Mandelbrot have never got the attention they deserve and the science of economics has basically lost 30 years, because it has adhered to the "Concept of Conventional Wisdom", as described by John Kenneth Galbraith in his book "The Affluent Society".

In the US these beliefs are firmly rooted in the bible belt and promulgated by the freshwater universities. After all Chicago the the center of conventional economic wisdom. But reality is more complex than economist have imagined, there are no equilibriums, but non-linear relationships between the different aggregate, which cannot be mastered. See paper below which puts up a 90 add equatitios to study the macroeconomic behaviour of just two model economies.

https://aix1.uottawa.ca/~robinson/Lavoie/Working/2.pdf

The monitor lizard stands for the lost world of evolution, there are still an estimated 5,000 around on a few Eastern Indonesian islands, as compared with the 40,000 odd orang utans. It could have been something else. Monitor lizards are 100 kg weighing predators that use venom toxin to kill their pray, sort of big snakes with four legs. Not a sympathetic encounter in the real world.

The world of economics and the world of trading is very similar to the world of evolution of species. None of them seems to be understood by politicians and many scientists, because it is counter-intuitive. Our mind rejects complexity and prefers simple solutions and messages which can be stored and conveyed in our modern world of images.

The inquisition is still underway, McCarthy has never died, and monitor lizards or orang utans are symbols of a past which will not return.

Varanus komodoensis (Komodo Dragon, Komodo Monitor, Ora)

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PepperPhd
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The Sedona Method is a valuable tool in the process of becoming a consistently profitable trader.

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 kman 
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interesting moviehttp://www.hulu.com/watch/196872/nova-mind-over-money#s-p2-so-i0

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parttimetrader
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I think Lefevre's 'Reminsinces...' has some of the best insights on the innter battle that I've ever read. It's all about fear vs greed. A couple of things I picked up were:
It's NEVER too late to get out of/into a trade
Be prepared to admit you are wrong and TAKE THE LOSS.. it might get a lot worse.

I'll give you an example. I went on honeymoon at the end of july and lost a lot of money becasue I had a big holding of Uk bank shares and we had a market rout and I wasn't monitoring the markets. However, Although I'd lost a load of money, I could see that things weren't going to get better, the news and fundamentals were both terrible. It was tempting to hang on rather than swallowing the loss, but Lefevres words were ringhing in my ears. I sold everything, and the next day there was another plummet.

Anyway.. get the book, it was written almost 90 years ago, but that's irrelevant, as the phsychology hasnt changed since speculation and investment was invented. It's fascinating to think that your inner turmoil is exacly the same as some guy thousands of years ago trading grain in rome, or rice in Peking was experiencing.

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 jwhtrades 
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cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually


Cory this is a very interesting video. To me this explains, at least in part why there are so many generous contributors in this forum. The thread, that invites novice traders and non-programmers to obtain help from the more skilled members shows these theories in action.

May I also ask you to explain what a MADA practicioner does?

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327trader
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parttimetrader View Post
I think Lefevre's 'Reminsinces...' has some of the best insights on the innter battle that I've ever read. It's all about fear vs greed. A couple of things I picked up were:
It's NEVER too late to get out of/into a trade
Be prepared to admit you are wrong and TAKE THE LOSS.. it might get a lot worse.


it is very difficult sometimes to do this.i have learned that the hard way.now i am more cautious.
you have to be very disciplined to stick to your own strategy sometimes.

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 Init 
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That was a very interesting video.
I brings you to the core of the foundation deep inside every human. "the desire to feel important"
People wonder why gang members will rob and kill others and do things that just dont make sense. The only reason they do is because in their group, they feel important. They are willing to die for it.
Did you know that about 50% of all people that are declared insane, are really not. Those people have actually went into a false reality or fantacy world, where, in that world, they mean something or make a difference.
You can have anything you want in this world, if you treat people right and ginuinely care and listen.
If a bum on the street started talking to me, I would listen. Because thats probably how he ended up there...

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jgomez74
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I know this thread started long time ago, but since I just joined the forum, I also want to comment about this and I hope I can also get some suggestions.

George, this is a great thread, all the info you have written is such valuable. Iīve been also studying this topic during the last year and I totally agree with you.

As you said the standard methods to reprogram the subconcious are based on affirmations and visualizations. They became more popular after the following books were written;

"The Law of Mentalism" written by Victor Segno at the beginning of the 1900 century,
" Think and Grow Rich" written by Napoleon Hill by around 1937
"The Science of Getting Rich" written by Wallace D Wattles around the same time.

After that many other methods have emerged. In another thread I mention many of them like: meditation, hypnosis, listening to binaural or isoncronic audios, writing life scripts or essays only using possitive language, subliminal audios and videos.

Some others more recent like Sun Gazing, Watching the light of a Candle, Universal Energy etc.

We also have the gurus of the Law of Attraction and all their programs like Bob Proctor and his Six minutes to success, Dr Rober Anthony and his Secret of Deliberate Creation program and his other programs, Anthony Robbins, Joe Vitale etc.

When I started a thread similar to this one, I asked for another method that could help to reprogram the subconcious. Someone told me about the Sedona Method that I have not heard before and it is exactly the method that you George were recommending.

Since you George started that method more than two years ago, could you share with us all the effects that it has had in your life and in your trading business, please?

I am half way of the Sedona Method home study course, however, I find hard to release, to let go. Could you give me some advices that worked for you?

I know the Sedona Method is for releasing and cleaning the subconcious, and many of the other methods I mentioned are for the reprogramming.

What do you think about the Silva Method, have you tried it? Have you been following only the Sedona Method or have you combined it with something else?

I really appreciate your help or anybodys on this and I thank you in advance.

Jorge

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 George 
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jgomez74 View Post
I know this thread started long time ago, but since I just joined the forum, I also want to comment about this and I hope I can also get some suggestions.

George, this is a great thread, all the info you have written is such valuable. Iīve been also studying this topic during the last year and I totally agree with you.

As you said the standard methods to reprogram the subconcious are based on affirmations and visualizations. They became more popular after the following books were written;

"The Law of Mentalism" written by Victor Segno at the beginning of the 1900 century,
" Think and Grow Rich" written by Napoleon Hill by around 1937
"The Science of Getting Rich" written by Wallace D Wattles around the same time.

After that many other methods have emerged. In another thread I mention many of them like: meditation, hypnosis, listening to binaural or isoncronic audios, writing life scripts or essays only using possitive language, subliminal audios and videos.

Some others more recent like Sun Gazing, Watching the light of a Candle, Universal Energy etc.

We also have the gurus of the Law of Attraction and all their programs like Bob Proctor and his Six minutes to success, Dr Rober Anthony and his Secret of Deliberate Creation program and his other programs, Anthony Robbins, Joe Vitale etc.

When I started a thread similar to this one, I asked for another method that could help to reprogram the subconcious. Someone told me about the Sedona Method that I have not heard before and it is exactly the method that you George were recommending.

Since you George started that method more than two years ago, could you share with us all the effects that it has had in your life and in your trading business, please?

I am half way of the Sedona Method home study course, however, I find hard to release, to let go. Could you give me some advices that worked for you?

I know the Sedona Method is for releasing and cleaning the subconcious, and many of the other methods I mentioned are for the reprogramming.

What do you think about the Silva Method, have you tried it? Have you been following only the Sedona Method or have you combined it with something else?

I really appreciate your help or anybodys on this and I thank you in advance.

Jorge

Jorge,

What can I tell you? Does the Sedona or the Silva Method work? Do you need those in order to reprogram your mind and take the short cut in order to become a great trader.

The answer to all this is both yes and no. What does it take to become a great trader. You have to get in into your system a different kind of thinking that is totally adapted to how the market works. Are we as human beings even designed to be able to do that? No! Why? Because the markets are dynamic and our mind is static. Our mind is projecting the future based on the past. Sounds like technical analysis right?! Does technical analysis work? Yes and no!

It works when it works and it doesn't when it doesn't. The problem is not that. The problem is that we expect it to work on a constant basis. Why do we do that? Because we're built that way . Uncertainty kills us, it makes us feel threatened or unsafe. It puts us in a negative mode. Negative mode = Stress. Stress = Bad Perceptions. Bad Perceptions (in the market) = We only perceive part of the truth, and that part is very, very subjective. That's why you always get it afterwards, asking yourself how you could be that stupid and take that trade. Now you can see it clearly, but when you took it believe me you could have sworn it was the right trade to take.

So, would Sedona or Silva get you onto the other side? No! Why? Because the pure essence of trading can't be reprogrammed with something that isn't there. What you need in trading in order to become great is a system/method that you are convinced works. And second you need to be able to execute that.

Sedona or Silva can't get you there because none of them contains that. But what they can do for you is to help you ease that path. After all you're the one that's gone walk the path. If any of them clicks with you, then by all means go for it, use your intention to get rid of what you need to get rid of in order to ease your path.

But remember there are no short cuts out there, we al have to program in the trading agenda in order to make this work!

Good Luck!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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jgomez74
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George View Post
Jorge,

What can I tell you? Does the Sedona or the Silva Method work? Do you need those in order to reprogram your mind and take the short cut in order to become a great trader.

The answer to all this is both yes and no. What does it take to become a great trader. You have to get in into your system a different kind of thinking that is totally adapted to how the market works. Are we as human beings even designed to be able to do that? No! Why? Because the markets are dynamic and our mind is static. Our mind is projecting the future based on the past. Sounds like technical analysis right?! Does technical analysis work? Yes and no!

It works when it works and it doesn't when it doesn't. The problem is not that. The problem is that we expect it to work on a constant basis. Why do we do that? Because we're built that way . Uncertainty kills us, it makes us feel threatened or unsafe. It puts us in a negative mode. Negative mode = Stress. Stress = Bad Perceptions. Bad Perceptions (in the market) = We only perceive part of the truth, and that part is very, very subjective. That's why you always get it afterwards, asking yourself how you could be that stupid and take that trade. Now you can see it clearly, but when you took it believe me you could have sworn it was the right trade to take.

So, would Sedona or Silva get you onto the other side? No! Why? Because the pure essence of trading can't be reprogrammed with something that isn't there. What you need in trading in order to become great is a system/method that you are convinced works. And second you need to be able to execute that.

Sedona or Silva can't get you there because none of them contains that. But what they can do for you is to help you ease that path. After all you're the one that's gone walk the path. If any of them clicks with you, then by all means go for it, use your intention to get rid of what you need to get rid of in order to ease your path.

But remember there are no short cuts out there, we al have to program in the trading agenda in order to make this work!

Good Luck!

George, thank you very much for your answer and deep thoughts. As I said, this thread started more than two years ago, I think that after that period you have come to this conclusion.

You are very right when you say that uncertainty may be very harmful if we do not know how to handle it. Trust in our method and the capability to execute it is the way that we can handle uncertainty. We must get use to uncertainty because in this business it will always be there.

Once we accept that true about uncertainty, trust our method and execute it, we will be able to become good traders. And thatīs the issue, since uncertainty related to money makes our mind and body to feel so many emotions that may make us not to execute or follow our method properly.

We must also accept that our trading method will not work all the time, and we should not allow that to affect us, but execute it all the time if we trust it and know that on the long run it will make more money than losing it.

What a trader must do is not to focus on the money, but to focus on the technicals, what I mean is to focus on execute his method exactly as it says, just as a technician will do in any other profession where he must apply certain process.

I understand that the sedona or Silva mehtod, or any other method will not make us a professional trader per se, but they are tools to ease our path to become that. Specially if they help you to handle or manage the uncertainty and not to be affected by the loser traders.

I am still trading on SIM. Iīve been doing well, three or four winning days per week. The days that I lose are because I might not follow my method because of fear or any related emotion. I tend to move my stop loss sometiems, because I do not want to take the loss of the trade. Sometimes it works, but some others it does not. What happens is that my method uses a very short stop loss only 5 ticks, and if you do not have your enties with a precise timing it can make you to have several losing trades.

I know I must follow the method and master my entries. I only one to tune that up to go alive with a cash account.

Thatīs why I asked about the different mind programs, so that I can handle uncertainty in a better way and to diminish the impact of emotions.

Of course that I have improved a lot from where I was four or six months ago and also to notice and realize the progress is important in this path.

Good luck to you too.

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JuneBug
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This is a huge area of importance. It can make you or break you. I have gotten some really great support on this from Steve Wheeler at Navitrader who is a firm believer in positive thinking and its effects on your life and trading. The book and DVD, "The Secret" are definitely worth reading and watching.

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 Lornz 
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JuneBug View Post
This is a huge area of importance. It can make you or break you. I have gotten some really great support on this from Steve Wheeler at Navitrader who is a firm believer in positive thinking and its effects on your life and trading. The book and DVD, "The Secret" are definitely worth reading and watching.

You seem to mention NaviTrader quite often....

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 George 
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jgomez74 View Post
George, thank you very much for your answer and deep thoughts. As I said, this thread started more than two years ago, I think that after that period you have come to this conclusion.

You are very right when you say that uncertainty may be very harmful if we do not know how to handle it. Trust in our method and the capability to execute it is the way that we can handle uncertainty. We must get use to uncertainty because in this business it will always be there.

Once we accept that true about uncertainty, trust our method and execute it, we will be able to become good traders. And thatīs the issue, since uncertainty related to money makes our mind and body to feel so many emotions that may make us not to execute or follow our method properly.

We must also accept that our trading method will not work all the time, and we should not allow that to affect us, but execute it all the time if we trust it and know that on the long run it will make more money than losing it.

What a trader must do is not to focus on the money, but to focus on the technicals, what I mean is to focus on execute his method exactly as it says, just as a technician will do in any other profession where he must apply certain process.

I understand that the sedona or Silva mehtod, or any other method will not make us a professional trader per se, but they are tools to ease our path to become that. Specially if they help you to handle or manage the uncertainty and not to be affected by the loser traders.

I am still trading on SIM. Iīve been doing well, three or four winning days per week. The days that I lose are because I might not follow my method because of fear or any related emotion. I tend to move my stop loss sometiems, because I do not want to take the loss of the trade. Sometimes it works, but some others it does not. What happens is that my method uses a very short stop loss only 5 ticks, and if you do not have your enties with a precise timing it can make you to have several losing trades.

I know I must follow the method and master my entries. I only one to tune that up to go alive with a cash account.

Thatīs why I asked about the different mind programs, so that I can handle uncertainty in a better way and to diminish the impact of emotions.

Of course that I have improved a lot from where I was four or six months ago and also to notice and realize the progress is important in this path.

Good luck to you too.


Divide it into different segments. Start with your edge and learn to trust it. Either by back testing it or by executing it on a consecutive basis. After that take the step towards YOU!

When you know that your edge is working. Know also that it is you and only you that's standing in the way. When you talk about your system you talk about having issues with entry's. Entry's are very important when we speak about your edge and how they relate to that. In other words, if you execute an entry flawless it will bring you closer to having the odds on your side.
But entry's are far from the most important thing when we're talking about making it to the top and stay there. YOUR EXITS!; that's the key, and what happens after you've entered. In other words how you administrate your trade after you've entered the trade.

And that thing has to do with your system. Again, you have to do the work and make your system waterproof.

Now, I'm going to repeat myself. When you've done your system waterproof (remember there's no perfect system out there, all you need is a system that gets you on the positive side) take the step towards starting to monitor yourself. Why? Because you're the one that's going to have to pull the trigger and to follow your plan. If you know that your plan is working (and you have that proven and I'm talking about pure numbers here), but you're still not getting the good results executing it, then it is probably due to the fact that you have something in your belief system that's stops you from executing it correctly.

Here's where you should imply methods such as those you are suggesting, and that I've also suggested in previous posts. So keep it simple and work yourself systematically through it by taking the right steps. Now, with all that being said I'm sure that those methods can make you benefit in other ways as well, but as long as you lack a proven edge you're not gone end up on the right side of things. An edge together with a good pilot executing it, can take you to the moon and beyond!

Good Luck!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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jgomez74
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George View Post
Divide it into different segments. Start with your edge and learn to trust it. Either by back testing it or by executing it on a consecutive basis. After that take the step towards YOU!

When you know that your edge is working. Know also that it is you and only you that's standing in the way. When you talk about your system you talk about having issues with entry's. Entry's are very important when we speak about your edge and how they relate to that. In other words, if you execute an entry flawless it will bring you closer to having the odds on your side.
But entry's are far from the most important thing when we're talking about making it to the top and stay there. YOUR EXITS!; that's the key, and what happens after you've entered. In other words how you administrate your trade after you've entered the trade.

And that thing has to do with your system. Again, you have to do the work and make your system waterproof.

Now, I'm going to repeat myself. When you've done your system waterproof (remember there's no perfect system out there, all you need is a system that gets you on the positive side) take the step towards starting to monitor yourself. Why? Because you're the one that's going to have to pull the trigger and to follow your plan. If you know that your plan is working (and you have that proven and I'm talking about pure numbers here), but you're still not getting the good results executing it, then it is probably due to the fact that you have something in your belief system that's stops you from executing it correctly.

Here's where you should imply methods such as those you are suggesting, and that I've also suggested in previous posts. So keep it simple and work yourself systematically through it by taking the right steps. Now, with all that being said I'm sure that those methods can make you benefit in other ways as well, but as long as you lack a proven edge you're not gone end up on the right side of things. An edge together with a good pilot executing it, can take you to the moon and beyond!

Good Luck!

George, thank you very much again for your very helpful suggestions.

As I said, Iīve been having good results on SIM and I am sure my method works. Now I only need to make the big leap to start trading a live with a cash account.

Thanks again and Good luck for you too.

Jorge

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 arjfca 
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Hello Georges

I understand that this is an old thread

From your very first post, you mention the Sedona Method was one of your preferred concept to help you to get in a good psychological zone

I did visit the Sedona Method site. They offer a lot of different products. May I ask you, witch one should I select to help me in my trading business?

Any help appreciated

Martin

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 Big Mike 
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arjfca View Post
I did visit the Sedona Method site. They offer a lot of different products. May I ask you, witch one should I select to help me in my trading business?

Also consider discussing Sedona here:



Mike

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adrianjm
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arjfca View Post
Hello George

I understand that this is an old thread

From your very first post, you mention the Sedona Method was one of your preferred concept to help you to get in a good psychological zone

I did visit the Sedona Method site. They offer a lot of different products. May I ask you, witch one should I select to help me in my trading business?

Any help appreciated

Martin

Thanks George, for these threads. It takes the concept of successful trading to a whole new level, at least for me.

I'd like to comment on the recommendation of the Sedona method. The method has been very successful for alot of people, but I could not persist with it for a number of reasons. Firstly is the repetition, it seems their is a core principle here that can be described in less than a page or two, but continues to get rehashed over and over again. If Sedona is so easy, why does it take an incredible amount of books and CD's to accomplish the skills transfer?

Secondly, its not very analytical, and I like getting into the details of stuff and wondering why something does not work. Sedona asks us to believe a competing narrative, and then 'simply release' on those ideas.

A reviewer on Amazon had very similar views to these, and recommended "CBT for Dummies" (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), and as a result I am working my way through this book and finding alot more depth and reasoning into the techniques and exercises. Highly Recommended.

Cheers,

Adrian

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 wh 
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adrianjm View Post
Thanks George, for these threads. It takes the concept of successful trading to a whole new level, at least for me.

I'd like to comment on the recommendation of the Sedona method. The method has been very successful for alot of people, but I could not persist with it for a number of reasons. Firstly is the repetition, it seems their is a core principle here that can be described in less than a page or two, but continues to get rehashed over and over again. If Sedona is so easy, why does it take an incredible amount of books and CD's to accomplish the skills transfer?

Secondly, its not very analytical, and I like getting into the details of stuff and wondering why something does not work. Sedona asks us to believe a competing narrative, and then 'simply release' on those ideas.

A reviewer on Amazon had very similar views to these, and recommended "CBT for Dummies" (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), and as a result I am working my way through this book and finding alot more depth and reasoning into the techniques and exercises. Highly Recommended.

Cheers,

Adrian

There are a lot of techniques. I like breathing - breath in and out - conscious breathing. With this kind of release you can get "no mind". I also like sedona. It was my first CBT. I switched to Core Transformation (NLP). The end is the buddhism. I read a lot of books about NLP, Hypnosis ( like also Gerald kein) and so on, but "a new world" from tolle changed my mind. Tolle and Osho recite the buddhism in a wonderful style.

In this case: breathing and buddhism is meditation. you can learn a lot of breathing techniques ...

best regards

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.
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 websouth 
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welcome back...

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adrianjm
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wh View Post
There are a lot of techniques. I like breathing - breath in and out - conscious breathing. With this kind of release you can get "no mind". I also like sedona. It was my first CBT. I switched to Core Transformation (NLP). The end is the buddhism. I read a lot of books about NLP, Hypnosis ( like also Gerald kein) and so on, but "a new world" from tolle changed my mind. Tolle and Osho recite the buddhism in a wonderful style.

In this case: breathing and buddhism is meditation. you can learn a lot of breathing techniques ...

best regards

Interesting. I have dabbled in meditation and breathing, but never really explored it fully, especially in terms of increasing trading performance.

I like the idea of NLP, but I think I heard that there was no scientific evidence that it actually works, and has failed to prove efficacy in many double blind studies. I believe I heard this from Denise Shull

I really enjoy reading and listening to Tolle. I think he speaks from a place only a few of us dream to live, but find his material inconsistent with trading - his stuff is so good, I find myself not needing to trade, since everything is perfect as it is. That is until its been about a week or so since I put his work down. Then I start looking at charts again....

Adrian

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 Anagami 
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adrianjm View Post
Interesting. I have dabbled in meditation and breathing, but never really explored it fully, especially in terms of increasing trading performance.

I like the idea of NLP, but I think I heard that there was no scientific evidence that it actually works, and has failed to prove efficacy in many double blind studies. I believe I heard this from Denise Shull

I really enjoy reading and listening to Tolle. I think he speaks from a place only a few of us dream to live, but find his material inconsistent with trading - his stuff is so good, I find myself not needing to trade, since everything is perfect as it is. That is until its been about a week or so since I put his work down. Then I start looking at charts again....

Adrian

There's lot of good stuff in all those resources. My favorite Buddhist resource is the Pocket Buddha. Lately though, I've been dabbling in cheap kindle books. The Answer has lot of good techniques.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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adrianjm
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Wow, This CBT stuff is great. Here is an example:

"Aaron Beck, founder of CBT and Dennis Greenberger, a well known CBT therapist, note that, if you can turn a counterproductive strategy on its head, your well on the way to a real solution. This concept basically means that by doing the polar opposite of your established coping strategies you can recover from your problems. Exposing yourself to feared situations rather than avoiding them is a good example of turning a counterproductive strategy on its head."

In terms of trading, for me, this can mean the following:

What's my fear? Being stopped out.
What's my current coping strategy? Increasing my risk by extending my stop, and thus reducing my R:R.
CBT: turn that on its head and accept the initial stops. Take enough trades with reasonable stops and your fears will dissipate (face your fears head on, and they will no longer be fearful (paraphrasing)).

Why its so good: I just realised that creating a strategy with stops too great is simply a counterproductive coping mechanism for my fear of being stopped out, and in reality I need to be stopped more often to create a productive coping strategy.

Adrian

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 George 
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Adrian,

I'm glad you've enjoyed the threads. My intent back then when I wrote them was to expose the why of this eternal 95% of all traders are losing money, and what lies behind it. Indeed this why of things is actually lying behind 95% of our daily lives. We're on autopilot constantly. Free will, with all the respect is only there about 1-5%. No wonder why there's this great of discrepancy between our conscious intents and our results. Now, of course trading is a wide topic including many, many more aspects than this, but those other aspects are merely only small branches of the basic concept which is pretty much determined by two things. Those two things are very much decisive for our constant outcomes. We posses these two things in our archives that turns us into what and who we are. Knowledge and Experience.

The greatest challenge in trading is not to get the knowledge and the experience but to get over the bad knowledge and the bad experience. You see, in my point of view life is very simple and our level of success is pretty much only based on one small thing. REPETITION!

What you keep on repeating you get good at. Needless to say that if we repeat bad things, we get good at bad things, if we repeat good things we get good at good things. That simple it is! In trading we have to get ourselves through the swamp, we are like innocent children that are being maltreated. Only the strong survives, but unfortunately thy keep on carrying with them all those bad aspects that has turned them into masters by repetition.

We can analyze it further, and we can keep on searching for the why of things. I've pretty much done that the most part of my adult life. I've constantly thought that if I understand the why of things that will help me to get through things and to get over to the good side. But I've come to understand that life is very, very simple and that it's all about the inner picture that we're carrying. That picture in itself is the result of repetition and it's acquired through knowledge and experience. If you take a look at your own life you'll very soon understand that life is not about understanding the why of things. It's just about what that inner picture is telling you. And your reality is only a reflection of that inner picture.

Have I changed my point of view regarding the solutions to all of this and to Sedona?! No! Is Sedona helping? Yes, there are many people out there claiming that. Has Sedona helped me? Yes and No! It helped me to understand certain things, but it didn't put the dot over the i for me. Was it the method itself? No! Was it me?! Yes! Or maybe I didn't repeat it long enough. I don't know.

We are constantly guided by our -knowledge- and -experience-. And that my friends is what lies in our subconscious minds. How did it get there? Through repetition. How do you change that? You can't! What's there is there and is always gone be there. But I've got good news! We can only have one picture active. You are either a loser or a winner. And how do you get the wining picture? By repetition! That simple it is.

Most traders out there, they don't give a crap about the underlying factors behind their failures. All they want to do is to trade. They want their candy, the gratification. But they miss this one tiny little aspect. By repetition we become masters.

So stop looking for the what's wrong with me?! Understand that you have (depending on your knowledge and experience) luggage that you're carrying around, and that you'll never be able to get rid of that. Make peace with it, and go and invest in a new picture. The one that you desire to become. I admit, it's a living hell in the beginning because we're not masters of new stuff, but keep on working on it, first on the mental basis and eventually it will start to fall into place!


Postum Script: Just think of all those moments when you are caught by fear and pain while you're in a bad trade. What makes you throw in the towel eventually is when your threshold of maximum pain is being reached. Almost a 100% after that, you're looking at the chart and you blame yourself for not seeing the right direction of that move. In other words your vision is clear now and you can see that you very did misjudge the direction of that trade. What really happened was very simple. Your inner picture in that particular moment (before the trade) told you that you should take the trade because it looks like a trade you can benefit from. So based on your -knowledge- and -experience- you identified the entry signal. While you were in the trade your mind did everything in its power to turn off every evidence that would interfere with your predefined picture. Trust me it does that! Remember your reality is a reflection of your inner picture. Now, because money is built into our mind through its own -survival- value and it got there through -knowledge- and -experience-, losing them activates pain.
Pain's function is to indicate that we ought to deviate from that action in order to honor survival. When one's threshold of pain is reached we throw in the towel. Without the clutter of pain and the previous picture in our minds anymore we start to see the light. In other words our perception is not influenced by our predetermined picture anymore, hence we can see the real direction.

We go on from there blaming ourselves for not being able to see what was right, we keep on losing mental capital. That leads to over trading and the rest is history....

Why does all this happen? What is to blame here? Is it the picture in our minds? Is it our edge? Or what else could it be?

Let's dissect them into pieces to see where we end up. First let's start with the edge. What is an edge? An edge is a probable outcome of one thing happening more often than another. That is the raw explanation of an edge. But if everything out there is determined by our inner pictures, could that then mean that the edge is in our minds and could that also tell us why there's a whole billion industry out there profiting from that? An edge is based upon a system. A system is mostly based upon Technical Analysis. Technical Analysis is based upon past pattern that will "probably" repeat in the future. Do you guys start to feel the bad taste yet?

As Mark Douglas puts it, it is impossible for a pattern to repeat itself and to have the same identical outcome as it had in the past. Is he right or is he wrong? And in case he's wrong how come we have this huge industry feeding off of that?

I believe he's right! Why? Because in order for us to have a pattern repeating itself with the same outcome as in the past, we'd be needing the same individuals taking the same decision with the same state of mind in the future. In case we'd had a mathematician here, I'm sure he or she would give a very high number in terms of non probable.
So, an edge is actually not more than an edge in our own minds! Because it sure isn't out there. It doesn't work. Now if the edge only exist in our own minds, and if the probability for the edge to repeat itself is not high we'd have to get back to the inner picture we posses.

Remember what the inner picture was the product of? -Knowledge- and -Experience-. Now, because no one is born a trader, we all have to learn trading from scratch. Learning trading from scratch with the above written in mind is not an easy thing to do. We have to get ourselves through the swamp, and only few of us survives. And those that survives are full of bruises. Indeed we can say that they're masters through repetition. How does the inner picture of an experienced trader look like? I'm sure it's not a pleasant one. Because of all those failures, that picture keeps on doing its thing in the background, and it's doing a pretty good job.

Now, let's put the two together. We have the edge in our minds, and we have the inner picture described above. Where does that take us? Into more failure right?

But how about if we change the inner picture? What would happen to the edge then? Remember the edge is not 100% and it's not probable. See the edge as something plastic that can be molded because of it's outcome. All you have to do in terms of edge is to trust it. Why? Because it will make your decision process easier.
So back to the picture, what happens if we change the picture into a good one. I'm a consistent winner picture? Let's see!

Remember taking the bad trade and the mind filtering out every price action being invalid to the inner picture outcome? Wouldn't changing the picture to a consistent winner one lead to the same thing but the other way around? I believe that this is exactly what happens, and that's how all the successful traders as well as all elite athletes does it. With the right picture in our minds, our mind is gone start to filter out all those situations when the edge will not work and it will invite you to take the good trades, and if those trades that you're taking are not good it sure will keep you out of trouble by helping you to administrate them correctly.

Become a master through repetition of the right picture, and it will do wonders to your trading!



adrianjm View Post
Thanks George, for these threads. It takes the concept of successful trading to a whole new level, at least for me.

I'd like to comment on the recommendation of the Sedona method. The method has been very successful for alot of people, but I could not persist with it for a number of reasons. Firstly is the repetition, it seems their is a core principle here that can be described in less than a page or two, but continues to get rehashed over and over again. If Sedona is so easy, why does it take an incredible amount of books and CD's to accomplish the skills transfer?

Secondly, its not very analytical, and I like getting into the details of stuff and wondering why something does not work. Sedona asks us to believe a competing narrative, and then 'simply release' on those ideas.

A reviewer on Amazon had very similar views to these, and recommended "CBT for Dummies" (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), and as a result I am working my way through this book and finding alot more depth and reasoning into the techniques and exercises. Highly Recommended.

Cheers,

Adrian


We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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adrianjm
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George,

I very much agree with your views, so much so I started a small trial a few weeks ago but didn't get very far for the reasons discussed below. I have been trading for more years than I can remember, and to date still not consistently profitable. My trading has mostly been through 'discovering' edges through backtesting and then trading those strategies until I lose enough money to realise that either they no longer work, or I can't psychologically handle the current drawdown.

Lately I have been discretionary trading, small position size, no predetermined 'edge' or mechanical trading. I have not been doing too badly, keeping my stops small, and my targets larger than my stops.

A couple of weeks ago I felt that part of my issue might be just that I am not taking enough trades to gain enough experience. I have fears of entering percieved good opportunities, especially after a couple of winning trades, although I 'know' that one should press when the going is good.

So I decided to conduct an experiment of taking 10 trades per day. I'm trading equities - volatile stocks in the S&P500. Al Brooks talks about markets being mostly in balance, such that a stop the same size as your target, each trade should have a 50% chance of success. So my thinking is that at the end of every day, my bottom line will identify how well I spotted an "out of balance" market - the trades where I had a 60% chance of success.

My initial reasons for doing this was the idea that learning to trade is a Catch-22. Successful traders know that their actions will prove successful, and can execute without issues, but new traders lack the confidence. They can only gain confidence by repeating actions that will lead to success, but without the confidence that they will be successful, they fail to execute. Hence catch-22.

Needless to say I did not persist for very long. Something got in the way that made it easy for me to give up on the process. Then my mind had me trawling some threads about 'edges', and that had me thinking that without this 'edge' initially determined and hard coded, I'm just throwing darts at a board, and not making progress.

Now that I see your post, that speaks at length about the 'edge' actually not existing 'out there', has me thinking again whether or not I should go back to my exercises of 10 trades per day, just to get me in the market, and paying attention to the right things, rather than looking for an 'edge' via backtesting or whatever.

I also have been reading Mike's thread on Trading method and Advice, where he talks about his 'edge' simply being the ability to trade better than others. I have also read from another experienced trader that he believes an 'edge' as its traditionally known by unsuccessful traders to be as imaginary as the holy grail of indicators - non existent. His 'edge' is "knowing how to trade" (ie execute), and when you can determine the market is out of balance and the trade is in your favour. Nothing more mechanical than that.

I have traded in Simulators long enough to know that without real money on the line, I don't learn anything. I believe my path to successful trading is about knowing myself, and that without the potential risk of losing real money, I get no mental training whatsoever.

My question is, do you think the exercise of just 'trading' on a regular basis, without the prior knowledge of a perceived 'edge' will help in providing the positive repetition you talk about in your post? I felt that I was making some progress with my plan - learning not to take breakouts at the open, attempting to understand my inner dialogue when I entered a trade etc. But its tough. Really tough. Like diving into a black pool. It was so easy to give up last week, that now I am thinking that it must have been worthwhile, if only for the very reason I found it so tough and gave up on it so easily?

Adrian

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 George 
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adrianjm View Post
George,

I very much agree with your views, so much so I started a small trial a few weeks ago but didn't get very far for the reasons discussed below. I have been trading for more years than I can remember, and to date still not consistently profitable. My trading has mostly been through 'discovering' edges through backtesting and then trading those strategies until I lose enough money to realise that either they no longer work, or I can't psychologically handle the current drawdown.

Lately I have been discretionary trading, small position size, no predetermined 'edge' or mechanical trading. I have not been doing too badly, keeping my stops small, and my targets larger than my stops.

A couple of weeks ago I felt that part of my issue might be just that I am not taking enough trades to gain enough experience. I have fears of entering percieved good opportunities, especially after a couple of winning trades, although I 'know' that one should press when the going is good.

So I decided to conduct an experiment of taking 10 trades per day. I'm trading equities - volatile stocks in the S&P500. Al Brooks talks about markets being mostly in balance, such that a stop the same size as your target, each trade should have a 50% chance of success. So my thinking is that at the end of every day, my bottom line will identify how well I spotted an "out of balance" market - the trades where I had a 60% chance of success.

My initial reasons for doing this was the idea that learning to trade is a Catch-22. Successful traders know that their actions will prove successful, and can execute without issues, but new traders lack the confidence. They can only gain confidence by repeating actions that will lead to success, but without the confidence that they will be successful, they fail to execute. Hence catch-22.

Needless to say I did not persist for very long. Something got in the way that made it easy for me to give up on the process. Then my mind had me trawling some threads about 'edges', and that had me thinking that without this 'edge' initially determined and hard coded, I'm just throwing darts at a board, and not making progress.

Now that I see your post, that speaks at length about the 'edge' actually not existing 'out there', has me thinking again whether or not I should go back to my exercises of 10 trades per day, just to get me in the market, and paying attention to the right things, rather than looking for an 'edge' via backtesting or whatever.

I also have been reading Mike's thread on Trading method and Advice, where he talks about his 'edge' simply being the ability to trade better than others. I have also read from another experienced trader that he believes an 'edge' as its traditionally known by unsuccessful traders to be as imaginary as the holy grail of indicators - non existent. His 'edge' is "knowing how to trade" (ie execute), and when you can determine the market is out of balance and the trade is in your favour. Nothing more mechanical than that.

I have traded in Simulators long enough to know that without real money on the line, I don't learn anything. I believe my path to successful trading is about knowing myself, and that without the potential risk of losing real money, I get no mental training whatsoever.

My question is, do you think the exercise of just 'trading' on a regular basis, without the prior knowledge of a perceived 'edge' will help in providing the positive repetition you talk about in your post? I felt that I was making some progress with my plan - learning not to take breakouts at the open, attempting to understand my inner dialogue when I entered a trade etc. But its tough. Really tough. Like diving into a black pool. It was so easy to give up last week, that now I am thinking that it must have been worthwhile, if only for the very reason I found it so tough and gave up on it so easily?

Adrian



An edge, well what is an edge? And I'm going to answer to this question strictly from my point of view and in terms of my own experience with that little big essence in trading.

If I'm to jump directly to the end of my story, I'd say that an edge has to equal YOU. You'll be finding your edge when you'll find that one thing that truly works for you. And by you I mean YOU and no one else, even if it's a copied edge built by someone else from the beginning.

You see most of us don't have that inherited genius of building systems and come up with things that really get us a unique edge in the markets. So we have to rely on books, webinars, masters, and so on. The problem with all of that is that often most masters out there are really not masters, but merely parasites feeding off of us, because of our eager to make things work. Now, with that being said we do have some of them that are indeed true and masterful, but they are few and the secrets are well kept.
But letís return to our edge! Why would you need to make an edge to be your own? Because what youíll need in terms of executing and administration of an edge is smoothness and ease. Too much resistance and it will break you instead. Just have a look at all those things youíre forcing yourself to do by discipline. On the other hand if you think of all the things youíre doing with pleasure then thereís a different story shaping.
So youíll need to make the edge your own and to mold it into your character in order to get rid of the resistance and to integrate relaxation and smoothness into your executing and administration of an edge. How to do that is up to you because youíre the only one knowing yourself well enough in order to know whatís fine for you.
The second part of all this is that youíd have to get yourself an edge that youíll be trusting. And by trust I mean that its reward has to be convincing enough for you in order to make you want to execute it again, and again and again!
When you back test things, itís not really you growing into trusting your edge, itís more kind of like watching TV and asking yourself to believe in a commercial, or itís like reading a science script and believing the research. You do create a trust in the message, but it is not really that trustworthy as that tree in front of your house, of which existence you will not doubt at all. Do you understand where Iím trying to get here? Iím speaking about beliefs that can be and are being changed and Iím talking about trust without a doubt.
In terms of trusting your edge, and in order to make it work for you youíd have to make it to the latter part. Youíd have to trust your edge without the slightest ounce of doubt.

With that being said, I will give you some tips of how Iíve done it. First and foremost you have to pick something that fits you, and by that youíd have to look at level of tolerance in terms of stops. Where is your pain threshold? How many minutes do you tolerate a trade going against you? How would you best take your gains? A fix target or a target based upon various factors? What fits you there? When are you most fitted to be trading? Morning, afternoon all day? How much do tolerate in terms of concentration? What do you have to do in order to get back your concentration? And so on!

When youíve answered to all those questions, pick a system that can be implemented into the frame you got from your answers. Remember to keep it simple, there are people making a living by trading moving averages and nothing else. Iím not saying you should do that, Iím just emphasizing to keep it simple or go advanced if that fits you, but keep it simple in terms of the equation that I keep talking about Edge=You!

When youíre done doing that, youíd have to get to the part of learning to trust your system without the slightest ounce of doubt. In this case there are two paths you can take and both require time and repetition. The first paths is strictly by executing and keep on executing till youíve grown into trusting it without any doubt at all. The second path, and thatís the one Iím recommending you is to start scrolling back your charts and to back test by hand. Look for relations on the chart where your criteria are met. Do your stats by hand. By doing that youíll be seeing how your criteria behaves on the chart and youíll know what to expect, plus that it will create an internal picture in your mind of what to expect by your system/criteria. Make sure you gather enough samples in order to make it valid.

Do the work, have the right intention, use your stubbornness to stay on the right path and youíll see that soon enough youíll be leaving less and less space for failure and eventually failure will be replaced with constant winning instead!

Good Luck my friend!


PS: The answer to your question in simple terms is No. The problem with not having a perceived edge and to get rid of the negativity by executing on ďfreshĒ ground will not work at all because your mind is always trying to create order out of the chaos, and it is doing that by relying on its Ėknowledge- and Ėexperience-. So Iím sorry to say this, but you have to get the right Ėexperience- and the only aid/shortcut that there is out there is by creating a mental picture where youíre executing and administrating correctly your trades. By repeating that youíll be creating the right experience. Remember that repetition makes us masters of what lies behind the repetition, so by repeating the ďsomething is wrong with meĒ will only get you better at that. And even if you find the ďwhatís wrong with youĒ -(Donít get me wrong please, every one of us has that picture in their heads and if enough people will get to raise their awareness on this whole topic, I believe weíll be getting a better world)- background and you manage to neutralize that, youíd still be needing the right Ėexperience- in trading in order to make it!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #68 (permalink)
kerrmac
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The fear of success is a funny concept but I totally get it. When you succeed at something there are expectations internally or externally, real or imagined that you have to live up to. In my experience targeting a poorly defined and vague goal like "continued success" is always doomed as internally we all tend to move the goals posts on ourselves and there is the little voice inside telling us we must do better. Enough is the key.x

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adrianjm
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Thank you George, I like your analogies. To be brutally honest, After having been at this game for many years, and hearing people tell me to 'print out charts and analyse' or backtest manually - noting ever entry/exit etc, I have never done it. Laziness I guess, which could point directly to the reason why I have not been successful.

I think I need to clear up my charts - lose some lines and squiggles and do as you say. Perhaps my 'Journaling', as Mike so often extols, should begin with the plan and execution of Analysis. Start at the beginning, as they say.

Thanks again for the excellend insights.

Adrian

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 VinceVirgil 
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George View Post
First and foremost you have to pick something that fits you, and by that youíd have to look at level of tolerance in terms of stops. Where is your pain threshold? How many minutes do you tolerate a trade going against you? How would you best take your gains? A fix target or a target based upon various factors? What fits you there? When are you most fitted to be trading? Morning, afternoon all day? How much do tolerate in terms of concentration? What do you have to do in order to get back your concentration?

This is a great list. But each question needs to be evaluated and tested before implimentation in a live setting. This could take quite a long time, and even at that, one may not be successful.

Anyway to shorten the process?

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 George 
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VinceVirgil View Post
This is a great list. But each question needs to be evaluated and tested before implimentation in a live setting. This could take quite a long time, and even at that, one may not be successful.

Anyway to shorten the process?


Why would you want to shorten the process?

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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 VinceVirgil 
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George View Post
Why would you want to shorten the process?

For the most efficient use of available time.

Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to make it roll better.

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  #73 (permalink)
 George 
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Mastery is achieved through repetition! If you'd shorten the process you'd miss the wheel totally and it will not roll at all. I'm sorry for that answer but I don't believe there are any shortcuts to any of this. And believe me I've been a great adept to shortcuts all of my life. All I can tell you about them today is that they're a waste of time because they always make you end up on the long road.

So do the work, and stay on the path even if it seems to be the longest and the hardest thing to do out there. But in time it will be better and better, easier and easier. All you need to do is to take the first step, and when you take the second just remember that you've already taken the first one and so on....


VinceVirgil View Post
For the most efficient use of available time.

Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to make it roll better.


We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #74 (permalink)
 josh 
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George View Post
Mastery is achieved through repetition! If you'd shorten the process you'd miss the wheel totally and it will not roll at all. I'm sorry for that answer but I don't believe there are any shortcuts to any of this. And believe me I've been a great adept to shortcuts all of my life. All I can tell you about them today is that they're a waste of time because they always make you end up on the long road.

So do the work, and stay on the path even if it seems to be the longest and the hardest thing to do out there. But in time it will be better and better, easier and easier. All you need to do is to take the first step, and when you take the second just remember that you've already taken the first one and so on....

Mastery is achieved through repetition of an activity with good habits and principles. As a very practical example, I have seen dancers who have been dancing for ten years who are much worse than dancers who have been dancing one or two years. Repetition is key, but repeating the exact same thing all the time is not an efficient usage of one's time. Repeating with an intention to improve is the type of repetition that is useful.

But generally, particularly with something that is not cut and dried like financial markets, I agree that people tend to look for shortcuts and wind up taking a longer time because of this. So I understand your point, which is mainly to put in the work and the time and don't be lazy.

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smusa700
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josh View Post
Mastery is achieved through repetition of an activity with good habits and principles. As a very practical example, I have seen dancers who have been dancing for ten years who are much worse than dancers who have been dancing one or two years. Repetition is key, but repeating the exact same thing all the time is not an efficient usage of one's time. Repeating with an intention to improve is the type of repetition that is useful.

But generally, particularly with something that is not cut and dried like financial markets, I agree that people tend to look for shortcuts and wind up taking a longer time because of this. So I understand your point, which is mainly to put in the work and the time and don't be lazy.

The will to win, the desire to succeed, the urge to reach your full potential... these are the keys that will unlock the door to mastery.
Confucius.

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Inol
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people nowadays want all quicker that's sad

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 crf88 
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very nice thread especially george's replies..In your original post 3 years ago you seem to believe a lot more in sedona method than in your last posts.Actually 3 years you seem to believe that you can delete your old bad 'picture' but nowdays you seem to believe that the right path is to create a new winning 'picture'.I would like to know what has changed your beliefs

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 George 
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crf88 View Post
very nice thread especially george's replies..In your original post 3 years ago you seem to believe a lot more in sedona method than in your last posts.Actually 3 years you seem to believe that you can delete your old bad 'picture' but nowdays you seem to believe that the right path is to create a new winning 'picture'.I would like to know what has changed your beliefs

crf,

I'm glad you like the thread and my replies. Great question by the way!
What can I tell you? Back then three years ago, I was on a path where for me it was very important to understand the why of things. The why of things and how come they are the way they are. On that quest I realized how the mind works and by realizing that I also realized how all the "junk" is affecting us. Hence I tried to take it a step further and give suggestions to how one could get rid of the junk. Sedona was one of the methods that I had stumbled upon and seemed to take this task to a higher level.

During the continuation on that path, I came to realize one more thing. I realized that even if we manage to get rid of all the "junk" it is not going to be enough in order to place us on the highest level on the trading scene. What we need eventually is to have the right (trading)skills and the right winning picture planted and amplified in our minds.

Maybe you're right, maybe I missed out on specifying the difference. So thank you for opening for a specification!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #79 (permalink)
 geronimo72 
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something great


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 lifeguardsteve88 
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something great


Thanks for the link. I agree with the premise. I also think that this is the reason that religion (any and all religions) have validity WHEN one has achieved understanding of it at a Higher level. Once one gets past the superficiality that differentiates the various religions, one begins to practice their religion in a way that follows and promotes this premise.

Cheers!

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 geronimo72 
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Hi ,

i picked up some vids just accidentally












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jamusued
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I would recommend Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas. Great book on trading psychology. A bit slow and redundant in the earlier chapters, but worth the read.

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 Guss 
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Well put and said George.
Thanks for sharing, I been through it, and totally agree with what you said 100%
Thanks again
Guss

George View Post
Al right guys itís time to sum it all up and go for the solutions to all this. Before I go on, please keep something in mind.
Thereís only one, and only one way to get disappointed in this life. And thatís when ones expectations arenít met.
Remember that talk about the Holy Grail and where it is?
You got it, it is right there, on the inside. Stop looking for it outside. The only thing is that, we have to uncover it first.


Have you ever wondered why, affirmations, confirmations, positive self talk, positive visualization, you name it, never works?
The market is full of all these techniques. Learn how to be positive, learn how to have discipline, learn how to be successful etc.etc.


Itís not working because of the program in our subconscious mind. If the program is negative, it doesnít matter how hard
you try to change it with your conscious mind. It wonít be persistent. Remember what you had in your conscious mind, the ďwill powerĒ?
And remember that it was temporary? Now you understand why it doesnít work. In order to change a habit one has to be persistent
for a period of at least 14 days. The only problem is that itís very difficult to follow a new habit, during such a long period because
youíre using your will power in that case. Plus that youíre going against yourself constantly. Youíre forcing yourself to go
against your program thatís running between 95-99% of your daily life with a conscious will power thatís temporary. Isnít life ironic?

But nevertheless, when you do understand this, youíve gained a huge awareness. For the first time youíll be able to look at yourself
from the outside. Youíve gained self distance. You start to understand why and how things work. That gives you a tremendous advantage.
And that is in case you want to change of course! If youíre content with your new findings, and you want to continue as a slave of your own program
and habits, then go on and live life as you did before. But if you want to make a change, then you have to get to the core.

In the last article I gave an example that explained how fear of success works. Normally it works like this.
An event that causes an emotion takes place, for i.e. whatever causes you to have that fear, or whatever causes you to engage the protective role of
your subconscious mind. Simultaneously two more things occur. The energy in that event is stored in your body and an association
is created in your brain. All this takes place in order to reward one thing, survival.

Since that event took place, and during every second of your life from back then till your present moment. Youíve had that process
(and all other processes, since their commencement) running constantly in the background.


In order to get rid of fear of success (or whatever change you need to make) you have to neutralize that stored energy. How in the whole world, will that be possible?
Time travel? Sorry guys, trying to be funny. Not working, right?

There are actually three ways that are working, and that I know of because Iíve been all over the place searching. You know, the usual stuff,
standing in front of the mirror, talking to myself ďyou are the worldís greatest trader; you can do this, bla, bla, blaÖ) Watching movies, like
ďThe SecretĒ, and feeling that itís speaking to me directly (by the way, great movie, I liked it, the only problem is that itís only giving you half of the equation).
Affirmations, visualization you name it. Itís not my point to criticize those techniques, itís just that it makes me mad, because theyíre hiding the other
part of the reality. Itís not possible to overlap a bad program. You have to get rid of the program first.

So here are the three techniques that work. All three helps you to get rid of the bad program in order to be able to put there whatever you wish, in order to
give you emotional freedom. Iíll explain shortly how they work and why they work.


1.EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique, EFT Home - World Center for EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques))

Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT) is an emotional, needle free version of acupuncture that is based on new discoveries
regarding the connection between your body's subtle energies, your emotions, and your health. EFT has been reported successful
in thousands of cases covering a huge range of emotional, health and performance issues.
Itís actually pretty easy to learn and to perform. Itís about putting your focus on an issue thatís bothering you and while you do
that tap on different spots on your face, upper body, arms and fingers. If you want details, youíll find them on their page,
specifically how and why it works.
Itís a great technique, if you can nail the issue. In other words, if youíre very aware of the event, that caused you problem,
or if you are persistent, youíll get great results. If the issue is more bothersome and hidden (my own experience tells me that, itís
better to seek a practitioner or to use the next method). But remember thatís my opinion, if you find the technique to be working
for you and it fits you, it can do wonderful things for you.



2.Hypnosis (Iíve studied hypnosis for this guy Ėa home study course-, and heís a living legend, -Gerald Kein
Omni Hypnosis Training - Onsite or Distance Learning Clinical Hypnotism Training
)

Usually, people are very judgmental about hypnosis, and their associationís runs directly to those stage hypnosis shows, or to mind control. Forget all of that.
Itís one of the most powerful ways to change your program. Iím not going to spend time defending it, and give you valid facts about it.
Instead, Iím going to tell you how it works, and tell you that it only work if you allow it to work. You can never, ever become hypnotized against your own will.

It actually works very simple. First we have the induction. Thatís a process that takes away your critical factor. In other words, it deactivates your
conscious mind, and youíll get access directly to your subconscious mind. When you are there, (itís actually like sending heat seeking missiles) you go
back to the event that caused the problem for the first time, and you neutralize it. By neutralizing the event, the energy dissolves and you are free.

So basically, hypnosis consists of two main parts, the induction and the hypnotic therapy session. During the induction, the subject is asked to relax. Itís being
constantly talked to by the hypnotist and led into a state of focused relaxation. The induction serves in order to send away the conscious mind
(the analytical and the rational mind), in order to get access to the subconscious mind, where everything is stored and still active. When you get there, then
youíre able to relive the event. By doing that youíre able to process it and to release it.

By reading my own words, Iím getting the impression of this might be a difficult process to grasp and to understand. If you by any chance are trying to
understand this method, it means that you have second thoughts about it and youíll be taking it to a very analytical and rational level. It simply wonít work then!

My recommendations are; if youíve come to an edge in your life, and youíve become aware of that impulse running in the background and sabotaging you on a
constant basis, AND youíre willing to get to the edge and jump no matter what. Then hypnosis will work for you!
Hypnosis can clear things in a couple of sessions (2-4, each being about 1,5h) that has bothered people for an entire life. It takes 4 sessions to free someone from alcoholism,
(you get the picture? it takes away the reason for it being practised, AA teaches people the discipline to keep themselves away from it instead. Unfortunately people are sceptical
about it and spend rather 20 years in classical psychotherapy instead of freeing themselves in a couple of sessions.

Remember, hypnosis is very, very powerful if you allow yourself to take that step. If you by any chance decide to try it out, please use that link, in order to
link yourself to someone recommended by Gerald Kein. Maybe you can call them and ask them for someone certified by them in your area.
There are a lot of bad hypnotherapists out there, so be sure to end up with a good one.


3.The Sedona Method (This is my favorite one, and Iím in the middle of learning it right now
Sedona Method (official site) The Secret self-help program; self-improvement technique
)

Itís a wonderful tool. Itís about letting go of things. Itís about releasing issues. Itís about becoming free. Basically, itís a very, very simple technique that teaches
you how to connect yourself to your feelings and how to free yourself from them. Remember the subconscious mind is the feeling mind. So youíre right on the spot again here,
because itís about reprogramming and uncovering.
The beauty of the Sedona Method is that, is very portable. You can put it in your mind, by learning it,
and you can use it whenever you need. You donít have to tap on spots, you donít need a hypnotherapist, and you can just bring it up in any situation needed. Plus that you can
benefit a lot from it in trading as well, by releasing all those negative emotions that you end up with from bad trades.



Basically all of them are very powerful tools. EFT, can very easily neutralize all those bad trades, you have behind you, by tapping on those spots.
Hypnosis can free you from all the junk, which prevents you from having the right perception and perspective while youíre trading. And the Sedona Method can help you
get rid of the stress thatís out there while youíre trading.


Some people collect stamps, some like to jog, and so on. Me myself, have been obsessed by these two words, ďwhyĒ and ďhowĒ. Since I got tired of losing and blowing
up my portfolios, and since that old friend of mine inflated his ego on my behalf. By the way, let us all send him a big Thank You! If it wasnít for him and him initiating me into
this business, I guess we wouldnít have met. So Thank You Ovidiu Ėhis name-!


By asking those two questions, why things work the way they work, and how do things work; Iíve come to gain all this knowledge that Iím sharing with you!
As you see, it has not so much to do with trading. In fact trading has not that much to do with anything. Trading is just trading, nothing else. It has all to do with you,
and the way you look at trading. In order to be able to look at trading, you have to get rid of all the filters that are holding you back from looking at trading the way you should be looking at it.

Iíve gained all this by asking why and how. What Iíve come to understand to this point is that ironically enough I have to learn how to let go of all this and get past all the
rational and analytical stuff because thatís where weíll be finding our own Holy Grail.


Iíve been through them all. I mean the methods and Iíve been wondering on those paths that took me here. What Iíve written and shared with you has been my reflections coloured
by my own journeys. Remember that every journey is unique, and has to be performed by the persons involved in them. Take my words, and this knowledge shared as guidance,
and go out there and make your own journey and find out what works for you!


Good luck and have a lot of fun, lifeís supposed to be fun to live!


THE END!


/George


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  #84 (permalink)
Slieber
St. Louis, Missouri, United States
 
 
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I'm new here, and everyone has awesome stuff to say and ideas to getting ones mind right (and different things work for different people).

Personally I have found everything that I needed in Napolean Hills Think and Grow Rich. Yeah, that is no surprise, but the truth is when reading it a few times, every single "secret" to changing the way your mind works is in there and applicable to anything in life.

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 George 
Sweden
 
Experience: Master
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It is time for me to breathe some new life into this old thread. When I finished the articles I wanted to throw out there a couple of methods that could lead to solutions.
I never went on exploring them further into writing mainly because they didnít help me reach the results I was aiming for.
Sure theyíre great methods, and I still believe in hypnosis made by a truly good hypnotist, and the other two can give temporarily releases.But Iíve found a new method
that has done some great and permanent changes to me. Because of that, and because it fits as a continuous part in this article series I wanted to share that with you guys.

The method is called the Emotion Code and it is based upon the same premises as everything else. It is based upon the fact that our experiences and our
interaction with the local environment leaves traces and has an impact on us. The result of that are these so called trapped emotions.
What are trapped emotions? Trapped emotions are trails of feelings we experience in negative situations that are left in our system and are triggered as soon as our mind
identifies a situation that reminds us of that particular event.


For instance, have you ever asked yourself what happens to you when you always give back all that money youíve made so fast and so easy? What really happens is that
your subconscious mind corrects the issue by helping you giving it back to the market. It simply corrects your particular situation
in order to match its programed belief. Letís put it this way in order to throw further light on it. Assume that your father told you when you were a child that money are
to be earned the hard way. Here we have to add that children are very adept to be seeking confirmation from our guides and teachers
because they are the ones that holds the key to our interaction with the local environment in which we strive to become a part of. So together with that statement from the
father comes a need of being confirmed. If we trust and believe that statement we are good kids, and good kids
that behave according to what their parents says get love as a reward.

Is the picture complete now? You make money fast and easy, but that also triggers the emotion connected to that. We all need that confirmation because itís a part of
our designed societal needs and fast money is simply not a match for you (because in your subconscious mind
you still need that confirmation that will get you the reward in terms of affection) hence you give them back! Thatís where the Emotion Code enters into the picture.
It has a built in method that enables it to get feedback from the subconscious mind
making us able to aim for those feelings that are trapped and release them. When theyíve become released that need for confirmation/affection and we get to keep our money
because the subconscious mind is not active in that sense anymore and will not ďwork against usĒ.


Now, will the Emotion Code make us better traders? Yes and no! It is very important to emphasize that trading in itself has very much to do with mastering all the bits
and pieces in the whole trading package, from administration of your trades to your risk management etc. But one thing is for sure, it will
do wonders on the emotional part that is a huge part of trading. With a mastery of everything else in trading that can serve as the dot over the I in many instances.
But please do remember this, all the other puzzle pieces has to be mastered in order to make it all the way in trading.
If we are not doing that it is as if we put an athlete through a form of mind programing but we expect him/her to win without the proper training, systematic approach to wining,
diet, the proper mindset etc. etc. That is impossible right? So keep that in mind please!



What has the Emotion Code done for me? First and foremost it has had a huge impact on my mood. I have let go of an enormous deal of frustration and I have become
a very calm and patient person. It is like I have a sort of built in breaks now that are getting activated as soon as I get frustrated.
Even if I get mad (after all I am human being), my path to calmness has become greatly shortened. And it is not as if I get frustrated and then the thought
comes in telling me I am changed. No, it comes automatically, and it is due to the fact that those emotions
that were triggering that part of my brain/mind are released. My family is the biggest witness to these changes, and theyíre the ones that can truly testify to that because
theyíre the ones that are noticing the change mostly. For me things have become normal this way!

Iíve also got rid of this pollen allergy that has been bothering me for about 15 years. And that wasnít even on my list of things that I wanted to work with. You see, thoughts and
feelings are energy and energy gets stored into our organs. When you free the body from those negative emotions you actually free the organs from that stored energy,
therefore theyíre allowed to regenerate themselves in the proper way leading to recovery.

Oh, Iíve been through a couple of things/methods through the years, among other those 3 Iíve suggested before. The impact from those were temporary and not lasting
at least in my case. I started this work back in April and the changes are still here today, so I can testify to the part where the changes are there to stay!
Iím throwing this out there with myself exposed primarily because I owe it to this community constructed by Big Mike which intentions are to be continually applauded and second
it truly is something that has helped me a lot and I want to share it with my fellow traders that also can benefit from it.


There are a lot of practitioners out there. There might be one in your area or not. Sessions can be done either in person or by phone/Skype. I live in Sweden and I had sessions
over Skype in USA. When I decided to take the step and to employ a practitioner I started by comparing them all in terms
of experience and the value you get for your money. After choosing a couple of them I sent out emails to see what kind of response Iíd get. Some of them contacted me days later,
some didnít contact me at all etc. etc. Iím not gone get into particular reasons of why that happened and so on.
But there was this lady that contacted me very shortly after Iíve sent the emails telling me that she wasnít able to answer my questions right away, but that she wanted to
work with me and that sheíll contact me as soon as sheís able to. And so she did not long after that.


What really made me chose her was that she showed me from the beginning that she cared. Together with that she offered (and still does) most value for the money!
The rest is history and the changes are as Iíve told you above.
Her name is Jill Jolley and she lives in Arizona In case anyone wants to contact her. Here is a link to her webpage: LIGHTBORN SERVICES - Home You can always refer to me (@George)
or to (Big Mike trading) in order to show that you have a traderís background.

PS: Here comes a link to an interview with Dr. Bradley Nelson : the founder of the method. It starts at about 0:04:00. Enjoy!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #86 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
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Broker: Ninjatrader
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Thank you George for your continuous updates and sharing your thoughts and experience in this forum.
I have already started the Emotion Code with Jill based on George recommendation in Private, and I am looking forward for the results in the next few weeks.
I will update you with any feedback regardng the emotional code results.

As always George, very well put.
Thank you again for sharing and helping other traders including myself to find a method to over come some of the psychological trading issues, after all trading is 90% psychology and mindset, and one has to be aware of his emotions specialty the negative trapped emotions.
One has to always be aware of his emotions at all time while trading and journal his feelings and where those feeling are coming from(fear Greed, Revenge,anger,being wrong...etc) and to be disciplined enough to stop trading once he is aware of his negative emotion, which will save him tons of money on the long run.

Thanks again

Talk to you soon



George View Post
It is time for me to breathe some new life into this old thread. When I finished the articles I wanted to throw out there a couple of methods that could lead to solutions.
I never went on exploring them further into writing mainly because they didnít help me reach the results I was aiming for.
Sure theyíre great methods, and I still believe in hypnosis made by a truly good hypnotist, and the other two can give temporarily releases.But Iíve found a new method
that has done some great and permanent changes to me. Because of that, and because it fits as a continuous part in this article series I wanted to share that with you guys.

The method is called the Emotion Code and it is based upon the same premises as everything else. It is based upon the fact that our experiences and our
interaction with the local environment leaves traces and has an impact on us. The result of that are these so called trapped emotions.
What are trapped emotions? Trapped emotions are trails of feelings we experience in negative situations that are left in our system and are triggered as soon as our mind
identifies a situation that reminds us of that particular event.


For instance, have you ever asked yourself what happens to you when you always give back all that money youíve made so fast and so easy? What really happens is that
your subconscious mind corrects the issue by helping you giving it back to the market. It simply corrects your particular situation
in order to match its programed belief. Letís put it this way in order to throw further light on it. Assume that your father told you when you were a child that money are
to be earned the hard way. Here we have to add that children are very adept to be seeking confirmation from our guides and teachers
because they are the ones that holds the key to our interaction with the local environment in which we strive to become a part of. So together with that statement from the
father comes a need of being confirmed. If we trust and believe that statement we are good kids, and good kids
that behave according to what their parents says get love as a reward.

Is the picture complete now? You make money fast and easy, but that also triggers the emotion connected to that. We all need that confirmation because itís a part of
our designed societal needs and fast money is simply not a match for you (because in your subconscious mind
you still need that confirmation that will get you the reward in terms of affection) hence you give them back! Thatís where the Emotion Code enters into the picture.
It has a built in method that enables it to get feedback from the subconscious mind
making us able to aim for those feelings that are trapped and release them. When theyíve become released that need for confirmation/affection and we get to keep our money
because the subconscious mind is not active in that sense anymore and will not ďwork against usĒ.


Now, will the Emotion Code make us better traders? Yes and no! It is very important to emphasize that trading in itself has very much to do with mastering all the bits
and pieces in the whole trading package, from administration of your trades to your risk management etc. But one thing is for sure, it will
do wonders on the emotional part that is a huge part of trading. With a mastery of everything else in trading that can serve as the dot over the I in many instances.
But please do remember this, all the other puzzle pieces has to be mastered in order to make it all the way in trading.
If we are not doing that it is as if we put an athlete through a form of mind programing but we expect him/her to win without the proper training, systematic approach to wining,
diet, the proper mindset etc. etc. That is impossible right? So keep that in mind please!



What has the Emotion Code done for me? First and foremost it has had a huge impact on my mood. I have let go of an enormous deal of frustration and I have become
a very calm and patient person. It is like I have a sort of built in breaks now that are getting activated as soon as I get frustrated.
Even if I get mad (after all I am human being), my path to calmness has become greatly shortened. And it is not as if I get frustrated and then the thought
comes in telling me I am changed. No, it comes automatically, and it is due to the fact that those emotions
that were triggering that part of my brain/mind are released. My family is the biggest witness to these changes, and theyíre the ones that can truly testify to that because
theyíre the ones that are noticing the change mostly. For me things have become normal this way!

Iíve also got rid of this pollen allergy that has been bothering me for about 15 years. And that wasnít even on my list of things that I wanted to work with. You see, thoughts and
feelings are energy and energy gets stored into our organs. When you free the body from those negative emotions you actually free the organs from that stored energy,
therefore theyíre allowed to regenerate themselves in the proper way leading to recovery.

Oh, Iíve been through a couple of things/methods through the years, among other those 3 Iíve suggested before. The impact from those were temporary and not lasting
at least in my case. I started this work back in April and the changes are still here today, so I can testify to the part where the changes are there to stay!
Iím throwing this out there with myself exposed primarily because I owe it to this community constructed by Big Mike which intentions are to be continually applauded and second
it truly is something that has helped me a lot and I want to share it with my fellow traders that also can benefit from it.


There are a lot of practitioners out there. There might be one in your area or not. Sessions can be done either in person or by phone/Skype. I live in Sweden and I had sessions
over Skype in USA. When I decided to take the step and to employ a practitioner I started by comparing them all in terms
of experience and the value you get for your money. After choosing a couple of them I sent out emails to see what kind of response Iíd get. Some of them contacted me days later,
some didnít contact me at all etc. etc. Iím not gone get into particular reasons of why that happened and so on.
But there was this lady that contacted me very shortly after Iíve sent the emails telling me that she wasnít able to answer my questions right away, but that she wanted to
work with me and that sheíll contact me as soon as sheís able to. And so she did not long after that.


What really made me chose her was that she showed me from the beginning that she cared. Together with that she offered (and still does) most value for the money!
The rest is history and the changes are as Iíve told you above.
Her name is Jill Jolley and she lives in Arizona In case anyone wants to contact her. Here is a link to her webpage: LIGHTBORN SERVICES - Home You can always refer to me (@George)
or to (Big Mike trading) in order to show that you have a traderís background.

PS: Here comes a link to an interview with Dr. Bradley Nelson : the founder of the method. It starts at about 0:04:00. Enjoy!


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  #87 (permalink)
j4872
San Diego + California/USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2014
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Guss View Post
Thank you George for your continuous updates and sharing your thoughts and experience in this forum.
I have already started the Emotion Code with Jill based on George recommendation in Private, and I am looking forward for the results in the next few weeks.
I will update you with any feedback regardng the emotional code results.

As always George, very well put.
Thank you again for sharing and helping other traders including myself to find a method to over come some of the psychological trading issues, after all trading is 90% psychology and mindset, and one has to be aware of his emotions specialty the negative trapped emotions.
One has to always be aware of his emotions at all time while trading and journal his feelings and where those feeling are coming from(fear Greed, Revenge,anger,being wrong...etc) and to be disciplined enough to stop trading once he is aware of his negative emotion, which will save him tons of money on the long run.

Thanks again

Talk to you soon


Guss

Would you care to share your experiences with Jill and the emotion code results

Thanks
Judge

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  #88 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
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j4872 View Post
Guss

Would you care to share your experiences with Jill and the emotion code results

Thanks
Judge

Hi Judge,

I did get some results from the emotion code, but wasn't enough for me.
I managed to find a more powerful tool, where I ended up becoming a fastereft(emotional focused transformation) certified practitioner myself. which is a very powerful combination of tools consists of (EFT,NLP...etc). it works on your belief system, and transforms the past negative experiences and releases the emotions and heals you from the inside out.
The results are amazing, it did transform me inside out, and I continue to use it and help others as well to overcome their challenges in different aspects of their life's including trading.

Hope this helps.

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j4872
San Diego + California/USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2014
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Guss

Thank you for the input....glad it is working out and you have become a practitioner.

Thank you

Judge

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  #90 (permalink)
 mbhsi 
Colorado Springs
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 9 since Apr 2011
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Like so many other traders, I struggle with my emotional state when trading. I reached out to Guss to see if he would be willing to work with me, utilizing what he learned through Faster EFT.

I spent time with Guss on skype and he led me through some Faster EFT exercises that helped me to clear up some emotional baggage I was carrying. I still utilize Faster EFT from time to time, to address issues that come up in my daily life.

Shortly after working with Guss, I stopped trading because I got a job, so I can't say that the Faster EFT methods pushed me over the learning curve of controlling my emotions while trading. But I do feel that the method would be helpful to any trader who is wrestling to reach the 'zone' in their trading. I hope to be able to return to trading one day and believe that Faster EFT will be a very helpful tool for me in my pursuit of becoming a successful trader one day.

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  #91 (permalink)
traderich
vienna + vienna/austria
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2014
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Having been trading professionally for nearly 10 years now, I can tell you that however good your are psychologically/mentally without a statistical edge (competitive edge...whatever you want to call it) all the mental work isn't going to be enough.

So try to first develop a trading edge and THEN work on proper execution.

Just my 2 cents.

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  #92 (permalink)
 Guss 
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traderich View Post
Having been trading professionally for nearly 10 years now, I can tell you that however good your are psychologically/mentally without a statistical edge (competitive edge...whatever you want to call it) all the mental work isn't going to be enough.

So try to first develop a trading edge and THEN work on proper execution.

Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree, but its a catch 22
Lacking the right mindset, will affect your progress in finding that statistical edge and figuring out your mistakes, cause you are operating/trading out of fear and emotions(high Beta state of mind) based on old patterns triggering within your subconscious mind(which most of the time have nothing to do with trading).
once you clear you mind from all the psychological emotional baggage and have peace with those past subconscious emotional triggers/memories, then you can see and think clearly, and start working on developing the right system with high probability setups, and sticking to your rules.
As long as you are unaware of your deeper emotional driving force behind your actions, the mind will always play ticks on you each time your emotions gets triggered subconsciously, and it makes it harder to stick to your own system and rules.

Just my 2 cents

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  #93 (permalink)
Turveyd
Birmingham UK
 
 
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It be tough, my conscious brain generally gets it right, but my sub conscious gets in the way and says, no don't take that trade and won't let me push the button then it'll force me into taking a stupid counter method trade which as my method is good is generally going to cost me.

It's ODD for sure, it's what I've been battling against for years, it's getting better, but it's still there and it's annoying as I'm generally a logical un emotional man basically.

But I guess it's stopped me being rich and driving a ferrari and living somewhere nice, so it's all good

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  #94 (permalink)
 iqgod 
Market Wizard
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Advanced
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We come to trading with hopes of quick bucks, an overflowing picture and go through the stages of a trader - the struggle for profitability lasts for more time than we ever anticipated.

After going through the first three stages (mystification stage, hot pot stage, cynical skepticism stage) the trader has truly come far - the fourth stage called the squiggle trader stage. You study so hard and stack so much onto your decisions that you become paralyzed. This is all characteristic of scared money. Without a genuine acceptance of the fact of loss and of the risks involved in trading, you flit around like a butterfly from decision to decision, strategy to strategy, method to method and market to market.

Sadly the vast majority of traders never leave this stage. They spend their ďcareersĒ searching for the answer, and even though they may eventually achieve piddling profits, they never become truly successful.

It is at this point that answers are needed, hand-holding is needed. Only then can he open his eyes to stages five and six, namely the inwardly-bound stage and the final mastery stage.

Now the trader is BLOCKED, and he is disturbed. He is ambitious, but he sees random others moving ahead and despairs in turmoil.

How can he be free of this confusion? How can he be confident in his method, actually take the entry and exit when he knows it is time?

The answer is simple. Confusion exists only when there is the Fact plus what the trader thinks of the Fact. He has an opinion of the Fact, an evaluation, or sometimes a disregard of it. If he can only look at the Fact without adding so much color then there would be no confusion.

If the trader recognizes that now the market is in so and so phase and the probability lies heavily towards, say, long (or short, or flat, whatever) then there is no confusion.

Confusion arises only when the trader insists that the road leads somewhere else, i.e. he knows that conditions are ripe for a long yet he freezes and hesitates and then misses entering a trade. Then perhaps he realizes his folly and disregards the Fact that the market has broken out and is almost about to reach his earlier target when he goes long, at the fag end of the trend, paying for the consequences.

Thus his opinions, beliefs, ambitions and desires are rolled into such a strong ball of wool that he weaves his own fantasy wen and is incapable of looking at the Fact. So Fact + judgement + evaluation + ambition = confusion. If he is confused, can he act? Any action born out of confusion leads to further confusion.

Being confused, and to acknowledge that one is confused requires a simple clarity of thought i.e. clear perception. Thus we do not fail to act because we have no courage - far from it - but we fail to act because we do not have clarity of perception.

Thus, we need to be aware of our confusion, and know the cause of that confusion and not act. A confused mind that acts produces further turmoil. But a mind that is aware of the process of confusion understands that it need not act because the clarity is the action once the mind realizes the process.

It is difficult for all of us to understand because we have become habitual to doing, acting... but once the awareness of the mind becomes like a blade then it effortlessly produces action out of the confusion. This is the inwardly bound state that leads to the 'zen' like execution of a trade, effortlessly, intuitively.

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  #95 (permalink)
 Dervakon 
Montreal, Quebec Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Trading: CL
 
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Hi All,

I would like to make a comment about FasterEFT, I decide to try it because I try other thing who work so so. To be honest, the FasterEFT solve so issue on my psychology side slowly. I got the help of @Guss who help me to solve some problem.

I start to see some improvement on my trading but I need to continue to work on me. I think it a mix of working on your self and have somebody who can point out some issue that you never this way

I'm not where I would like to be but some issue are gone I'm grateful to @Guss who help me to clean some issue

Good luck to all

When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be successful
-Eric Thomas
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 Guss 
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Dervakon View Post
Hi All,

I would like to make a comment about FasterEFT, I decide to try it because I try other thing who work so so. To be honest, the FasterEFT solve so issue on my psychology side slowly. I got the help of @Guss who help me to solve some problem.

I start to see some improvement on my trading but I need to continue to work on me. I think it a mix of working on your self and have somebody who can point out some issue that you never this way

I'm not where I would like to be but some issue are gone I'm grateful to @Guss who help me to clean some issue

Good luck to all

Dervakon,

Thanks for your message.
I am so glad I was able to help with your challenges. There is no magic pill or method that resolves the trading emotional/psychological conflicts 100% in trading. It is a process and a journey where a trader has to work hard and put the effort to change his/her bad habits and get rid of the emotional baggage and triggers that are carried within him/her over the years from past emotional experiences. Usually those issues have nothing to do with trading, it more based on our belief system and the way we deal with our emotions and discomfort. once we know the driving force behind our actions then working on those emotions becomes easier. That's what FasterEft is all about.
As trading brings our the worst in us, our job as traders is to stay aware of our feelings, and emotions, and use the right tools to keep us in the right mindset in order to master our game.
Keep in mind, fixing the psychological aspect alone doesn't make one a profitable trader without the experience,discipline and the edge of a profitable trading system.

Thanks again, and wishing you all the best in your journey.
Keep up the good work

Regards,
Guss

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 RichardHK 
Hong Kong
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: IB/Kinetick
Trading: ES
 
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Turveyd View Post
... ...But I guess it's stopped me being rich and driving a ferrari and living somewhere nice, so it's all good

Hi Turveyd,

Your own quote seems to highlight your issue I believe. You have subconscious limiting beliefs that effectively DO stop you from being rich. I had same problem too! All based on childhood experiences programming much of my adult behavior.

That is definitely NOT 'all good'. Some rich people are jerks, just like anyone else. But if you are good and rich, you can help many others.

And interesting to see the search for the Holy Grail is still very much alive in this thread. Human nature.

Richard
Hong Kong
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GlobalTrader
Long Beach , LA
 
 
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Having made a few mistakes over the yrs the compounding affect has created a fear of loss that I need to deal with . More study etc

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 Sam21 
Helsinki, Finland
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
 
Posts: 97 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 297 given, 93 received

Hi George,
the link to the healer does not work anymore. It sends me to a site where I can make my own website.


Is anyone who have experience with Emotion Code available for a quick chat?

I'm halfway through The Emotion Code book by Dr Nelson, and I'd love to talk with others that have read and are more experienced. I've read 210 pages today and I will read the rest on Monday.

I don't fully understand it yet although I love the idea and want to experience the healing both as a healer and a patient.

-Sam

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jgomez74
Chihuahua, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 33 since Dec 2011
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Well I tried a few session. It did not work for me.

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futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)


Last Updated on September 20, 2019


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